<!--quoteo(post=1667210:date=Jan 12 2008, 05:26 PM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fluid Core @ Jan 12 2008, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->About crashing into walls/marines and taking damage/dieing... It would depend on the speed you travel. Imagine a huge room, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" /> soaring the sky, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> walks unsuspecting above. You start the dive, wrapping the wings close to your body as you gain speed glideing towards the marine. BAM, straight into hes head, KO. Ok, you probably would have to fly really fast to kill yourself, but wouldn't it be a worth sacrefise to take out that HA with a single suicide mission?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ive spottet a new secondary attack. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" /> maybe as sec. for the bite?
but it would be better when you do no damage when you hit a marine right this fall-damage-go-to-that-guy-on-there-you-jump is implemented in dark messiah (source game)
ok to my idea
EDIT: sorry, look at harimaus post at the 3. site its the same. i have only not look well
Asmodee and I were discussing lerk lift the other day, I brought it up to him in the form of a question because I've spent too much time around Katana.
In essense, we came to the conclusion that a focus skulk with sof lerk was at least worth playtesting, that it isn't *necessarily* unbalanced, although certain parties leant in that direction more than others.
In any case, we both agreed that if it were implemented *at all* it should be limited to skulks and gorges, and possibly that gorge attacks should be disabled while being carried. This last bit doesn't make sense, but I think it's the only feasible way to balance it without a *lot* of workarounds involved.
EDIT: Remember, if this hasn't been mentioned already, that your grandma's lerk lift had pancaking lerks, which was insanely unbalanced, but that this system has the new flight cap, which makes it markedly more nerfed, and thus in my opinion, opens it up to more playtesting.
I'm reminded of sonic and tails, in Sonic and Knuckles 2
and I swear, darktimes' "idea" is exactly the same as the one <b>I just said</b>. Mine was, I hope, more detailed and more easily understood. But, apart from that minor irritation, I'll just read it as.. that he agrees with me. More support for the idea.
Indeed. I was just annoyed because it seemed like you hadn't read my post at all?
Personally I'd like to see the lerk have more of an offensive role, or even a scouting role, especially if we get to have this increase in mobility. When I think 'support' it gives me the feeling that you're 'bound' to a location or another player or something. But the lerk can fly, and when I think 'fly' I think 'freedom'.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> maybe have you posted as i have still write
i have only read over spike and i know that vent-camping a big problem at some maps is . (but i mean one granade and the problem is solved)
in other hand spikes make the differences from the other aliens bigger now have all a melee attack (eccept gorge) and the gorge spit and the 4.rt hive fade acid is useless i think toned down spikes (10 damage 2 spikes per second would make the game more interresting spikes can be used to attack rambos and weak the armor from marines for other aliens
and a question: do the devs or guys still look in the suggest forum from NS1 future versions? plz dont forgott these forums at lerk i have some good reasons and a few post from me
PS: on the mapper , i know that ns is small room and corridor fighting but can you make 2,3 big high rooms, like the hangar in a combat map (what was the name?, i forgott)
Be interesting if for the lerk looping and air maneuvers that you could use a joystick for lerks as a mouse alternate/supplement... say as you move and fly around with the joystick with or without the help of a keyboard, and use the mouse to manage things like your popup menu and such... I'd think it'd help handle the problem of problematic controls...
Also a thumbs way up for surface grappling for lerks... very promising concept..
Maybe: 1. make lerkspike a default ability for lerks rather than a modification... 2. include a ability where lerks can spray/spit an adhesive substance to slow marines down... and possibly allow that substance for objects to stick to it.. 3. allow lerks to pick up objects like boxes and such, to drop on marines.. 4. allow lerks to pick up an item like a biological bomb (say a gorge makes a transportable bilebomb, but larger) and drop it on marines and their structures. Same with an acidic sort of bomb. 5. allow lerks to spray adhesive on marines, disorenting them and jamming weapons...
