Its pretty simple how to have good games. Try to balance out the skill.
If you're good, dont just join a team randomly. Look at who's joining it. If you recognize more names on one side than on the other, join the other. Or ask people to do the same for next round.
Because its impossible to instill an official, systematic process to balance out teams. They aren't feasible in PC FPS', or they are far too much work, or far too buggy, or all of the above.
Its like saying 'well hell, people would die a lot less if we got rid of every feasible weapon'. Well, yeah, but how would you make it happen? I could kill someone with a lamp. I.e., its impossible.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I think NS would be more fun if there were powershifts yes, but also if MT and SoF were harder to get. The stealth part of NS is one of the most fun parts but it only lasts a few minutes, or like 30 seconds or less in most Combat games. Hell I'd like to have MT and SoF disabled in combat completely. I know I have said that a number of times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for all the posts and replies, even the negative ones. It shows how many people take in material, and either use it constructively(Positive or negative, both are good and necessary), and how many show apathy, or don't want their "comfort zone" infiltrated. This post stuck out to me.
I think that if SoF and MT WERE harder to get(As in, time-consuming things need to be done before each can be done), then I think the game would be a lot more fun, even in the current state I see it as. I love the paranoia as a Marine, not knowing when something is going to jump out at me, having to stay on my toes all the time, even with backup. And I love setting up an ambush as a skulk to take out one or two marines(Or attempt to and be shot). After all, that's what skulks are for.
MT and SoF turn NS into Counter-Strike early on. Although, once both sides are teched up(Think around 2 hives for Aliens, and Weapons/Armor 2, shotties and a proto being put down for marines), then I think MT and SoF are necessary, because once big guns and teeth are in play, some CS-type tactics(I guess that's the word-play?) should be used based on the tools available. That's when MT is needed to see that fade blip(Or a skulk who you thought was the fade), and when SoF is needed to help try and set up an ambush, or see the group of marines moving so you can relay info back to the other aliens.
If the stealth/paranoia aspects of NS lasted longer, then I too feel that NS could feel a lot better to play, even in its current state, as both sides. But that would require MT to take longer, and SoF to take longer too(Usually people do MC first 95% of the time if I'm not mistaken anyway, so that's not so much of a problem.)
At least when I played in 2.0, I do remember times when SC and DC were both prime choices for first chamber. The SC first games always wound up very fun thanks to the stealth/paranoia aspects, and I loved it for that.
If MT took longer to get, I can see the whole stealth/ambush/paranoia aspect take a big leap forward(no pun intended). After all, wasn't that one of the big aspects of the game in the first place?
And although that's only one suggestion(Which usually cannot fix entire pictures), I think that it could make the early game a lot more fun, and lead to an interesting meta-game.
I'd offer suggestion for that, but this is not a suggestions thread/suggestions forum, nor do I want to invite people to derail my entire conversation based on one opinion made.
The new hive teleport system is AWESOME for enabling comebacks. Ninja gorge runs in, drops the hive, spits it and insta onos and fade rush on the hive. Almost always works. Even if rines have MT the comm can't keep a constant eye on a locked hive and its not hard to get one up. If he has sentry turrets its even better as they will start shooting the hive right away, enabling transport.
SC does prevent some ninja action for marines but that's only if aliens chose to get it, and that's going to be at the expense of either weaker fades and oni or a slower team altogether.
<!--quoteo(post=1617451:date=Mar 28 2007, 10:45 AM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Mar 28 2007, 10:45 AM) [snapback]1617451[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I read as far as
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->One tiny false more, or one nice move, and it's over. Completely over, no chance for a comeback.<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
and decided I wouldn't waste my time reading the rest of it. NS is fun now, if you want 2-3hr long games full of spam, go play wow battlegrounds imo. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By your logic I should tell you to play CS if you like short games.
I agree with the OP on some points. There aren't as many comebacks as there used to be. But thats not because the game changed... its the playerbase that changed. They now are all familiar with the same maps, they know which spots to hold and which not, etc. Comebacks were possible when there were a ton of people making mistakes, which is not the case anymore.
ALL RTS games fall into this "Design Trap". The ending is almost never a surprise, because someone always has the upper hand. The best course of action against this is releasing new, high-quality maps every month. That way people won't get used to the same maps over and over again, thus learning every single trick of them in no time.
SkulkBait's Top Five Reasons NS isn't Fun for You Anymore:
5. The Game is fine. Shut up. 4. Well, at least its fine if you only play 8v8 or less. 3. Well, you have to play competitively. Then its fine. 2. The game is just too old. Like CS. Nobody plays that anymore. 1. You just need to play better.
3. tearing through pub teams single handedly. it gives you some kind of ego boost i guess 2. the team ventrilo during scrims or matches. all e-emotions are present here: hysterical laughter and uncontrollable rage. its funny really 1. they still have time to play this game sometimes, because of clever scheduling (or just too much free time)
<!--quoteo(post=1620396:date=Apr 12 2007, 02:07 AM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Apr 12 2007, 02:07 AM) [snapback]1620396[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> SkulkBait's Top Five Reasons NS isn't Fun for You Anymore:
5. The Game is fine. Shut up. 4. Well, at least its fine if you only play 8v8 or less. 3. Well, you have to play competitively. Then its fine. 2. The game is just too old. Like CS. Nobody plays that anymore. 1. You just need to play better. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like them.
But No1 should be: Because lots of servers do have an absurd number of plugins it is hard to judge for the player, what the unmodified NS looks like. This also means that a player who has been playing with the "elec-welder" plugin all the time will be pretty irritated when he joins a server that does not use this plugin. It also leads to fals execution of certain tactics.
Lets take the first-blood multi-kill reward plugin for co. THis plugin gives a a HUGE xp boost for the first map kill and boost for double,multi,triple kills etc. This means on many servers that the person who makes the first frag is level 5. He can then simply go cele+redem fade against lvl1 marines and start racking up a huge amount of kills, which will also give him even more boosts from multi kills. If such a server has also the xtra level plugin installed it ends usually with a lvl 30 fade after 6-8 minutes of play which is certainly not fun.
