NS2 Handgun ideas

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Comments

  • BuzzouBuzzou Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1664232:date=Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why have a scope for your secondary mode of fire on your lmg when you could use that secondary attack for something much cooler? Like a grenade launcher?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    because that would be rediculously overpowered. you already have hand grenades as a cheap early upgrade, as well as the current grenade launcher that seems to fill the role quite nicely.

    <!--quoteo(post=1664232:date=Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Zooming in in ns? A game that tries to emphasize movement?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    people dont pistol snipe vents while running. they stop, let off a few rounds, then move on. zooming wouldnt change this.

    <!--quoteo(post=1664233:date=Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because you shoot both from the hip.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    no you dont. have a look next time you play, or just check the screenshots in the NS1 site. both the LMG and HMG are shot from shoulder height.

    <!--quoteo(post=1664233:date=Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because pellets spread. (The spread for the TSA shotgun is increased to help hit targets I guess, because the cone is pretty large when you compare them to any modern shotguns)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yes, i know pellets spread, they are designed to and yes its a pretty big cone. i only made this ludicrous suggestion to show how ludicrous the nanites/pistol accuracy suggestion is. realisticially the cone of fire for the pistol would be much larger - there are other factors apart from barrel length that effect accuracy.
    if nanites did effect pistol bullets they way you suggested, then yes, your first bullet would be accurate. but when you shoot off 10shots in 2 secs, for the 2nd shot to be 100% accurate again the nanites would have to adjust your arms, elbows, wrists, hands and fingers to eliminate the recoil. in the animation the gun becomes fully raised, then goes back to the exact same position and back to 100% accuracy.

    one of the first negative impressions that i got from NS, was with the pistol. i instantly thought "wow, this gun is retarded" it simply doesnt make sense that its more accurate than any other gun in the game. i figured because it was a new mod they would fix this slight flaw in an upcomming version, but it remains unchanged. now that the game is going commercial, it will attract a whole new audience of first time players, that will feel a bit ripped off when they see the pistol if it still works the same way. its teribly unrealistic, and the devs only need to make slight adjustments to a couple of weapons to fix the problem, and keep the current gameplay intact.

    <!--quoteo(post=1664233:date=Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 16 2007, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The story can be wrapped around gameplay, not the other way around. Sorry!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    certain flaws in the game are covered over with the nanites story. it annoys the hell out of me when instead of providing help making suggestions to fix the flaws, people just say "nanites!" like its the be-all and end-all of everything in NS. yay! they've filled in the gap in the story, but the flaw still remains for all to see - not a good way to improve a game.
  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2007
    Wow, did you ever stop to think that they might intentionally incorporate deviation into the LMG and HMG bullets to make it easier to hit aliens at close range?
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    Don't let Domining turn this discussion into a flame war <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
    Who cares what the nanites are doing? - what's important is gameplay!
    <!--quoteo(post=1664310:date=Dec 16 2007, 07:34 PM:name=TommyVercetti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TommyVercetti @ Dec 16 2007, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, did you ever stop to think that they might intentionally incorporate deviation into the LMG and HMG bullets to make it easier to hit aliens at close range?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, this probably was a deliberate gameplay decision for NS1. Keeping it in mind, let's talk about NS2!
    I also think the zooming would work: i mean, it would only be useful over long ranges, where the marine movement is insignificant. Zooming could definitely work with LMG to fill the long-range niche. The zoom wouldn't be much, maybe x1.5. When in zoom mode, the marine would slow down and the rate of fire would decrease a bit. Without zoom it could have a higher rate of fire and bigger spread to allow some close-combat ability. That would change the role of LMG from 'all-purpose, weakest rifle' to 'long-range, anti-skulk, and anti-lerk weapon.' It would be useful even in late game in open areas and to counter skulks (and their parasite). I really think the LMG should take over NS1 HG's role... Still, this discussion is about the NS2 HG, so let's talk about that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
    The current handgun's role could be kept by reducing the primary fire accuracy to be similar to TF2 engineer pistol. The alt fire could bring up a zoom, slowing down the marine but allowing perfect accuracy.
  • DominingDomining Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
    Bullet spread has got to be the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced in video games after 'down times'. New FPS players already have a primary weapon which has ridiculous spread to help them out. I don't understand why you'd want sacrificed accuracy.

    What would be cool would be a large caliber semi-auto pistol (which doesn't look like a revolver) which shoots high-heat incendiary projectiles without spread BUT with a max effective range. (they could do like 10 damage each after shotgun range) I'd take that with a lmg reflex sight w/o zoom or.. fine 1.25 zoom.

    I like my idea.
  • Wyattx3Wyattx3 Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18386Members
    You can't deny the way some people abuse the pistol, If you wan't to argue that the pistol is balanced around parasiting skulks and lerks... your entitled to your opinions, but that isn't how it should be.

    If you've ever had 3 marines starring into a vent with their pistols out, you can jump up for a second and back down, and you'll notice 30 pistol bullets laying out the back of the vent in half a second.

    Or if you've ever played co_faceoff ( I think its this one) With the spot in the ceiling connected to the alien hive, you know how dangerous it can be to try and parasite there. And if you think that since marines are vulnerable to a parasite, aliens should be vulnerable to death, once again your entitled to your opinion, but I just happen to disagree with you.


