Laser Weapon, actual proposal
StixNStonz
Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">My little photoshop image got me thinking. Check the balance.</div>The post i made with that photoshopped Laser Weapon actually got me thinking: there's tons of ways you could implement and balance a laser weapon.
NOTE: This is a FULL PROPOSAL. I've covered just about every facet of how this addition would interact with the economy, teamplay dynamics, the weapon's balance of power, hive attacks, chamber attacks, and lifeform attacks. Everything is up for debate, of course.
One weapon dynamic i've always loved (but found overused) is the ability to see and shoot through walls. So here would be my take on implementing that in a balanced way;
-Add a Proto upgrade for 20 res called Laser Technology; 1/2 the tech time of JP.
-Add the Laser weapon for 25 res
-Add Laser Capacitator upgrade to Proto (required Laser Tech) for 10 res (explain further on), slightly longer tech time than Laser Tech
<u><b>Functionality:</u></b>
-When held, the weapon has a bright red blinking light on the back to help the aliens notice it
-Weapon has 5 shots, can't be refilled (capacitator upgrade boosts this to 10)
-Marine has to not move for 1 second to be able to zoom in (if there is an alt-fire it would be this, if not, you could do it other ways)
-Once zoomed in, the forward and back keys zoom in and out, slowly
-The zoom creeps forward; it can see through walls, but it only has a 'sight' of about 10 feet. Meaning, if you went through a wall and there was an RT 20 feet further away, you wouldnt see it until you zoomed another 10 feet; once you zoom past the RT it disappears. Would require coding that used FOV, sight distance, and switching the player's view to an entity that moves away from the player yet rotates around the player (this would give the proper effect)
-Structures show up as bright red; lifeforms show up as less saturated red
-Marine holding the weapon HAS to be zoomed in to fire
-Once he picks his target, he holds attack while it charges for 2 seconds and then fires (can NOT be aborted, and his reticle-turn-speed is very low during this
-Weapon CAN NOT HIT what it doesn't see in its view; i.e. a player cant just aim at an rt through a wall without seeing it in his scope; Laser won't go that far. (encourages proper use)
-Weapon does 400 Damage (can be subject to discussion), with 2.5X damage multiplier to buildings.
<u><b>Reason behind damage:</u></b>
---This is a Proto tech weapon, with very significant vulnerabilities, very slow fire (think of all the steps to actually firing, and add them together, makes about 10 seconds per shot, not counting extended target searching or waiting for a good shot), so it'll come later in the game (but can be rushed, like JP) and cost a lot
---USE AGAINST LIFEFORMS: At 400 damage, it could only kill a rather wounded Fade, and a VERY wounded onos. It would take a skilled and very patient laser operator to get either of these lifeforms at those moments of vulnerability, but it could be done. Smart aliens would call it out when they see one on the field (hence the bright light on the weapon), and lifeforms would make more attempts to be constantly on the move; doing so would almost guarantee not being hit, given the way the proposed weapon fires.
Note: This weapon would be very effective at killing Hive Gorges, on top or below. IMO that would be a fantastic use for the weapon. Also, against camping lerks, whose Umbra is already slightly unbalanced when used well.
---USE AGAINST HIVES: 400 * 2.5 = 1000 damage. Hives have 7000 (im pretty sure, might be 8). One laser could NOT take down the hive without the Capacitator upgrade, which itself takes a long time to upgrade. Even so, to actually shoot all of those laser shots would take multiple minutes in itself. In essence, you could not use the Laser to kill a hive by itself, unless perhaps you did some insane Laser Rush by having your whole team defend 3 guys with lasers. THAT would be cool. But very expensive, and those 3 marines would be extremely vulnerable; IMO it would be VERY difficult to pull off.
---USE AGAINST CHAMBERS: Most chambers are roughly, if not exactly 1000 hp (i think only DC is more). Hence, a Laser would take most out with one hit, possibly multiple if they were lined up (perhaps have the laser's damage fall off as it goes through structures). Hence, it would be well worth it to drop the occasional Laser to specifically attempt to take out chambers. Again, the player would be very vulnerable, and it would take a long time to fire each shot, but you could also hit chambers hidden in vents (which in the current NS, are only accessible via boosted marine (if possible), siege or gl (depending on location)). Personally I would drop a laser during a siege to specifically prioritize the DCs first, then the Gorges, and then the Hive, if they're still alive or have shots remaining.
