Ok Look
Radix
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
I realize I'm probably just as much a problem in regard to this as anyone (although I happen to be of the opinion that many of my ideas were well-thought-out and would actually *work* in practice, but I'm probably slightly biased).
The fact is, I like this game more or less the way it is. The "one third the same, one third new, one third changed" rule is what I was getting at with things like new game modes, or armory chests. I never intended to post anything that would be perceived as "let's revamp the core mechanics of NS with civillians and loot and tech trees for aliens so we can spec windfury and dominate - ok?
I don't imagine the devs will change the core underpinnings of the game just because of these threads, but I just wanted to make it clear - the game is very good as it is. There are some areas that need improvement, and there are some that can use some enhancements, but <b>by-and-large it's great as it is</b> (minus the barriers to entry).
Don't think that when I (or anyone else) suggests something here, it's because we're trying to send the message that the game needs a change because there's something seriously wrong with it - just the opposite - the game is damn good as it is, the nitpicks that are posted on these forums are just that - I think at the end of the day we're all just trying to help, but I for one believe in vanilla NS as the core foundation of all that is, or ever will be, Natural-Selection.
The fact is, I like this game more or less the way it is. The "one third the same, one third new, one third changed" rule is what I was getting at with things like new game modes, or armory chests. I never intended to post anything that would be perceived as "let's revamp the core mechanics of NS with civillians and loot and tech trees for aliens so we can spec windfury and dominate - ok?
I don't imagine the devs will change the core underpinnings of the game just because of these threads, but I just wanted to make it clear - the game is very good as it is. There are some areas that need improvement, and there are some that can use some enhancements, but <b>by-and-large it's great as it is</b> (minus the barriers to entry).
Don't think that when I (or anyone else) suggests something here, it's because we're trying to send the message that the game needs a change because there's something seriously wrong with it - just the opposite - the game is damn good as it is, the nitpicks that are posted on these forums are just that - I think at the end of the day we're all just trying to help, but I for one believe in vanilla NS as the core foundation of all that is, or ever will be, Natural-Selection.
Comments
(Where mana symbolizes the community and general steam user interest)
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They should make NS Source and NS2.
It probably wouldnt be that hard to code a NS: Source "mode" into NS2?
No Stars, just all those source maps that are made for one type of gameplay, would have to be totally re-made... Not that much work. Not at all...
/ontopic
I agree w/ Radix, but I'm pretty sure that the devs/future playtesters will make sure that the gameplay rox the cazzzzbar into full tilt.
No Stars, just all those source maps that are made for one type of gameplay, would have to be totally re-made... Not that much work. Not at all...
/ontopic
I agree w/ Radix, but I'm pretty sure that the devs/future playtesters will make sure that the gameplay rox the cazzzzbar into full tilt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, what?
im pretty sure maps wont have any... functionality or things (like another type of resource) that NS couldnt cope with.
This would also only be possible is all the same marine equip/buildings/aliens existed.
which it probably wont, so its unrealistic, but since NS2 will have massive LUA capabilities, im sure someone will create an NS1 custom mod.
NS1 was good, I especially enjoyed it when I first found it when it was around version 2, then when I rediscovered it with version 3, but the fact of the matter is, each time I was severely n00b, each time was this vicious cycle of being ejected from the Command Chair while trying to learn the controls and the purpose of this or that drop, of being threatened with kicks and bans when dropping the wrong chamber - let alone even trying to see what a turret or offense chamber could do as a defensive measure.
No doubt, it is one of the most profound experiences I have had with a mod, but I was willing to accept its downfalls because it was a mod. As a commercial game I would have long ago moved on. There is a vast area of improvement, even though they got so much right.
The core of Natural Selection for IMHO is first and foremost the blend of RTS & FPS, the second most important part is the mythology of the Kharaa and TSA that is heavily influenced by some of my favourite science fiction and fantasy. Everything else has been tweaked a million different ways since they released this mod.