    Now I understand how having a 100% accurate no recoil pistol is actually a good thing, there really isn't any way to get lerks/skulks/gorges at a long distance, but the speed you can fire a pistol off is just too great in that situation.... Spit is easily avoidable, spore can be dealt with by getting out of the gas, and parasite...well it just isn't that big of a deal, where as the marine has effectively a pocket sniper rifle.

    And if your trying to figure out why you give lower accuracy weapons in a game, you need to realize there is another team, and its called the aliens.
  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Wyattx3+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wyattx3)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->since marines are vulnerable to a parasite, aliens should be vulnerable to death<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, I do think that. Marines have guns. Aliens do not; they MUST fight in close quarters unless they have spore or acid rocket.
  • DominingDomining Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664322:date=Dec 16 2007, 10:16 PM:name=TommyVercetti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TommyVercetti @ Dec 16 2007, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, I do think that. Marines have guns. Aliens do not; they MUST fight in close quarters unless they have spore or acid rocket.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ^

    Also, a parasite on a a0 marine is like a free bite. Why should you get a FREE bite?

    There is no way to exploit a pistol, anything you can do with it is 100% legit.
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664332:date=Dec 16 2007, 11:48 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 16 2007, 11:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, a parasite on a a0 marine is like a free bite. Why should you get a FREE bite?
    There is no way to exploit a pistol, anything you can do with it is 100% legit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You disappoint me, Domining, i thought you were NS1 veteran... Parasite does 10 damage, TEN. It takes 2 bites + 1 para to kill a marine at a0 or 16 parasites (energy cost is 30%, so you're lucky if you get 4 in at once!). Originally, a0 gave 100hp+25ar, but it got changed to 100hp+30ar at request by NS community because 2-hitting (or 1-hitting with focus) marines was overpowered and parasite was underused. Parasite is there NOT to damage marines, but to put them on hive-site so the teammates know where marines are. I assumed you'd know that, but if you do, why do you post this !@#$ in here?

    Oh, and speaking of parasites, there is a post just for you...

    I guess i'll have to start another topic, because this one was successfully hijacked by trolls bound to maintain the NS1 HG as it is by any means.
  • enigmaenigma Join Date: 2004-09-11 Member: 31623Members
    edited December 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1664337:date=Dec 17 2007, 12:21 AM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 17 2007, 12:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664337"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You disappoint me, Domining, i thought you were NS1 veteran... Parasite does 10 damage, TEN. It takes 2 bites + 1 para to kill a marine at a0 or 16 parasites (energy cost is 30%, so you're lucky if you get 4 in at once!). Originally, a0 gave 100hp+25ar, but it got changed to 100hp+30ar at request by NS community because 2-hitting (or 1-hitting with focus) marines was overpowered and parasite was underused. Parasite is there NOT to damage marines, but to put them on hive-site so the teammates know where marines are. I assumed you'd know that, but if you do, why do you post this !@#$ in here?

    Oh, and speaking of parasites, there is a post just for you...

    I guess i'll have to start another topic, because this one was successfully hijacked by trolls bound to maintain the NS1 HG as it is by any means.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He's not trolling. It takes three bites to kill an a0 marine. It takes two with a parasite, so in a way it is a free bite.
    You can't deny that parasite is effective in removing light marine armor.
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664339:date=Dec 17 2007, 12:31 AM:name=enigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enigma @ Dec 17 2007, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He's not trolling. It takes three bites to kill an a0 marine. It takes two with a parasite, so in a way it is a free bite.
    You can't deny that parasite is effective in removing light marine armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I can and will deny that parasite is effective in removing a1, a2, and a3 light armor (though i can't deny about a0). And if you read my post, you'll find out why it has been done: to encourage use of parasite, which was underused, to avoid forcing the a1 as first upgrade.
    And Domining is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29" target="_blank">trolling</a>, by baiting other users into arguments about irrelevant topics such as parasites.
  • CronoRayCronoRay Canada, British Columbia Join Date: 2005-04-13 Member: 48354Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I didn't read all of the replies in this post but i think a good handgun would be something similar to a Burst Fire Glock 17 with the the two fire modes primary being semi auto one shot, then the three round burst fire mode.

    The gun should have a unique look of course and have about a 45 too 65 % accuracy hit rate at long range preferably in between, and do a bit less damage then the current handgun due to the fact that it would have a three round burst which will add up to a bit more damage, and the three round burst should be a bit less accurate then the one round shot at any range but be the fire mode that does a bit more damage then the one round shot of the current handgun and the one i am talking about taking into consideration both the damage ratios of both handguns.

    The handgun can have a default red dot laser sight on it that is under the front of the gun, sorta like the current handgun but it will actually work and make the gun more accurate when shooting at small slow moving targets or even skulks. it shouldn't have the same clip size as a Glock 17 since that holds 31 rounds per clip, instead it should hold something like 18 rounds per clip and have a bit more rate of fire then the current handgun due to not doing as much damage per round, but not alot more rate of fire. it should be standard weapon all marines start with of course but be able to hold alot of extra ammo so it can last a long time when you run out of ammo for your primary guns, something like 108 extra ammo for a total of 126 ammo with the start clip and the extra clips added on.

