But the same holds true for aliens as well... if you have one person who can actually think and people listen to him, the alien team can do pretty well.
<!--quoteo(post=1653222:date=Sep 30 2007, 11:53 PM:name=Golden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Golden @ Sep 30 2007, 11:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653222"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spawn camping is part of the game. If a marine sneaks into your hive and is able to spawn camp you, your team deserves to lose. Med spamming by the commander has nothing to do with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious what game have you been playing. Yes spawn camping can happen but it isn't a intended part of the game, obviously a heap of people in your spawn is fine, campping your already dead if they have struggled to lock you in. But when your entire team is camped by one person due to god like medding. It's wrong.
Any skilled Marine can get into your spawn and unless you have Sc's or scent of fear its completely possible and rather easy, Aliens move around so loud with sirens on they head saying I am here, I am here, duck into that vent now to hide so I go past and don't notice you. /sarcasm Its so easy to dodge aliens when your a TSA marine that Carry's a huge gun a ###### ton of ammo 30 kg of weight on your back running in general purpose boots across steel grilling AND YOU DON'T MAKE A SOUND like a ninja on crack.
Fair enough a alien spots you if he doesn't report it and no other alien spots or hears you. Yeah grates to you, communication failed this kharaa team. However you can get into a hive by jumping OC's spammed with meds hide to let and avoid patrols and the whole time your doing this run you don't make a sound. great game balance their.
As per your same with aliens comment if one guy thinks and others listen.
IF IF others listen the moment one man goes against the grain, guess what he can its completely in his power to as its his res pool, it maybe the teams res pool but he is the only one with access to that portion of it. so there for it completely isn't the same as letting one brain do all the work, were he can open doors to those that listen to better their survival rate or close doors to those useless asses being annoying or not working as a team.
Well I can say Marines do make noise. I don't know if it is the same as a skulk but you do hear thier boots hitting the deck as they move unless they are walking which I find is rare. Now yes Kahraa do need teamwork to get by, not the end of the world but it makes a heck of a difference if the team works as a group. Yes a half dozen skulks all hitting RT's on thier own can make a world of trouble because the Marines have to respond to so many places at once and defend against all the rest of the Kahraa. However it works better if all the team moves as a group but that is true of both sides.
Yes it helps if you have a leader, now the Marines have one designated as the Comm from the beginning so that is a boost. The kahraa have to hope someone speaks up enough about what should be done and actually do it. Yes that is a downside but it is how they are setup. Now having someone jump into a hive to work as the "hive mind" would perhapes balance things but would be rather boring as all they would do is give commands.
Spawn camping is weak but there is not much you can do about it. Yes Marines will always be able to jump OC's (probably unless they make them larger I suppose) but that is just how it is. I would prefer it was not so as having one guy ninja a hive and camp it takes a lot out of the game but it's there and it can be tactically advantages for the Marines. Regardless it's something both sides have to concern themselves with however the Marines always have someone in base (Comm) should it come up. However I have seen the kahraa rush a base as a team and win like that by camping it waiting for the team to return or beacon. Just how it goes sometimes.
When I go aliens I have to start as a weak annoying skulk, do a bunch of crap for my team, make sure marines don't get into our internal bases, and then go either drop the hive and have no change to my class ever or go fade and have MASSIVE pressure to not die.
When I go marines I get to own weak lifeforms, get deep into enemy territory and set up shop, make high risk moves with no incredible sense of cost if I fail, and then hopefully get a gun and make some sucker fade pay for trying to help his team.
Simply put, there is no balance issue, marines certainly aren't overpowered, they are just more satisfying to play the majority of the time.
[edit] Reading this thread is like getting eye cancer. Seriously, there is not small feature change that is going to change the way the game works, it's not marine noise, it's not gun RoF, it's not some thing that tweaking stats or features can change. When you have a melee attacker VS a ranged attacker, whenever the ranged guy is able to choose the location of a battle he will, and SHOULD win, if that isn't the case then he is underpowered beyond belief. Because the ranged attacker can hit the melee attacker from any place he has LoS to, if he chooses a location where he has far LoS, he always has an advantage. The consequence is that because we can't allow marines to choose the optimum place to fight all the time, we MUST have them as the offensive party so they are FORCED to go into places that the aliens have an advantage. Right there is the problem, it's funner to be offensive than it is to be forced to be defensive. It's not really a fixable problem, it's just the way the game works. Strategies to downscale it involve changing the way marines take/lose ground, which is certainly very possible, but is NOT changing a few little variables.
