my favorite South Park episode is where Cartman tricks some guy's parents into trespassing onto some farmer's land, and the farmer kills them because he has the right to defend his land, and Cartman cooks them up and feeds them to their son.
<!--quoteo(post=1661084:date=Nov 19 2007, 01:14 AM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Nov 19 2007, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...]And as to lolfighter's capitalistic society comment: Comon now, what kind of bull###### is that? We know you like Americans about as far as you can throw them, but are you really so ignorant as to think we don't believe in sanctity of life? ######, if we were to go by your kind of "The worst of your people is obviously your average" way of looking at things, I'm sure I could bring up a whole list of things you'd call foul on. Seriously now, opinion over what to do is one thing, but saying that anti-capitalist BS is just ignorant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was a sarcastic remark, in line with "lol frenchies suck" or "lol all germans are nazis." It's only on par with the ###### I have to endure on the internet every day, you capitalistic pigdog, and the bible supports eye-for-an-eye, like DHP pointed out earlier.
<!--quoteo(post=1661112:date=Nov 18 2007, 09:47 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Nov 18 2007, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my favorite South Park episode is where Cartman tricks some guy's parents into trespassing onto some farmer's land, and the farmer kills them because he has the right to defend his land, and Cartman cooks them up and feeds them to their son.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and then radiohead come along and call him a cry baby.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
As usual on this sort of topic, I'm going to be unpopular.
The guy was an idiot. Don't get me wrong, he massively overreacted. But at the same time, laws exist to say 'Hey, we abide by these rules, which means we gain these benefits'. You break into peoples' homes, you've voided the benefits of that society. I think it's sad that it happened, because it really didn't need to, but at the same time, I find it very hard to generate sympathy for the two 'victims' either.
The law should then account for the old man too, as he also broke the law.
<!--quoteo(post=1661179:date=Nov 19 2007, 12:59 PM:name=MamboKing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MamboKing @ Nov 19 2007, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think its a crazy old coot that wanted to kill some black people.
edit: Oh and I think its wrong to kill people for theft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were Spanish.
Also, it sounds like the guy was just really addled and worked up.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1660988:date=Nov 18 2007, 07:51 AM:name=Depot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Depot @ Nov 18 2007, 07:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Moral of the story:</b> Don't mess with old people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT. They have nothing left to lose. <!--quoteo(post=1661040:date=Nov 18 2007, 03:37 PM:name=Dirty_Harry_Potter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dirty_Harry_Potter @ Nov 18 2007, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eye for an eye. Tooth for a tooth. Gory shotgun death for touching my stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I laughed and cried. <!--quoteo(post=1661087:date=Nov 18 2007, 07:23 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 18 2007, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shooting to wound could be argued in court that you weren't afraid for your life, which means you had no reason to harm the intruder. Simply: If you shoot to wound then you could be sued (successfully) by the thief.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't believe this for one second. Shooting someone in the leg would be a very effective way of preventing someone from stabbing/beating you. Any judge would recognize this.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
edited November 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1661180:date=Nov 19 2007, 10:01 AM:name=cshank4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cshank4 @ Nov 19 2007, 10:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661180"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They were Spanish.
Also, it sounds like the guy was just really addled and worked up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No doubt the old bastage was probably a racist, too. I think we're (almost) all in agreement that it really wasn't any kind of catastrophic loss of life.. and that's fortunate.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited November 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1661189:date=Nov 19 2007, 01:54 PM:name=Zig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zig @ Nov 19 2007, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No doubt the old bastage was probably a racist, too. I think we're (almost) all in agreement that it really wasn't any kind of catastrophic loss of life.. and that's fortunate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Catastrophic, no. I wouldn't trivialize it either. I don't know anything about the men he shot. They could have been wanted criminals, or they could have been fathers who couldn't feed their families.
<!--quoteo(post=1661191:date=Nov 19 2007, 01:02 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 19 2007, 01:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Catastrophic, no. I wouldn't trivialize it either. I don't know anything about the men he shot. They could have been wanted criminals, or they could have been fathers who couldn't feed their families.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1661191:date=Nov 19 2007, 07:02 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 19 2007, 07:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Catastrophic, no. I wouldn't trivialize it either. I don't know anything about the men he shot. They could have been wanted criminals, or they could have been fathers who couldn't feed their families.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. The law is there to ensure the fair capture and trial of anyone for anything. No one should be able to take the law into their own hands. This guy saw a crime being committed somewhere else, and decided to take the law into his own hands. That is the bottom line here. It is, essentially, the same as me going out and stabbing a weed dealer to death. I seriously doubt any of you would be on my side if I did that.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I find myself not quite as extreme either way Stick.
I believe the crazy old fool should be prosecuted within the letter of the law where he commited a crime, because we have duly appointed representatives of the Law whose job it is to enforce it. What I won't do is mourn the two idiots who knowingly invaded another person's home for their own benefit, as if they weren't aware of possible consequences.