Just a few Ideas of mine.. don't know what they're worth.
The only thing that should be changed for lerks IMO, is their speed. I stopped using lerks completely when the 'glide-fall' mechanic was implemented as lerks completely lost the maneuverability and speed they once had. I don't like swooping into marines at the speed of a parachuter.
They went from viable fast-paced scout to slow weak and useless, which royally ######ed it up.
And for the record, adding all the fancy zomg-axis' to the lerk flight would ruin it as it would become too hard to use. Sure it would be nice, but things that look good don't always play well. I can see a lot of frustration coming out of it if it were implemented.
<!--quoteo(post=1667231:date=Jan 12 2008, 02:00 PM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 12 2008, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667231"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->complete random ramble about 'strafe-flying'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When have you ever seen a hefty sized bird or a bat 'strafe' left or right in the air?
<!--quoteo(post=1667354:date=Jan 14 2008, 05:58 AM:name=naggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naggy @ Jan 14 2008, 05:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When have you ever seen a hefty sized bird or a bat 'strafe' left or right in the air?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i do agree whit the speed but i dont think that we all need to be done "realistic" i can imigine that movements what needed to do this
i have allways say about atmoshere not reallistic and ,why need the karhaa to be like a earth creature? they envoled others as humans or cats or birds
there are tausends posibilities and the devs have say that its few jears ago from NS1 NS1 was only the first encounter i think that the karhaa have improve theyself and marines have reserarch better equipment (see phase suit thread)
why should the lerk have this weakness only to fly straigt forward?
again i have enought fantasie to imageinate this movement its fit in the nature its only not there becouse its not needed on earth but that dont need to fit on other planets
sorry, a long post, i cant stop when i have start writing
<!--quoteo(post=1667354:date=Jan 13 2008, 11:58 PM:name=naggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naggy @ Jan 13 2008, 11:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When have you ever seen a hefty sized bird or a bat 'strafe' left or right in the air?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look carefully, the bats 'strafe' left and right, it looks like they pull tight turns when they do it combined with their forward momentum:
Edit: Thanks for the head up Harimau, youtube imbed removed.
Does that help answer your question on how Lerk flight could improve? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I think that, if this was put in, coupled with a more substantial spike ability, (and someone mods the following idea in) we could have some considerably elaborate lerk dog-fights <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
to see it you need to copy the url and look it directly at youtube (to find the url go in the menu)
but i dont mean this type of strafe fly
i have found this game in a youtube coment and i have play it the dragon movement is not the same like my suggest but familiar whit it (Suggest you need to flapp) HERE can you download the full game
Nah, that's okay. Like I said though, it's all about 'lift'.
In addition to CaWolf's videos, give this a read: <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dn11806-lifting-the-fog-on-bat-flight.html" target="_blank">Lifting the fog on bat flight</a> It's pretty interesting, and quite short. Something that stood out for me though: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This could explain why bats are so good at navigating tight turns. "Bats are very agile. They can make a U-turn almost instantly at high speeds," says Hedenstrom.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Bats are agile hunters, capable of plotting and executing complex manoeuvres through <b>cluttered environments</b>,"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I don't mean 'strafe' as in moving swiftly left and right, i mean 'strafe' as in "I hold A key and my flying creature slides to the left" (think helicopter). Thats what it sounds like darktimes is trying to say.
And as far as i know, that is impossible for any hefty flying creature to do, because the creature must maintain speed to keep the air under its wings to keep it airborne.
hefty meaning large? jets can do it. though they aren't 'creatures' but the lerk isn't an earth-born creature anyway, so... but yes, obviously, as you've pointed out, they'd need quite a bit of speed to generate enough "lift" to create that "strafing" effect. the wing positioning/structure would have to be very efficient. can flapping contribute? anyway i don't think we're saying that, from rest, you'd be able to 'strafe' directly left in mid-air (like a helicopter). it'd be dependent on your forward movement.