<!--quoteo(post=1653967:date=Oct 4 2007, 04:38 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Oct 4 2007, 04:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I go aliens I have to start as a weak annoying skulk, do a bunch of crap for my team, make sure marines don't get into our internal bases, and then go either drop the hive and have no change to my class ever or go fade and have MASSIVE pressure to not die.
When I go marines I get to own weak lifeforms, get deep into enemy territory and set up shop, make high risk moves with no incredible sense of cost if I fail, and then hopefully get a gun and make some sucker fade pay for trying to help his team.
Simply put, there is no balance issue, marines certainly aren't overpowered, they are just more satisfying to play the majority of the time.
[edit] Reading this thread is like getting eye cancer. Seriously, there is not small feature change that is going to change the way the game works, it's not marine noise, it's not gun RoF, it's not some thing that tweaking stats or features can change. When you have a melee attacker VS a ranged attacker, whenever the ranged guy is able to choose the location of a battle he will, and SHOULD win, if that isn't the case then he is underpowered beyond belief. Because the ranged attacker can hit the melee attacker from any place he has LoS to, if he chooses a location where he has far LoS, he always has an advantage. The consequence is that because we can't allow marines to choose the optimum place to fight all the time, we MUST have them as the offensive party so they are FORCED to go into places that the aliens have an advantage. Right there is the problem, it's funner to be offensive than it is to be forced to be defensive. It's not really a fixable problem, it's just the way the game works. Strategies to downscale it involve changing the way marines take/lose ground, which is certainly very possible, but is NOT changing a few little variables.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens aren't weak at all. Its the immensely idiotic dumbfounded pub players who make them 'weak'. Surely hitting an object going 100 speed in a straight line is much easier than hitting someone bouncing around and bunnyhopping at 500 speed. Which is about how 99.99% of every single public server out there goes. Marines are so much easier because you know 99.99% of those players don't ambush or if they do they spin their mouse in 15 circles missing every single bite.
Aliens for me are probably the funnest thing to play when at least 1 other player out of 15 you have know how to play. Which in fact rarely ever happens. I and others could keep going on and on about this crap but it will fall on deaf ear. Reading half these posts in here hurt the brain.
<!--quoteo(post=1653967:date=Oct 4 2007, 09:38 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Oct 4 2007, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I go aliens I have to start as a weak annoying skulk, do a bunch of crap for my team, make sure marines don't get into our internal bases, and then go either drop the hive and have no change to my class ever or go fade and have MASSIVE pressure to not die.
When I go marines I get to own weak lifeforms, get deep into enemy territory and set up shop, make high risk moves with no incredible sense of cost if I fail, and then hopefully get a gun and make some sucker fade pay for trying to help his team.
Simply put, there is no balance issue, marines certainly aren't overpowered, they are just more satisfying to play the majority of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1652269:date=Sep 26 2007, 12:54 PM:name=DRagon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRagon @ Sep 26 2007, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1652269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->we need more atmosphere in the game obvioulsy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not going to happen because competitive gamers will just cry like prostitutes and escorts and whine for fullbright maps back again. Atmosphere in NS was over as soon as 2.0 kicked off.
<!--quoteo(post=1654051:date=Oct 4 2007, 07:16 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Oct 4 2007, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not going to happen because competitive gamers will just cry like prostitutes and escorts and whine for fullbright maps back again. Atmosphere in NS was over as soon as 2.0 kicked off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that was sarcastic since im retired ns competitive player if you want some atmopshere i suggest you to play some single player game for example avp, avp is nice in single player but its loler bad in multi same goes for game like fear, anyway multiplayer game is meant to be created for the best gameplay NOT FOR SOME RETARDED GRAPHIC EFFECT. oh and you're the one crying prostitute, im just saying the game is bad and obviously when game is bad you can see dying communities which is a fact as it goes for ns.