All those plugins usually server one porpuse: Server admins want to make their server stand out. And having lots of plugins installed is easier achieved than having a good community with firendly and active regulars. The problem is that plugin loaded server normally dont attract the good NS players long enough to make them stay simply because plugin loaded servers are no challange for good players. Add in the fact that admins usually ban people who join their plugin loaded servers and then rack up 100 kills in 5 minutes and you know why lots of players are bad at NS. They have been playing the wrong game all the time.
Anyway: Fun fact about french and plugin servers that were created before 2006. I am banned from "EVERY" server that has a combination of xtralevels and multi-kill xp award plugins installed as well as pings lower than 100ms. Not for using cheats, not for beeing racist/sexiest not for abusing bugs not for acting against the server rules. Simply for playing the game to its fullest. (Some people just cant stand getting attacked by a lvl 12 fade when they are only lvl2-3) I am also banned from more than 60% off all french servers and I dont know honestly why. --------------- And smood: Saying that clanners are ruining pub play (mainly by joing rines only and rage quitting) is indeed a behavior that I have often enough observed, but you can usually still make shure that the game remains fun by not medding and denying them ammo, even if it means, that you have to recycle the armory so they cant just walk into a hive and hold their own for 10 minutes. But remember this also applies to any good marine. Saying clanners are the problem is as wrong as saying pubbers are the problem. It is usually the extreme difference in skill level (and also the fact that even the best skulk cant defeat a marine 1 on 1 that hits every bullet). Although the average clanners skill level is much higher than the average pubbers they are both more or less interchangeable. I have seen lots and lots of clanners acting like idiots who dont understand the meaning of teamwork and I have also seen lots and lots of pubbers plaing together like they have been training for several years. It sill comes down to people and people should treat other people with respect. If you join a server to ruin other peoples fun than you are simply acting like a ishhead.
<!--quoteo(post=1622412:date=Apr 22 2007, 08:58 AM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Apr 22 2007, 08:58 AM) [snapback]1622412[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I have seen lots and lots of clanners acting like idiots who dont understand the meaning of teamwork and I have also seen lots and lots of pubbers plaing together like they have been training for several years. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most clanners are bored to death because teamwork doesn't work in public games. I often end up raging if I try to work too much for the team. If you build rt, nobodys covering properly. If you don't build it, the other guy doesn't go building until he has wasted a minute of valuable early game time. Aliens rarely realize to attack while you distract the marines. Nobody realizes the map situation and just wanders around without a clue of the overall gameplay if they move at all.
A few weeks of pub play like that and even I've had enough.
Sure publics have teamwork too, but it doesn't occur that often. Proper voice communication system would help a lot.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ALL RTS games fall into this "Design Trap". The ending is almost never a surprise, because someone always has the upper hand. The best course of action against this is releasing new, high-quality maps every month. That way people won't get used to the same maps over and over again, thus learning every single trick of them in no time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been playing warcraft 3 lately and it really has a plenty of surprising stuff. NS would have more of comebacks if there were more equally skilled players playing with variable styles and tactics. A bigger playerbase and a more active competetive scene would help a lot for the variability and comebacks.
It takes months to create even a semi-working ns map. And still it wouldn't probably be good until a few version of public fine tuning. Tanith and Origin are probably the only maps that have been good since the first releases.
Most of the people have no idea about how to play the maps. Knowing the few choke points is far away from learning every single trick of the map. More tactical variability would do good, but meanwhile there's still a plenty of things to find out for most of the players.
I wanna applaud OP. He has a legitimate and great reason for deciding to quit playing this game. It's not fun for him any more and he accepts that.
NS is still fun for me. A lot of fun. Especially in the current release 2 hive lockdowns seem much more difficult to maintain and the second hive seems much less decisive then it once was, either as a guaranteer that aliens will win or a guaranteer that aliens will lose, and the downscaling of this issue which used to be my major frustration with this game injected alot of life into the game for me. To me, nothing plays the way NS plays. Nothing matches the fun of slamming into a marine at 600 units per second from full bhop and chomping his face off. Nothing emulates the experience of having freakish lifeforms whizzing around you at ridiculous speeds and still trying to track them and fill their corpses with hot lead. In this game ish comes off the ceiling at you... also you can come off the ceiling and land on ish.
To me NS is still one of the most fun games I've ever played. So OP: I totally respect your sentiment, I've experienced the same phenomena in other games alot, and ultimately what it came down to is they just didn't suit my personal preference. But while it would be great if every game could change to suit me, that's neither realistic, nor fair to the other players. Therefore, OP, I'm going to ask you to realize that this game still is alot of fun, and while there is always going to be things in a game that can be improved, please don't take this game away from me and make it something other then it is. Something slower, something dumber, something more frustrating and less decisive. Those games exist elsewhere, and they aren't the games I look for when I boot up good old Natural Selection.
PrefixÉirinn go BráchJoin Date: 2006-12-31Member: 59353Members, Constellation
edited April 2007
Seriously SmoodCroozn your ###### me off, and im sure their are plenty of others who agree, inculding other public players who clerly deserve more respect than you. Do you ever wonder why people think your such a ######? it because ever post you make is about your hatred of competative players. The comp scene is here, and i dont care what you say about match servers being empty! We arent constantly playing you idiot, join the irc channel ensl at quakenet, and you tell me how little amount of players their are? and thats just the euro scene. We also sit in many different vents together. So Stop The Pointless, seriously unfound bullish flames.
Bout time someone told you why your a ###### rather than just calling you one.
- Prefix
PS: Oh btw im not intrested in your reply to this post.
<!--quoteo(post=1622426:date=Apr 22 2007, 01:31 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Apr 22 2007, 01:31 PM) [snapback]1622426[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It takes months to create even a semi-working ns map. And still it wouldn't probably be good until a few version of public fine tuning. Tanith and Origin are probably the only maps that have been good since the first releases. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is Tanith always quoted as beeing the one super duper NS map?
There are just not enough options on tanith and it usually comes down to "whoever holds cargo wins". There is also no real atmosphere an tanith. It aint a bad map, but it is certainly not a map i could play over and over again.