    I think all marines should start with the handgun instead of having to buy them or addons for them when you can have a default laser sight on it with good rate of fire and high ammo count, which gets rid of the need for special mods for the gun or bigger guns which would hold alot less ammo and have slower rate of fire being less effective against faster aliens.
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    Thanks for your suggestion, Cronoray. You haven't missed much by skipping the replies: it was mostly a discussion about NS1 handgun, its role in NS1, and why it should/should not change. I have put all HG suggestions on original post and will continue to do so. Try to use a format similar NS1 pistol and add numbers, so it will be possible to make direct comparisons.
  • invader Ziminvader Zim Join Date: 2007-09-20 Member: 62376Members
    Pistol could have a slow fire high accuracy secondary fire for combating vent skulks.

    A quick (possibly burst fire) primary fire for a close range follow up to ur primary weapon.


    The secondary fire would be more powerful but after shooting the gun would either recoil or take a longer time to chamber the next round. So you could slap a skulk but not drill it 10 times in its foot and kill it. So if the skulks half awake it could take say 20-30hp damage and get away. Primary fire would be less power full, less accurate but higher rof for more close range needs. Why would one gun have two such different firing mechanisims. well this is Sci fi so - heres my explanation. The pistol has two barrels one bellow the other. When it fires primary fire it just fires the bullets out the top barrel using an electronic firing mechanisim. When it fires secondary fire It chambers a bullet in to the larger lower barrel. It then plasma presurise the bullet in to glowing hot and expanding. It then fires the bullet with a traditional hammer firing mechanism with a different spin on the bullet. this gives it greater accuracy and damage but the gun needs longer to cool down and eject the caseing.

    The exact figures would need play testing out but this pistol would use its alternative fire to fufil a different weapon role.

    Atm i dont find the HG particually satisfying to fire. i like guns in games that sound beefy (even if they arnt that powerful). Id like the new HG for ns2 to sound and look more satisfying when u shoot it.
  • BuzzouBuzzou Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1664312:date=Dec 17 2007, 01:22 AM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 17 2007, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664312"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't let Domining turn this discussion into a flame war <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yeah, he really gets excited at times.... i just wanna stir him up one last time and then thats it. and hey, its even with a (semi) legitimate suggestion, everyone wins!

    oakie dokie, obviously some people really love the nerfed sniping aspect of the current pistol, i for one do not due to realism. so what if in NS2 by using alt-fire, you attach an extended barrel, much like attaching a bayonet in day of defeat? (i was going to suggest a scope as well, but we all know the response). it would take a second or 2 to attach it, but then you could snipe away to your hearts content, knowing that the acuracy is now actually plausable. hell, it could even be an upgrade, so you permanantly have a one-and-a-half-foot long pistol, kinda like dirty harry...

    sorry, had to get that off my chest. now for a truely legitimate suggestion.

    <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->attachments<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

    how about in NS2 for an alt fire, the comm can research attachable ammunition? think of batman's gun, when attaches a grappling hook into the barrel of the gun, then shoots it etc. basicially comm would research them pretty cheap (say 10res per type, like hand grens), and when you buy your gear from the armory, you can select the type you want (if researched) but only 1 type. for obvious reasons ammo should be limited to 2-3, and should cost the individual marine some res to purchase them as well. variations could include:

    * the tracking bug thingy i mentioned in an earlier post.

    * tranquilizer darts, that slow the alien by 10-20% or makes them groggy/distorts their vision or something.

    * a shootable net, thats only big enough to snare a skulk/gorge/lerk.. like what zoo-keepers/riot police sometimes use. it wouldnt stop a fade, just distract him (i know all the lerk lovers will hate this, but its open to <u>sensible</u> debate)

    * flares

    * grappling hook, many uses, for example, reaching areas well before JP's are upgraded. (i'm only really putting this in coz it would be funny to see someone shoot one into an onos, only for him to go charging away, dragging the marine like a water-skiier) it could also be used as a fade trap if it also has the ability to be used like the gorge web, you shoot it into opposite walls in a corridor, creating a high tensile steel rope, that a fade could blink into - hopefully around neck height.

    * hell, even a mini scanner sweep thingy like Domining mentioned in one of his earlier posts. load it in, shoot it down the corridor, and watch those pesky cloakers within 3-5m of the point of impact uncloak....

    * extendable sniper barrel (if you actually liked the idea)

    * not explosives. we already have hand grenades for that.

    i know they are not all perfect, but at least you get the idea, and should be able to think of more. or at least provide suggestions to tweak the current ones to your liking...

