Gestating in Water Changes Lifeform Qualities
Radix
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">It makes sense, and may be good gameplay</div>The idea is broader than the title suggests. Whatever environment you gestate in triggers certain variables in your player object. Maybe your swim speed changes, maybe you get extra spikes on your model (or spikes in different places), maybe your eyes turn a different color or your sounds are more gutteral. You could use the idea for gestating in any environment, and could even go so far as to create a brush entity that would directly effect certain attributes of your character beyond the automatic effects of getstating in water or a similar substance.
Comments
Aliens evolved on creep/infestation could have slightly different abilities than those evolved on normal surfaces or water.
Ideas:
Gestated on:
On infestation:
4% movement speed increase while running on the infestation
10% faster cloaking time while on infestation
In water:
10% speed increase in water
2% global speed increase on land
minus 4% amour
Near lava (hot places):
7% resistance to flame/explosion damage (counter flamethrower/nadespamming)
4% slower global movement
Thanks for the positive feedback. What do you think of making even more drastic changes than number shuffles like movement and cloak speed - say if you gestated fully submerged in water, you would become that "swimmer" lifeform that's been brought up numerous times in the past but discarded because there aren't enough water areas in maps to justify it?
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That would be a great idea...if there was a way that it could be more effective on land.
I don't think creatures should evolve into completely different creatures, but I am all in favor of visual changes to their models and textures.
I already see it as a great opportunity to get the last squeeze of strategy out of NS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I don't think creatures should evolve into completely different creatures, but I am all in favor of visual changes to their models and textures.
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Yeah. I don't think I particularly like the whole bonus idea...unless it was a kind of counter for enemy marines.
comm drops an IP underwater, marines spawn with flippers and a snorkel =)
comm drops an armory near a furnace, marines get HMG's with lava bullets <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
PLEASE DONT TAKE THESE IDEAS SERIOUSLY!!
I personally like the idea of creating significant changes to gameplay based on the evolution environment, and beyond my likes and dislikes, it seems like a positive implementation to the game. Biting on nodes is tedious, fading into the same room over and over probing for a weakness is tedious, every element of NS can be described as tedious at times. The beauty is when it all comes together in an atmospheric scifi simulator with good people and good gameplay.
A) Tremondous more work for each model, even if abilities dont change.
B) you make this sound as if NS2 is going to be an MMO. FPS's need simple, clearly-defined paths for simpler balancing reasons. Hell, it took 4 years to balance NS as it is now. ...
C) Everything is tedious at one point or another. Your assertion that making lifeforms who gestate in different places should have different characteristics is just silly. An RTS will always have neat little things here and there, but this is certainly Not neat and not Little--nor is it "good gameplay".
Good gameplay in FPS's are mostly pre-determined not by the maps, but by hard-coding. If you decide that the environment acts upon the character's skills (actively through gestating in that portion of the map), then this just complicates about 10 different factors with Nothing added to gameplay.
If you want different gameplay, write up a mod for NS2 and make some maps. Make your NeoTFC version of NS2. lol. We all know helicopters and uber skills make a much better game than no helicopters and no uber skills.
But seriously, WTH would you want the environment to change your skills? You ask, WTH wouldn't you? B/c it just makes about twenty more variables to balance, and it wont improve gameplay one iota imho.
Also imho, your idea is akin to the NeoTFC mod.
Look at any other successful FPS, and think about reasons why they dont have map environments affect their models, gameplay, anything. There are a LOT of good reasons why not to do it, and close to 0 (if not 0) good reasons to do it.
That's why it's a suggestion, not a demand, or something that absolutely *must* be added.
<!--quoteo(post=1631092:date=Jun 4 2007, 04:33 AM:name=MasterPTG)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MasterPTG @ Jun 4 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]1631092[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B) FPS's need simple, clearly-defined paths for simpler balancing reasons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then by your argument, counterstrike is an infinitely better game than NS.
<!--quoteo(post=1631092:date=Jun 4 2007, 04:33 AM:name=MasterPTG)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MasterPTG @ Jun 4 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]1631092[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->C) Everything is tedious at one point or another. Your assertion that making lifeforms who gestate in different places should have different characteristics is just silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, and all I've heard to counter it (besides the aforementioned) is "I don't want this, go away". The game is called natural-selection and a fundamental principle of that noun is the environment. If you grow up in a socialist country you're likely to be a socialist. If a celerity egg evolves in the water, it's likely to give more of a boost to water speed than land speed. I wasn't even really as concerned with fade eggs and whatnot, the idea was mostly that skulk gameplay could become diversified as the upper eschelons of the alien tech tree are already fine.
The idea is obviously open to criticism, and may very well end up being inferior gameplay to gestation as it exists now - but a blanket "No, it's bad you MMO junkie." seems like an overreaction to me.
