So when is the next update? (3.2+?). Can we remove the really tacky over played maps (ausns anyway), like veil/tanith. I think it's a shame that so much work is put in to these really intricate, and challenging maps and players only ever want the same thing over, and over, and over. BTW your long ###### posts have given me a headache <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
We cant remove the old maps. It simply wouldn't fly.
They are the staple of NS. Its kindof funny, because a lot of the 'classic, best' maps, if they were released now instead of when we all began NS and everything was new... well, i doubt they'd get anywhere near the same critical acclaim.
But, because everyone did grow up on them, we do love them, and it rubs off onto newbies. Some maps even emulate their straight-forwardness, like Lucid (though lucid has its own completely original style of room architecture... i'm talking about general lack of cover and basic layouts).
We definitely are seeing a new breed of NS map; Machina and Shiva are prime examples. Far more intricate designs, crossovers, vents, and dynamics. Its the same conceptual approach I took with Nexus, but sadly it wont be fully realized and properly playable until I fix some of the other issues in it, which should hopefully be done in the next version.
<!--quoteo(post=1617892:date=Mar 30 2007, 10:17 AM:name=Golden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Golden @ Mar 30 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]1617892[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Most of the people in competitive ns don't act like Mak or Chuck. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yea, like grepdash who only joins marines and rage quits when aliens are winning.
Stix, again, you seem to think if the Lakers played against a high school team, it's going to be fair and exciting game. There's a reason why clanners scrim against other clans. It would be useless for them to scrim against random pubs. They would be easting their time on a team that's not organized, or better yet, a team that's not at their level.
Again, it's the same reason why we don't give the midterm on the first day of school. You give people challenges that are at their level. What's the point in playing a game of football if you're team has already lost? What's the point in watching a game that's decided?
Perhaps you like playing 3 minute games that end with electrifying the hive, or a hour long game where marines never leave MS. Or you can go ahead and flip a coin if you want. Maybe that will satisfy your desire for instant wins or losses. I for one like a game where teams are fairly even to provide the tightest, closest games.
Handicaps and auto-team are just ideas. But their goal is the same: to provide games where team skills are even. Look at the goal and tell me if it's wrong. I for one do not like games that are decided in 5 minutes.
And yes, we can remove the old maps, if they have significant problems. It makes better games in servers and then we can bond with these better maps like eclipse, tanith or veil. If we were to follow your philosophy Stix, we would have never removed babblers, phermones or would not have +movement.
<!--quoteo(post=1617942:date=Mar 30 2007, 01:37 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Mar 30 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]1617942[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't think anybody is disagreeing with your intended result - it's your suggested methodology which people are arguing with. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Okay... then I don't see the point of arguing.
I want that goal too, but I haven't thought up of any other ways besides the ones I've listed. Perhaps if you have your own idea to get to this goal, I'd be 200% for it. But I don't see anybody throwing things around.
I posted it somewhere else but i'm too lazy to find it.
Basically, you can't even pretend to be able to automatically match a player's skill in an FPS on the PC, with one possible exception; when there is a master server program. As in, not independent servers, but the game company's own, that you connect to, and play through. We will never see this in NS, nor do we want to.
So if you want to complain about player skill imbalance, try a different approach.
Perhaps the only one i can think of, is to change the dynamic of the readyroom. Instead of being a free-for-all team joining spree, the devs could change it so that two players become the captains of each team.
How they would go about selecting this, i dont know, and it would probably get messy now and then. But from there, these captains would pick their teams one by one, and those players would be forced onto that team.
IMO this is pretty much the ONLY way to ensure relatively balanced teams in this kind of gaming environment. If you can think up something else, something *FEASIBLE*, go ahead.
<!--quoteo(post=1617932:date=Mar 30 2007, 09:27 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 30 2007, 09:27 PM) [snapback]1617932[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> And yes, we can remove the old maps, if they have significant problems. It makes better games in servers and then we can bond with these better maps like eclipse, tanith or veil. If we were to follow your philosophy Stix, we would have never removed babblers, phermones or would not have +movement. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no idea where this comment came from. I was saying we CANT remove the old maps, and the maps that i considered old and with their share of flaws, were exactly the ones you mentioned as the better ones.
I dont know how 'my philosophy' on the game being balanced leads to us never having removed two retarded pieces of the game, nor implementing the best feature yet. Feel free to explain.
We shouldn't go with a hair brained, poorly thought out, all round joke of a notion with massive consquences just because a few people on this forum can't solve the underlying issue that's present in all games with public play.
Accept that public play means anyone can join and do what they want. It's hardly been damaging for CS, has it.
I like the idea of ranking players by skill and locking servers that are highly distant away from their current rank. They should always be able to play "one up" from their current skill though, so as to improve.
<!--quoteo(post=1617964:date=Mar 30 2007, 03:51 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Mar 30 2007, 03:51 PM) [snapback]1617964[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I posted it somewhere else but i'm too lazy to find it.
Basically, you can't even pretend to be able to automatically match a player's skill in an FPS on the PC, with one possible exception; when there is a master server program. As in, not independent servers, but the game company's own, that you connect to, and play through. We will never see this in NS, nor do we want to.
So if you want to complain about player skill imbalance, try a different approach.
Perhaps the only one i can think of, is to change the dynamic of the readyroom. Instead of being a free-for-all team joining spree, the devs could change it so that two players become the captains of each team.
How they would go about selecting this, i dont know, and it would probably get messy now and then. But from there, these captains would pick their teams one by one, and those players would be forced onto that team.
IMO this is pretty much the ONLY way to ensure relatively balanced teams in this kind of gaming environment. If you can think up something else, something *FEASIBLE*, go ahead. I have no idea where this comment came from. I was saying we CANT remove the old maps, and the maps that i considered old and with their share of flaws, were exactly the ones you mentioned as the better ones. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of ranking players by skill and locking servers that are highly distant away from their current rank. They should always be able to play "one up" from their current skill though, so as to improve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now we are getting somewhere.
Stix, when you are choosing players, would the players have any indicators of their performance? Or would it just be manual choosing?
And Harrower, I like that idea, but I'm not sure what sort of system could hold the "ranks" of the players and if there are enough players, let alone servers to accomplish this.
I think we have to work from throwing everyone in the same basket. That's because we have such a small pool of players and servers to work with.
I just wanted to say, now that you dragged me out to say anything at all, that you wrote exactly how I feel. NS isn't fun anymore and no small patch or big amount of denial fixes it. And I would also like to welcome you among the "non-player" -community, since NS1 won't change anymore. Hasn't really changed for years, in fact.
So just sit back, forget NS, find something else to do, and check back once a year to see wazzup just for the heck of it like the rest of us. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Short games aren't that bad honestly, but it is the strategy and quality that lacks currently.I do miss the way NS used to be, or used to be played at least. NS used to be a game of strategy and teamwork. That is what it needs to return to. No matter if it is a 10 min game or a 2 hour game, it needs to bring back the strategy part if it wants it public community to return.
I am also a pubber.
I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game.
One person, should not make a team win himself. I've witnessed players who play alien 99% of the time and 2 minute fade, get high kills and hope that thier team leads them to victory. We used to ask before going higher lifeforms because noone was godly enough to get 198 kills and 2 deaths before. People don't care anymore and do whatever they want nearly. I've seen the same on rines with marines getting 21 kills and 3 deaths, going straight to a hive and killing all the aliens on the way and putting up a pg in there cause he's that 1337 noone can kill him as long as comm gives him ammo and medpacks. Same as a basic skulk with no upgrades taking down a group of 2-3 marines.
NS should not be like CS and be a game of total reflexes.