    the more options for attachments available, the more it would cost for the comm to research them all. but at the same time, the more attachments upgraded, the more options available to change the gameplay in the marines favor (i'm not here to suggest a counter for the aliens, just HG ideas).
    if a squad of 5-6 marines agreed to each get a seperate atachment, they would be able to handle a wide variety of sutuations better, but it would cost heaps to research. alternatively the comm could just get early grappling hooks for redroom, or flares for dark maps, tranquilizers for onos etc...
  • Wyattx3Wyattx3 Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18386Members
    You can't kill a marine in a second with parasite ( Due to the energy cost ), they still have to close the distance to get in the extra 2 bites. A marine well, If that alien knows not to stick himself out in the open for longer than a second there isn't going to be an alien anymore.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1664345:date=Dec 17 2007, 12:50 AM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 17 2007, 12:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664345"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can and will deny that parasite is effective in removing a1, a2, and a3 light armor (though i can't deny about a0). And if you read my post, you'll find out why it has been done: to encourage use of parasite, which was underused, to avoid forcing the a1 as first upgrade.
    And Domining is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29" target="_blank">trolling</a>, by baiting other users into arguments about irrelevant topics such as parasites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Domining isn't trolling though. He really believes only people with 3 seasons of CAL experience should be able to comment on game ideas. I think he's right in this thread for the most part, although you hit the reason for the armor change on the head, to encourage the use of para. Comparing parasite to the pistol doesn't make sense because this is one of the areas where the two teams are asymmetric. I think people just misunderstood the 'pistol as a counter to para' point and that how this whole discussion got started. People flame him because he used to flame a lot, but now he only flames a little so give him some credit.
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664413:date=Dec 17 2007, 10:44 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Dec 17 2007, 10:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664413"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Domining isn't trolling though. He really believes only people with 3 seasons of CAL experience should be able to comment on game ideas. I think he's right in this thread for the most part, although you hit the reason for the armor change on the head, to encourage the use of para. Comparing parasite to the pistol doesn't make sense because this is one of the areas where the two teams are asymmetric. I think people just misunderstood the 'pistol as a counter to para' point and that how this whole discussion got started. People flame him because he used to flame a lot, but now he only flames a little so give him some credit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Domining has been right about <u>every single</u> thing he said about NS (He's even right about para being like a free bite at ar0. The thing that infuriated me was his implying that it was an exploit, which it clearly isn't. Plus, obviously this has nothing to do with NS2 HG ideas) ... and yet his posts have brought the discussion of NS2 HGs to a halt. Yes, currently NS1 pistol is a long-range sniping weapon, yes it's a counter to parasite, yes we can't remove it - post these concerns once and move on! On a <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=103420&view=findpost&p=1664301" target="_blank">post specifically for Domining</a>, i mention the problems with his attitude:
    <!--quoteo(post=1664301:date=Dec 16 2007, 06:47 PM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 16 2007, 06:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) it makes a hostile environment - instead of a creative one, 2) it focuses discussion on NS1 - instead of NS2, 3) bogs discussion down to minute details - instead of overall ideas. I value your input - you are knowledgeable and bring many important points. However, i'd like you to use your knowledge constructively instead of bringing down others.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And how to create constructive posts?
    - first, think if you can you agree with anything at all in an idea and mention it (this is a frequently overlooked step. Often people agree with the overall idea, but will mention only their concerns making it seem like they dismiss it as a whole)
    - then, mention weaknesses, things you disagree or see a problems with, one at a time
    - Think of ways to avoid the problems in the idea and offer this advice
    - if you see something completely ludicrous, ignore it - it will most-likely disappear into oblivion. If the idea does get picked up by others, you can post your concerns then.

    Should ONLY experienced NS players add their ideas?
    - No, but NS veterans can be very valuable in directing ideas made by others. Newer players may propose things that are overpowered or useless and not even know it - and this is where the veterans can help. It's important to be open to completely new suggestions. NS2 will change a LOT: think of what the alien commander will do to the game?!

    Also, NS2 has to be geared for two audiences: new/pub players and competitive players
    I've read that turrets (or god forbid, electrification!!!) are never used in competitive games, yet it's a fun AND useful thing for newer players.
    I have played NS for quite some time, but have never participated in any competitive events or CAL. I won't be able to make suggestions that will make the game balanced for competitive NS2, but i can try to add fun and useful ideas for new players.

    See what Domining makes us do?! This big post has nothing, nothing to do with HGs!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    PS but if it encourage him to post constructive posts, it would have been well worth it! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
  • Wyattx3Wyattx3 Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18386Members
    NS2 is a different game though, most of what domining even refers are game mechanics of NS and will have very little to do with NS2, its great to talk about this kind of stuff when we know what the purpose of the pistol is in NS2, but we're assuming it will be like the one in NS.


    The point I'm trying to make is that Domining says he likes the way the pistol is now. And I have no problems with that, but when you completely shut out other peoples' ideas because they think they have authority on an issue that has very little to do with the actual subject being discussed.


    Anyways, as for NS2 I know I would like the pistol to be changed, and I'm sure other people would as well. Given that one word ( Nanites ) can be used against any discussion made in these topics It would be nice if people just left it out.

    As for specifics, the high rate of fire and the accuracy of the pistol in the hands of anyone who can aim and knows how to make a script or mousewheel provides for a very gimmicky game mechanic. Thats all I'm trying to say, and any reference to NS or comparison to Parasite won't change my mind.
  • DominingDomining Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
    edited December 2007
    I should excuse myself for not wording my idea as well as I should have. The thread's name is NS2 Handgun Ideas. My NS2 handgun idea is as follows: (Yea they've been sort-of mentioned, but I think the design in your post is extremely CSish and less Quakeish.)

    Starting pistol: (7.62x25mm Pistol)
    Primary - Exactly the same as the NS1 pistol down to the 10 round clip and 20 damage. .2 sec cooldown.
    Secondary - [upgrade] scanner sweep, 1x.
    Reason: There is no reason to make an inaccurate pistol. That's like adding the TF2 crits to this game.
    Why it isn't a primary: Low clip size and no bullet spread mean that it's almost impossible to use when it comes down to being all close and personal.

    Purchasable option #1: (9x33mm Pistol)
    Primary - Fires one powerful, large caliber high heat round which turns to mush after ~ max shotgun range and does like 10 points of damage after that range. Pin-point accurate. 6/8 round clip. .5 sec cooldown.
    Secondary: The panic mode! Fires rounds in quick succession but at the complete sacrifice of accuracy. .3sec cooldown
    Reason: Bringing you the power you want, without the element of LOLOMGCHANCE! And no sniping with this pistol.
    Why it isn't a primary: Small clip and extreme specialization, it complements long/mid ranged primary weapons perfectly though.