Nancy, on the other hand: Thats a great map. Several valid reloc options interesting vent system allows for safe alien travel and possible ambush oppurtunities. Mostly tight corridors with a few bigger rooms and lots of dark corners and even more obstacles (lockers) makes for an interesting CQC experience. And nancy has the 2nd best RR-secret (only topped by bast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />)
<!--quoteo(post=1620347:date=Apr 11 2007, 04:27 PM:name=Detheron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Detheron @ Apr 11 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]1620347[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By your logic I should tell you to play CS if you like short games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played CS before I came to NS, and I've pretty much quit playing NS now due to the fact that the competetive scene is a very bad joke, and I've started playing CS again.
NS is fine, the current model forces fairly short (8-15mins) decisive rounds in most cases. NS isn't an MMO. You aren't supposed to be playing the same round for hours on end.
<!--quoteo(post=1622439:date=Apr 22 2007, 01:37 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Apr 22 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]1622439[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why is Tanith always quoted as beeing the one super duper NS map?
There are just not enough options on tanith and it usually comes down to "whoever holds cargo wins". There is also no real atmosphere an tanith. It aint a bad map, but it is certainly not a map i could play over and over again.
Nancy, on the other hand: Thats a great map. Several valid reloc options interesting vent system allows for safe alien travel and possible ambush oppurtunities. Mostly tight corridors with a few bigger rooms and lots of dark corners and even more obstacles (lockers) makes for an interesting CQC experience. And nancy has the 2nd best RR-secret (only topped by bast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tanith has been good for competetive and pubbing since the very first public release. It has quite unique architecture and layout and still its also balanced for most versions. Cargo is far from crucial. One of the most interesting things is how Tanith managed to stay almost the same through the changes in 2.0 while it has been one of the top competetive maps before and after the 2.0.
Nancy is sure fun but it really is only a public map. The siegespots and overall map balance don't work in competetive. Apart from the atmosphere there isn't much great in Nancy and I've never been able to enjoy the atmosphere since it would take tons of skilled players to create an immersion of well trained marines and bloodthirsty kharaa battling for survival. Thats what the singleplayer and co-op multiplayer are for. So I guess Tanith suits everybody somehow while Nancy is for the atmosphere gamers.
<!--quoteo(post=1622439:date=Apr 22 2007, 09:37 AM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Apr 22 2007, 09:37 AM) [snapback]1622439[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why is Tanith always quoted as beeing the one super duper NS map?
There are just not enough options on tanith and it usually comes down to "whoever holds cargo wins". There is also no real atmosphere an tanith. It aint a bad map, but it is certainly not a map i could play over and over again.
Nancy, on the other hand: Thats a great map. Several valid reloc options interesting vent system allows for safe alien travel and possible ambush oppurtunities. Mostly tight corridors with a few bigger rooms and lots of dark corners and even more obstacles (lockers) makes for an interesting CQC experience. And nancy has the 2nd best RR-secret (only topped by bast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Relocating just isn't an option with NS's current build for one simple reason: you can't change your beacon position. You'll lose every time, no matter what keyhole you set up in simply because of the burden of covering the extra position without the option of beacon. Maybe you should suggest the ability to beacon into different rooms? Maybe you have to have an IP built in a room to beacon to it or something? Seems like a bit of a nightmare in terms of potential exploits, but it would open up more strategy.
Edit: this as far as competitive goes, a pub stack can still pull it off
hi ive been here since day one, the only just solution to your problem is quitting, its what I did when things turned a way I didnt like, actions speak louder than words, and a loss of players should speak volumes. Ironically thats not always the case with NS.
Prefix, whining won't make me stop posting. Begging however, might... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I have a friend that plays NS. He prefers combat 99% of the time. Of course my friend plays with a cheap mouse, which jerks a lot when he aims.
I showed him how to com in NS and although he still retains the aim/movement part of the game, he doesn't know what structures do what - something combat fails to teach.
I guess those alien/marine bot servers can be useful to teach, but he's far from "getting it".
When I LAN with him, I have to shout orders, such as get some RTs up or protect the hive. He does not seem to know what's going on. I even try to help him out such as binding +movement to mouse 2 or making hud_fastswitch 1.
I guess all this comes from playing NS for a few years.
NS mode is a lot for some people to take and most of the time, they don't bother to climb the mountain. Skill difference is a big factor in close games, but that's not the player's fault.
<!--quoteo(post=1622504:date=Apr 22 2007, 07:15 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 22 2007, 07:15 PM) [snapback]1622504[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> NS mode is a lot for some people to take and most of the time, they don't bother to climb the mountain. Skill difference is a big factor in close games, but that's not the player's fault. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SmoodCroozn, why do you barely ever respond to the 100 players that respond to your posts? It seems like every time someone disagrees with you and shows it, you just ignore them. Why not listen to what the smarter and better players are telling you? It seems like your posts are very logically made; however, it's like a scientist coming to a conclusion without enough information: you can make the educated guess, but it's not right unless you provide the evidence.
You may have been playing this game for years now, but as far as I'm concerned, that wouldn't make you a better player than one that started a week ago. I don't say this to bash you, I say this to all players like you. Playing for a long time doesn't give you credibility. Playing the game well and knowing right from wrong, does. I remember once you said that Acid Rockets were the counter to jetpacks. 5/6 people responded calling you an idiot, and you acted like they never said anything.
What I'm trying to get at here is that theres 50 people willing to teach you the basic game mechanics. Why haven't you taken the opportunity to learn? Instead of posting over and over on how there's something wrong with the game, why not take it as it is? There's a reason why you're always complaining about stacked teams and overly powerful marines. NS is about teamwork, which is something near-impossible to manage on those 32 player servers. A 6v6-8v8 is simply more fun because you interact with the other players on a much more personal level; it's not simply just one blob of players moving towards another blob. That's not teamwork.
Don't ignore my post. Read radix007's post, at least give it a try. Get a bit better at the game, play on TG, scrim a few times, and I guarantee you will have a much brighter outlook on NS and what the devs were aiming for when they made it. Like I said, you have the potential to be a great player: It's just being held back due to stubbornness.
Veritas: NS isn't about teamwork. It's about the best player on the team carrying everyone else, and shouting at people who have no idea what they are doing. You must not play much pubs. The pinicle of teamwork seems to be that pubbers are learning how to bait.