In other words, the Laser would be a Support weapon. You would do a normal siege or rush, but have the Laser guy holding back to help. It would terrify the aliens, mostly due to the 'always potentially being in the scope' feeling, not from actual raw power. It would take skill to use well, and would take even more skill to be worth a decisive sway in the game, considering the significant cost investment. It would also be fantastic for some odd jobs that marines have difficulty with currently (how do you get at an SC chamber in Triad Vent? You CAN get a boost, which is hard on pubs, but then you're stuck). Laser kills on higher life forms would be cause for pure celebration on the marines' part, and for utter shame on the alien's.
I would personally love to see this new high-tech offering in NS2. It would add a whole new dimension of gameplay to the game.
Thoughts?
NOTE: This is a FULL PROPOSAL. I've covered just about every facet of how this addition would interact with the economy, teamplay dynamics, the weapon's balance of power, hive attacks, chamber attacks, and lifeform attacks. Everything is up for debate, of course.
One weapon dynamic i've always loved (but found overused) is the ability to see and shoot through walls. So here would be my take on implementing that in a balanced way;
-Add a Proto upgrade for 20 res called Laser Technology; 1/2 the tech time of JP.
-Add the Laser weapon for 25 res
-Add Laser Capacitator upgrade to Proto (required Laser Tech) for 10 res (explain further on), slightly longer tech time than Laser Tech
<u><b>Functionality:</u></b>
-When held, the weapon has a bright red blinking light on the back to help the aliens notice it
-Weapon has 5 shots, can't be refilled (capacitator upgrade boosts this to 10)
-Marine has to not move for 1 second to be able to zoom in (if there is an alt-fire it would be this, if not, you could do it other ways)
-Once zoomed in, the forward and back keys zoom in and out, slowly
-The zoom creeps forward; it can see through walls, but it only has a 'sight' of about 10 feet. Meaning, if you went through a wall and there was an RT 20 feet further away, you wouldnt see it until you zoomed another 10 feet; once you zoom past the RT it disappears. Would require coding that used FOV, sight distance, and switching the player's view to an entity that moves away from the player yet rotates around the player (this would give the proper effect)
-Structures show up as bright red; lifeforms show up as less saturated red
-Marine holding the weapon HAS to be zoomed in to fire
-Once he picks his target, he holds attack while it charges for 2 seconds and then fires (can NOT be aborted, and his reticle-turn-speed is very low during this
-Weapon CAN NOT HIT what it doesn't see in its view; i.e. a player cant just aim at an rt through a wall without seeing it in his scope; Laser won't go that far. (encourages proper use)
-Weapon does 400 Damage (can be subject to discussion), with 2.5X damage multiplier to buildings.
<u><b>Reason behind damage:</u></b>
---This is a Proto tech weapon, with very significant vulnerabilities, very slow fire (think of all the steps to actually firing, and add them together, makes about 10 seconds per shot, not counting extended target searching or waiting for a good shot), so it'll come later in the game (but can be rushed, like JP) and cost a lot
---USE AGAINST LIFEFORMS: At 400 damage, it could only kill a rather wounded Fade, and a VERY wounded onos. It would take a skilled and very patient laser operator to get either of these lifeforms at those moments of vulnerability, but it could be done. Smart aliens would call it out when they see one on the field (hence the bright light on the weapon), and lifeforms would make more attempts to be constantly on the move; doing so would almost guarantee not being hit, given the way the proposed weapon fires.
Note: This weapon would be very effective at killing Hive Gorges, on top or below. IMO that would be a fantastic use for the weapon. Also, against camping lerks, whose Umbra is already slightly unbalanced when used well.