Perhaps what this man was saying, was allow for a more gradual and leaniant system to where relexes are good, but strategy is better. Perhaps a compensation to someone who has a nearly steady stream of lmg bullets on a skulk that miss every once in a while while he moves, vs someone who always hits no matter what. Maybe not something that far but perhaps. Something has to equate out a balance.
me playing a fade and going against multiple marines, i blink in, scratch them, and keep doing it just like mr H4Xx0rZ. there shouldn't be a reason that he auto locks on to people nearly and takes them out over and over and gets the 198kills and 2 deaths vs me who uses the same tactic just not as fluidly scripted or not as quick to reflexes as the other guy but I only kill a few marines. There just shouldn't be that big of a skill gap in any game. But in reality there is, and there is nothing we can realistically do about it other then change the game to compensate for it somehow.
scripting bhops and leaps and blinks for semi linear paths to dodge bullets effictively make the game pointless. same as someone emptying thier pistol clip in someone in under a half of a second. It isn't fun when someone completely destroys you, in any game, and there shouldn't be so large of a skill gap in a strategic game that one player has 198 kills and 2 deaths, and i'm at 1 kill and 43 deaths. If somehow it was possible to make that ratio a 2-1 ratio for him, into a 1-2 ratio for me then i'd be happy even. NS used to be down to the wire if you won or not, in competition with the other team almost until the last breath of your team.
there are lots of things that could be done to improve the gameplay greatly as we most know though, just figuring them out and how to balance them is the key.
maybe have a constant flow of damage for players who can't aim like i described above, or some type of auto lock on indicator, where it wouldn't full lock on but would help guide you say when someone gets behind you and u get turned around liek the bhopping skulk.
have balance for every server size and something that changes the values of the game based on how many people are in it to add balance.
slower speed such as fades and skulks but lower damage on rine guns balanced to compensate for it. possibly longer regen time for fades each time they regen damage
these ar just things i came up with off the top of my head but if i thought about it, I could come up with more game balancing things.
I already know this is going to get torn apart by you CSers and quoted and flamed, forewarning, SUYF. reply to the post in its entireity and take it for its worth and intent rather then trying to flame certain aspects about it, which is the number 1 thing done incorrectly in forrums.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1618283:date=Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM:name=TheOrangeMitten)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheOrangeMitten @ Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]1618283[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't confuse you being bad with everyone that knows how to play the game being too good. This applies to every game you'll ever play online.
TheOrangeMitten, have you missed all the posts about the new blink and the +movement changes? What about the ones where aliens no longer get a 2nd hive armor bonus?
A lot of changes have been made to smooth the skill/reward curve on the alien team--but to completely remove that curve would remove all reward for skill. (And the alien team is *supposed* to be about individual skill.)
Sorry, but I have to disagree with almost your entire post. The skill curve is much smoother now, and playing fade is much more dangerous with the lower acceleration.
At some point, marines really DO need to learn to aim. (They already have a cone of fire which makes aiming easier.)
And FWIW, I am not, nor have I ever been involved in clan play.
<!--quoteo(post=1618283:date=Apr 2 2007, 04:27 AM:name=TheOrangeMitten)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheOrangeMitten @ Apr 2 2007, 04:27 AM) [snapback]1618283[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Short games aren't that bad honestly, but it is the strategy and quality that lacks currently.I do miss the way NS used to be, or used to be played at least. NS used to be a game of strategy and teamwork. That is what it needs to return to. No matter if it is a 10 min game or a 2 hour game, it needs to bring back the strategy part if it wants it public community to return.
I am also a pubber.
I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game.
One person, should not make a team win himself. I've witnessed players who play alien 99% of the time and 2 minute fade, get high kills and hope that thier team leads them to victory. We used to ask before going higher lifeforms because noone was godly enough to get 198 kills and 2 deaths before. People don't care anymore and do whatever they want nearly. I've seen the same on rines with marines getting 21 kills and 3 deaths, going straight to a hive and killing all the aliens on the way and putting up a pg in there cause he's that 1337 noone can kill him as long as comm gives him ammo and medpacks. Same as a basic skulk with no upgrades taking down a group of 2-3 marines.
NS should not be like CS and be a game of total reflexes.
Perhaps what this man was saying, was allow for a more gradual and leaniant system to where relexes are good, but strategy is better. Perhaps a compensation to someone who has a nearly steady stream of lmg bullets on a skulk that miss every once in a while while he moves, vs someone who always hits no matter what. Maybe not something that far but perhaps. Something has to equate out a balance.
me playing a fade and going against multiple marines, i blink in, scratch them, and keep doing it just like mr H4Xx0rZ. there shouldn't be a reason that he auto locks on to people nearly and takes them out over and over and gets the 198kills and 2 deaths vs me who uses the same tactic just not as fluidly scripted or not as quick to reflexes as the other guy but I only kill a few marines. There just shouldn't be that big of a skill gap in any game. But in reality there is, and there is nothing we can realistically do about it other then change the game to compensate for it somehow.
scripting bhops and leaps and blinks for semi linear paths to dodge bullets effictively make the game pointless. same as someone emptying thier pistol clip in someone in under a half of a second. It isn't fun when someone completely destroys you, in any game, and there shouldn't be so large of a skill gap in a strategic game that one player has 198 kills and 2 deaths, and i'm at 1 kill and 43 deaths. If somehow it was possible to make that ratio a 2-1 ratio for him, into a 1-2 ratio for me then i'd be happy even. NS used to be down to the wire if you won or not, in competition with the other team almost until the last breath of your team.
there are lots of things that could be done to improve the gameplay greatly as we most know though, just figuring them out and how to balance them is the key.
maybe have a constant flow of damage for players who can't aim like i described above, or some type of auto lock on indicator, where it wouldn't full lock on but would help guide you say when someone gets behind you and u get turned around liek the bhopping skulk.
have balance for every server size and something that changes the values of the game based on how many people are in it to add balance.
slower speed such as fades and skulks but lower damage on rine guns balanced to compensate for it. possibly longer regen time for fades each time they regen damage
these ar just things i came up with off the top of my head but if i thought about it, I could come up with more game balancing things.
I already know this is going to get torn apart by you CSers and quoted and flamed, forewarning, SUYF. reply to the post in its entireity and take it for its worth and intent rather then trying to flame certain aspects about it, which is the number 1 thing done incorrectly in forrums. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL post of the year.
Honestly, if Flayra just made a post about scripts on the main NS page, I think it would clear up a lot of confusion.
Okay, but seriously:
OrangeMitten, something you need to understand is that there is no such thing as a script or a macro that will make you fly through the air, dodge all bullets, and solo the other team. I can easily go 100-2 in any public CO extralevels/xmenu game or whatever as a fade, and the only script I use is a pistol script. Which is pretty pointless, since most public servers are BS1.
If you'd like to get better at NS, I would be glad to help you. Reflexes are certainly part of what makes up good aim on Marines, but thats not all it takes. 99.9 percent of people don't script their bhop (although some do use 2/3/4 jump scripts, which I think are stupid), and theres no such thing as an 'auto lock on' (unless they're aimbotting). Someone told me you're from the On|E community and your post shines of the same ignorance On|E displays on their server every day.
Please, in all honesty, have someone halfway decent teach you some things about the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1618290:date=Apr 1 2007, 10:20 PM:name=TheAdj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheAdj @ Apr 1 2007, 10:20 PM) [snapback]1618290[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Don't confuse you being bad with everyone that knows how to play the game being too good. This applies to every game you'll ever play online. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Typical response. OMG YOUR COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GAME? THEN WOOF WOOF WOOF, THAT MUST MEAN U SUX AT IT! As with you veritas. I don't have to be girl to fight for woman's rights do I? Stop making these forums less intelligent than it already is with your OMG HOO HOO I CAN SENSE UR PLAYER SKILL crap.
Ahnteis: This "aliens are supposed to be about individual play" is BS okay. If you take that logic, then you're also shoving the "MARINES USE TEAMWORK EVERYDAY" statement as well, which is crap. Marine teamwork is simply having another guy next to you to shoot extra bullets at your target. Is this teamwork? Is this any different than CS? Go play some NS. Look at how much teamwork that 32-5 score marine uses. And call skulks parasiting, gorges healing, lerks umbraing individual play as well. It's quite the opposite, buddy.
I like how they made aliens easier, but I still see a lot of people struggling to aim. I'm not sure how they would help people with this AS THEY DID WITH FADES AND +MOVEMENT, but any help would be nice.
Yes, tomekki. Let's balance NS for those magical 6v6 fantasy games that we hear so much about from you. HEY EVERYBODY LETS CLICK REFRESH SERVERS AND COUNT HOW MANY 6v6 servers there are! Your posts get worse and worse.
<!--quoteo(post=1618310:date=Apr 2 2007, 07:08 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 07:08 AM) [snapback]1618310[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Typical response. OMG YOUR COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GAME? THEN WOOF WOOF WOOF, THAT MUST MEAN U SUX AT IT! As with you veritas. I don't have to be girl to fight for woman's rights do I? Stop making these forums less intelligent than it already is with your OMG HOO HOO I CAN SENSE UR PLAYER SKILL crap.
