Alien Start
Xain
Join Date: 2007-09-13 Member: 62281Members
Join Date: 2007-09-13 Member: 62281Members
<div class="IPBDescription">No hives, just a Gorganot</div><b>General Idea</b>: The aliens will start with no hives and no resources, but instead a random player(which threw a commander-vote kick like system may be replaced) will become a Gorganot <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" /> A onos sized armored Gorge, that servers as the father of the Kharaa. It will be unable to attack and moves a little faster than a normal Gorge, it is Onos sized and can't fit in vents or compacted spaces, but It will be protected by the rest of the teams skulks (which will be able to spawn back in off the back of the gorganot). The player that is controlling the gorganot will see everything but with an overlay of either red or green, mainly red. The mappers will dedicate specific (between 5 - 10) areas where each hive may be constructed, the green areas. Once the Gorganot roots itself into the ceiling (from rolling on its back and killing itself, and leaving its team vulnerable by destroying the sacks the skulks spawn from to propel itself to the ceiling sticking its legs into the ceiling which will start the DI, and create a deflated sack on its back which will fill and become a Hive.) and becoming the hive. Once the hive is constructed each team mate will receive 30 resources and be able to evolve.
<b>Balancing</b>: To keep things from happening (spawn a hive in marine spawn, same place every game) their will be a static field around the command chair so the gorganot will not be able to birth the hive around the marine spawn, and their will be areas (mapper specified) that the gorganot can birth the hive, preventing of having an area where the hive is very useful to win the game and basicly dominate the marines. The first hive the gorganot births will be built in 1/4 the time of a normal hive, Aliens will start with 0 resources and Marines will start with half of their current resources.
<b>What this will do</b>: It will prevent the marines from already knowing where the aliens are by removing Hive - Bathbubbles from the map and it will allow the marines to have a little extra time to setup, as well as the aliens to choose there own area making each game unique. This will also open my other idea of having upgraded Alien types such as a Shade (evolved form of a fade) having no Rocket or Regeneration ability but instead a phase ability which makes the shade move so fast its almost undetectable. A Gorganot being a overgrown gorge would be a evolved gorge, eliminating the creation of a hive, but sacrificing yourself to conquer more territory.
<b>Balancing</b>: To keep things from happening (spawn a hive in marine spawn, same place every game) their will be a static field around the command chair so the gorganot will not be able to birth the hive around the marine spawn, and their will be areas (mapper specified) that the gorganot can birth the hive, preventing of having an area where the hive is very useful to win the game and basicly dominate the marines. The first hive the gorganot births will be built in 1/4 the time of a normal hive, Aliens will start with 0 resources and Marines will start with half of their current resources.
<b>What this will do</b>: It will prevent the marines from already knowing where the aliens are by removing Hive - Bathbubbles from the map and it will allow the marines to have a little extra time to setup, as well as the aliens to choose there own area making each game unique. This will also open my other idea of having upgraded Alien types such as a Shade (evolved form of a fade) having no Rocket or Regeneration ability but instead a phase ability which makes the shade move so fast its almost undetectable. A Gorganot being a overgrown gorge would be a evolved gorge, eliminating the creation of a hive, but sacrificing yourself to conquer more territory.
Comments
You are definitely trying to address one of the static frustrations of NS1, so that NS2 is better, and that is admirable.
What mechanism could you propose so mappers still have some control over Hive location and are able to plot out resource nodes and the like in a balanced fashion?
The best I can think of at the moment would be to reduce the size of the hive.
Also, the only way for it to avoid confusing a poor new player, is don't bother. If it isn't a concept that new player can pick up easily, why even have it? I would suggest that perhaps the "hive maker" be a free creature to "egg" to, plus, have some sort of voting system, just in case you get a griefer, similar to voting a Commander to eject.
I'm not sure I am coming up with anything helpful but I still think the idea has plenty of merit.