---USE AGAINST HIVES: 400 * 2.5 = 1000 damage. Hives have 7000 (im pretty sure, might be 8). One laser could NOT take down the hive without the Capacitator upgrade, which itself takes a long time to upgrade. Even so, to actually shoot all of those laser shots would take multiple minutes in itself. In essence, you could not use the Laser to kill a hive by itself, unless perhaps you did some insane Laser Rush by having your whole team defend 3 guys with lasers. THAT would be cool. But very expensive, and those 3 marines would be extremely vulnerable; IMO it would be VERY difficult to pull off.
---USE AGAINST CHAMBERS: Most chambers are roughly, if not exactly 1000 hp (i think only DC is more). Hence, a Laser would take most out with one hit, possibly multiple if they were lined up (perhaps have the laser's damage fall off as it goes through structures). Hence, it would be well worth it to drop the occasional Laser to specifically attempt to take out chambers. Again, the player would be very vulnerable, and it would take a long time to fire each shot, but you could also hit chambers hidden in vents (which in the current NS, are only accessible via boosted marine (if possible), siege or gl (depending on location)). Personally I would drop a laser during a siege to specifically prioritize the DCs first, then the Gorges, and then the Hive, if they're still alive or have shots remaining.
In other words, the Laser would be a Support weapon. You would do a normal siege or rush, but have the Laser guy holding back to help. It would terrify the aliens, mostly due to the 'always potentially being in the scope' feeling, not from actual raw power. It would take skill to use well, and would take even more skill to be worth a decisive sway in the game, considering the significant cost investment. It would also be fantastic for some odd jobs that marines have difficulty with currently (how do you get at an SC chamber in Triad Vent? You CAN get a boost, which is hard on pubs, but then you're stuck). Laser kills on higher life forms would be cause for pure celebration on the marines' part, and for utter shame on the alien's.
I would personally love to see this new high-tech offering in NS2. It would add a whole new dimension of gameplay to the game.
Thoughts?
Comments
- The weapon firing is too slow. 10 seconds in a game as fast-paced as NS... would render the weapon useles..
- The aiming/firing/hitting only targets that are in scope, okay, but what about targets even in between the beam and the actual target? Die too?
- What would the range be? If it's not like 50% of the map (which would suck since you'd be able to "siege" hives from anywhere), then it'd be useless yet again, because of the short range.
- It's very, very expensive to buy, why buy a weapon that not many marines will like to use, which can only help in very rare, specific situations and that is very risky to use (the operator's a sitting duck).
All together, this plan would result in a very, very weak weapon which nobody would fear. You know how it gets when a pack of aliens attack a band of marines, they get around everywhere and will surely reach any laser operators if nearby. (can you say cele skulk?)
I'd say give it some more thought, I do like the general idea of some "sort" of portable siege weapon, with which you can achieve things you speak of, it's just not refined enough yet.
It would be a niche, being able to see an onos comming from arround a corner and charging up - the onos if careless and deaf would walk into the line of fire and get vaporised or at least be on 10% or less hp.
I dont think it should slow the movement of vision while firing if it is unable to cancel the shot, because if your primary target goes out of sight you will probably want to at least use it on a secondary target like a structure or additional target that comes into view.
Also seeing that fades blink slightly removes them from phase with the current dimension (or something) maybe a silence upgraded fade would be a good counter for someone using the gun to hunt onos, as if they are scoped the fade could blink in without being heard and not being able to be seen on the scope.
I dunno probably abit OP but it would be neat.
Now that i think of it, it would likely be more around 5-7 seconds. A player would get to his location, stop moving whole holding alt (1 second); then he would spend 3-5 seconds zooming through the walls until he finds a target; then two seconds to fire. I DID lower it to 1 second of non-moving to be able to zoom; that should help. With that, it would be 6-8 seconds given those parameters.
Keep in mind, you're talking about a weapon that goes through walls. Take West Core siege in Eclipse. A GLer trying to hit the hive would have to spend about 7 seconds running from the PG to within sight of the hive, then another 3 seconds to shoot all his grenades, and then he'd be extremely vulnerable while he reloaded (and likely ran away). All for the damage damage as one laser shot (although the GL would also have all of the area damage).