Ahnteis: This "aliens are supposed to be about individual play" is BS okay. If you take that logic, then you're also shoving the "MARINES USE TEAMWORK EVERYDAY" statement as well, which is crap. Marine teamwork is simply having another guy next to you to shoot extra bullets at your target. Is this teamwork? Is this any different than CS? Go play some NS. Look at how much teamwork that 32-5 score marine uses. And call skulks parasiting, gorges healing, lerks umbraing individual play as well. It's quite the opposite, buddy.
I like how they made aliens easier, but I still see a lot of people struggling to aim. I'm not sure how they would help people with this AS THEY DID WITH FADES AND +MOVEMENT, but any help would be nice.
Yes, tomekki. Let's balance NS for those magical 6v6 fantasy games that we hear so much about from you. HEY EVERYBODY LETS CLICK REFRESH SERVERS AND COUNT HOW MANY 6v6 servers there are! Your posts get worse and worse. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I get 20+ people to tell you to stop talking will you promise to never post on these forums again
<!--quoteo(post=1618314:date=Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrueVeritas @ Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]1618314[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If I get 20+ people to tell you to stop talking will you promise to never post on these forums again <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then that tells me that these 20 people are stuckup and can't sitdown and listen to a pubber's story, instead questioning the skill of the poster, which of course is irrelevant to the topic.
I mean do you think people enjoy reading this kind of feedback?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't confuse you being bad with everyone that knows how to play the game being too good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LOL post of the year.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please, in all honesty, have someone halfway decent teach you some things about the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->orange mitten is the perfect case example of why you shouldnt go and balance the game around public games<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1618318:date=Apr 2 2007, 07:33 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 07:33 AM) [snapback]1618318[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Then that tells me that these 20 people are stuckup and can't sitdown and listen to a pubber's story, instead questioning the skill of the poster, which of course is irrelevant to the topic.
I mean do you think people enjoy reading this kind of feedback?
I'll stop when this stops, it's simple. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everything you have ever said has met the same response: Get better at this game. I would be happy to teach you.
If you're a pubber, the best change you'll ever make in your ENTIRE NS career is binding +movement to mouse 2. It's mostly used for fade, but you'll fade like a god.
If you are a skulk, I'd try to get into areas with lots of twisting corners and get the marine there. If you are in a fight, I'd say it's better not to jump. So easy 2 tips:
- fight in tight areas - don't jump in fights
Then go fade, add +movement and dominate.
As for marines, aiming is all you'll ever do.
This might be 1% of NS, while the other 99% is how fast you can move your hand and click. You know what, go practice reflex exercises. Drop a ruler and see how long it takes for you to catch it. Or when you play NS, go drink Bawls.
I wish I could help those who do feel downbeat from this game, but that's something that has to be fixed internally.
If you're a pubber, the best change you'll ever make in your ENTIRE NS career is binding +movement to mouse 2. It's mostly used for fade, but you'll fade like a god.
If you are a skulk, I'd try to get into areas with lots of twisting corners and get the marine there. If you are in a fight, I'd say it's better not to jump. So easy 2 tips:
- fight in tight areas - don't jump in fights
Then go fade, add +movement and dominate.
As for marines, aiming is all you'll ever do.
This might be 1% of NS, while the other 99% is how fast you can move your hand and click. You know what, go practice reflex exercises. Drop a ruler and see how long it takes for you to catch it. Or when you play NS, go drink Bawls.
I wish I could help those who do feel downbeat from this game, but that's something that has to be fixed internally. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. +movement doesn't make you fade like a god. It DOES however make fading a lot easier. 2. I agree that reflexes are part of aiming with marines, but playing the game well is far from just having good reflexes.
Do you list hypocritical as a personality trait, smood? Because you should, put it right after ignorant.
Look okay, get this into your head, every person here who is a clanner is also a pubber. We've all played your pubbers story where you get trashed by players better than you, it happens to <b>everyone</b> who starts <b>any</b> game. The reason you won't find any sympathy for dumbing the game down from us because we don't quite grasp how you can not figure it out as it is right now. We took the same beatings too, played the same scenarios, got spawn camped, got base rocked by the godlike fade, here's the thing though: we were just clever enough to learn from them and not at the expense of fun; improving ourselves and then being able to beat people who trashed us was a far more enjoyable and rewarding experience than allowing ourselves to get ruined game after game. It's far more fun to put people in the spawn queue than to be in it. That's why we just say get better at the game, because that's all we did. We didn't come to the forums going marines too this fades too that he hacks i want to play against bad players it'd be more fun, we just played, learnt and had fun. As the public community has shrunk so has the competitive one.
Whilst I admire your notion of making the game easier and detracting from FPS skill, this is an FPS game. As long as the commander players with real people as his units, as long as the skill of your fades, lerks and the dropping of your hive is random and controlled by people, you cannot expect that in a public arena. That is what public play is, that is what makes competitive play stick out, that is why in very definition you would look to balance in an area where the variables such as player skill are reasonably controlled, rather than an arena where it's potluck who wins what round. I join marines and win 3 rounds, then aliens and win 3 rounds on a public server and the game is not balanced. Just accept that public play is like that, it has done no harm to counterstrike, wow or DoD. Clanners join servers and get banned for aimbotting but their community is still huge.
Changes should be made to make the game more accessible, not to segregate the community and dumb down skills.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited April 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1618318:date=Apr 2 2007, 03:33 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 03:33 AM) [snapback]1618318[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Then that tells me that these 20 people are stuckup and can't sitdown and listen to a pubber's story, instead questioning the skill of the poster, which of course is irrelevant to the topic.
I mean do you think people enjoy reading this kind of feedback?
I'll stop when this stops, it's simple. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Buddy I've been listening to "a pubber's story" for 4+ years now. The ones that stick around and try to learn about the game eventually go "Oh <i><b>wow</b></i> I get it." After that, they they don't play so badly because they understand the game and actually go play the game well instead of posting on internet forums about how the game isn't strategic or this or that, which is quite untrue. If someone wants help on the game, I can set them straight on how the game works in about an hour or so, hit me up on forum PM or in IRC, I am always willing to take time out of my day to show someone how to play better. They still won't be good at NS in an hour, but they'll at least understand a lot more. Get off your (self-imposed, unearned) self-righteous horse acting like you're the speaker for newbs in ns.
<!--quoteo(post=1618310:date=Apr 2 2007, 03:08 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 03:08 AM) [snapback]1618310[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Typical response. OMG YOUR COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GAME? THEN WOOF WOOF WOOF, THAT MUST MEAN U SUX AT IT! As with you veritas. I don't have to be girl to fight for woman's rights do I? Stop making these forums less intelligent than it already is with your OMG HOO HOO I CAN SENSE UR PLAYER SKILL crap. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
About all of your posts are just spam, you do nothing to try and contribute to a solution. If you do not have anything constructive to say, then do not say anything at all.
I just... I don't know where to start on this post. Might as well just disect it.
<!--quoteo(post=1618283:date=Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM:name=TheOrangeMitten)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheOrangeMitten @ Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]1618283[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Short games aren't that bad honestly, but it is the strategy and quality that lacks currently.I do miss the way NS used to be, or used to be played at least. NS used to be a game of strategy and teamwork. That is what it needs to return to. No matter if it is a 10 min game or a 2 hour game, it needs to bring back the strategy part if it wants it public community to return.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It still is a game of strategy and teamwork. Some things just get distorted when you add a player of skill to one team without one on another team to balance it out. Just because people like Makeveli go marines 99% and win 80% of the time doesn't mean marines are overpowered. It just means that they don't like playing aliens on pubs due to having to rely on teammates. That's why I like having my clan stack against him in pubs and rage him with our gorge power.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am also a pubber.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it incredible that you feel you have to state this. Anyone that plays the game in a non-competitive setting can be considered a pubber. Since people that play competitively also play in pubs, everyone that plays this game is a pubber. You people, not just you OrangeMitten, don't seem to realize that everyone just starting out in any game is going to be owned by players better than them. I remember when I first starting playing Counter-Strike, I thought half the people on the servers hacked. After a month or so, I was able to start beating them. Another two months and most of the people I played with starting to think I hacked. I felt like I was hacking right after I got my new computer and actually got over 30 FPS. Starting off in a new game is hard. Sticking with it shows you have the balls to learn from your mistakes and improve at something.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game.