if that's how lerk flight currently is, we're still really extending that idea. view rotation, for example. or unlimited gliding. barrel-rolling the right-way-up. or flapping in the direction you press (most notably, flapping backwards to slow or stop your forward movement), or flapping straight up if you're not pressing any directional key.
sorry, but that make no sense to me i cant imageinate this animation or movement
(thanks for the copper i feel it that i forgott something) play drakan guys, there is the animation and the lerk have some "airballons" whit self produced helium (read some dragon books, i good one is the dragonprinz trielogie) that give him a boost when flying
that would him enable to strafe-fly
we dont need to be realistic we need to think whats the best for the lerk to improve him
Comments
ive spottet a new secondary attack. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />
maybe as sec. for the bite?
but it would be better when you do no damage when you hit a marine right
this fall-damage-go-to-that-guy-on-there-you-jump is implemented in
dark messiah (source game)
ok to my idea
EDIT: sorry, look at harimaus post at the 3. site
its the same. i have only not look well
In essense, we came to the conclusion that a focus skulk with sof lerk was at least worth playtesting, that it isn't *necessarily* unbalanced, although certain parties leant in that direction more than others.
In any case, we both agreed that if it were implemented *at all* it should be limited to skulks and gorges, and possibly that gorge attacks should be disabled while being carried. This last bit doesn't make sense, but I think it's the only feasible way to balance it without a *lot* of workarounds involved.
EDIT: Remember, if this hasn't been mentioned already, that your grandma's lerk lift had pancaking lerks, which was insanely unbalanced, but that this system has the new flight cap, which makes it markedly more nerfed, and thus in my opinion, opens it up to more playtesting.
and I swear, darktimes' "idea" is exactly the same as the one <b>I just said</b>. Mine was, I hope, more detailed and more easily understood.
But, apart from that minor irritation, I'll just read it as.. that he agrees with me. More support for the idea.
the idea itself is important
we both have the same idea
i called it strafe-fly
i hope more peaple agree whit that idea
Personally I'd like to see the lerk have more of an offensive role, or even a scouting role, especially if we get to have this increase in mobility.
When I think 'support' it gives me the feeling that you're 'bound' to a location or another player or something. But the lerk can fly, and when I think 'fly' I think 'freedom'.
whatever, now is now
hmm..
...
..
.
<b>GIVE LERKS SPIKES BACK</b>
(but decrease its strength)
i have only read over spike
and i know that vent-camping
a big problem at some maps is . (but i mean one granade and the problem is solved)
in other hand spikes make the differences from the other aliens bigger
now have all a melee attack (eccept gorge)
and the gorge spit and the 4.rt hive fade acid
is useless
i think toned down spikes (10 damage 2 spikes per second
would make the game more interresting
spikes can be used to attack rambos
and weak the armor from marines
for other aliens
and a question:
do the devs or guys still look in the suggest forum from NS1 future versions? plz dont forgott these forums
at lerk i have some good reasons and a few post from me
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showforum=51" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...hp?showforum=51</a>
PS: on the mapper , i know that ns is small room and corridor fighting
but can you make 2,3 big high rooms, like the hangar in a combat map (what was the name?, i forgott)
Also a thumbs way up for surface grappling for lerks... very promising concept..
Maybe:
1. make lerkspike a default ability for lerks rather than a modification...
2. include a ability where lerks can spray/spit an adhesive substance to slow marines down... and possibly allow that substance for objects to stick to it..
3. allow lerks to pick up objects like boxes and such, to drop on marines..
4. allow lerks to pick up an item like a biological bomb (say a gorge makes a transportable bilebomb, but larger) and drop it on marines and their structures. Same with an acidic sort of bomb.
5. allow lerks to spray adhesive on marines, disorenting them and jamming weapons...
Just a few Ideas of mine.. don't know what they're worth.
They went from viable fast-paced scout to slow weak and useless, which royally ######ed it up.