You would need to implement a cooldown of 3-5 seconds on the weapon, or perhaps a 'de-zooming' after firing, so a player cant just unleash laser after laser. But it would still be a very useful form of attack, imo.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The aiming/firing/hitting only targets that are in scope, okay, but what about targets even in between the beam and the actual target? Die too?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. I'd see the laser as having a 400 'first hit' damage; perhaps lowered by 25% for each following hit.
Now that i think of it, it would probably be better to be a straight-fire weapon that does hit things past its scope's view, but the damage falls off after its scope's distance significantly.
Though, if you could take a pistol, and you got one shot at a structure through the walls, and you only shot every 10 seconds... how often would something actually be caught in your crossfire? It would depend on the hive of course, but the vast majority of the time, it would just hit its target.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- What would the range be? If it's not like 50% of the map (which would suck since you'd be able to "siege" hives from anywhere), then it'd be useless yet again, because of the short range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd imagine a maximum scope range of perhaps 25-30% farther than siege range. Again, using the West Core siege from Eclipse, i think that the most balanced maximum distance would be at the top of the ramp, a few feet back. That seems to be about 25% farther than siege range.
And keep in mind that it would be very, very difficult to only use lasers to take down a hive. You would pretty much need two, at least, and that is extremely costly, late in the game, and vulnerable. Two laser guys would need a whole lot of cover.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- It's very, very expensive to buy, why buy a weapon that not many marines will like to use, which can only help in very rare, specific situations and that is very risky to use (the operator's a sitting duck).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It IS expensive, but the benefit would outweigh the cost in the proper hands.
I mentioned that Laser Tech would be 20 res, and each would cost 25 res. Perhaps Laser Tech could be 30 instead, but we'll keep 20 for now.
What are the other proto techs? HA costs 40 res, and each HA costs 15. The cost of getting your very first HA would be equal to getting a Laser weapon and a shotty, or perhaps a pack of mines would be better. Can a single HA sway a battle? Perhaps, but we all know that HA are far better in packs. Can a single Laser weapon sway a battle? If used right, i think absolutely. Especially on chambers, hive gorges, getting that last extra damage on a hive, or even helping take out a node.
Then there's JP. 45 res to tech, and 10 apiece. Your first JP is the same as a laser and mines; will a jp sway a battle? In the best of hands, there's a damn good chance. In most hands, he'll probably just die.
Laser Tech would be yet another equally viable route for a commander to take, and it would yield far different results, as well as gameplay. Would it replace JP or HA? Hells no. Just like how the HMG doesnt 'replace' the SG. Both have their merits, as well as costs.
Both HA or JP could use the Laser, though they would be bound by the same restrictions. A JP wth the laser would be kind of stupid, whereas an HA with laser would have a much better chance of getting his shots off.
1) It makes sieging more vunerable, but promotes more teamwork to take down a hive.
2) It places the responsibility in the hands of the "marine" to do the work, not the commander.
There could also be a link between these laser weapons and the comm. If a marine is in range of the structure/player caught in a ping, the "zoom" automatically focuses on what the commander selects. This allows marines less time in finging the target, but still requires players to make all the decisions (fire, move, abort, whatever.)
I dunno, I have a one track mind when it comes to stuff required to take down a hive/structures. The only time I could see a laser like this useful is if there's a WoL in the team's way, and most of the current weapons can rid that problem pretty quickly as-is.
I tried to balance it out so lasers would mostly be supporting either a rush or a siege (just like how a siege often supports a rush). The way the idea fleshed out, Lasers would have their own entire tactical use. And a laser rush WOULD be pretty freaking cool.
A new means of attacking the hive would, in my opinion, add more to the game. (I'm sort of just spurting off whatever comes to mind right now, sorry). I don't see this being over used (in a bad sense that it becomes the normal strat.) because of its high cost... I'd think it would be worth testing to get a better feel for it. However, maybe because I used to what the game has now, but I feel it is missing something, but I'm not sure what.