One person, should not make a team win himself. I've witnessed players who play alien 99% of the time and 2 minute fade, get high kills and hope that thier team leads them to victory. We used to ask before going higher lifeforms because noone was godly enough to get 198 kills and 2 deaths before. People don't care anymore and do whatever they want nearly. I've seen the same on rines with marines getting 21 kills and 3 deaths, going straight to a hive and killing all the aliens on the way and putting up a pg in there cause he's that 1337 noone can kill him as long as comm gives him ammo and medpacks. Same as a basic skulk with no upgrades taking down a group of 2-3 marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>One player by themselves cannot win the game.</b> Everyone needs their teammates to win. The RTS portion of Natural Selection demands this. One player can indeed affect the game, but they cannot win it solo. On marines a player needs the commander to drop them meds, ammo, structures, weapons, and get them upgrades. They also need their teammates to build the nodes if they're off doing whatever. On aliens, a player can go 2 minute fade and die right away because they don't have chambers. Also, there's no way that they got 2 minute fade without their teammates dropping nodes. This would be evidence of a little something called teamwork. Teamwork doesn't just happen when you're fighting the other team; it happens throughout the game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS should not be like CS and be a game of total reflexes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a FPS/RTS, NS should not be totally reliant on reflexes. And it isn't. Reflexes only get you so far. The game is so complex that reflexes probably won't do you much good without strategy and tactics. Positioning yourself in the right part of the room and blocking the fade when he's leaving is far more effective and has a much greater impact than just being able to shoot. Knowing where you're going to be needed and getting there before it's too late is more important than killing 5 skulks in a row. The problem is that most people don't notice the positioning and timing. They just see someone kill a fade in 4 shots with a shotgun, and then a lerk and 2 skulks without reloading and think, "OMG that guy is good."
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps what this man was saying, was allow for a more gradual and leaniant system to where relexes are good, but strategy is better. Perhaps a compensation to someone who has a nearly steady stream of lmg bullets on a skulk that miss every once in a while while he moves, vs someone who always hits no matter what. Maybe not something that far but perhaps. Something has to equate out a balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, this is an FPS/RTS. Skill matters in an FPS. If you want something thats all strategy, go play Starcraft. Then again, skill matters there too. Scouting, adapting, and micro and macromanagement are all skills players learn. <b>In an online game, skill is always going to matter.</b> Wanting it to be different is like wanting pigs to grow wings and fly, or wanting the whole world to embrace one religion. Simply put, it's never going to happen.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->me playing a fade and going against multiple marines, i blink in, scratch them, and keep doing it just like mr H4Xx0rZ. there shouldn't be a reason that he auto locks on to people nearly and takes them out over and over and gets the 198kills and 2 deaths vs me who uses the same tactic just not as fluidly scripted or not as quick to reflexes as the other guy but I only kill a few marines. There just shouldn't be that big of a skill gap in any game. But in reality there is, and there is nothing we can realistically do about it other then change the game to compensate for it somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless you're aimbotting, then there are no "auto locks". It just means that they player can aim their swipes really well, predict the marine's movement and aim ahead of them, or any number of other things. I'd like to point out that scripting is not the advantage everyone makes it out to be. All scripts do is help you time your jumps better when you're bunnyhopping, or fire your pistol a little faster. Both of these things can be accomplished by binding your mousewheel to +jump or +attack. And for some reason binding your mousewheel is acceptable whereas scripting is not. They're exactly the same thing.
Its very easy to get a ratio like that. You just don't take risks. Don't stay in trying to kill a marine when there are 2 others in the room. Blink in and out taking swipes and don't hit the walls. Blink over them and stop above their head, turn around, blink down and swipe them. Its that easy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->scripting bhops and leaps and blinks for semi linear paths to dodge bullets effictively make the game pointless. same as someone emptying thier pistol clip in someone in under a half of a second. It isn't fun when someone completely destroys you, in any game, and there shouldn't be so large of a skill gap in a strategic game that one player has 198 kills and 2 deaths, and i'm at 1 kill and 43 deaths. If somehow it was possible to make that ratio a 2-1 ratio for him, into a 1-2 ratio for me then i'd be happy even. NS used to be down to the wire if you won or not, in competition with the other team almost until the last breath of your team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no idea what you're talking about here. No, its not fun when someone completely destroys you. The community is so small that there really aren't any servers to run and hide from the leetsauce players in though. Play CS enough and you'll come across a CAL-I players who single-handedly destroys your entire team round after round. In NS, you just come across these players more because of the small number of servers. Once again, NS is not only a strategic game. Since it is an FPS game, skill is going to matter.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there are lots of things that could be done to improve the gameplay greatly as we most know though, just figuring them out and how to balance them is the key.
maybe have a constant flow of damage for players who can't aim like i described above, or some type of auto lock on indicator, where it wouldn't full lock on but would help guide you say when someone gets behind you and u get turned around liek the bhopping skulk.
have balance for every server size and something that changes the values of the game based on how many people are in it to add balance.
slower speed such as fades and skulks but lower damage on rine guns balanced to compensate for it. possibly longer regen time for fades each time they regen damage
these ar just things i came up with off the top of my head but if i thought about it, I could come up with more game balancing things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of this is going to work. And, quite frankly, I'm tired of debunking the same ideas over and over. If you want to be taken seriously, at least post some pros and cons of your idea and how you think they'll impact the game. Typing in complete sentences complete with capitalization and punctuation would also help immensly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already know this is going to get torn apart by you CSers and quoted and flamed, forewarning, SUYF. reply to the post in its entireity and take it for its worth and intent rather then trying to flame certain aspects about it, which is the number 1 thing done incorrectly in forrums. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There, I replied to your entire post. I hope you like it. I don't know where you get the idea that we're all "CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone." And it disgusts me that you lump competitive players in with CS players and aimbotters. I don't know which comparision I hate more.
EDIT: I forgot to reply to our most dearing friend, Smood.
If you're a pubber, the best change you'll ever make in your ENTIRE NS career is binding +movement to mouse 2. It's mostly used for fade, but you'll fade like a god.
If you are a skulk, I'd try to get into areas with lots of twisting corners and get the marine there. If you are in a fight, I'd say it's better not to jump. So easy 2 tips:
- fight in tight areas - don't jump in fights
Then go fade, add +movement and dominate.
As for marines, aiming is all you'll ever do.
This might be 1% of NS, while the other 99% is how fast you can move your hand and click. You know what, go practice reflex exercises. Drop a ruler and see how long it takes for you to catch it. Or when you play NS, go drink Bawls.
I wish I could help those who do feel downbeat from this game, but that's something that has to be fixed internally. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You flip-flop more than a fish on dry land. First you say the game needs to be dumbed down so it's easier for everyone to aim. Then you say to go practice reflexes and learn to aim. You're just so frustrating that words cannot describe it. Therefore, I shall use a smilie. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I don't see how making mouse2 default bound to +movement will change anything. People bind keys to what they're comfortable with. For instance, I know of very few people that, like me, use ESDF for movement. And then I have my pistol script bound to V. My keys are so weirdly set up that my hand aches when I play in matches since I use LALT as my Ventrilo talk key, my thumb is bent below my hand 75% of the time. The best change anyone will make is to get away from default key binds and set them up so they're comfortable to you. Telling anyone that binding a specific action to a specific key is ridiculous.
As for your skulking tips, try this:
-Fight in tight areas -Jump in fights sometimes, but never against a shotgunner
Tight areas give the advantage to skulks. Fades, lerks, and onos less so. The worst place to fight as a skulk against a marine is a wide open room. Jumping in fights works for me all the time. Yes, sometimes it gets me killed. But most often I take a marine or two with me. The biggest skulk tip I can give is to never hold down your bite key when you're attacking marines. Aim your bites and keep moving. Trying to play when your screen is eclipsed by teeth 40% of the time is a bad idea.
I like how you claim you know how to play, then give bad advice, then try to play it off like someone else said it. Try finding one side of any arguement and sticking to it instead of this back and forth thing you do.
I sympathize with OrangeMitten as I have seen players come in and, no, not directly "win" the game, but strongly dictate the direction it goes in. The times I've played combat with Golden the game has basically sided with whichever team he's on, unless his team is utter trash; many times I've seen players like Golden or meb join a team and have 10:1 K-D ratio, whereas the rest of the team has K-D < 1.
While I think this is an issue, not directly a problem, I don't think a rapid standardization of skill levels will create the proper answer; I, for one, enjoying getting my ###### whooped by someone like Golden (hmmm that came out wrong). But there are people who don't enjoy this challange, and enjoy only to have "fair" and "even" games. These players tend to conglomerate with one another on their own servers, and thus they find these "fair" and "even" games, kicking and banning those who throw off the balance.