    Purchasable option #2: (00 sawed-off single barreled shotgun)
    Primary - Buckshot!!! 1 round chambered only
    Secondary - Underside concussion launcher!? Or maybe even switch ammo type between 2 given ones.
    Reason: Because everyone wants to hold that much power in their pocket at all times.
    Why it isn't a primary: Holds only 1 round and must be reloaded every time, very hard to use against fast moving targets but if you can - hey, its still a shotgun.

    Purchasable option #3: (9x19mm SMG)
    Primary - Pea shooter basically, even a simple late 20th century L1 kevlar vest could stop it. Cooldown is .1sec, full auto, 5 damage. 40 round clip.
    Secondary - Silencer
    Reason: If you have a grenade launcher you may not really want a semi-auto sidearm to defend yourself, even though it could do more damage this is easier to use as a sort of a backup primary.
    Why it isn't a primary: Way too weak! It takes more than 1/2 of the clip to kill a skulk!

    Of course you may replace the starting pistol with any of the other ones I've mentioned, but I'd very much like to see it in NS2.

    <!--quoteo(post=1664428:date=Dec 17 2007, 12:21 PM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 17 2007, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Should ONLY experienced NS players add their ideas?
    - No, but NS veterans can be very valuable in directing ideas made by others. Newer players may propose things that are overpowered or useless and not even know it - and this is where the veterans can help. It's important to be open to completely new suggestions. NS2 will change a LOT: think of what the alien commander will do to the game?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103450" target="_blank">every</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103449" target="_blank">single</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103380" target="_blank">bad</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103430" target="_blank">idea</a> was instantly shot down, I wouldn't have a problem with it. They are not in a lot of cases. What I mean by "3 seasons of cal experience" is that you should only be allowed to post ideas if you fully understand how Natural Selection is played on a competitive level. If you do not, and you are very well content with the pub ns gameplay you are risking catering this game solely to the custom l50 carapace hunger fade players. That's not how you properly design a game if you want anyone to play it for more than a day. You have to be extremely conservative with new ideas since Max & Charlie are bent on ruining everything great about NS. (Okay that came out WAY stronger than I intended it to, but alien comm? wtf?) If you guys ported NS to source as it is right now, it'd be played in CPL.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, NS2 has to be geared for two audiences: new/pub players and competitive players
    I've read that turrets (or god forbid, electrification!!!) are never used in competitive games, yet it's a fun AND useful thing for newer players.
    I have played NS for quite some time, but have never participated in any competitive events or CAL. I won't be able to make suggestions that will make the game balanced for competitive NS2, but i can try to add fun and useful ideas for new players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Static defenses are more frustration than fun. Not many players prefer to play against aimbotting NPCs to real live humans - which is why multiplayer is such a huge success.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->See what Domining makes us do?! This big post has nothing, nothing to do with HGs!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I didn't make you do it in any way. You're trolling me to attack you ad hominem out of your own accord by turning this personal. Also, I didn't shut off anyone's ideas, I don't have that power. /end

    Oh and also, why I generally don't like luck too much:
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzv8r4UTF9A&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzv8r4UTF9A...feature=related</a>
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664402:date=Dec 17 2007, 09:36 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Dec 17 2007, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how about in NS2 for an alt fire, the comm can research attachable ammunition?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This idea, though really cool, goes way beyond HGs. If it were possible for commander to choose attachment-upgrades for weapons, the first ones to be considered would be primary, not secondary, weapons. I think the attachment idea deserves its own topic.
    So instead of pursuing this, i'd like to take some of your examples as inspiration for alt-fire abilities to HGs.
    Adding a short-term tracker or disorienting/slowing aliens would add interesting utility to the secondary weapon. Obviously it will have to be balanced, but <b>this might offer interesting choices to marines: use my primary weapon to damage the alien OR use my secondary weapon to weaken the alien in another way and in that way help teammates survive/kill it. </b>
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Starting pistol: (7.62x25mm Pistol)
    Primary - Exactly the same as the NS1 pistol down to the 10 round clip and 20 damage. .2 sec cooldown.
    Secondary - [upgrade] scanner sweep, 1x.
    Reason: There is no reason to make an inaccurate pistol. That's like adding the TF2 crits to this game.
    Why it isn't a primary: Low clip size and no bullet spread mean that it's almost impossible to use when it comes down to being all close and personal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Scan is a cool idea, I like it. Should be a much smaller radius than normal scan though.
    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Purchasable option #1: (9x33mm Pistol)