The atmosphere in NS never went away, you just got used to it. Try playing HL or Doom 3 for 400+ hours, see if you still feel the atmosphere in those games then. It's still there, it just doesn't effect you any more because you know exactly what to expect.
[edit] That being said, I'm hoping NS2 repairs the problem to some degree with dynamic infestation giving aliens more options with what they do with their own turf. It's going to be hard to get bored of the atmosphere of a game when all of a sudden a room that should look one way is in a totally different set up in nearly every way. Why is my MS all slimy? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=Sep 26 2007, 12:54 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Sep 26 2007, 12:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ot going to happen because competitive gamers will just cry like prostitutes and escorts and whine for fullbright maps back again. Atmosphere in NS was over as soon as 2.0 kicked off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1654065:date=Oct 4 2007, 07:13 PM:name=DRagon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRagon @ Oct 4 2007, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that was sarcastic since im retired ns competitive player if you want some atmopshere i suggest you to play some single player game for example avp, avp is nice in single player but its loler bad in multi same goes for game like fear, anyway multiplayer game is meant to be created for the best gameplay NOT FOR SOME RETARDED GRAPHIC EFFECT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The irony in that post.
A retarded graphic effect? The atmosphere in NS created better and more diverse and challenging gameplay. Competitive players whining for fullbright ruined it and helped bring the player base down with it. Without the atmosphere in NS, it's just another Aliens Vs Humans game.
You're equating darkness to atmosphere, which is somewhere between wrong and stupid.
Doom 3 was never atmospheric, it was just annoying, and that kind of environment has no place in a balanced multiplayer theater anyways. Competitive players never came out against atmosphere, they encouraged mappers to think about the way their lighting effected gameplay, which is something they should be frigging doing. It's bad enough how many failed NS maps we have basically for little errors like that already.
<!--quoteo(post=1654554:date=Oct 7 2007, 07:17 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Oct 7 2007, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654554"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're equating darkness to atmosphere, which is somewhere between wrong and stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks.
Thaldarin, what in your opinion does 'atmosphere' mean? Graphical effects? Gameplay elements?
<!--quoteo(post=1654542:date=Oct 8 2007, 12:37 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Oct 8 2007, 12:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The irony in that post.
A retarded graphic effect? The atmosphere in NS created better and more diverse and challenging gameplay. Competitive players whining for fullbright ruined it and helped bring the player base down with it. Without the atmosphere in NS, it's just another Aliens Vs Humans game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> competitive players have nothing to do with player base going down, it's just bad development from uwe, blaming competitive scene for such a thing means you're nowhere near the truth, gl thou with your reasoning... Yes, atmopshere. make ns darker with milion useless sounds so fana can make another knifegaming pack or nLs pack, most of the ppl use them and they are not always competitive ones. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->atmosphere just gets ######ing old after a week<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades don't get stuck as they used, thus effectively making ladders boring <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1654638:date=Oct 8 2007, 05:32 AM:name=coris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coris @ Oct 8 2007, 05:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades don't get stuck as they used, thus effectively making ladders boring <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> (SUP AA?!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Correction: They still get stuck if their horizontal speed's too low. SUP SEWER HIVE
<!--quoteo(post=1654668:date=Oct 8 2007, 09:36 AM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Oct 8 2007, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654668"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Correction: They still get stuck if their horizontal speed's too low. SUP SEWER HIVE<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They don't get stuck if blink is depressed, and they don't get stuck if their vertical speed exceeds a certain amount. Sewer hive is screwed up because of the lips at the top of the ladder, since you don't use vertical speed to get into the passage way, you have to aim through this obtusely small hole.
Comments
Are you serious what game have you been playing. Yes spawn camping can happen but it isn't a intended part of the game, obviously a heap of people in your spawn is fine, campping your already dead if they have struggled to lock you in. But when your entire team is camped by one person due to god like medding. It's wrong.
Any skilled Marine can get into your spawn and unless you have Sc's or scent of fear its completely possible and rather easy, Aliens move around so loud with sirens on they head saying I am here, I am here, duck into that vent now to hide so I go past and don't notice you. /sarcasm
Its so easy to dodge aliens when your a TSA marine that Carry's a huge gun a ###### ton of ammo 30 kg of weight on your back running in general purpose boots across steel grilling AND YOU DON'T MAKE A SOUND like a ninja on crack.