Don't kid yourself, if Natural Selection was perfect as is, why bother developing NS2? Just stop the free updates, package what you got, and sell it - other mods did it, why not Unknown Worlds? They obviously aspire to something better and I for one am going to throw out every zany idea I have in the hope that it helps them attain that goal, even if it goes against everything we know from NS1 v1, NS1 v2, or NS1 v3.
Even if Unknown Worlds only changed 1/10 of NS1, added 1/10 something new, and removed 1/10 old, we know it would completely change the gameplay, even the feel of the atmosphere. The various versions (v1, v2, v3) of NS1 demonstrate this very clearly.
We should reconsider what the goals of Natural Selection are as a game and ask yourself how it could play out better. The we might avoid things like not using OCs in the game or avoiding the command chair or not building turrets.
I think peoples views are tainted by the overwhelming success of CS. Take CS out of the equation and I can only think of DoD as a third party mod that has managed at its peak to attract more people to a half life mod than NS. I'd say NS1 was superbly successful and migration to newer games is natural (unless you're a game as simple and supported as CS is, which partly goes to why DoD is still doing relatively well.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't kid yourself, if Natural Selection was perfect as is, why bother developing NS2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No game is ever perfect as time moves on, if only because graphics can be improved. CS didn't *need* CS source but arguably it has been made better for its mostly cosmetic revamp.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just stop the free updates, package what you got, and sell it - other mods did it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What other mods did this, let alone ones that have survived? I honestly can't name one personally so I'd welcome the insight <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
This was taken out of context, if you read the rest that is with that statement you will see I think better of Unknown Worlds than to do just that.
But ones that have sold a retail box of what once was a mod? You just named two, Counter Strike and Day of Defeat. Even Team Fortress Classic and this tron like game was packaged with Half-Life. And Half-Life isn't the only one to include community made games with the retail one, I recall Unreal Tournament did this as well and browsing through my games I see Jagged Alliance 2 had Wildfire included. Hmm, I'm sure there are some others, its usually tagged on to anniversary editions or special grouped together packages, like Gold edition this or Platinum version that. Sometimes they get included in Add-ons as well.
BTW, how is this an idea or suggestion thread? Wouldn't this kind of discussion be better suited to the NS2 General forum?
Anyway, my point was that mods that went retail (in terms of HL this was after source, and this team has already shown to get proper use out of it they have to pay to get full access, IIRC) had huge support from valve because of the amount of popularity they gained in the early years of mods. CS was around almost from the beginning of the modding scene on HL, and DoD was certainly one of the first world war 2 based mods around that wasn't bogged down by unpopular "realism". NS joined the party late and yet still became (and I wish I had figures) what I suspect to be one of the top 5 mods ever created in terms of popularity, at least definitely in terms of half life.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that these two mods are on a similar albeit vast scale to NS, and they have done very well out of simple official support from Valve. I don't think naysaying ideas like some do in this forum is a good thing, there is nothing wrong with ideas, but I also think that the game should be given a chance without having vast amounts of changes made to it for the sake of change, without first seeing what the impact of an improved but essentially largely similar game for source would get in terms of popularity with the ensuing "ratification" by steam and similar.
Essentially the game is doing well, and it's good to keep that in mind, because it has also kept a lot of fans (someone told me that NS alone has currently got more players than all of the third party mods developed for source, obviously excluding CS and DoD), and the balance needs to be levelled between changes to entice those on the periphery vs changes that will annoy some of our more long term and skilled user base, and so far all the indications seem to be good on that point <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm sure we essentially agree on this point, but are going about reasoning things in different ways <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
The only thing I could think of when I read your post was "Word".
Really well thought out post and I agree that if NS was "Sourcified" it would see a resurgence.
I geuss, its just the way I've always approached sequels, I want it to be better than the predeccesor on a number of quibles we had with the previous gameplay. If just one thing is addressed, I hope it is the commander experience and why players will avoid that CC at all costs, even if it breaks the game. That thing right there alone is why I think Combat is so popular with some. Right up close in second place seems to be the issue of "cookie cutter" strategies, where putting down turrets or chambers can get you kicked or even banned. Those are some pretty sad situations for NS1 to be in and I don't want them for NS2.