    Purchasable option #2: (00 sawed-off single barreled shotgun)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There aren't really any long ranged marine weapons. The longest range one is the lmg really. Also I find it hard to believe most players would want a secondary with such limited ammo.
    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Purchasable option #3: (9x19mm SMG)
    Primary - Pea shooter basically, even a simple late 20th century L1 kevlar vest could stop it. Cooldown is .1sec, full auto, 5 damage. 40 round clip.
    Secondary - Silencer
    Reason: If you have a grenade launcher you may not really want a semi-auto sidearm to defend yourself, even though it could do more damage this is easier to use as a sort of a backup primary.
    Why it isn't a primary: Way too weak! It takes more than 1/2 of the clip to kill a skulk!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Maybe, I could see providing a weapon like this for GL carriers as you suggest as long as they still need squad support, which you understand.
    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course you may replace the starting pistol with any of the other ones I've mentioned, but I'd very much like to see it in NS2.
    If <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103450" target="_blank">every</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103449" target="_blank">single</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103380" target="_blank">bad</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103430" target="_blank">idea</a> was instantly shot down, I wouldn't have a problem with it. They are not in a lot of cases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's the point, just because you think they are bad doesn't make them bad. Having versatility with grenades is very similar to having versatility with secondary weapons, to pick on of the topics you selected. Generally no idea when first proposed is perfect for the game. It takes a lot of refinement of a seemingly "dumb" idea to make it workable and possibly good. Unless a topic has legs under it you're better off not posting and letting it drift to the bottom of the forum.
    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I mean by "3 seasons of cal experience" is that you should only be allowed to post ideas if you fully understand how Natural Selection is played on a competitive level. If you do not, and you are very well content with the pub ns gameplay you are risking catering this game solely to the custom l50 carapace hunger fade players. That's not how you properly design a game if you want anyone to play it for more than a day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is just not true at all. First off a healthy competitive scene depends on a healthy public scene. You can't have a good clan without a good pool of players to draw on and the ability it scrim/practice at will. Of course you can't cater to the xtra levels combat players, just like you can't cater to a select group of clanners. There were/are a good number of public server players that don't play xtra levels combat. The dev team has never catered to either interest(with the exception of blockscripts but that didn't effect clan play so it was more of a moot point than people tend to make it out to be)
    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have to be extremely conservative with new ideas since Max & Charlie are bent on ruining everything great about NS. (Okay that came out WAY stronger than I intended it to, but alien comm? wtf?) If you guys ported NS to source as it is right now, it'd be played in CPL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think a lot of people on these forums went 'wtf' at the alien commander, myself included. I've been playing the game they made for 5 years so I have faith that they know what their doing. Regardless, that's not the topic we're discussing.
    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh and also, why I generally don't like luck too much:
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzv8r4UTF9A&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzv8r4UTF9A...feature=related</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    [offtopic] The more kills you get the more likely you are to get crits as long as you stay alive. It's a way to reward you for being skilled while giving other players a chance to kill you still. I like TF2, crits included(but I hope they never make it into NS2)[/offtopic]
  • DominingDomining Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664462:date=Dec 17 2007, 04:02 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Dec 17 2007, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There aren't really any long ranged marine weapons. The longest range one is the lmg really. Also I find it hard to believe most players would want a secondary with such limited ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yea, and if the lmg in NS2 has a usable reflex sight - as suggested by many people in this thread, it'd become a real long range weapon. (A full blown scope would be worthless considering how all levels take place indoors and such)

    And no, most people would probably prefer a mix between the NS pistol and the LMG I guess. 15 damage, semi auto, bigger clip, spread? As long as I wouldn't be forced to use it, I guess it could be cool.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe, I could see providing a weapon like this for GL carriers as you suggest as long as they still need squad support, which you understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yea, I think I've balanced it rather perfectly for that end.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's the point, just because you think they are bad doesn't make them bad. Having versatility with grenades is very similar to having versatility with secondary weapons, to pick on of the topics you selected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was referring to the frost grenade in particular. A slowed ANYTHING is paper and there are a bunch of problems with that.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Generally no idea when first proposed is perfect for the game. It takes a lot of refinement of a seemingly "dumb" idea to make it workable and possibly good. Unless a topic has legs under it you're better off not posting and letting it drift to the bottom of the forum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There are many ideas which are inherently bad and which may never improve. A sub-commander is a good example of that.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is just not true at all. First off a healthy competitive scene depends on a healthy public scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />

    A game will never develop a competitive scene unless.. it can be played competitively and is actually fun to play at that level.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[offtopic] The more kills you get the more likely you are to get crits as long as you stay alive. It's a way to reward you for being skilled while giving other players a chance to kill you still. I like TF2, crits included(but I hope they never make it into NS2)[/offtopic]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The guy who got those crits in that video DID NOT deserve them. He got progressively lucky and won that game purely by lottery.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1664472:date=Dec 17 2007, 04:46 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A game will never develop a competitive scene unless.. it can be played competitively and is actually fun to play at that level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No one here is suggesting that NS shouldn't have a competitive scene, but the competitive scene is not the be-all-end-all of NS. If the game is boring at the public level no one will play it.
    An alien commander would make the game much more competitive friendly(as well as pub friendly) but the differing command structures, among other things, are what make NS fun. You don't have to understand competitive NS to post a suggestion that would be fun. That's the point I'm trying to make.
    Some ideas are better than others but again just because you say a frost grenade is a bad idea doesn't make it so. A lot of ideas seem inherently unworkable, like the sub commander, but you never know what kind of discussion a thread can spawn.
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    edited December 2007
    Nice to hear some HG ideas from you, thanks! You're right, my ideas are probably CS biased - and i haven't played all Quake games. But also consider: all the things i put on original post were proposed in this topic by other users - I added nothing original yet.