Fair enough a alien spots you if he doesn't report it and no other alien spots or hears you. Yeah grates to you, communication failed this kharaa team. However you can get into a hive by jumping OC's spammed with meds hide to let and avoid patrols and the whole time your doing this run you don't make a sound. great game balance their.
As per your same with aliens comment if one guy thinks and others listen.
IF IF others listen the moment one man goes against the grain, guess what he can its completely in his power to as its his res pool, it maybe the teams res pool but he is the only one with access to that portion of it. so there for it completely isn't the same as letting one brain do all the work, were he can open doors to those that listen to better their survival rate or close doors to those useless asses being annoying or not working as a team.
Yes it helps if you have a leader, now the Marines have one designated as the Comm from the beginning so that is a boost. The kahraa have to hope someone speaks up enough about what should be done and actually do it. Yes that is a downside but it is how they are setup. Now having someone jump into a hive to work as the "hive mind" would perhapes balance things but would be rather boring as all they would do is give commands.
Spawn camping is weak but there is not much you can do about it. Yes Marines will always be able to jump OC's (probably unless they make them larger I suppose) but that is just how it is. I would prefer it was not so as having one guy ninja a hive and camp it takes a lot out of the game but it's there and it can be tactically advantages for the Marines. Regardless it's something both sides have to concern themselves with however the Marines always have someone in base (Comm) should it come up. However I have seen the kahraa rush a base as a team and win like that by camping it waiting for the team to return or beacon. Just how it goes sometimes.
When I go marines I get to own weak lifeforms, get deep into enemy territory and set up shop, make high risk moves with no incredible sense of cost if I fail, and then hopefully get a gun and make some sucker fade pay for trying to help his team.
Simply put, there is no balance issue, marines certainly aren't overpowered, they are just more satisfying to play the majority of the time.
[edit] Reading this thread is like getting eye cancer. Seriously, there is not small feature change that is going to change the way the game works, it's not marine noise, it's not gun RoF, it's not some thing that tweaking stats or features can change. When you have a melee attacker VS a ranged attacker, whenever the ranged guy is able to choose the location of a battle he will, and SHOULD win, if that isn't the case then he is underpowered beyond belief. Because the ranged attacker can hit the melee attacker from any place he has LoS to, if he chooses a location where he has far LoS, he always has an advantage. The consequence is that because we can't allow marines to choose the optimum place to fight all the time, we MUST have them as the offensive party so they are FORCED to go into places that the aliens have an advantage. Right there is the problem, it's funner to be offensive than it is to be forced to be defensive. It's not really a fixable problem, it's just the way the game works. Strategies to downscale it involve changing the way marines take/lose ground, which is certainly very possible, but is NOT changing a few little variables.
Maybe instead of changing the game, change the way you play it. There are reasons why some players wipe the floor with pubbers.
When I go marines I get to own weak lifeforms, get deep into enemy territory and set up shop, make high risk moves with no incredible sense of cost if I fail, and then hopefully get a gun and make some sucker fade pay for trying to help his team.
Simply put, there is no balance issue, marines certainly aren't overpowered, they are just more satisfying to play the majority of the time.
[edit] Reading this thread is like getting eye cancer. Seriously, there is not small feature change that is going to change the way the game works, it's not marine noise, it's not gun RoF, it's not some thing that tweaking stats or features can change. When you have a melee attacker VS a ranged attacker, whenever the ranged guy is able to choose the location of a battle he will, and SHOULD win, if that isn't the case then he is underpowered beyond belief. Because the ranged attacker can hit the melee attacker from any place he has LoS to, if he chooses a location where he has far LoS, he always has an advantage. The consequence is that because we can't allow marines to choose the optimum place to fight all the time, we MUST have them as the offensive party so they are FORCED to go into places that the aliens have an advantage. Right there is the problem, it's funner to be offensive than it is to be forced to be defensive. It's not really a fixable problem, it's just the way the game works. Strategies to downscale it involve changing the way marines take/lose ground, which is certainly very possible, but is NOT changing a few little variables.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WOW well put swift spear.