Put NS into a competitive environment and all of a sudden it IS about teamwork, because the skill differences are much less pronounced, so one fade can't just run in and eat 3 marines no matter who he is, he needs his team to help him, similarly one marine can't bait, and can't cover his own back, which are things you rarely need to worry about in pubs.
Increasing the ammount of players doesn't do anything to the way teamwork works in NS. In pubs it doesn't matter if there are 6 players or 12 players. You always either one of the players who wander around aimlessly, or one of the players who shouts at someone who is wandering around aimlessly to get their ###### in gear and do something. All 6 more players is is more people to shout at.
<!--quoteo(post=1622529:date=Apr 22 2007, 10:49 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Apr 22 2007, 10:49 PM) [snapback]1622529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Veritas: NS isn't about teamwork. It's about the best player on the team carrying everyone else, and shouting at people who have no idea what they are doing. You must not play much pubs. The pinicle of teamwork seems to be that pubbers are learning how to bait.
Put NS into a competitive environment and all of a sudden it IS about teamwork, because the skill differences are much less pronounced, so one fade can't just run in and eat 3 marines no matter who he is, he needs his team to help him, similarly one marine can't bait, and can't cover his own back, which are things you rarely need to worry about in pubs.
Increasing the ammount of players doesn't do anything to the way teamwork works in NS. In pubs it doesn't matter if there are 6 players or 12 players. You always either one of the players who wander around aimlessly, or one of the players who shouts at someone who is wandering around aimlessly to get their ###### in gear and do something. All 6 more players is is more people to shout at. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I somewhat agree with you. What I was trying to say is that you'll find much more rewarding experience from competitive play, rather than those 32 player servers where there's no coordination involved. Play on TG if want teamwork, that's the one pub where it actually somewhat goes on.
<!--quoteo(post=1622529:date=Apr 22 2007, 11:49 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Apr 22 2007, 11:49 PM) [snapback]1622529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Veritas: NS isn't about teamwork. It's about the best player on the team carrying everyone else, and shouting at people who have no idea what they are doing. You must not play much pubs. The pinicle of teamwork seems to be that pubbers are learning how to bait.
Put NS into a competitive environment and all of a sudden it IS about teamwork, because the skill differences are much less pronounced, so one fade can't just run in and eat 3 marines no matter who he is, he needs his team to help him, similarly one marine can't bait, and can't cover his own back, which are things you rarely need to worry about in pubs.
Increasing the ammount of players doesn't do anything to the way teamwork works in NS. In pubs it doesn't matter if there are 6 players or 12 players. You always either one of the players who wander around aimlessly, or one of the players who shouts at someone who is wandering around aimlessly to get their ###### in gear and do something. All 6 more players is is more people to shout at. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you averaged all servers I guess you'd find that to be true, but as Veritas mentioned, TG is a wonderful server with teamwork and all the likes.
I have a theory that as the number of players increases, teamwork also increases: more players = less square footage/player on a map, therefore players will be closer together assuming random distribution :-P
I like TG. It can be a bit stiff with the no swearing rules, but I play the server a fair bit when it's not busy kicking me for not having a res slot.
[edit] To me the biggest difference is that for some reason TG seems to have a higher percentage of players who aren't clueless as to what they are doing in game...
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1622539:date=Apr 23 2007, 01:24 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Apr 23 2007, 01:24 AM) [snapback]1622539[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I like TG. It can be a bit stiff with the no swearing rules, but I play the server a fair bit when it's not busy kicking me for not having a res slot.
[edit] To me the biggest difference is that for some reason TG seems to have a higher percentage of players who aren't clueless as to what they are doing in game... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know, that's interesting. Not so much anymore, because we've spoken out against it so much, but there was a time when it was a common (not universal or automatic or anything) misconception that TG was a "skill" pub... that you had to have some level of "cooooolness" to play on it. In fact, quite the opposite is true. I should know.
But the "they get the game" thing was a side effect of us summarily and guiltlessly removing players who created grief for adult-minded players who just wanted a "good game" with teamwork and a semblance of intelligence and respect among their teammates (and, just as importantly, their opponents). The skill merely migrated to TG, tired of having to work SO HARD elsewhere to find a "fit" for their abilities as individuals. How frustrating is it to be "awesome" only to have a team that doesn't know which way is up?
So, TG suffers from the same problem other pubs do: some players rock, and some players strive to manage a 1:1.25 KD ratio consistently, but (during prime time, to be sure) EVERYONE works together as a TEAM, and so the dynamic is the best compromise between "pub allstars" and "pro" that anyone's managed yet to find in North America.
About the slots, we've just this week launched a new system that makes it again possible for non-Supporting Members to join the full server (and be looked to LAST by the server for being bumped by incoming Supporting Members). See our NS forums for details.
Veritas, the reason you can't seem to understand what I'm telling you is because of your lack of thinking and narrowmindedness.
If I asked for help and if I did get to Makalevi's level, would I solve the problem of one player mopping the floor of a server? You don't see what's happening at the pub level and only revert to using pathetic insults at me. How can I argue with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
So instead of looking at me, which you seem to do quite frequently, go boot up NS, go play a few pub servers and see what happens. See how one player mops the floor quite frequently and see others rage quit. Stop this 6v6 fantasy crap that seems to blind you from how NS is played.
<!--quoteo(post=1622687:date=Apr 23 2007, 07:51 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 23 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]1622687[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Veritas, the reason you can't seem to understand what I'm telling you is because of your lack of thinking and narrowmindedness.
If I asked for help and if I did get to Makalevi's level, would I solve the problem of one player mopping the floor of a server? You don't see what's happening at the pub level and only revert to using pathetic insults at me. How can I argue with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
So instead of looking at me, which you seem to do quite frequently, go boot up NS, go play a few pub servers and see what happens. See how one player mops the floor quite frequently and see others rage quit. Stop this 6v6 fantasy crap that seems to blind you from how NS is played. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TO PUT IT PLAIN AND SIMPLY: WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS YOU HATE GETTING KILLED BY BETTER PLAYERS.
