Your opinion: pressure on spawns or pressure on RTs
the_x5
the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Which is more important?</div>Again, this is strategy opinion. Highly subjective stuff and as such...
<u><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Rules<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u> (*sigh* sadly I don't trust common sense on these boards):<ul><li>Stay on topic</li><li>Please list examples and keep the distinction between theory and actual gameplay (perhaps also a distinction between public play and competitive, or small 6v6 servers and larger 15v15 servers)</li></ul>Now take the different distinctions and scenerios in your mind and weigh the priorities. Remember, you can't win the game unless you take the enemies hives/IPs down (primary objective), and you can't easily do that without resouces (secondary objective).
Treat this topic as an open-ended strategic priority discussion.
<u><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Rules<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u> (*sigh* sadly I don't trust common sense on these boards):<ul><li>Stay on topic</li><li>Please list examples and keep the distinction between theory and actual gameplay (perhaps also a distinction between public play and competitive, or small 6v6 servers and larger 15v15 servers)</li></ul>Now take the different distinctions and scenerios in your mind and weigh the priorities. Remember, you can't win the game unless you take the enemies hives/IPs down (primary objective), and you can't easily do that without resouces (secondary objective).
Treat this topic as an open-ended strategic priority discussion.
Comments
RT pressure on the other hand is something that is required to win a game. You could call it a "hygiene factor" in competetive gaming as the team that doesn't immediately is at a great disadvantage. RT pressure IS the game.
Of course you could say the same thing for spawn pressure, in the sense that two great teams would always be scouting for an opportunity to end the game by taking out the other base, or gaining an advantage by delaying reinforcements by attacking the spawn. However this is not the game in practice as of now. It used to be like this to some extent a few versions back though.
"i'm at your base, killing your dudes"
The importance of a base hit versus node hit depends a whole lot on how far the game has progressed. Early node takedowns are crucial (especially killing alien's). However, rines rushing the hive on a chamber takedown or aliens rushing on an AA takedown can have longer lasting effects. In the middle of a major battle, taking down the arms lab can also be very helpful.
The biggest use for a rush on marine base is to force a beacon. As long as the alien team is prepared for it, they have a good chance of getting a meat grinder going on whatever PG the marines are trying to hold.
only when you know that there will be little resistance should you attack spawn
if marines are taking out a hive it is necessary for a couple of aliens to attack MS
it distracts them or allows you to take out AA, obs, AL, proto...
Thread lost all creditability when you mentioned gorge rush. Any semi decent comm should be able to combat that with no problem even on 16vs16 servers.
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But what about 2v2 EHHHHHHHHHH?
The biggest use for a rush on marine base is to force a beacon. As long as the alien team is prepared for it, they have a good chance of getting a meat grinder going on whatever PG the marines are trying to hold.
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Good points. Ok, so what are the indicators of the game's progress that players should look for. Scenerios?
Good points. Ok, so what are the indicators of the game's progress that players should look for. Scenerios?
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When the rines don't have phase gates up yet is a very good time to hit their spawn. edit:If the marines have to beacon it becomes a lot easier for the aliens to setup ambushes, hit nodes, drop nodes, and just slows the marine team down.
False bacon dude
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False beacons only work if the aliens care about dying.
Generally, the obs should only be killed first if you're trying to destroy MS. Otherwise it is much more useful to kill one or two buidings, usually the armory, armslab, or phasegate, and get out while the beacon goes off.
If you can account for nearly every marine and they're in a position where they can't get back to base quickly, hit base.
If the marines have a phasegate up somewhere and they don't have it covered in mines, attack base, destroy the phasegate and obs (after the beacon goes off), haul ###### to the field phasegate and take it out.
If the marines are sieging your second hive, have one skulk kill nodes. This can effectively end the siege and destroy the marines capability to prototech.
aliens should always have atleast one skulk on RTs. for the most part aliens will be defending, but when it becomes clear that the aliens will lose something(an RT, a hive, chambers) then they should switch to offense and destroy either all the marine RTs, the AA, or the base while the marines are busy killing your stuff. while you will still lose your stuff you will atleast get something in return. alot of the mechanics of chess can be applied here.
also if the marines have no external phasegate and marines are moving out of MS to go set one up the aliens should attack MS once they are gone. this will force the marines to come back to base and fend off the aliens instead of setting up an external pg.
but really the key is balance. parts of your team are needed to keep pressure on the nodes to keep your team's res income good, as well as interfere with the opposing team's res flow. and it is equally important to keep pressure on the enemy's spawn, as mentioned, to inhibit their ability to cap nodes, take away your team's nodes, and harass your own team's spawn.
Yeah there's plenty of exceptions, as mentioned above, but the number one reason that games are won or lost is due to res control.
There's been games we should have won, but didn't because we only had 2 nodes. There's been games where the other team ignores the nodes and pushes us into a corner, just to have a backlash from our upgraded team that drives them all the way to their base and keeps them there. Res is the key player that really defines who wins.
I should also point out that trying to box the other team into spawn only really works when there's severe skill or tech balances. I mean, they spawn there, thus they should have numerical advantage from, oh I don't know, spawning there while you run all the way back? It's one of those end-game situationals that only works when there's a clear advantage so you can hold it.
I asked for this topic to be made into a poll twice by now. I don't know <i>why</i> we can't make polls when pHpBB is capable of doing it... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
If the enemy has no base, their res is gone because they've died already.
Pressuring nodes is much easier than pressuring a spawn.
Node pressure has more checkpoints - each time you kill a node, you gain permanent progress.
Since the outcome is the same, but one is easier than the other, RT pressure is more important.
One thing to keep in mind about taking out RTs is the fact that it does so much more damage to aliens. Having a community res pool means the RTs cost marines 15 res. For aliens, if you don't have a gorge nearby with the required res, an RT essentially costs 25 to drop.
if you spend all of your time chomping RTs, not only are you presenting yourself as an easy target for the other team, but you are allowing them to leave their spawn and gain territory/other nodes, which doesnt gain you very much.
if you keep them distracted at their spawn, they cant go out and capture nodes until they deal with you. even though, yes, you are inevitably bound to die due to the overwhelming numerical advantage- lets say you stay alive for a mere 60 seconds just distracting them at their base- in that small time frame 1 - 2 nodes can very easily/realistically go up in that time (not to mention that while this is happening their nodes can be attacked without being defended)
my point is that, despite the overwhelming and disturbing trend i see that people are swearing node pressure to be more important than spawn pressure, both are equally important. one tactic over the other will not gaurantee you the game-- however, balanced pressure on both will.
Listen, if you kill ALL of their nodes within the first 3 minutes. I don't care what else the aliens are doing, but unless they manage to destory MS, you've won.
Nodes are more precious than ANYTHING else for aliens. They will drop everything to defend their nodes. Some of them may try to force a beacon instead, but that's why you have mines and a comm that can shoot.
Whatever you've gotta do, the tprice is worth it to destroy lots and lots of nodes...unless the price is your entire base.