I think that you have to become aware of people blasting apart RT's too, stix. RT's are the lifeblood of the alien game, and if a person can just kill them from a central thingy in the middle of the map by walking a few feet and blasting away, then that's not very cool. I'd give the laser the ability to burn through -2- walls, unless the laser is pointed toward the outside limits or whatever. I'd also give RT's and chambers 1.5x defense against lasers hitting them just because chambers and RT's are big blobby things, and I personally don't think that A) a single laser beam is going to kill a chamber or rt and B) I think it's the lamest thing on earth that one laser-wielding guy can take out chambers from a far distance away without any sort of delay time (sieges took the TF to upgrade 30 seconds).
The laser needs to be made so that it doesn't become a BFG-doom type of weapon that annihilates everything. Zooming in through walls and stuff...wow, that's awesome, but think about all the CS players who would love to snipe injured fades through walls or one-shotting chambers throughout the entire map--not to mention one-shotting lerks. Lerks need to have an innate resistance to lasers so that they don't get one-shotted. Sure, you can kill them when they're injured, but if they're at full health sitting in a vent sporing then I don't think it'd be very nice or pleasant or -fun- to get one-shotted.
The laser could also be used as a team-wall-hack, so you'd need to limit the radius, scope and range of the weapon.
So in conclusion this post says: 1) Laser only goes through 2 walls max 2) chambers and rt's have 1.5x defense against lasers and 3) laser zoom locks 2 seconds before firing (but you can still aim it) 4) lerk needs to be able to live through a single shot of the laser 5) one would need to limit the radius, scope and range of the laser so that it is not used as an all-seeing team-wall-hack.
<u>Against RTs:</u>
There are a few things that should be considered here as well, imo. RTs have significantly more health than chambers; they have 2500 hp, compared to SC, MC, DC's being 800, 1000, and 1200 respectively.
If the laser was kept at 1000 damage against structures (and this would not be affected by damage upgrades, like the knife), then it would take 3 full shots to kill an RT. Keep in mind a few things here:
(1) The first shot takes the longest, but if the player stays zoomed in, repeated shots are quicker [though you could make the player have to repeat the zooming in for each shot]), meaning that it would take ~20-30 seconds to pull off all 3 shots. [there are
Given all these obstacles for a laser-wielding marine to overcome (and hence for the team as a whole to overcome), I believe that taking out RTs with the laser would be <u>fairly balanced</u>.
Consider the comparative way to take out RTs. You could just drop one SG, and have the shotgunner hit the node for roughly 20 seconds, maybe with one LMG to cover him. He'd have a pretty good chance of taking out any non-hive node, if they could get into that position.
A Laser taking out the same node would cost A LOT more; SGs cost 10 res, can be done from the very beginning of the game or at the very end. The proposed laser requires an AA, Proto, Laser Upgrade, and the laser weapon itself, which is set at 25 res in this proposal.
In the specific scenario here, of taking out this RT, it would be costing the marines all that much more res, to be able to take out that same RT from a safer distance, while incurring all those obstacles previously mentioned.
Even setting up a single siege cannon to take out this RT would cost far less in terms of res as well as time (since this can be done early game as well), while only really suffering from 25% less range than the laser. Plus it would not require ammo expenditure, nor leave any marines vulnerable after the structures are built.
I also believe that the 2-wall-max is unnecessary. Sieges dont have a max penetration, and it would greatly hamper them if they did. Many more complications would arise from this as well, such as detail geometry stopping a laser from even exiting the current room. There are other methods of nerfing the laser if need be; perhaps it cannot work in lerk gas, or is affected by Umbra.
<u>Against Chambers:</u>
As mentioned, the health of SC, MC and DC chambers are 800, 1000, and 1200.
As such, the Laser would be able to take out SCs and MCs in one shot, and bring DCs down to 200 hp.
Being a Proto weapon, and the *only* devised proto weapon so far, you'd hope that it would be comparable in power to other expensive weapons, and perhaps slightly more powerful, yet of course with its own dynamics and vulnerabilities.