Why don't you stop this 'fantasy crap' in your head that NS is an RPG and your skill should be dictated by how much agility your ###### armor gives you. I'm not bashing you when I ###### say that you should give lessons a try, do it. There's no point in arguing anymore. You're wrong, you're a ###### idiot, everyone thinks so, the few people that agree with you are either terribly bad, or just feel sorry for you.
LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOU AT NS. THEY'RE BETTER FOR A REASON.
<!--quoteo(post=1622701:date=Apr 23 2007, 07:56 PM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrueVeritas @ Apr 23 2007, 07:56 PM) [snapback]1622701[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> TO PUT IT PLAIN AND SIMPLY: WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS YOU HATE GETTING KILLED BY BETTER PLAYERS.
Why don't you stop this 'fantasy crap' in your head that NS is an RPG and your skill should be dictated by how much agility your ###### armor gives you. I'm not bashing you when I ###### say that you should give lessons a try, do it. There's no point in arguing anymore. You're wrong, you're a ###### idiot, everyone thinks so, the few people that agree with you are either terribly bad, or just feel sorry for you.
LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOU AT NS. THEY'RE BETTER FOR A REASON. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My my, let's not pout our spout shall we?
Think of me as a lawyer. I do not have to have the qualities of the client that I'm representing.
NS as an RPG? Hmm... you might want to check out Phantasy Star Online. That is with the theme of future, guns, aliens of course. But I loathe RPGs, their dragged out battle systems and their tedious grinding quests, as well as their money-sucking fees.
All I'm saying is that I know people that do not commit to NS mode because it's far too demanding for them. You have to memorize key areas in maps, you have to know how to stop a gorge biling your base, you have to stop ninja phases, it takes long times to get to bigger forms, etc. It's a hardcore mode. Skill difference further magnifies the difficulties a new player faces.
Combat is instant gratification. No painful suffering as a skulk to get 75 res to onos again.
Yes, people do have different skill levels and there's nothing wrong with this, but like you said, you prefer competitive because matches tend to be equal, because the skills of the players tend to be a lot similar. But when you throw in Michael Jordan in a high school basketball game, the game totally changes. One team is owned. The other team feels useless, because MJ is doing all the work. I'm not suggesting a solution, but that's how NS is.
Comments
If you're good, dont just join a team randomly. Look at who's joining it. If you recognize more names on one side than on the other, join the other. Or ask people to do the same for next round.
Its like saying 'well hell, people would die a lot less if we got rid of every feasible weapon'. Well, yeah, but how would you make it happen? I could kill someone with a lamp. I.e., its impossible.
Thanks for all the posts and replies, even the negative ones. It shows how many people take in material, and either use it constructively(Positive or negative, both are good and necessary), and how many show apathy, or don't want their "comfort zone" infiltrated. This post stuck out to me.
I think that if SoF and MT WERE harder to get(As in, time-consuming things need to be done before each can be done), then I think the game would be a lot more fun, even in the current state I see it as. I love the paranoia as a Marine, not knowing when something is going to jump out at me, having to stay on my toes all the time, even with backup. And I love setting up an ambush as a skulk to take out one or two marines(Or attempt to and be shot). After all, that's what skulks are for.
MT and SoF turn NS into Counter-Strike early on. Although, once both sides are teched up(Think around 2 hives for Aliens, and Weapons/Armor 2, shotties and a proto being put down for marines), then I think MT and SoF are necessary, because once big guns and teeth are in play, some CS-type tactics(I guess that's the word-play?) should be used based on the tools available. That's when MT is needed to see that fade blip(Or a skulk who you thought was the fade), and when SoF is needed to help try and set up an ambush, or see the group of marines moving so you can relay info back to the other aliens.
If the stealth/paranoia aspects of NS lasted longer, then I too feel that NS could feel a lot better to play, even in its current state, as both sides. But that would require MT to take longer, and SoF to take longer too(Usually people do MC first 95% of the time if I'm not mistaken anyway, so that's not so much of a problem.)
At least when I played in 2.0, I do remember times when SC and DC were both prime choices for first chamber. The SC first games always wound up very fun thanks to the stealth/paranoia aspects, and I loved it for that.
If MT took longer to get, I can see the whole stealth/ambush/paranoia aspect take a big leap forward(no pun intended). After all, wasn't that one of the big aspects of the game in the first place?
And although that's only one suggestion(Which usually cannot fix entire pictures), I think that it could make the early game a lot more fun, and lead to an interesting meta-game.
I'd offer suggestion for that, but this is not a suggestions thread/suggestions forum, nor do I want to invite people to derail my entire conversation based on one opinion made.
SC does prevent some ninja action for marines but that's only if aliens chose to get it, and that's going to be at the expense of either weaker fades and oni or a slower team altogether.
I read as far as
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and decided I wouldn't waste my time reading the rest of it. NS is fun now, if you want 2-3hr long games full of spam, go play wow battlegrounds imo.
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By your logic I should tell you to play CS if you like short games.
I agree with the OP on some points. There aren't as many comebacks as there used to be. But thats not because the game changed... its the playerbase that changed. They now are all familiar with the same maps, they know which spots to hold and which not, etc. Comebacks were possible when there were a ton of people making mistakes, which is not the case anymore.
ALL RTS games fall into this "Design Trap". The ending is almost never a surprise, because someone always has the upper hand. The best course of action against this is releasing new, high-quality maps every month. That way people won't get used to the same maps over and over again, thus learning every single trick of them in no time.
5. The Game is fine. Shut up.
4. Well, at least its fine if you only play 8v8 or less.
3. Well, you have to play competitively. Then its fine.
2. The game is just too old. Like CS. Nobody plays that anymore.
1. You just need to play better.
3. tearing through pub teams single handedly. it gives you some kind of ego boost i guess
2. the team ventrilo during scrims or matches. all e-emotions are present here: hysterical laughter and uncontrollable rage. its funny really
1. they still have time to play this game sometimes, because of clever scheduling (or just too much free time)
SkulkBait's Top Five Reasons NS isn't Fun for You Anymore:
5. The Game is fine. Shut up.
4. Well, at least its fine if you only play 8v8 or less.
3. Well, you have to play competitively. Then its fine.
2. The game is just too old. Like CS. Nobody plays that anymore.
1. You just need to play better.
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I like them.