I couldn't care less if they come out with stories about how they were 'driven to it'.
The same applies to your weed dealer comparison. No, I wouldn't go out & stab him, because I understand that's against the Law. But, if as a result of his activities, he got stabbed? I wouldn't bat an eyelid, apart from to hope a murderer with a knife to be added to the list of persons requiring justice for their crime.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1661197:date=Nov 19 2007, 11:39 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Nov 19 2007, 11:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is, essentially, the same as me going out and stabbing <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>a weed dealer<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b> to death. I seriously doubt any of you would be on my side if I did that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->OH <i>HELLLLLS</i> NO D:<
So, if i was to help a friend move some stuff, always get the old 60 year old geezer informed before he comes over and shoots you because he thinks you are a burglar? You shouldnt be able to carry arms as much as you shouldnt be able to drive at a certain age because of impairment.
Not that these circumstances holds that true, but it could likely happen. As likely as this happened.
If the circumstanses was different the old man could have though he heard a window break, and thought they looked like burglars. Doesn't sound from that article that he never even asked any questions when he had them at gun point.
<!--quoteo(post=1661034:date=Nov 18 2007, 03:07 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 18 2007, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661034"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hell, you could get killed pinching a pack of gum from a drugstore if the owner is in a homicidal mood that day. That doesn't mean that you deserve it, or that he is absolved of all blame if he decides to blow your ######ing head off. There's a reason why theft does not carry the death penalty, and that reason isn't "because the laws have yet to catch up to public sentiment."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A pack of gum, no. My tv, laptop, car, other things i cant just go out and buy every day, yea.
Killing in this country over injuring them is ideal, as you would be sued for shooting them in the end.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
I think the problem is more that we are arguing about it more than how to actually deal with it. This is the kind of thing where laws for situations like this do nothing but ###### the system up worse. Laws are made to be followed, not following them introduces risks- big risks. You have a reasonable expectation that when you are in someone's home, stealing things, that you're gonna get hurt. But if you're a shotgun toting vigilante, you most likely should expect getting thrown on the ground and cuffed, and going to jail for quite a while.
I wish we'd stop looking at people's situations to justify this stuff. I'm sorry, America, despite our economic situation, is by no means completely ignoring of its poor. If it was a father trying to feed his kids, I could practically promise there was a minimum of 1 place within 5 miles that he could've gotten food and clothing for them for little cost to no cost. Even here in Fresno, the #1 area of concentrated poverty in America, we have more than enough services for those who are having really hard times out there. Problem is, a lot of the people are either lazy, stupid, or think that they shouldn't have to do certain things for the stuff(For example, I was with my dad Downtown when a bum came up to us asking for money for food. It was about 11:00am, and a block away from us was the Fresno Rescue Mission. His reason for not just going in there? He didn't want to listen to the sermon. Comon, now. Sit in a nice warm place to get free food and a free place to sleep for the night? Score, plain and simple.).
There isn't any real excuse for breaking the law, and making exceptions to the laws because of someone's situation basically degrades the law into being completely useless.
<!--quoteo(post=1661282:date=Nov 20 2007, 07:46 AM:name=Drfuzzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Drfuzzy @ Nov 20 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661282"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A pack of gum, no. My tv, laptop, car, other things i cant just go out and buy every day, yea.
Killing in this country over injuring them is ideal, as you would be sued for shooting them in the end.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Now I'm convinced that you're just trolling.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1661301:date=Nov 20 2007, 05:29 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 20 2007, 05:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now I'm convinced that you're just trolling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Think again. You're less likely to be sued by someone who is dead.
Well, I guess the elderly man succeeded in what he set out to do, namely teach criminals a lesson. Unfortunately, the lesson he taught them is "bring an assault rifle and shoot first."
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1661321:date=Nov 20 2007, 08:49 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 20 2007, 08:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I guess the elderly man succeeded in what he set out to do, namely teach criminals a lesson. Unfortunately, the lesson he taught them is "bring an assault rifle and shoot first."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->They definitely lost the game of life. <img src="http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/The-Game-Of-Life-From-iFone-2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
To be fair if you invade a mans house to burgle him and he whacks out a shotgun and blindly rampages with it, your fault. Hands down to this old man. He plays a damn good game.
<!--quoteo(post=1661326:date=Nov 20 2007, 06:29 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Nov 20 2007, 06:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be fair if you invade <b>HIS NEIGHBOR'S</b> house to burgle <b>HIS NEIGHBOR</b> and he whacks out a shotgun and blindly <b>rampages</b> with it <b>DESPITE BEING TOLD TO STAY PUT BY THE POLICE</b>, <b>BAT###### BONKERS</b>. He plays a damn <b>MESSED UP</b> game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fixed..
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
<!--quoteo(post=1661401:date=Nov 21 2007, 07:28 AM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rob @ Nov 21 2007, 07:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is offtopic, but am I the only one who finds the "fixed" craze to be belligerent, spiteful, and generally without taste?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1661406:date=Nov 21 2007, 08:53 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 21 2007, 08:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except it's not funny, merely belligerent, spiteful and tasteless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> only when they rotsky it.