Maybe since they said they wont create any outdoor maps, there could be a voting time period [X seconds] where the aliens tove where to place the hive or something? The idea is that aliens have taken over space stations and such, right? So it would be like them infesting the area, and they could choose where to "infest it" from. There is a time period of 30 seconds where the aliens have a "comm", and he'she chooses where to place the hive. Similarly the marines could choose their comm at this time also, seeing as how they would naturally have a leader of some sort, before going after some aliens. So they get a warmup period where both sides vote for a leader.
Yes, but then youd have morons building hives in stupid places,
not to mention, all maps would have a place where it would be best to get a hive, ie. double res, or a good central map control point.
I DO like the idea, but i dont know if it would work.
and i love the idea of a giant gorge <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
not to mention, all maps would have a place where it would be best to get a hive, ie. double res, or a good central map control point.
I DO like the idea, but i dont know if it would work.
and i love the idea of a giant gorge <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, did you read my *entire* post? hehe I just said that...
I do hope that there are different types of gorges in the game. I mean like, battle gorges who cannot choose 3 types of upgrades [no matter how many hives there], but by doing so get equal bonuses like super armor and adrenaline, so they are kinda "tailored" for battle. Maybe some would be soft skinned, and look "squishy" so they couldnt take too many rounds, but they would be faster and quieter. I know the upgrades exist already, but I mean it would be great if their skins and colors changed based on the upgrade!
Exactly, it isn't the mechanism that is important here, it is the purpose driving the idea.
It could be as simple as a vote system that lasts 5 seconds (or however long the server sets it) that chooses the first hive, not enough votes results in a random choice.
Or it could be the Gorganaut, what once was a pile of Kharaa goo, now seeks a place to "breach" the wall of a marine map and begin the Dynamic Infestation.
<!--quoteo(post=1650504:date=Sep 19 2007, 02:21 PM:name=Xain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xain @ Sep 19 2007, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vote system is good with me, as long as theres several locations (like 5 - 10) areas to vote for. so mairnes are oblivious as where the aliens are actually starting from, the DI kinda giving away where they start =D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. I like the refinement of this idea.
But obviously the easiest of all would just be having balanced maps <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />.
It always helps to read the topic you're posting in.
<!--quoteo(post=1650331:date=Sep 18 2007, 05:10 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Sep 18 2007, 05:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650331"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly, it isn't the mechanism that is important here, it is the purpose driving the idea.
It could be as simple as a vote system that lasts 5 seconds (or however long the server sets it) that chooses the first hive, not enough votes results in a random choice.
Or it could be the Gorganaut, what once was a pile of Kharaa goo, now seeks a place to "breach" the wall of a marine map and begin the Dynamic Infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think it'd be smarter if skulks could summon the first hive. they are mobile and you could set the skulks that are requiered to summon(walking to a hive location, using the summon-hive function) a hive to 60% and it'd be dropped randomly if the aliens did not drop one within 30sec
i think it'd be smarter if skulks could summon the first hive. they are mobile and you could set the skulks that are requiered to summon(walking to a hive location, using the summon-hive function) a hive to 60% and it'd be dropped randomly if the aliens did not drop one within 30sec<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree the Gorganot is a crazy idea, but I imagine it would be fun to play as an alternative game.
However I think the idea of placing the hive is a really cool idea. But have it so their is a short vote/start time before the game where a mini map comes up and all the alien players get to choose (via vote) where they would like to place the hive. Perhaps they get to choose from only the current hive locations. Or maybe they get to choose all the hive locations from a large selection of places, which I personally feel would be much more interesting. This would also stop one player having all the pressure of putting the hive down and being rushed by all the marines, which you know will happen on almost every game.
I image it like this: Once people have left the ready room and joined the Kharaa, the mini map comes up on screen, with numbers for each location, 5-15 locations, depending on the map size. Then all the Kharaa players get 3 votes each. They can place two votes on one hive, but must vote for at least two hives. Then the hive with the most votes wins and all the players spawn at it. The locations that were voted second and third are then the other hives.