As I've mentioned before, I think the problem here is that as time has gone on, the number of good NS servers has declined. People like Golden become e-homeless and are left to wander the streets of the interweb looking for a place to get a fix, I mean game. Thus, these "competetive" players are left to play every now and then on these "fair" servers where they tend to dominate.
Smood seems to like the idea of forcing standardization upon players, but I've already mentioned my concern with this. In fact, I feel the Smood might actually be sort of right; clans and such come from a sort of standardization amongst players in servers; people of equal skill form dirty highway bands and ragtag upon each other. But frankly, with the loss of CAL and the NSA Veteran Server, for example, these bands become harder to form as standardization becomes harder to enforce due to hte lack of servers, which in turn reduces the sample size. It is thus my opinion that if more servers were introduced that cater to these NS gods that these players will not "bother" those who so actively seek "even" and "fair" games.
<!--quoteo(post=1617887:date=Mar 30 2007, 12:42 PM:name=ubermensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ubermensch @ Mar 30 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]1617887[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> just described a most of the personalities in competitive ns (think of people like makaveli, chuckerz) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I realize I've been a ###### to pubbers a while ago. I've been trying to have a better attitude, but sometimes I just get too damn frusterated. Sorry.
Comments
BTW your long ###### posts have given me a headache <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
They are the staple of NS. Its kindof funny, because a lot of the 'classic, best' maps, if they were released now instead of when we all began NS and everything was new... well, i doubt they'd get anywhere near the same critical acclaim.
But, because everyone did grow up on them, we do love them, and it rubs off onto newbies. Some maps even emulate their straight-forwardness, like Lucid (though lucid has its own completely original style of room architecture... i'm talking about general lack of cover and basic layouts).
We definitely are seeing a new breed of NS map; Machina and Shiva are prime examples. Far more intricate designs, crossovers, vents, and dynamics. Its the same conceptual approach I took with Nexus, but sadly it wont be fully realized and properly playable until I fix some of the other issues in it, which should hopefully be done in the next version.
Most of the people in competitive ns don't act like Mak or Chuck.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yea, like grepdash who only joins marines and rage quits when aliens are winning.
Stix, again, you seem to think if the Lakers played against a high school team, it's going to be fair and exciting game. There's a reason why clanners scrim against other clans. It would be useless for them to scrim against random pubs. They would be easting their time on a team that's not organized, or better yet, a team that's not at their level.
Again, it's the same reason why we don't give the midterm on the first day of school. You give people challenges that are at their level. What's the point in playing a game of football if you're team has already lost? What's the point in watching a game that's decided?
Perhaps you like playing 3 minute games that end with electrifying the hive, or a hour long game where marines never leave MS. Or you can go ahead and flip a coin if you want. Maybe that will satisfy your desire for instant wins or losses. I for one like a game where teams are fairly even to provide the tightest, closest games.
Handicaps and auto-team are just ideas. But their goal is the same: to provide games where team skills are even. Look at the goal and tell me if it's wrong. I for one do not like games that are decided in 5 minutes.
And yes, we can remove the old maps, if they have significant problems. It makes better games in servers and then we can bond with these better maps like eclipse, tanith or veil. If we were to follow your philosophy Stix, we would have never removed babblers, phermones or would not have +movement.
I don't think anybody is disagreeing with your intended result - it's your suggested methodology which people are arguing with.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Okay... then I don't see the point of arguing.
I want that goal too, but I haven't thought up of any other ways besides the ones I've listed. Perhaps if you have your own idea to get to this goal, I'd be 200% for it. But I don't see anybody throwing things around.
Basically, you can't even pretend to be able to automatically match a player's skill in an FPS on the PC, with one possible exception; when there is a master server program. As in, not independent servers, but the game company's own, that you connect to, and play through. We will never see this in NS, nor do we want to.
So if you want to complain about player skill imbalance, try a different approach.
Perhaps the only one i can think of, is to change the dynamic of the readyroom. Instead of being a free-for-all team joining spree, the devs could change it so that two players become the captains of each team.
How they would go about selecting this, i dont know, and it would probably get messy now and then. But from there, these captains would pick their teams one by one, and those players would be forced onto that team.
IMO this is pretty much the ONLY way to ensure relatively balanced teams in this kind of gaming environment. If you can think up something else, something *FEASIBLE*, go ahead.
<!--quoteo(post=1617932:date=Mar 30 2007, 09:27 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 30 2007, 09:27 PM) [snapback]1617932[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
And yes, we can remove the old maps, if they have significant problems. It makes better games in servers and then we can bond with these better maps like eclipse, tanith or veil. If we were to follow your philosophy Stix, we would have never removed babblers, phermones or would not have +movement.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no idea where this comment came from. I was saying we CANT remove the old maps, and the maps that i considered old and with their share of flaws, were exactly the ones you mentioned as the better ones.
I dont know how 'my philosophy' on the game being balanced leads to us never having removed two retarded pieces of the game, nor implementing the best feature yet. Feel free to explain.
Accept that public play means anyone can join and do what they want. It's hardly been damaging for CS, has it.
I posted it somewhere else but i'm too lazy to find it.
Basically, you can't even pretend to be able to automatically match a player's skill in an FPS on the PC, with one possible exception; when there is a master server program. As in, not independent servers, but the game company's own, that you connect to, and play through. We will never see this in NS, nor do we want to.
So if you want to complain about player skill imbalance, try a different approach.
Perhaps the only one i can think of, is to change the dynamic of the readyroom. Instead of being a free-for-all team joining spree, the devs could change it so that two players become the captains of each team.
How they would go about selecting this, i dont know, and it would probably get messy now and then. But from there, these captains would pick their teams one by one, and those players would be forced onto that team.
IMO this is pretty much the ONLY way to ensure relatively balanced teams in this kind of gaming environment. If you can think up something else, something *FEASIBLE*, go ahead.
I have no idea where this comment came from. I was saying we CANT remove the old maps, and the maps that i considered old and with their share of flaws, were exactly the ones you mentioned as the better ones.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of ranking players by skill and locking servers that are highly distant away from their current rank. They should always be able to play "one up" from their current skill though, so as to improve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now we are getting somewhere.
Stix, when you are choosing players, would the players have any indicators of their performance? Or would it just be manual choosing?
And Harrower, I like that idea, but I'm not sure what sort of system could hold the "ranks" of the players and if there are enough players, let alone servers to accomplish this.
I think we have to work from throwing everyone in the same basket. That's because we have such a small pool of players and servers to work with.
There, I said it.
And yes, the new maps need to be played more often, I'm getting tired of the votemaps to the most played old maps, instead of the newer ones.
I just wanted to say, now that you dragged me out to say anything at all, that you wrote exactly how I feel. NS isn't fun anymore and no small patch or big amount of denial fixes it. And I would also like to welcome you among the "non-player" -community, since NS1 won't change anymore. Hasn't really changed for years, in fact.
So just sit back, forget NS, find something else to do, and check back once a year to see wazzup just for the heck of it like the rest of us. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I am also a pubber.
I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game.
One person, should not make a team win himself. I've witnessed players who play alien 99% of the time and 2 minute fade, get high kills and hope that thier team leads them to victory. We used to ask before going higher lifeforms because noone was godly enough to get 198 kills and 2 deaths before. People don't care anymore and do whatever they want nearly. I've seen the same on rines with marines getting 21 kills and 3 deaths, going straight to a hive and killing all the aliens on the way and putting up a pg in there cause he's that 1337 noone can kill him as long as comm gives him ammo and medpacks. Same as a basic skulk with no upgrades taking down a group of 2-3 marines.
NS should not be like CS and be a game of total reflexes.