Comments
It was a sarcastic remark, in line with "lol frenchies suck" or "lol all germans are nazis." It's only on par with the ###### I have to endure on the internet every day, you capitalistic pigdog, and the bible supports eye-for-an-eye, like DHP pointed out earlier.
and then radiohead come along and call him a cry baby.
The guy was an idiot. Don't get me wrong, he massively overreacted. But at the same time, laws exist to say 'Hey, we abide by these rules, which means we gain these benefits'. You break into peoples' homes, you've voided the benefits of that society. I think it's sad that it happened, because it really didn't need to, but at the same time, I find it very hard to generate sympathy for the two 'victims' either.
The law should then account for the old man too, as he also broke the law.
- Shockwave
edit: Oh and I think its wrong to kill people for theft.
edit: Oh and I think its wrong to kill people for theft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were Spanish.
Also, it sounds like the guy was just really addled and worked up.
QFT. They have nothing left to lose.
<!--quoteo(post=1661040:date=Nov 18 2007, 03:37 PM:name=Dirty_Harry_Potter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dirty_Harry_Potter @ Nov 18 2007, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eye for an eye. Tooth for a tooth. Gory shotgun death for touching my stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I laughed and cried.
<!--quoteo(post=1661087:date=Nov 18 2007, 07:23 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 18 2007, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shooting to wound could be argued in court that you weren't afraid for your life, which means you had no reason to harm the intruder. Simply: If you shoot to wound then you could be sued (successfully) by the thief.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe this for one second. Shooting someone in the leg would be a very effective way of preventing someone from stabbing/beating you. Any judge would recognize this.
But he thought they were black.
Also, it sounds like the guy was just really addled and worked up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No doubt the old bastage was probably a racist, too. I think we're (almost) all in agreement that it really wasn't any kind of catastrophic loss of life.. and that's fortunate.
Catastrophic, no. I wouldn't trivialize it either. I don't know anything about the men he shot. They could have been wanted criminals, or they could have been fathers who couldn't feed their families.
Or both!
That makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. The law is there to ensure the fair capture and trial of anyone for anything. No one should be able to take the law into their own hands. This guy saw a crime being committed somewhere else, and decided to take the law into his own hands. That is the bottom line here. It is, essentially, the same as me going out and stabbing a weed dealer to death. I seriously doubt any of you would be on my side if I did that.
I believe the crazy old fool should be prosecuted within the letter of the law where he commited a crime, because we have duly appointed representatives of the Law whose job it is to enforce it. What I won't do is mourn the two idiots who knowingly invaded another person's home for their own benefit, as if they weren't aware of possible consequences.
I couldn't care less if they come out with stories about how they were 'driven to it'.
The same applies to your weed dealer comparison. No, I wouldn't go out & stab him, because I understand that's against the Law. But, if as a result of his activities, he got stabbed? I wouldn't bat an eyelid, apart from to hope a murderer with a knife to be added to the list of persons requiring justice for their crime.
- Shockwave
That's not even funny. Come on.
Not that these circumstances holds that true, but it could likely happen. As likely as this happened.
If the circumstanses was different the old man could have though he heard a window break, and thought they looked like burglars. Doesn't sound from that article that he never even asked any questions when he had them at gun point.
A pack of gum, no. My tv, laptop, car, other things i cant just go out and buy every day, yea.
Killing in this country over injuring them is ideal, as you would be sued for shooting them in the end.
I wish we'd stop looking at people's situations to justify this stuff. I'm sorry, America, despite our economic situation, is by no means completely ignoring of its poor. If it was a father trying to feed his kids, I could practically promise there was a minimum of 1 place within 5 miles that he could've gotten food and clothing for them for little cost to no cost. Even here in Fresno, the #1 area of concentrated poverty in America, we have more than enough services for those who are having really hard times out there. Problem is, a lot of the people are either lazy, stupid, or think that they shouldn't have to do certain things for the stuff(For example, I was with my dad Downtown when a bum came up to us asking for money for food. It was about 11:00am, and a block away from us was the Fresno Rescue Mission. His reason for not just going in there? He didn't want to listen to the sermon. Comon, now. Sit in a nice warm place to get free food and a free place to sleep for the night? Score, plain and simple.).
There isn't any real excuse for breaking the law, and making exceptions to the laws because of someone's situation basically degrades the law into being completely useless.
Killing in this country over injuring them is ideal, as you would be sued for shooting them in the end.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now I'm convinced that you're just trolling.
Unfortunately, the lesson he taught them is "bring an assault rifle and shoot first."
Unfortunately, the lesson he taught them is "bring an assault rifle and shoot first."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->They definitely lost the game of life.
<img src="http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/The-Game-Of-Life-From-iFone-2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
No, that's what makes it funny!
only when they rotsky it.
>_>
<_<
*innocent whistle*