But No1 should be: Because lots of servers do have an absurd number of plugins it is hard to judge for the player, what the unmodified NS looks like. This also means that a player who has been playing with the "elec-welder" plugin all the time will be pretty irritated when he joins a server that does not use this plugin. It also leads to fals execution of certain tactics.
Lets take the first-blood multi-kill reward plugin for co. THis plugin gives a a HUGE xp boost for the first map kill and boost for double,multi,triple kills etc. This means on many servers that the person who makes the first frag is level 5. He can then simply go cele+redem fade against lvl1 marines and start racking up a huge amount of kills, which will also give him even more boosts from multi kills. If such a server has also the xtra level plugin installed it ends usually with a lvl 30 fade after 6-8 minutes of play which is certainly not fun.
All those plugins usually server one porpuse: Server admins want to make their server stand out. And having lots of plugins installed is easier achieved than having a good community with firendly and active regulars. The problem is that plugin loaded server normally dont attract the good NS players long enough to make them stay simply because plugin loaded servers are no challange for good players. Add in the fact that admins usually ban people who join their plugin loaded servers and then rack up 100 kills in 5 minutes and you know why lots of players are bad at NS. They have been playing the wrong game all the time.
Anyway: Fun fact about french and plugin servers that were created before 2006.
I am banned from "EVERY" server that has a combination of xtralevels and multi-kill xp award plugins installed as well as pings lower than 100ms. Not for using cheats, not for beeing racist/sexiest not for abusing bugs not for acting against the server rules. Simply for playing the game to its fullest. (Some people just cant stand getting attacked by a lvl 12 fade when they are only lvl2-3)
I am also banned from more than 60% off all french servers and I dont know honestly why.
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And smood: Saying that clanners are ruining pub play (mainly by joing rines only and rage quitting) is indeed a behavior that I have often enough observed, but you can usually still make shure that the game remains fun by not medding and denying them ammo, even if it means, that you have to recycle the armory so they cant just walk into a hive and hold their own for 10 minutes. But remember this also applies to any good marine. Saying clanners are the problem is as wrong as saying pubbers are the problem. It is usually the extreme difference in skill level (and also the fact that even the best skulk cant defeat a marine 1 on 1 that hits every bullet). Although the average clanners skill level is much higher than the average pubbers they are both more or less interchangeable. I have seen lots and lots of clanners acting like idiots who dont understand the meaning of teamwork and I have also seen lots and lots of pubbers plaing together like they have been training for several years.
It sill comes down to people and people should treat other people with respect. If you join a server to ruin other peoples fun than you are simply acting like a ishhead.
I have seen lots and lots of clanners acting like idiots who dont understand the meaning of teamwork and I have also seen lots and lots of pubbers plaing together like they have been training for several years.
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Most clanners are bored to death because teamwork doesn't work in public games. I often end up raging if I try to work too much for the team. If you build rt, nobodys covering properly. If you don't build it, the other guy doesn't go building until he has wasted a minute of valuable early game time. Aliens rarely realize to attack while you distract the marines. Nobody realizes the map situation and just wanders around without a clue of the overall gameplay if they move at all.
A few weeks of pub play like that and even I've had enough.
Sure publics have teamwork too, but it doesn't occur that often. Proper voice communication system would help a lot.
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ALL RTS games fall into this "Design Trap". The ending is almost never a surprise, because someone always has the upper hand. The best course of action against this is releasing new, high-quality maps every month. That way people won't get used to the same maps over and over again, thus learning every single trick of them in no time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been playing warcraft 3 lately and it really has a plenty of surprising stuff. NS would have more of comebacks if there were more equally skilled players playing with variable styles and tactics. A bigger playerbase and a more active competetive scene would help a lot for the variability and comebacks.
It takes months to create even a semi-working ns map. And still it wouldn't probably be good until a few version of public fine tuning. Tanith and Origin are probably the only maps that have been good since the first releases.
Most of the people have no idea about how to play the maps. Knowing the few choke points is far away from learning every single trick of the map. More tactical variability would do good, but meanwhile there's still a plenty of things to find out for most of the players.
NS is still fun for me. A lot of fun. Especially in the current release 2 hive lockdowns seem much more difficult to maintain and the second hive seems much less decisive then it once was, either as a guaranteer that aliens will win or a guaranteer that aliens will lose, and the downscaling of this issue which used to be my major frustration with this game injected alot of life into the game for me. To me, nothing plays the way NS plays. Nothing matches the fun of slamming into a marine at 600 units per second from full bhop and chomping his face off. Nothing emulates the experience of having freakish lifeforms whizzing around you at ridiculous speeds and still trying to track them and fill their corpses with hot lead. In this game ish comes off the ceiling at you... also you can come off the ceiling and land on ish.
To me NS is still one of the most fun games I've ever played. So OP: I totally respect your sentiment, I've experienced the same phenomena in other games alot, and ultimately what it came down to is they just didn't suit my personal preference. But while it would be great if every game could change to suit me, that's neither realistic, nor fair to the other players. Therefore, OP, I'm going to ask you to realize that this game still is alot of fun, and while there is always going to be things in a game that can be improved, please don't take this game away from me and make it something other then it is. Something slower, something dumber, something more frustrating and less decisive. Those games exist elsewhere, and they aren't the games I look for when I boot up good old Natural Selection.
Bout time someone told you why your a ###### rather than just calling you one.
- Prefix
PS: Oh btw im not intrested in your reply to this post.
It takes months to create even a semi-working ns map. And still it wouldn't probably be good until a few version of public fine tuning. Tanith and Origin are probably the only maps that have been good since the first releases.
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Why is Tanith always quoted as beeing the one super duper NS map?
There are just not enough options on tanith and it usually comes down to "whoever holds cargo wins". There is also no real atmosphere an tanith. It aint a bad map, but it is certainly not a map i could play over and over again.
Nancy, on the other hand: Thats a great map. Several valid reloc options interesting vent system allows for safe alien travel and possible ambush oppurtunities. Mostly tight corridors with a few bigger rooms and lots of dark corners and even more obstacles (lockers) makes for an interesting CQC experience. And nancy has the 2nd best RR-secret (only topped by bast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />)
I played CS before I came to NS, and I've pretty much quit playing NS now due to the fact that the competetive scene is a very bad joke, and I've started playing CS again.