    <!--quoteo(post=1664453:date=Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is no reason to make an inaccurate pistol. That's like adding the TF2 crits to this game.
    ...
    Bringing you the power you want, without the element of LOLOMGCHANCE! And no sniping with this pistol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Please elaborate on these - i don't see a connection. Are you trying to say that making inaccurate pistol will ruin NS2 like crits ruined TF2? (I would disagree with that statement)

    Btw, could you please add approximate damage values to your HG suggestions, so it would be easier to evaluate and compare them?
    Comments on your ideas:

    <b>Starting pistol: (7.62x25mm Pistol)</b>
    This is basically NS1 pistol so nothing to say here. Btw should i add/change on NS1 HG in my original post?

    - Did you intend the the scanner sweep to be shot out, or does it originate from player?
    - Would the radius be same as comm's scan?
    - What buildings+research cost are prerequisite?
    - can the scanner "bullet" be replenished at armory?
    The scanner would make the marines more independent from comm and would add a big counter against SC. Even if aliens don't have sc, it could help marines check if there are structures or camping aliens in a room. Decent upgrade, although a good comm could perform same job by building extra obs and scanning by hand.

    For all purchasable pistols, please specify approximately how much it would cost and what buildings/research is required to get it. This will let me know when the HG intended to be used (opening/mid/end game) and how expensive it will be to comm/marine to get it.

    <b>Purchasable option #1: (9x33mm Pistol)</b>
    This idea intrigued me the most - a specialized close-range HG!
    - How much damage would it do?
    - How large would the distance be? (please state this in terms of amount of time skulk could travel that distance)
    At close range, this works very similar to the proposed magnum, except that this HG can have better accuracy at expense of RoF (i turned around the abilities). The fact that it can't hurt at long range further specialize its role as a close-range HG.

    <b>Purchasable option #2: (00 sawed-off single barreled shotgun)</b>
    My first impression was: "it's overpowered" though like everything it could be adjusted to be effective. Again, the damage and spread on this gun are important- right now i'll assume it has SG characteristics - but with this baby the draw time will also be important. I can envision marines shooting aliens with their primary gun and when they come close, draw this monster and hopefully finish it off. Another use would be to have this gun out when turning corners to kills camping skulks.

    <b>Purchasable option #3: (9x19mm SMG)</b>
    This seems a lot like the machine gun. My concern with this one is that it's basically a weaker, noob-friendly NS1 pistol. It has same max-damage, but loses accuracy, has half damage/sec and you have to pay to get it. And for these big disadvantages it only gains automatic fire. Also, the silencer alt-fire seems useless, since noobs won't understand power of silencer and it's use is backup to primary weapon, will guarantee that when using it, aliens will already now where the marine is.
    This machine HG has to be buffed significantly, before being anywhere useful.
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    Off-topic post

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If every single bad idea was instantly shot down, I wouldn't have a problem with it. They are not in a lot of cases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is the key in your attitude problem: You first think about how to shoot down/destroy ideas. This approach will get a lot of people frustrated. Even when you do propose something extremely useful, people will still try to dismiss you. Why should they agree with your idea if you don't with theirs? Even if you are right and they are wrong, they don't know it, and will continue to flame you. And finally, *gasp* you might be wrong about something. Maybe an idea you didn't support in the beginning will go through several iterations, then play-tested, and will improve competitive game.
    As locallyunscene said, bad ideas will eventually go down if ignored. Make it your job to find ideas you agree with and help these improve. Things that you know will be implemented and you disagree with (such as alien commander) are a different matter. Still, it won't help NS2 by posting nothing or repeating "it's bad because it won't be NS1 anymore!" The best for NS2 will be if you give your advice on how to make it bearable and balanced.
  • DominingDomining Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664488:date=Dec 17 2007, 05:44 PM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 17 2007, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664488"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please elaborate on these - i don't see a connection. Are you trying to say that making inaccurate pistol will ruin NS2 like crits ruined TF2? (I would disagree with that statement)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Inaccurate weapons = random chance, not skill.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Starting pistol: (7.62x25mm Pistol)</b>
    This is basically NS1 pistol so nothing to say here. Btw should i add/change on NS1 HG in my original post?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You can add whatever I said to it and maybe even add that caliber. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (its a tokarev)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Did you intend the the scanner sweep to be shot out, or does it originate from player?
    - Would the radius be same as comm's scan?
    - What buildings+research cost are prerequisite?
    - can the scanner "bullet" be replenished at armory?
    The scanner would make the marines more independent from comm and would add a big counter against SC. Even if aliens don't have sc, it could help marines check if there are structures or camping aliens in a room. Decent upgrade, although a good comm could perform same job by building extra obs and scanning by hand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1&2 - No, it'd have just enough range for you to 'predict' where the aliens would be and it'd paint them for you on your minimap/uncloak them.
    3 - Observatory research, 20 res - same time as a1.
    4 - No, there needs to be a commander 'resupply' function which would let the comm restock non primary/secondary ammo like hand grenades and said scanner shots.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Purchasable option #1: (9x33mm Pistol)</b>
    This idea intrigued me the most - a specialized close-range HG!
    - How much damage would it do?
    - How large would the distance be? (please state this in terms of amount of time skulk could travel that distance)
    At close range, this works very similar to the proposed magnum, except that this HG can have better accuracy at expense of RoF (i turned around the abilities). The fact that it can't hurt at long range further specialize its role as a close-range HG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1 - I'd say 40 points would be fair (3 hits on skulk), maybe a late game armory upgrade which lets it do 80 damage would be in order.
    2- On ns_nothing in marine start, from the vent exit to the directly opposing wall. (the one by the pit)
    It'd require weapons 1 (and will obviously receive the +10% damage bonus), cost is 3 res. (its a .357magnum btw)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Purchasable option #2: (00 sawed-off single barreled shotgun)</b>
    My first impression was: "it's overpowered" though like everything it could be adjusted to be effective. Again, the damage and spread on this gun are important- right now i'll assume it has SG characteristics - but with this baby the draw time will also be important. I can envision marines shooting aliens with their primary gun and when they come close, draw this monster and hopefully finish it off. Another use would be to have this gun out when turning corners to kills camping skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Its not overpowered because you only get one shot (which isn't the easiest thing to kill anything with), I kind of envisioned it as a way of surprising aggressive lerks and bad fades.
    You can buy this off the bat w/o any upgrades and it'd cost something like 1/2 res.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Purchasable option #3: (9x19mm SMG)</b>
    This seems a lot like the machine gun. My concern with this one is that it's basically a weaker, noob-friendly NS1 pistol. It has same max-damage, but loses accuracy, has half damage/sec and you have to pay to get it. And for these big disadvantages it only gains automatic fire. Also, the silencer alt-fire seems useless, since noobs won't understand power of silencer and it's use is backup to primary weapon, will guarantee that when using it, aliens will already now where the marine is.
    This machine HG has to be buffed significantly, before being anywhere useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1 res, available with an arms lab!