As to what it adds, and why it <b><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->might be<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> worthy of changing the status quo for, it generates a sliding scale between the time and risk it takes to get to the best gestation point for the given situation, and the benefit you get by gestating in a more 'fertile' environment. This seems like a positive addition to an RTS, and since NS is an RTS/FPS hybrid, it seems to me that it fits the style and vision of the game.
A few cosmetic changes to the aliens, as well as a few changes to the alien's techs isn't such a bad thing.
Personally, I think it would add more strategy to the game. Both sides would have more points of interest to try to control.
Very interesting idea, i'll give it a +1
I'm thinking more in terms of certain points in the map (perhaps a leaky power generator or something) could provide bonuses when you gestate near them. These points would be well away from any marine or alien starting locations, and could be actively defended by either team.
Both NS and TFC both have simple, clearly defined paths that make gameplay both complex and fun. CS is just retardedly simple. pt, aim, throw flashbang or 2 or 3.
What I'm saying, is that by increasing tiny variables, the developer opens up entire cans of worms that may or may not eat him.
Halo2 had complex forts that they added, b/c it was More. CS:S added barrels and cans that were affected by physics, b/c is was More. I could go on...
More is not really needed in the 'gestation evolutionary evolution gestation' portion of the game imho, b/c A) I think it's REALLY retarded and that's saying something B) What is it going to add to the game? Holy #$%#, if I gestate in the water, my skulk has GILLPOWER and thereby can swim faster to catch up to marines in water faster. WTF? ... C) Just complicates map design, modeling, balance, etc.
What I'm trying to say, is that it's not the best bang for your buck imo. A flawed idea, if taken in another direction may be uber.
The arguments you made are a matter of speculation and theorycrafting which is why I said it <b><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->might be<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> a good addition to the game. No one can know right now.
I was actually thinking along the lines of an environmental brush entity that would effect eggs only. Mappers could place it wherever they wanted, giving them total control over balance. The idea for water to give you "GILLPOWER" was just an example of what could be accomplished.
EDIT: If environmental brushes were added (say, to change the level of warmth/coldness in an area) then the idea could <i>optionally</i> function as a factor of that <i>if</i> it proved to be good gameplay <i>after</i> being thoroughly tested.
But also keep in mind, like with cooking, a lot of ideas are taken by developers, looked at, altered to fit their views and finally put in. It's just a very large brainstorming session that might lead to the next big thing.
Saying "They do not have the manpower to do it" is not a reason.
The NS team want to deliver a very polished product and as such if it takes more time to put this feature in then so be it. We are not the ones to judge how and on what the devs spend their time.
But that aside:
Small bonusses sound well..weird to me. As someone before me said in the thread: One would try and seek out "The imba spot" to go and evolve. This sounds like a very limiting factor to me (Onos must wait to evolve until they are near lava to be fire resistant). Maybe a sort of "re-evolve" in case you are already a lerk but want to evolve again near lava but not spend the full cost of going lerk again?
As for the models changing: OH YEAH! That will bring a bit of diversity amongst the models.
*I* like it but also keep this in mind: When I play NS I think of the Kharaa as a never ending stream of enemies coming at me. Every time I kill one, an exact same one is born into the world. Wouldn't diversifying the Kharaa give them too much "personality"?
<!--quoteo(post=1632214:date=Jun 7 2007, 02:05 PM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Jun 7 2007, 02:05 PM) [snapback]1632214[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was actually thinking along the lines of an environmental brush entity that would effect eggs only. Mappers could place it wherever they wanted, giving them total control over balance. The idea for water to give you "GILLPOWER" was just an example of what could be accomplished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although the gillpower idea is indeed very drastic how about the following:
We know the mapping community in NS is insanely talented so maybe add a sort of system where map designers can add "plugins" for the aliens.
A mining station, being deep underground, would have paler skulks and maybe a rougher skin to adapt to the falling rocks.
A water purifying station would have more "aquatic" (gillpower !! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) Kharaa.
These changes could be either with bonusses or just visual. Even visually changing Kharaa will ensure diversity!
And so on and so on.
Although we will of course see abuse of such features in custom maps I think we mostly must remain focussed on the maps that are gonna go for "true NS feeling".
Along with this; UW should add an indicator on the HUD for what kind of surface there on. That way, they know what there going to get when they gestate (IE, I wonder if this spot counts as infestation, or water, since there so close...)
Adding that there are different benefits to morphing underwater isn't nessessary, but on the other hand, sounds -intuitive- to me. Something that could be beneficial, and isn't overly complicated because it makes sense, even in the heat of battle.
Seeking out "hot places" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless those hot places were specifically keyed to the hives themselves. And then it wouldn't be about hot/cold, it'd be proximity to hive.
<b>vote <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>