NS is fine, the current model forces fairly short (8-15mins) decisive rounds in most cases. NS isn't an MMO. You aren't supposed to be playing the same round for hours on end.
Why is Tanith always quoted as beeing the one super duper NS map?
There are just not enough options on tanith and it usually comes down to "whoever holds cargo wins". There is also no real atmosphere an tanith. It aint a bad map, but it is certainly not a map i could play over and over again.
Nancy, on the other hand: Thats a great map. Several valid reloc options interesting vent system allows for safe alien travel and possible ambush oppurtunities. Mostly tight corridors with a few bigger rooms and lots of dark corners and even more obstacles (lockers) makes for an interesting CQC experience. And nancy has the 2nd best RR-secret (only topped by bast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />)
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Tanith has been good for competetive and pubbing since the very first public release. It has quite unique architecture and layout and still its also balanced for most versions. Cargo is far from crucial. One of the most interesting things is how Tanith managed to stay almost the same through the changes in 2.0 while it has been one of the top competetive maps before and after the 2.0.
Nancy is sure fun but it really is only a public map. The siegespots and overall map balance don't work in competetive. Apart from the atmosphere there isn't much great in Nancy and I've never been able to enjoy the atmosphere since it would take tons of skilled players to create an immersion of well trained marines and bloodthirsty kharaa battling for survival. Thats what the singleplayer and co-op multiplayer are for. So I guess Tanith suits everybody somehow while Nancy is for the atmosphere gamers.
Why is Tanith always quoted as beeing the one super duper NS map?
There are just not enough options on tanith and it usually comes down to "whoever holds cargo wins". There is also no real atmosphere an tanith. It aint a bad map, but it is certainly not a map i could play over and over again.
Nancy, on the other hand: Thats a great map. Several valid reloc options interesting vent system allows for safe alien travel and possible ambush oppurtunities. Mostly tight corridors with a few bigger rooms and lots of dark corners and even more obstacles (lockers) makes for an interesting CQC experience. And nancy has the 2nd best RR-secret (only topped by bast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />)
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Relocating just isn't an option with NS's current build for one simple reason: you can't change your beacon position. You'll lose every time, no matter what keyhole you set up in simply because of the burden of covering the extra position without the option of beacon. Maybe you should suggest the ability to beacon into different rooms? Maybe you have to have an IP built in a room to beacon to it or something? Seems like a bit of a nightmare in terms of potential exploits, but it would open up more strategy.
Edit: this as far as competitive goes, a pub stack can still pull it off
I have a friend that plays NS. He prefers combat 99% of the time. Of course my friend plays with a cheap mouse, which jerks a lot when he aims.
I showed him how to com in NS and although he still retains the aim/movement part of the game, he doesn't know what structures do what - something combat fails to teach.
I guess those alien/marine bot servers can be useful to teach, but he's far from "getting it".
When I LAN with him, I have to shout orders, such as get some RTs up or protect the hive. He does not seem to know what's going on. I even try to help him out such as binding +movement to mouse 2 or making hud_fastswitch 1.
I guess all this comes from playing NS for a few years.
NS mode is a lot for some people to take and most of the time, they don't bother to climb the mountain. Skill difference is a big factor in close games, but that's not the player's fault.
NS mode is a lot for some people to take and most of the time, they don't bother to climb the mountain. Skill difference is a big factor in close games, but that's not the player's fault.
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SmoodCroozn, why do you barely ever respond to the 100 players that respond to your posts? It seems like every time someone disagrees with you and shows it, you just ignore them. Why not listen to what the smarter and better players are telling you? It seems like your posts are very logically made; however, it's like a scientist coming to a conclusion without enough information: you can make the educated guess, but it's not right unless you provide the evidence.
You may have been playing this game for years now, but as far as I'm concerned, that wouldn't make you a better player than one that started a week ago. I don't say this to bash you, I say this to all players like you. Playing for a long time doesn't give you credibility. Playing the game well and knowing right from wrong, does. I remember once you said that Acid Rockets were the counter to jetpacks. 5/6 people responded calling you an idiot, and you acted like they never said anything.
What I'm trying to get at here is that theres 50 people willing to teach you the basic game mechanics. Why haven't you taken the opportunity to learn? Instead of posting over and over on how there's something wrong with the game, why not take it as it is? There's a reason why you're always complaining about stacked teams and overly powerful marines. NS is about teamwork, which is something near-impossible to manage on those 32 player servers. A 6v6-8v8 is simply more fun because you interact with the other players on a much more personal level; it's not simply just one blob of players moving towards another blob. That's not teamwork.
Don't ignore my post. Read radix007's post, at least give it a try. Get a bit better at the game, play on TG, scrim a few times, and I guarantee you will have a much brighter outlook on NS and what the devs were aiming for when they made it. Like I said, you have the potential to be a great player: It's just being held back due to stubbornness.
Put NS into a competitive environment and all of a sudden it IS about teamwork, because the skill differences are much less pronounced, so one fade can't just run in and eat 3 marines no matter who he is, he needs his team to help him, similarly one marine can't bait, and can't cover his own back, which are things you rarely need to worry about in pubs.
Increasing the ammount of players doesn't do anything to the way teamwork works in NS. In pubs it doesn't matter if there are 6 players or 12 players. You always either one of the players who wander around aimlessly, or one of the players who shouts at someone who is wandering around aimlessly to get their ###### in gear and do something. All 6 more players is is more people to shout at.
Veritas: NS isn't about teamwork. It's about the best player on the team carrying everyone else, and shouting at people who have no idea what they are doing. You must not play much pubs. The pinicle of teamwork seems to be that pubbers are learning how to bait.
Put NS into a competitive environment and all of a sudden it IS about teamwork, because the skill differences are much less pronounced, so one fade can't just run in and eat 3 marines no matter who he is, he needs his team to help him, similarly one marine can't bait, and can't cover his own back, which are things you rarely need to worry about in pubs.