    <!--quoteo(post=1664492:date=Dec 17 2007, 06:10 PM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 17 2007, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the key in your attitude problem: You first think about how to shoot down/destroy ideas. This approach will get a lot of people frustrated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Being a conservative in my ideology, that's my job. I bring up points against ideas and people get frustrated because I disagree. I am entitled to my views and opinions as much as you are, but being an arrogant individualist by nature, I like to tell people otherwise. (even though I don't really believe so <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
    I really like the suggestions made by Domining regarding different types of pistols.

    It helped inspire this idea.

    Remember how it was suggested that one could attack the blade to our main weapon?

    What if we could do that with Domining's pistol ideas too?

    Here is what I envision, I picture like that kid in Robocop (2?), who's like lunch box or something unfolds into like an uzi. Now, take that picture and toss it in with "Domining Pistols" ™ and let that rumble around in your brain for a bit.

    What this idea proposes taking whatever kind of secondary weapon we have, and take the time to change / nanite-robotic morph it into a part that hooks on under barrel, extends the barrel or goes scope position - whatever is more appropriate - and let that be the LMG, Shot, Nade, Flame, or HMG secondary fire related.

    I always wanted to play with attachments, I liked other threads that proposed this. Now seeing the different possibilities for the "pistol" slot that Domining brain stormed, which I loved, wouldn't it be cool if you could "whip that out" using secondary fire, seeing as they are meant to be secondary weapons anyways? I think for new players and old alike this could be fun, choose your secondary fire aka secondary weapon! It would also insure the pistols would not remain un-used.

    After that light came on, old hopes in me with regards to pistols come to light as well:

    I wish I could dual wield the pistols. Even if I had to give up my LMG, even if it sucked compared to the LMG, I would still have fun using duals, even if they had the perfect aim taken away.

    In fact, I don't like the perfect aim of the pistol either, I always found it ... unbelievable as the sniper weapon. If the game needs a sniper weapon, I say give us a sniper weapon, not a pistol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> The use of the "fire the pistol uber fast!" stuff was ... silly to me too. Not because I was bad at it, just because it felt, umm, like I was cheating on my LMG. Weird I know, but I thought, if you wanted more ammo, why bother with the pistol, just give the LMG a bigger clip <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    And I know this is off topic but the other weapons bug me too, they all seem far behind what I would expect a society that has nanites as its back bone for ... well, everything. The nanites can build space ships, bases, and space stations - not to mention phase gates and infantry portals ... but it can't build a nade launcher with a clip, a shotgun with a clip, a HMG with a rotating barrel, different kinds of ammo... Meh. So really, my beef isn't with the purpose of the weapons, it is the sense of advancement withing Natural Selection mythos, which extends to the weird oddity that a NS1 pistol is. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> I really hope NS2 does alot better and gives both Kharaa and Marines the means to wage some really fun battles in The War <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
  • SiforSifor Join Date: 2005-04-12 Member: 48244Members, Constellation
    edited December 2007
    i don't know if somebody already said something like that but...

    tracking bullet : the first bullet of the handgun clip can be a tracking bullet (like MT) if you shoot this bullet you cant have another one while player respawn

    this bullet = no damage (or very low , like parasite) and you can trace the alien ... but i think its a little unfair so... if gorge are healing a tracked aliens the tracker will be automatically tuned off.

    its just an idea so.. just comment <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    happy Christmas !
  • afratnikovafratnikov Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1664564:date=Dec 19 2007, 12:46 AM:name=Sifor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sifor @ Dec 19 2007, 12:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this bullet = no damage (or very low , like parasite) and you can trace the alien ... but i think its a little unfair so... if gorge are healing a tracked aliens the tracker will be automatically tuned off.

    its just an idea so.. just comment <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    happy Christmas !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Tracking bullet = parasite! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
    Something similar has been suggested, but unlike para it would have a limited signal range.
    Thanks for the idea though - please post when you think of something else.
    Merry Christmas everyone!
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