The GL is the obvious comparison here. Costing 15 res and requiring an AA, the GL operator is very vulnerable to attack, though not as vulnerable as a laser operator would be. Not just because the GL has a chance of killing skulks with off-the-wall bounces or even direct hits (while the Laser has no chance of this), but even because the Laser must be zoomed in to fire. This leaves the operator completely helpless to any attacks on his person, whereas the GLer can at least still look around. Of course, the GLer must get significantly closer to his target (a minimum of one around-the-corner away, otherwise direct sight).
Furthermore, the GL is affected by upgrades (so at D3 can take out DCs with one volley, and ESPECIALLY, the GL has area damage. Meaning a solid volley can take out not just the DCs, but also most of the chambers around it, along with all that damage to any lifeforms, gorges and even the hive.
The Laser would be a far more precise weapon, and should reap the benefits of such. It SHOULD be able to take out most chambers with one hit; the only ones it could not, would be DCs. It SHOULD be able to take out unmoving gorges, as well as lerks. Use the GL comparison against lerks and you'll see what i mean; GL has a damn good chance of killing a vent lerk. The Laser? It would have an even better chance, assuming the lerk wasn't on 'laserguard', i.e. moving continually. [If i was a lerk and knew a laser was being used, I would try to continually move about]. The nerf to the laser, where its aiming freedom is significantly lowered during the 2 seconds of build-up to the fire, helps balance it out significantly here. This is also why i added in that once a build-up to fire is started, it HAS to fire. The case where the operator would want to cancel the fire is the case where the target has moved, and he is going to miss. By forcing the Laser to fire regardless, the target will likely be given warning, not to mention one HELL of a scare.
Hence, after all this, I think the Laser's ability to take out chambers in one hit would be fair and balanced.
<u>Used as a wall-hack.</u>
This is why i specified the scope's function. It would zoom in through walls, but it would be limited to a sight range of about 10 feet. If you can see an RT from 4 feet away, you cant see past 6 feet past the rt, nor any objects OR walls between the operator and the beginning of the zoom (in this example, its 4 feet in front of the RT).
You would also want to make sure the scope can't be used to spot for sieges. Or, maybe it can... thats up for debate.
But basically, an operator COULD spot things in the room; but I doubt anyone would ever even consider it. Given the ease of which the comm can scan, or a marine can pop in and check it out, or even if your team has Motion Tracking... any of those things would do the job just as well, if not better. Plus, the Laser Operator is vulnerable enough as it is when he's zoomed in, and the gun itself is so expensive; you only want him hitting targets.
Just to clarify another point you made, MasterPTG; you said that the laser zoom needs to lock 2 seconds before firing. If you looked at the original proposal, I said that once you fire, it takes 2 seconds to 'build-up' and then fire. During this time, the zoom IS locked, and the operator's aiming speed is GREATLY reduced; he can only make very slight adjustments, maybe about 2 inches on his screen. PLUS, the weapons WILL fire; he cant abort once he's started the build-up. This would solve almost all of those too-powerful scenarios, leaving behind victims (fades, onos, whatever) in situations where they deserved it, either by being too uninformed, or be being targeted by an *actually* skilled laser operator, or by simply awesome luck.
@ Yoda:
Hehe, here ya go.
<u>Catalysts:</u>
No effect. Would be unbalancing. Imagine if a siege cannon could use a cata? Its insane enough already that SGers can be cata'd against RTs (which is why i find it so strange that i'm practically the only comm to ever get Cats in early game). Laser Operators would still have the movement speed benefits, when unzoomed, of course.
<u>Vs Onos</u>:
No, no boost against Onos. As it is, onos are massive targets, and often dont move much when they have a wall between them and marines (are healing, etc), hence they would naturally be a viable target for a skilled Laser Operator trying to give the onos that final tap as it runs away from MS. But 400 damage is enough already, and its really not the planned use of the gun.
<u>With JP</u>: Absolutely not. The operator has to be on the ground, not moving for a second before he can even zoom in.
<u>Charge Noise</u>:
Yepper. Plus, a loud shot noise, and a bright red beam that goes through a ton of walls; hence it'll definitely be noticed by any aliens nearby. As soon as they realize there's a laser out there, all smart aliens would start making sure that they're always on the move.