And for the record, adding all the fancy zomg-axis' to the lerk flight would ruin it as it would become too hard to use.
Sure it would be nice, but things that look good don't always play well. I can see a lot of frustration coming out of it if it were implemented.
<!--quoteo(post=1667231:date=Jan 12 2008, 02:00 PM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 12 2008, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667231"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->complete random ramble about 'strafe-flying'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When have you ever seen a hefty sized bird or a bat 'strafe' left or right in the air?
i do agree whit the speed
but i dont think that we all need to be done "realistic"
i can imigine that movements what needed to do this
i have allways say about atmoshere not reallistic
and ,why need the karhaa to be like a earth creature?
they envoled others as humans or cats or birds
there are tausends posibilities
and the devs have say that its few jears ago from NS1
NS1 was only the first encounter
i think that the karhaa have improve theyself
and marines have reserarch better equipment (see phase suit thread)
why should the lerk have this weakness
only to fly straigt forward?
again i have enought fantasie to imageinate this movement
its fit in the nature
its only not there becouse its not needed on earth
but that dont need to fit on other planets
sorry, a long post, i cant stop when i have start writing
Look carefully, the bats 'strafe' left and right, it looks like they pull tight turns when they do it combined with their forward momentum:
Edit: Thanks for the head up Harimau, youtube imbed removed.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DRsvuS5Tcoc"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DRsvuS5Tcoc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Hanging upside down and taking off:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MuwirAsW0YY"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MuwirAsW0YY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Does that help answer your question on how Lerk flight could improve? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Btw, first video says no longer available.
I think that, if this was put in, coupled with a more substantial spike ability, (and someone mods the following idea in) we could have some considerably elaborate lerk dog-fights <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
skulk racing? lerk dog-fighting? perfect companions.
and look it directly at youtube
(to find the url go in the menu)
but i dont mean this type of strafe fly
i have found this game in a youtube coment
and i have play it
the dragon movement is not the same like my suggest but
familiar whit it (Suggest you need to flapp)
HERE can you download the full game
<a href="http://www.drakan.co.nr/" target="_blank">http://www.drakan.co.nr/</a>
you need to play the 3 level to start flying
Like I said though, it's all about 'lift'.
In addition to CaWolf's videos, give this a read: <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dn11806-lifting-the-fog-on-bat-flight.html" target="_blank">Lifting the fog on bat flight</a>
It's pretty interesting, and quite short.
Something that stood out for me though:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This could explain why bats are so good at navigating tight turns. "Bats are very agile. They can make a U-turn almost instantly at high speeds," says Hedenstrom.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Bats are agile hunters, capable of plotting and executing complex manoeuvres through <b>cluttered environments</b>,"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
And as far as i know, that is impossible for any hefty flying creature to do, because the creature must maintain speed to keep the air under its wings to keep it airborne.
Which is basically how lerk flight currently is.
though they aren't 'creatures' but the lerk isn't an earth-born creature anyway, so...
but yes, obviously, as you've pointed out, they'd need quite a bit of speed to generate enough "lift" to create that "strafing" effect. the wing positioning/structure would have to be very efficient. can flapping contribute?
anyway i don't think we're saying that, from rest, you'd be able to 'strafe' directly left in mid-air (like a helicopter). it'd be dependent on your forward movement.
if that's how lerk flight currently is, we're still really extending that idea.
view rotation, for example. or unlimited gliding. barrel-rolling the right-way-up.
or flapping in the direction you press (most notably, flapping backwards to slow or stop your forward movement), or flapping straight up if you're not pressing any directional key.
i cant imageinate this animation or movement
(thanks for the copper i feel it that i forgott something)
play drakan guys, there is the animation
and the lerk have some "airballons" whit self produced helium (read some dragon books, i good one is the dragonprinz trielogie)
that give him a boost when flying
that would him enable to strafe-fly
we dont need to be realistic
we need to think whats the best for the lerk
to improve him