Increasing the ammount of players doesn't do anything to the way teamwork works in NS. In pubs it doesn't matter if there are 6 players or 12 players. You always either one of the players who wander around aimlessly, or one of the players who shouts at someone who is wandering around aimlessly to get their ###### in gear and do something. All 6 more players is is more people to shout at.
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I somewhat agree with you. What I was trying to say is that you'll find much more rewarding experience from competitive play, rather than those 32 player servers where there's no coordination involved. Play on TG if want teamwork, that's the one pub where it actually somewhat goes on.
Veritas: NS isn't about teamwork. It's about the best player on the team carrying everyone else, and shouting at people who have no idea what they are doing. You must not play much pubs. The pinicle of teamwork seems to be that pubbers are learning how to bait.
Put NS into a competitive environment and all of a sudden it IS about teamwork, because the skill differences are much less pronounced, so one fade can't just run in and eat 3 marines no matter who he is, he needs his team to help him, similarly one marine can't bait, and can't cover his own back, which are things you rarely need to worry about in pubs.
Increasing the ammount of players doesn't do anything to the way teamwork works in NS. In pubs it doesn't matter if there are 6 players or 12 players. You always either one of the players who wander around aimlessly, or one of the players who shouts at someone who is wandering around aimlessly to get their ###### in gear and do something. All 6 more players is is more people to shout at.
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If you averaged all servers I guess you'd find that to be true, but as Veritas mentioned, TG is a wonderful server with teamwork and all the likes.
I have a theory that as the number of players increases, teamwork also increases: more players = less square footage/player on a map, therefore players will be closer together assuming random distribution :-P
[edit] To me the biggest difference is that for some reason TG seems to have a higher percentage of players who aren't clueless as to what they are doing in game...
I like TG. It can be a bit stiff with the no swearing rules, but I play the server a fair bit when it's not busy kicking me for not having a res slot.
[edit] To me the biggest difference is that for some reason TG seems to have a higher percentage of players who aren't clueless as to what they are doing in game...
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You know, that's interesting. Not so much anymore, because we've spoken out against it so much, but there was a time when it was a common (not universal or automatic or anything) misconception that TG was a "skill" pub... that you had to have some level of "cooooolness" to play on it. In fact, quite the opposite is true. I should know.
But the "they get the game" thing was a side effect of us summarily and guiltlessly removing players who created grief for adult-minded players who just wanted a "good game" with teamwork and a semblance of intelligence and respect among their teammates (and, just as importantly, their opponents). The skill merely migrated to TG, tired of having to work SO HARD elsewhere to find a "fit" for their abilities as individuals. How frustrating is it to be "awesome" only to have a team that doesn't know which way is up?
So, TG suffers from the same problem other pubs do: some players rock, and some players strive to manage a 1:1.25 KD ratio consistently, but (during prime time, to be sure) EVERYONE works together as a TEAM, and so the dynamic is the best compromise between "pub allstars" and "pro" that anyone's managed yet to find in North America.
About the slots, we've just this week launched a new system that makes it again possible for non-Supporting Members to join the full server (and be looked to LAST by the server for being bumped by incoming Supporting Members). See our NS forums for details.
If I asked for help and if I did get to Makalevi's level, would I solve the problem of one player mopping the floor of a server? You don't see what's happening at the pub level and only revert to using pathetic insults at me. How can I argue with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
So instead of looking at me, which you seem to do quite frequently, go boot up NS, go play a few pub servers and see what happens. See how one player mops the floor quite frequently and see others rage quit. Stop this 6v6 fantasy crap that seems to blind you from how NS is played.
Veritas, the reason you can't seem to understand what I'm telling you is because of your lack of thinking and narrowmindedness.
If I asked for help and if I did get to Makalevi's level, would I solve the problem of one player mopping the floor of a server? You don't see what's happening at the pub level and only revert to using pathetic insults at me. How can I argue with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
So instead of looking at me, which you seem to do quite frequently, go boot up NS, go play a few pub servers and see what happens. See how one player mops the floor quite frequently and see others rage quit. Stop this 6v6 fantasy crap that seems to blind you from how NS is played.
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TO PUT IT PLAIN AND SIMPLY: WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS YOU HATE GETTING KILLED BY BETTER PLAYERS.
Why don't you stop this 'fantasy crap' in your head that NS is an RPG and your skill should be dictated by how much agility your ###### armor gives you. I'm not bashing you when I ###### say that you should give lessons a try, do it. There's no point in arguing anymore. You're wrong, you're a ###### idiot, everyone thinks so, the few people that agree with you are either terribly bad, or just feel sorry for you.
LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOU AT NS. THEY'RE BETTER FOR A REASON.
TO PUT IT PLAIN AND SIMPLY: WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS YOU HATE GETTING KILLED BY BETTER PLAYERS.
Why don't you stop this 'fantasy crap' in your head that NS is an RPG and your skill should be dictated by how much agility your ###### armor gives you. I'm not bashing you when I ###### say that you should give lessons a try, do it. There's no point in arguing anymore. You're wrong, you're a ###### idiot, everyone thinks so, the few people that agree with you are either terribly bad, or just feel sorry for you.
LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOU AT NS. THEY'RE BETTER FOR A REASON.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My my, let's not pout our spout shall we?
Think of me as a lawyer. I do not have to have the qualities of the client that I'm representing.
NS as an RPG? Hmm... you might want to check out Phantasy Star Online. That is with the theme of future, guns, aliens of course. But I loathe RPGs, their dragged out battle systems and their tedious grinding quests, as well as their money-sucking fees.
All I'm saying is that I know people that do not commit to NS mode because it's far too demanding for them. You have to memorize key areas in maps, you have to know how to stop a gorge biling your base, you have to stop ninja phases, it takes long times to get to bigger forms, etc. It's a hardcore mode. Skill difference further magnifies the difficulties a new player faces.
Combat is instant gratification. No painful suffering as a skulk to get 75 res to onos again.
Yes, people do have different skill levels and there's nothing wrong with this, but like you said, you prefer competitive because matches tend to be equal, because the skills of the players tend to be a lot similar. But when you throw in Michael Jordan in a high school basketball game, the game totally changes. One team is owned. The other team feels useless, because MJ is doing all the work. I'm not suggesting a solution, but that's how NS is.