This idea would allow a team to tactically vote, getting hives that are closer together, or easier to defend, and would become more interesting for marines who would have to find the other hives, rather than knowing where they were. But on the other side, if a team did get 3 hives close together, they would have to defend them all very carefully, because they could loose them just as fast, marines would have to use less PGs and might just be able to push to the next hive. It might also lead to the Aliens being further away, or closer, to RTs. And leave Marines with plenty of room to relocate to if the hives were close together on one side of the map.
But then again, on unpredictable public servers or those with hardly any players, hives might get placed all over the place. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
This would also allow mappers have a new dimension to play with. As a mapper, you could place 3 hives next to each other, but have hardly any RTs near by; or put these 3 hives really near the marine start. Or put one hive near loads of RTs which would make players vote for it, but maybe have it with lots of entrances which makes it harder to defend. You could also have hive locations really close together, but with doors that could be locked down by marines and within sieging distance of another room. This would allow marines to attack a group of hives that the aliens thought were well defended, while defending themselves by locking the doors; much like siege maps now. This would mean the aliens would have to go around another way, or drop a further away hive before worrying about the rest of the hives.
Hive vote would be cool to see in NS2 I think.
Sorry if people already said this, I got bored of reading all the stuff on here. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
My reason for making this is to either a: have a new life form that creates hives at a desired location on the map or b: have a vote system to create the hive locations / marine start (like the posts above) I strongly dislike the current minimaps (MARINES START HERE: how in the world would aliens that just entered the area already have known that, same with aliens. You wouldn't know.) this gives each game a unique feel to it instead of oh lets go drop a res node at biodome and vent than go for marine start.
I think my new idea is to go with a random (or vote) system of the first starting hive (as is now) without any mini map info as where it is at. but have the Gorganot as a evolution of a gorge that becomes the hive.
Main Point : Starting Location for Aliens isn't the same each round.
How: 1. To prevent concerns of random newbie getting hive maker, you can either, vote, or easier let people enter a pool of randoms. At start using the UI menu or what (make it semi-out of way so newbies don't click it). It would say "Evolve to Make First Hive". Whoever selects that is part of the random selection pool to do it. Therefore it still is random, easy, and newbies won't be included.
2. The other option is just to have set random hive locations. Players can vote which they would like to start at. Or simply it could be random. This doesn't have quite the dynamic environment I would like.
Additional Ideas: One added idea if the player was a unit that moved around to setup first hive. If he became under attack it would be nice to reward those that defend it. Perhaps when the unit gets hit guts fly off which give resources or health to ensure aliens get a clean start and people defend it.
Hive locations should be in the range of 5-10 due to map size constraits but once a hive gets droped then then some options should be elimanated. Also once hive locations are droped they are set for the rest of the game, otherwise marines could never really lock down a hive. When the mapper selects a hive location there sould be a limit to how many res are near by.
Voting system is preferable before start up. If there is a tie or lack of votes the server randomly picks starting hive.
But i think if the marines already knew where the alien build there hives on ns1
they should know that in ns2 too
they studied the aliens...they know that they need... how much room.. how much energy..
there would NEVER (unless custom map) be 3 hive positions right next to each other.
and oh if you played early NS versions there wasnt even text on the maps just maps, which makes it a whole lot better imo.
there would NEVER (unless custom map) be 3 hive positions right next to each other.
and oh if you played early NS versions there wasnt even text on the maps just maps, which makes it a whole lot better imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i like this idea, it gives a more evoloved state of aliens, realising their positions had been discovered, they decided to move the hive to a decided location to delay marines attacks on the hive and on hive locations.
having multiple areas haives can be placed will make it harder for marines to prevent aliens of building a hive because they dont know which 3 locations the aliens will choose out of 6 or 10 other possible spots.
Few things that come to my mind...
- The larger the physical size of the map, the greater the advantage for the aliens due to their speed.
- Marine Start Balance... the same old concept? Or adopt the Hive Choice concept? Or come up with something new?
- RT placement vs strategic siege / PG defense... if the aliens choose Spot A, which is known to be centrally located near several RTs, then that spot ought to be designed with a disadvantage such as it is easily sieged, or located near long hallways. Understand what I'm trying to convey?
This concept has potential... but as was already stated, well designed maps will make or break this concept.