But basically, this weapon is NOT intended to kill the larger lifeforms. It can definitely do some serious damage to them if they're not careful, but even that is less than a full LMG clip. Its main purpose is as a tactical, precise, anti-structure weapon.
(sidethought):
---Possible Nerf: If for any reason the Laser if found to be too powerful, an easy nerf would be to have it not be operational in Lerk Gas.
Keep the comments coming guys. I'm trying to really, really flesh out this idea in the hopes of it getting into NS2 and being a valuable addition. Anything can change in this proposal; lets just debate everything rationally. Great discussions so far! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
It could work, the comm has a choice to drop siege turrets that the marines have to build or siege weapons they have to fire.
As you may have gathered I favor it as an offensive weapon more than an anti-structure weapon. I feel that sieges and grenade launchers/catalyst shotguns fill the niche of structure annihilation.
But a veteran team (i.e. a team thats past the 'omg lasers lets all use them!' phase, and actually understands how they're properly used) would probably never use them instead of sieges. I'd picture them much more as siege support weapons; killing the lerks, hive gorges, perhaps some chambers and definitely on the hive.
Although it sounds like they could be used by themselves to take out a hive, it would be a difficult goal to achieve. Being a Proto tech, it would be rather late in the game (almost surely at least 2 hives up). And unless it was REALLY late in the game, laser tech would actually be replacing HA or JP for a good while.
And even then, you would need at least 2 lasers to do the job. Thats 50 res right there, plus you'd need at least one HMG to defend them.
They would have 10 shots between them; 8 would be needed to kill the hive (7000 hp + regen).
If there was any number of gorges, the hive would live; of course, the Lasers could try to take them out and have a good chance at it. But with only 2 Lasers, they probably could not afford to spend the ammo.
So really, a solid laser siegeing of a hive would have a lot better chance of working if there were 3 lasers; but now the price rises to 75 res just for the guns, plus you have yet another highly-vulnerable marine to protect.
This would give reason for the comm to get the Laser Capacitator upgrade (doubles their ammo), which has the drawback of a long tech time (maybe up the cost to 15 or 20).
Plus, if this new weapon was playtested and found to be too powerful, a great way to nerf it would be to make it nonoperational in Spore gas. Taking the West Core siege again, a lerk would definitely be able to get in the vent and toss out enough gas to really, really annoy the laser operators, to the point where they would likely start hunting the lerk through the walls and spending their precious ammo. It would be a really dynamic and fun way to nerf the weapon; but i'd suggest only planning on doing so should it turn out to be unbalanced without this nerf.
But basically, this would be a siege support weapon. Assuming the comm tries the 'best' strat rather than whatever he feels like (or can only afford); its best to have both HA and JP, because they complement each other so well, but that costs res and either of them alone CAN do the job. Sieges alone could do the job, but a single laser in the proper hands would be worth the investment, imo.
I would foresee only one laser being on the ground at a time, and the comm would ALWAYS be careful with who got it. I'd task him to prioritize the gassing Lerks if any of our positions are being gassed constantly; or prioritize the hive gorges if we're sieging; or otherwise search or chambers or support marines who are taking out rts.
Many sieges in the late game work, and many dont. If the laser wasnt implemented, those 50-75 res would be spent on more siege cannons, HA, more HMGs, etc.
This would give the comm a new option; to be able to spend that much res on one (or maybe two) awesome weapons that could really, really support a siege. Almost all failed sieges are due to a lerk gassing the siege and umbra'ing the hive (during the rushing part), or from hive gorges healing. The laser would be a well-balanced counter to both of those (since the only counter right now is GL's, and they have their own drawbacks, as well as benefits).