Perhaps what this man was saying, was allow for a more gradual and leaniant system to where relexes are good, but strategy is better. Perhaps a compensation to someone who has a nearly steady stream of lmg bullets on a skulk that miss every once in a while while he moves, vs someone who always hits no matter what. Maybe not something that far but perhaps. Something has to equate out a balance.
me playing a fade and going against multiple marines, i blink in, scratch them, and keep doing it just like mr H4Xx0rZ. there shouldn't be a reason that he auto locks on to people nearly and takes them out over and over and gets the 198kills and 2 deaths vs me who uses the same tactic just not as fluidly scripted or not as quick to reflexes as the other guy but I only kill a few marines. There just shouldn't be that big of a skill gap in any game. But in reality there is, and there is nothing we can realistically do about it other then change the game to compensate for it somehow.
scripting bhops and leaps and blinks for semi linear paths to dodge bullets effictively make the game pointless. same as someone emptying thier pistol clip in someone in under a half of a second. It isn't fun when someone completely destroys you, in any game, and there shouldn't be so large of a skill gap in a strategic game that one player has 198 kills and 2 deaths, and i'm at 1 kill and 43 deaths. If somehow it was possible to make that ratio a 2-1 ratio for him, into a 1-2 ratio for me then i'd be happy even. NS used to be down to the wire if you won or not, in competition with the other team almost until the last breath of your team.
there are lots of things that could be done to improve the gameplay greatly as we most know though, just figuring them out and how to balance them is the key.
maybe have a constant flow of damage for players who can't aim like i described above, or some type of auto lock on indicator, where it wouldn't full lock on but would help guide you say when someone gets behind you and u get turned around liek the bhopping skulk.
have balance for every server size and something that changes the values of the game based on how many people are in it to add balance.
slower speed such as fades and skulks but lower damage on rine guns balanced to compensate for it. possibly longer regen time for fades each time they regen damage
these ar just things i came up with off the top of my head but if i thought about it, I could come up with more game balancing things.
I already know this is going to get torn apart by you CSers and quoted and flamed, forewarning, SUYF. reply to the post in its entireity and take it for its worth and intent rather then trying to flame certain aspects about it, which is the number 1 thing done incorrectly in forrums.
I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't confuse you being bad with everyone that knows how to play the game being too good. This applies to every game you'll ever play online.
A lot of changes have been made to smooth the skill/reward curve on the alien team--but to completely remove that curve would remove all reward for skill. (And the alien team is *supposed* to be about individual skill.)
Sorry, but I have to disagree with almost your entire post. The skill curve is much smoother now, and playing fade is much more dangerous with the lower acceleration.
At some point, marines really DO need to learn to aim. (They already have a cone of fire which makes aiming easier.)
And FWIW, I am not, nor have I ever been involved in clan play.
Short games aren't that bad honestly, but it is the strategy and quality that lacks currently.I do miss the way NS used to be, or used to be played at least. NS used to be a game of strategy and teamwork. That is what it needs to return to. No matter if it is a 10 min game or a 2 hour game, it needs to bring back the strategy part if it wants it public community to return.
I am also a pubber.
I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game.
One person, should not make a team win himself. I've witnessed players who play alien 99% of the time and 2 minute fade, get high kills and hope that thier team leads them to victory. We used to ask before going higher lifeforms because noone was godly enough to get 198 kills and 2 deaths before. People don't care anymore and do whatever they want nearly. I've seen the same on rines with marines getting 21 kills and 3 deaths, going straight to a hive and killing all the aliens on the way and putting up a pg in there cause he's that 1337 noone can kill him as long as comm gives him ammo and medpacks. Same as a basic skulk with no upgrades taking down a group of 2-3 marines.
NS should not be like CS and be a game of total reflexes.
Perhaps what this man was saying, was allow for a more gradual and leaniant system to where relexes are good, but strategy is better. Perhaps a compensation to someone who has a nearly steady stream of lmg bullets on a skulk that miss every once in a while while he moves, vs someone who always hits no matter what. Maybe not something that far but perhaps. Something has to equate out a balance.
me playing a fade and going against multiple marines, i blink in, scratch them, and keep doing it just like mr H4Xx0rZ. there shouldn't be a reason that he auto locks on to people nearly and takes them out over and over and gets the 198kills and 2 deaths vs me who uses the same tactic just not as fluidly scripted or not as quick to reflexes as the other guy but I only kill a few marines. There just shouldn't be that big of a skill gap in any game. But in reality there is, and there is nothing we can realistically do about it other then change the game to compensate for it somehow.
scripting bhops and leaps and blinks for semi linear paths to dodge bullets effictively make the game pointless. same as someone emptying thier pistol clip in someone in under a half of a second. It isn't fun when someone completely destroys you, in any game, and there shouldn't be so large of a skill gap in a strategic game that one player has 198 kills and 2 deaths, and i'm at 1 kill and 43 deaths. If somehow it was possible to make that ratio a 2-1 ratio for him, into a 1-2 ratio for me then i'd be happy even. NS used to be down to the wire if you won or not, in competition with the other team almost until the last breath of your team.
there are lots of things that could be done to improve the gameplay greatly as we most know though, just figuring them out and how to balance them is the key.
maybe have a constant flow of damage for players who can't aim like i described above, or some type of auto lock on indicator, where it wouldn't full lock on but would help guide you say when someone gets behind you and u get turned around liek the bhopping skulk.
have balance for every server size and something that changes the values of the game based on how many people are in it to add balance.
slower speed such as fades and skulks but lower damage on rine guns balanced to compensate for it. possibly longer regen time for fades each time they regen damage
these ar just things i came up with off the top of my head but if i thought about it, I could come up with more game balancing things.
I already know this is going to get torn apart by you CSers and quoted and flamed, forewarning, SUYF. reply to the post in its entireity and take it for its worth and intent rather then trying to flame certain aspects about it, which is the number 1 thing done incorrectly in forrums.
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LOL post of the year.
Honestly, if Flayra just made a post about scripts on the main NS page, I think it would clear up a lot of confusion.
Okay, but seriously:
OrangeMitten, something you need to understand is that there is no such thing as a script or a macro that will make you fly through the air, dodge all bullets, and solo the other team. I can easily go 100-2 in any public CO extralevels/xmenu game or whatever as a fade, and the only script I use is a pistol script. Which is pretty pointless, since most public servers are BS1.
If you'd like to get better at NS, I would be glad to help you. Reflexes are certainly part of what makes up good aim on Marines, but thats not all it takes. 99.9 percent of people don't script their bhop (although some do use 2/3/4 jump scripts, which I think are stupid), and theres no such thing as an 'auto lock on' (unless they're aimbotting). Someone told me you're from the On|E community and your post shines of the same ignorance On|E displays on their server every day.
Please, in all honesty, have someone halfway decent teach you some things about the game.
Don't confuse you being bad with everyone that knows how to play the game being too good. This applies to every game you'll ever play online.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Typical response. OMG YOUR COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GAME? THEN WOOF WOOF WOOF, THAT MUST MEAN U SUX AT IT! As with you veritas. I don't have to be girl to fight for woman's rights do I? Stop making these forums less intelligent than it already is with your OMG HOO HOO I CAN SENSE UR PLAYER SKILL crap.
Ahnteis: This "aliens are supposed to be about individual play" is BS okay. If you take that logic, then you're also shoving the "MARINES USE TEAMWORK EVERYDAY" statement as well, which is crap. Marine teamwork is simply having another guy next to you to shoot extra bullets at your target. Is this teamwork? Is this any different than CS? Go play some NS. Look at how much teamwork that 32-5 score marine uses. And call skulks parasiting, gorges healing, lerks umbraing individual play as well. It's quite the opposite, buddy.
I like how they made aliens easier, but I still see a lot of people struggling to aim. I'm not sure how they would help people with this AS THEY DID WITH FADES AND +MOVEMENT, but any help would be nice.
Yes, tomekki. Let's balance NS for those magical 6v6 fantasy games that we hear so much about from you. HEY EVERYBODY LETS CLICK REFRESH SERVERS AND COUNT HOW MANY 6v6 servers there are! Your posts get worse and worse.
Typical response. OMG YOUR COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GAME? THEN WOOF WOOF WOOF, THAT MUST MEAN U SUX AT IT! As with you veritas. I don't have to be girl to fight for woman's rights do I? Stop making these forums less intelligent than it already is with your OMG HOO HOO I CAN SENSE UR PLAYER SKILL crap.
Ahnteis: This "aliens are supposed to be about individual play" is BS okay. If you take that logic, then you're also shoving the "MARINES USE TEAMWORK EVERYDAY" statement as well, which is crap. Marine teamwork is simply having another guy next to you to shoot extra bullets at your target. Is this teamwork? Is this any different than CS? Go play some NS. Look at how much teamwork that 32-5 score marine uses. And call skulks parasiting, gorges healing, lerks umbraing individual play as well. It's quite the opposite, buddy.
I like how they made aliens easier, but I still see a lot of people struggling to aim. I'm not sure how they would help people with this AS THEY DID WITH FADES AND +MOVEMENT, but any help would be nice.
Yes, tomekki. Let's balance NS for those magical 6v6 fantasy games that we hear so much about from you. HEY EVERYBODY LETS CLICK REFRESH SERVERS AND COUNT HOW MANY 6v6 servers there are! Your posts get worse and worse.