Aliens for me are probably the funnest thing to play when at least 1 other player out of 15 you have know how to play. Which in fact rarely ever happens. I and others could keep going on and on about this crap but it will fall on deaf ear. Reading half these posts in here hurt the brain.
<!--quoteo(post=1653967:date=Oct 4 2007, 09:38 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Oct 4 2007, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I go aliens I have to start as a weak annoying skulk, do a bunch of crap for my team, make sure marines don't get into our internal bases, and then go either drop the hive and have no change to my class ever or go fade and have MASSIVE pressure to not die.
When I go marines I get to own weak lifeforms, get deep into enemy territory and set up shop, make high risk moves with no incredible sense of cost if I fail, and then hopefully get a gun and make some sucker fade pay for trying to help his team.
Simply put, there is no balance issue, marines certainly aren't overpowered, they are just more satisfying to play the majority of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not going to happen because competitive gamers will just cry like prostitutes and escorts and whine for fullbright maps back again. Atmosphere in NS was over as soon as 2.0 kicked off.
that was sarcastic since im retired ns competitive player if you want some atmopshere i suggest you to play some single player game for example avp, avp is nice in single player but its loler bad in multi same goes for game like fear, anyway multiplayer game is meant to be created for the best gameplay NOT FOR SOME RETARDED GRAPHIC EFFECT.
oh and you're the one crying prostitute, im just saying the game is bad and obviously when game is bad you can see dying communities which is a fact as it goes for ns.
[edit] That being said, I'm hoping NS2 repairs the problem to some degree with dynamic infestation giving aliens more options with what they do with their own turf. It's going to be hard to get bored of the atmosphere of a game when all of a sudden a room that should look one way is in a totally different set up in nearly every way. Why is my MS all slimy? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1654065:date=Oct 4 2007, 07:13 PM:name=DRagon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRagon @ Oct 4 2007, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that was sarcastic since im retired ns competitive player if you want some atmopshere i suggest you to play some single player game for example avp, avp is nice in single player but its loler bad in multi same goes for game like fear, anyway multiplayer game is meant to be created for the best gameplay NOT FOR SOME RETARDED GRAPHIC EFFECT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The irony in that post.
A retarded graphic effect? The atmosphere in NS created better and more diverse and challenging gameplay. Competitive players whining for fullbright ruined it and helped bring the player base down with it. Without the atmosphere in NS, it's just another Aliens Vs Humans game.
Doom 3 was never atmospheric, it was just annoying, and that kind of environment has no place in a balanced multiplayer theater anyways. Competitive players never came out against atmosphere, they encouraged mappers to think about the way their lighting effected gameplay, which is something they should be frigging doing. It's bad enough how many failed NS maps we have basically for little errors like that already.
Thanks.
Thaldarin, what in your opinion does 'atmosphere' mean? Graphical effects? Gameplay elements?
Thaldarin, what in your opinion does 'atmosphere' mean? Graphical effects? Gameplay elements?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
giant revolving doors, elevators, ladders, steam everywhere, pitch black, ceilings so low you can't double jump (sup ayumi), infestation everywhere, steam, dripping water, water, sewage
atmosphere just gets ######ing old after a week
A retarded graphic effect? The atmosphere in NS created better and more diverse and challenging gameplay. Competitive players whining for fullbright ruined it and helped bring the player base down with it. Without the atmosphere in NS, it's just another Aliens Vs Humans game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
competitive players have nothing to do with player base going down, it's just bad development from uwe, blaming competitive scene for such a thing means you're nowhere near the truth, gl thou with your reasoning...
Yes, atmopshere. make ns darker with milion useless sounds so fana can make another knifegaming pack or nLs pack, most of the ppl use them and they are not always competitive ones.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->atmosphere just gets ######ing old after a week<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 needs 50000x more ladders, that's all I know.
(SUP AA?!)
(SUP AA?!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correction: They still get stuck if their horizontal speed's too low. SUP SEWER HIVE
They don't get stuck if blink is depressed, and they don't get stuck if their vertical speed exceeds a certain amount. Sewer hive is screwed up because of the lips at the top of the ladder, since you don't use vertical speed to get into the passage way, you have to aim through this obtusely small hole.