So while this proposed laser would really help with siegeing, it would not be a 'game ending' weapon as all. The high cost of the tech and the weapons themselves could otherwise be put into more equipment, which in many cases could be better for taking out the hive.
one question - what would the alt-fire be? flayra has already confirmed that all weapons in NS2 will have an alt-fire. rather than having a generic "butt-stock whack" alt-fire, any good ideas to take advantage of the laser weapon's capabilities?
the only idea i can think of is that of the shock rifle in Unreal Tournament - in my opinion the best laser weapon ever put in a game, simply because you could combine alt-fire with normal fire to create a very large kaboom =)
if thats the case why cant zoom just be built into normal fire?
press fire, it zooms in, wait 2 secs.... ZAP!
another good alt-fire weapon i saw the other day was in resistance - fall of man. one of the guns has an alt-fire where it projects a transerent energy shield that you can shoot through, but deflects any bullets being fired at you, looked pretty cool, and was very useful.
press fire, it zooms in, wait 2 secs.... ZAP!
another good alt-fire weapon i saw the other day was in resistance - fall of man. one of the guns has an alt-fire where it projects a transparent energy shield that you can shoot through, but deflects any bullets being fired at you, looked pretty cool, and was very useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be a cool feature, although I don't know if you should be able to shoot through it. Either that or it could be like Dune where the slow skulk penetrates the shield. That way lone lasers wouldn't be able to hold off aliens, just slow them down.
Take any siege, and add in two fully suited Heavies or Jetpacks.
Comparison: The exact same siege, Without the two fully suited HA or JP, but with one Laser, who also is one less 'regular gun' (i.e. the fade will have one less opponent ON TOP OF the two less fully equipped HA or JP).
IMO thats quite a balance potential. I say 'potential' because you never know until you try, but from all this debate, is sure seems like it would be worthwhile. Hand Grenades were probably the most controversial thing ever, and did take some time to balance, but my god did they add a lot to the game.
if it to strong, here are some suggestions:
you can (the operator) not see still standing or simple alienlifeforms (simple forms are skulks and lerks)
as addition to the loud noise can you see a weak laser dot/trazer (when the operator zoom)
This has probably been mentioned, but a basis for not having laser weapons in the future is that they're not (yet) efficient, neither at killing nor input/output-wise, at least for the common soldier. I can see it used in say anti-ballistic missile systems, but again, projectiles are likely more efficient, despite being 'loaded' rather than 'charged'.
shockwave?
how can a noise/quake/a thing
damage plants and mashrooms?
The idea as it is proposed is essentially a rail gun, IMHO a laser is incapable of piercing walls, but micro-meteors are able to, even with their small mass but with sufficient inertia will just pass through objects. Why anyone would want to fire something like that in a space station or planetary colony is beyond me, who knows what the side effects could be, you certainly wouldn't want to accidentally open up a gravitational worm hole.
I am sure a focused beam could create plasma out of some surfaces it transfers energy to really fast ... wonder what kind of chain reaction that would create...
IMHO, Lasers should be used for targeting , line of sight communications, and perhaps as part of a energy transfer, say like the welder spewing out the nanites needed for its job, the programing for the nano-bots, and the energy needed through wireless transmission, but if any sodderng or cutting was needed, a laser as a part of it would come in handy. Heck, you could probably burn graffiti on a wall with a laser too, if you just didn't want display a holographic image on it, like a projector. Laser scanners are awfully useful in line of sight applications.
Well, I suppose a laser weapon for the marine's might work if the wanted to burn the flesh of a Kharaa, though I suppose unless the Kharaa was really close it wouldn't burn through them, the the more distance between the atmosphere would end up difusing a bit of the energy, plus a spore or umbra cloud, even smoke or steam, or liquids would really difuse it some and solid objects might have some smoke come off them as you burn the material... You would probably have to hold a laser on a target that is at distance for some time in just about the exact same spot for it to be at all effective. And if the enemy you combat lasers with has any kind of heat or energy shielding at all, the laser weapon is going to be very ineffective.
Basicly, if you think about it, NS1 already had lasers, we just didn't have any except perhaps the welder for a bit there that did any damage. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
So, as far as the rail gun goes that was proposed, I'd rather just find a use for the current siege cannon as a way of making it mobile, possible even handing it over to a marine to push or pull or giving it some robotic tracks for locomotion. Also tweak the siege cannon further with the use of indirect artillery fire by Commander and direct artillery fire when a Marine laser targets, and you'll definitely have something that does what the rail gun does with the same vulnerabilities but without replacing or effectively obsoleting current methods.