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If I get 20+ people to tell you to stop talking will you promise to never post on these forums again
If I get 20+ people to tell you to stop talking will you promise to never post on these forums again
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Then that tells me that these 20 people are stuckup and can't sitdown and listen to a pubber's story, instead questioning the skill of the poster, which of course is irrelevant to the topic.
I mean do you think people enjoy reading this kind of feedback?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't confuse you being bad with everyone that knows how to play the game being too good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LOL post of the year.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please, in all honesty, have someone halfway decent teach you some things about the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->orange mitten is the perfect case example of why you shouldnt go and balance the game around public games<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll stop when this stops, it's simple.
Then that tells me that these 20 people are stuckup and can't sitdown and listen to a pubber's story, instead questioning the skill of the poster, which of course is irrelevant to the topic.
I mean do you think people enjoy reading this kind of feedback?
I'll stop when this stops, it's simple.
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Everything you have ever said has met the same response: Get better at this game. I would be happy to teach you.
If you're a pubber, the best change you'll ever make in your ENTIRE NS career is binding +movement to mouse 2. It's mostly used for fade, but you'll fade like a god.
If you are a skulk, I'd try to get into areas with lots of twisting corners and get the marine there. If you are in a fight, I'd say it's better not to jump. So easy 2 tips:
- fight in tight areas
- don't jump in fights
Then go fade, add +movement and dominate.
As for marines, aiming is all you'll ever do.
This might be 1% of NS, while the other 99% is how fast you can move your hand and click. You know what, go practice reflex exercises. Drop a ruler and see how long it takes for you to catch it. Or when you play NS, go drink Bawls.
I wish I could help those who do feel downbeat from this game, but that's something that has to be fixed internally.
*swats a fly*
If you're a pubber, the best change you'll ever make in your ENTIRE NS career is binding +movement to mouse 2. It's mostly used for fade, but you'll fade like a god.
If you are a skulk, I'd try to get into areas with lots of twisting corners and get the marine there. If you are in a fight, I'd say it's better not to jump. So easy 2 tips:
- fight in tight areas
- don't jump in fights
Then go fade, add +movement and dominate.
As for marines, aiming is all you'll ever do.
This might be 1% of NS, while the other 99% is how fast you can move your hand and click. You know what, go practice reflex exercises. Drop a ruler and see how long it takes for you to catch it. Or when you play NS, go drink Bawls.
I wish I could help those who do feel downbeat from this game, but that's something that has to be fixed internally.
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1. +movement doesn't make you fade like a god. It DOES however make fading a lot easier.
2. I agree that reflexes are part of aiming with marines, but playing the game well is far from just having good reflexes.
Look okay, get this into your head, every person here who is a clanner is also a pubber. We've all played your pubbers story where you get trashed by players better than you, it happens to <b>everyone</b> who starts <b>any</b> game. The reason you won't find any sympathy for dumbing the game down from us because we don't quite grasp how you can not figure it out as it is right now. We took the same beatings too, played the same scenarios, got spawn camped, got base rocked by the godlike fade, here's the thing though: we were just clever enough to learn from them and not at the expense of fun; improving ourselves and then being able to beat people who trashed us was a far more enjoyable and rewarding experience than allowing ourselves to get ruined game after game. It's far more fun to put people in the spawn queue than to be in it. That's why we just say get better at the game, because that's all we did. We didn't come to the forums going marines too this fades too that he hacks i want to play against bad players it'd be more fun, we just played, learnt and had fun. As the public community has shrunk so has the competitive one.
Whilst I admire your notion of making the game easier and detracting from FPS skill, this is an FPS game. As long as the commander players with real people as his units, as long as the skill of your fades, lerks and the dropping of your hive is random and controlled by people, you cannot expect that in a public arena. That is what public play is, that is what makes competitive play stick out, that is why in very definition you would look to balance in an area where the variables such as player skill are reasonably controlled, rather than an arena where it's potluck who wins what round. I join marines and win 3 rounds, then aliens and win 3 rounds on a public server and the game is not balanced. Just accept that public play is like that, it has done no harm to counterstrike, wow or DoD. Clanners join servers and get banned for aimbotting but their community is still huge.
Changes should be made to make the game more accessible, not to segregate the community and dumb down skills.
Then that tells me that these 20 people are stuckup and can't sitdown and listen to a pubber's story, instead questioning the skill of the poster, which of course is irrelevant to the topic.
I mean do you think people enjoy reading this kind of feedback?
I'll stop when this stops, it's simple.
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Buddy I've been listening to "a pubber's story" for 4+ years now. The ones that stick around and try to learn about the game eventually go "Oh <i><b>wow</b></i> I get it." After that, they they don't play so badly because they understand the game and actually go play the game well instead of posting on internet forums about how the game isn't strategic or this or that, which is quite untrue. If someone wants help on the game, I can set them straight on how the game works in about an hour or so, hit me up on forum PM or in IRC, I am always willing to take time out of my day to show someone how to play better. They still won't be good at NS in an hour, but they'll at least understand a lot more. Get off your (self-imposed, unearned) self-righteous horse acting like you're the speaker for newbs in ns.
Typical response. OMG YOUR COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GAME? THEN WOOF WOOF WOOF, THAT MUST MEAN U SUX AT IT! As with you veritas. I don't have to be girl to fight for woman's rights do I? Stop making these forums less intelligent than it already is with your OMG HOO HOO I CAN SENSE UR PLAYER SKILL crap.
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About all of your posts are just spam, you do nothing to try and contribute to a solution. If you do not have anything constructive to say, then do not say anything at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1618283:date=Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM:name=TheOrangeMitten)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheOrangeMitten @ Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]1618283[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Short games aren't that bad honestly, but it is the strategy and quality that lacks currently.I do miss the way NS used to be, or used to be played at least. NS used to be a game of strategy and teamwork. That is what it needs to return to. No matter if it is a 10 min game or a 2 hour game, it needs to bring back the strategy part if it wants it public community to return.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It still is a game of strategy and teamwork. Some things just get distorted when you add a player of skill to one team without one on another team to balance it out. Just because people like Makeveli go marines 99% and win 80% of the time doesn't mean marines are overpowered. It just means that they don't like playing aliens on pubs due to having to rely on teammates. That's why I like having my clan stack against him in pubs and rage him with our gorge power.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am also a pubber.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it incredible that you feel you have to state this. Anyone that plays the game in a non-competitive setting can be considered a pubber. Since people that play competitively also play in pubs, everyone that plays this game is a pubber. You people, not just you OrangeMitten, don't seem to realize that everyone just starting out in any game is going to be owned by players better than them. I remember when I first starting playing Counter-Strike, I thought half the people on the servers hacked. After a month or so, I was able to start beating them. Another two months and most of the people I played with starting to think I hacked. I felt like I was hacking right after I got my new computer and actually got over 30 FPS. Starting off in a new game is hard. Sticking with it shows you have the balls to learn from your mistakes and improve at something.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think NS needs to be more about strategy more then "FPS Doug" skill. I watched a guy get 198 kills and 2 deaths as a fade in a game that lasted 30mins in a co map. The marines could hold the rest of his team, but to be that strong is obsured. These players known as CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone, have exploited the game and ruined it for those who enjoyed the strategic point of the game.
One person, should not make a team win himself. I've witnessed players who play alien 99% of the time and 2 minute fade, get high kills and hope that thier team leads them to victory. We used to ask before going higher lifeforms because noone was godly enough to get 198 kills and 2 deaths before. People don't care anymore and do whatever they want nearly. I've seen the same on rines with marines getting 21 kills and 3 deaths, going straight to a hive and killing all the aliens on the way and putting up a pg in there cause he's that 1337 noone can kill him as long as comm gives him ammo and medpacks. Same as a basic skulk with no upgrades taking down a group of 2-3 marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>One player by themselves cannot win the game.</b> Everyone needs their teammates to win. The RTS portion of Natural Selection demands this. One player can indeed affect the game, but they cannot win it solo. On marines a player needs the commander to drop them meds, ammo, structures, weapons, and get them upgrades. They also need their teammates to build the nodes if they're off doing whatever. On aliens, a player can go 2 minute fade and die right away because they don't have chambers. Also, there's no way that they got 2 minute fade without their teammates dropping nodes. This would be evidence of a little something called teamwork. Teamwork doesn't just happen when you're fighting the other team; it happens throughout the game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS should not be like CS and be a game of total reflexes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a FPS/RTS, NS should not be totally reliant on reflexes. And it isn't. Reflexes only get you so far. The game is so complex that reflexes probably won't do you much good without strategy and tactics. Positioning yourself in the right part of the room and blocking the fade when he's leaving is far more effective and has a much greater impact than just being able to shoot. Knowing where you're going to be needed and getting there before it's too late is more important than killing 5 skulks in a row. The problem is that most people don't notice the positioning and timing. They just see someone kill a fade in 4 shots with a shotgun, and then a lerk and 2 skulks without reloading and think, "OMG that guy is good."
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps what this man was saying, was allow for a more gradual and leaniant system to where relexes are good, but strategy is better. Perhaps a compensation to someone who has a nearly steady stream of lmg bullets on a skulk that miss every once in a while while he moves, vs someone who always hits no matter what. Maybe not something that far but perhaps. Something has to equate out a balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, this is an FPS/RTS. Skill matters in an FPS. If you want something thats all strategy, go play Starcraft. Then again, skill matters there too. Scouting, adapting, and micro and macromanagement are all skills players learn. <b>In an online game, skill is always going to matter.</b> Wanting it to be different is like wanting pigs to grow wings and fly, or wanting the whole world to embrace one religion. Simply put, it's never going to happen.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->me playing a fade and going against multiple marines, i blink in, scratch them, and keep doing it just like mr H4Xx0rZ. there shouldn't be a reason that he auto locks on to people nearly and takes them out over and over and gets the 198kills and 2 deaths vs me who uses the same tactic just not as fluidly scripted or not as quick to reflexes as the other guy but I only kill a few marines. There just shouldn't be that big of a skill gap in any game. But in reality there is, and there is nothing we can realistically do about it other then change the game to compensate for it somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless you're aimbotting, then there are no "auto locks". It just means that they player can aim their swipes really well, predict the marine's movement and aim ahead of them, or any number of other things. I'd like to point out that scripting is not the advantage everyone makes it out to be. All scripts do is help you time your jumps better when you're bunnyhopping, or fire your pistol a little faster. Both of these things can be accomplished by binding your mousewheel to +jump or +attack. And for some reason binding your mousewheel is acceptable whereas scripting is not. They're exactly the same thing.
Its very easy to get a ratio like that. You just don't take risks. Don't stay in trying to kill a marine when there are 2 others in the room. Blink in and out taking swipes and don't hit the walls. Blink over them and stop above their head, turn around, blink down and swipe them. Its that easy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->scripting bhops and leaps and blinks for semi linear paths to dodge bullets effictively make the game pointless. same as someone emptying thier pistol clip in someone in under a half of a second. It isn't fun when someone completely destroys you, in any game, and there shouldn't be so large of a skill gap in a strategic game that one player has 198 kills and 2 deaths, and i'm at 1 kill and 43 deaths. If somehow it was possible to make that ratio a 2-1 ratio for him, into a 1-2 ratio for me then i'd be happy even. NS used to be down to the wire if you won or not, in competition with the other team almost until the last breath of your team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no idea what you're talking about here. No, its not fun when someone completely destroys you. The community is so small that there really aren't any servers to run and hide from the leetsauce players in though. Play CS enough and you'll come across a CAL-I players who single-handedly destroys your entire team round after round. In NS, you just come across these players more because of the small number of servers. Once again, NS is not only a strategic game. Since it is an FPS game, skill is going to matter.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there are lots of things that could be done to improve the gameplay greatly as we most know though, just figuring them out and how to balance them is the key.
maybe have a constant flow of damage for players who can't aim like i described above, or some type of auto lock on indicator, where it wouldn't full lock on but would help guide you say when someone gets behind you and u get turned around liek the bhopping skulk.
have balance for every server size and something that changes the values of the game based on how many people are in it to add balance.
slower speed such as fades and skulks but lower damage on rine guns balanced to compensate for it. possibly longer regen time for fades each time they regen damage
these ar just things i came up with off the top of my head but if i thought about it, I could come up with more game balancing things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of this is going to work. And, quite frankly, I'm tired of debunking the same ideas over and over. If you want to be taken seriously, at least post some pros and cons of your idea and how you think they'll impact the game. Typing in complete sentences complete with capitalization and punctuation would also help immensly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already know this is going to get torn apart by you CSers and quoted and flamed, forewarning, SUYF. reply to the post in its entireity and take it for its worth and intent rather then trying to flame certain aspects about it, which is the number 1 thing done incorrectly in forrums.
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There, I replied to your entire post. I hope you like it. I don't know where you get the idea that we're all "CS players, competetive players, scripters, bhoppers, aimbotters, or 1337 h4xorz111!!!oneone." And it disgusts me that you lump competitive players in with CS players and aimbotters. I don't know which comparision I hate more.
EDIT: I forgot to reply to our most dearing friend, Smood.
<!--quoteo(post=1618327:date=Apr 2 2007, 03:49 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]1618327[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
*swats a fly*
If you're a pubber, the best change you'll ever make in your ENTIRE NS career is binding +movement to mouse 2. It's mostly used for fade, but you'll fade like a god.
If you are a skulk, I'd try to get into areas with lots of twisting corners and get the marine there. If you are in a fight, I'd say it's better not to jump. So easy 2 tips:
- fight in tight areas
- don't jump in fights
Then go fade, add +movement and dominate.
As for marines, aiming is all you'll ever do.
This might be 1% of NS, while the other 99% is how fast you can move your hand and click. You know what, go practice reflex exercises. Drop a ruler and see how long it takes for you to catch it. Or when you play NS, go drink Bawls.
I wish I could help those who do feel downbeat from this game, but that's something that has to be fixed internally.
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You flip-flop more than a fish on dry land. First you say the game needs to be dumbed down so it's easier for everyone to aim. Then you say to go practice reflexes and learn to aim. You're just so frustrating that words cannot describe it. Therefore, I shall use a smilie. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I don't see how making mouse2 default bound to +movement will change anything. People bind keys to what they're comfortable with. For instance, I know of very few people that, like me, use ESDF for movement. And then I have my pistol script bound to V. My keys are so weirdly set up that my hand aches when I play in matches since I use LALT as my Ventrilo talk key, my thumb is bent below my hand 75% of the time. The best change anyone will make is to get away from default key binds and set them up so they're comfortable to you. Telling anyone that binding a specific action to a specific key is ridiculous.
As for your skulking tips, try this:
-Fight in tight areas
-Jump in fights sometimes, but never against a shotgunner
Tight areas give the advantage to skulks. Fades, lerks, and onos less so. The worst place to fight as a skulk against a marine is a wide open room. Jumping in fights works for me all the time. Yes, sometimes it gets me killed. But most often I take a marine or two with me. The biggest skulk tip I can give is to never hold down your bite key when you're attacking marines. Aim your bites and keep moving. Trying to play when your screen is eclipsed by teeth 40% of the time is a bad idea.
I like how you claim you know how to play, then give bad advice, then try to play it off like someone else said it. Try finding one side of any arguement and sticking to it instead of this back and forth thing you do.
While I think this is an issue, not directly a problem, I don't think a rapid standardization of skill levels will create the proper answer; I, for one, enjoying getting my ###### whooped by someone like Golden (hmmm that came out wrong). But there are people who don't enjoy this challange, and enjoy only to have "fair" and "even" games. These players tend to conglomerate with one another on their own servers, and thus they find these "fair" and "even" games, kicking and banning those who throw off the balance.
As I've mentioned before, I think the problem here is that as time has gone on, the number of good NS servers has declined. People like Golden become e-homeless and are left to wander the streets of the interweb looking for a place to get a fix, I mean game. Thus, these "competetive" players are left to play every now and then on these "fair" servers where they tend to dominate.
Smood seems to like the idea of forcing standardization upon players, but I've already mentioned my concern with this. In fact, I feel the Smood might actually be sort of right; clans and such come from a sort of standardization amongst players in servers; people of equal skill form dirty highway bands and ragtag upon each other. But frankly, with the loss of CAL and the NSA Veteran Server, for example, these bands become harder to form as standardization becomes harder to enforce due to hte lack of servers, which in turn reduces the sample size. It is thus my opinion that if more servers were introduced that cater to these NS gods that these players will not "bother" those who so actively seek "even" and "fair" games.
just described a most of the personalities in competitive ns (think of people like makaveli, chuckerz)
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I realize I've been a ###### to pubbers a while ago. I've been trying to have a better attitude, but sometimes I just get too damn frusterated. Sorry.