How to fix NS?
Harrower
Join Date: 2005-03-16 Member: 45478Members
Join Date: 2005-03-16 Member: 45478Members
Be Constructive Please. <!--coloro:#FF6600--><span style="color:#FF6600"><!--/coloro-->-Read the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/?action=community_rules" target="_blank">rules</a> please. Digz -<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
=================================================================
I'm hearing an exceptionally large number of instances of "ns is dying" out of nspickup, these forums, in-game, and even from my own personal thoughts.
What I'm not hearing (picking up on Wyz's line of reasoning) is any ideas to fix it. <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u>If</u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> NS is dying, why is it dying? <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u>If</u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> combat is more well-received than NS, why is that, and how can it be transferred over to its clearly superior bigger brother?
What kinds of things could be done to the existing game, or seen by Flayra on these forums and done differently so that the game whose complexity we have come to respect is reformed in a better manner than the current existence of NS whose existence is so ill-received that a horrible game like Combat could overtake it in popularity?
A few thoughts of mine are "A minute to learn, a lifetime to master.", obviously. And rewarding bad players for playing as much as good players (not in skill, but in enjoyment; think Nintendo's Super Smash Brothers series).
Here's the bottomline: I like ns's complexity, but ns2 is going to have the same dismal fate as its predecessor (comparitively with what its level of development deserves) if some of these problems aren't solved, and I'd hate to see NS2 watered-down into a depthless game of Combat++ because <b>the depth of skill and intelligence <i>possible</i> to play with is heavily reduced in order to please those who would never use it in the first place</b>.
<b>Again, I'm not saying new players shouldn't have fun. I'm saying that depth should be included <i>in addition</i> to fun in the early stages of learning the game.</b>
The changes to fade and lerk seem to follow this trend of "capping" the amount of skill and intelligence you're capable of putting into your part of the game, and while it might not sell to the masses, it <i>does</i> sell to your most loyal players. NS2 (and future versions of NS) will in my opinion, be worthless if that trend continues.
=================================================================
I'm hearing an exceptionally large number of instances of "ns is dying" out of nspickup, these forums, in-game, and even from my own personal thoughts.
What I'm not hearing (picking up on Wyz's line of reasoning) is any ideas to fix it. <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u>If</u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> NS is dying, why is it dying? <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u>If</u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> combat is more well-received than NS, why is that, and how can it be transferred over to its clearly superior bigger brother?
What kinds of things could be done to the existing game, or seen by Flayra on these forums and done differently so that the game whose complexity we have come to respect is reformed in a better manner than the current existence of NS whose existence is so ill-received that a horrible game like Combat could overtake it in popularity?
A few thoughts of mine are "A minute to learn, a lifetime to master.", obviously. And rewarding bad players for playing as much as good players (not in skill, but in enjoyment; think Nintendo's Super Smash Brothers series).
Here's the bottomline: I like ns's complexity, but ns2 is going to have the same dismal fate as its predecessor (comparitively with what its level of development deserves) if some of these problems aren't solved, and I'd hate to see NS2 watered-down into a depthless game of Combat++ because <b>the depth of skill and intelligence <i>possible</i> to play with is heavily reduced in order to please those who would never use it in the first place</b>.
<b>Again, I'm not saying new players shouldn't have fun. I'm saying that depth should be included <i>in addition</i> to fun in the early stages of learning the game.</b>
The changes to fade and lerk seem to follow this trend of "capping" the amount of skill and intelligence you're capable of putting into your part of the game, and while it might not sell to the masses, it <i>does</i> sell to your most loyal players. NS2 (and future versions of NS) will in my opinion, be worthless if that trend continues.
Comments
Your intentions with this thread seem admirable. I hope you get from it what you're hoping for.
1. old age
2. lack of direction in development
NS Classic is not superior to NS Combat. Combat works better than classic, since it has more realistic expectations of the players. Classic is exclusive since it actually takes half a brain to play it decently. It is virtually impossible to make classic more popular than combat for this very reason. It is also slower and more frustrating for the average player.
I don't think it is possible to make Classic the dominant form of NS without eliminating Combat. However, in doing so you will be driving away players. The best thing to do is focus on providing incentives for playing classic and increasing the fun factor of BOTH teams while considering balance changes. Currently, the fun factor is greater for the marines than aliens.
I'm not going to suggest any changes here because they don't matter without a comitment to playtesting.
Everyone knows Combat is kicking Classics ######, mostly because players don't have to count mainly on teamwork. As long as there is one good player on their team then they free levels. Combat also consists of actually being able to kill the opposing team. For example, a skulk tries to kill a marine with a heavy machine gun. The skulk leaps towards the marine, marine shoots, hits him, but doesn't kill him because the skulk may have Thickened Skin and the marine dies. Also Combat doesn't consist of building structures and accumulating resources therefore no one needs to worry about that and everyone goes straight to killing. There is also the subject with build menu, I've seen servers with build menu fill up faster than the ones without it. I find build menu really stupid because of the fact that Combat maps are small so if you put a turret factory in the middle; skulks(who can't heal that fast) will have to deal with being hit with a few tens of damage and off to attack the marines and die. Classic I have to say is harder for aliens to play, heavy machine guns and shotguns is good game for aliens especially in big Classic games when your up against about 11 marines with HMG/SG/GL. Fades run into a group of marines, BAM 300 damage. Now you know why Combat is destroying Classic, but what I've said so far is common sense.
NS is dying...? I've actually never heard anyone say that where I post my stuff in forums and in the servers I play. But I'm probably guessing I'm totally clueless and missed those comments. How is NS dying? I see no lesser amount of players, actually I see more players coming in than out. Even thought many servers are always empty daily, but there are servers that are getting popular and popular each day. For example: I-AM, Asero, G4B2S, Toxic Hell, Necrophix, [KcK]KustomKarnage, JigglyPuffs, [OldF], <BAD>, 187combat, |CoR| and I also heard aeRO was reforming. And probably a few other popular servers that I don't play on because I live too far away so I see no proof that NS is dying.
Regulars on NS may bash 3.2, but they've played enough of NS to keep on playing or sometimes take a break and comeback. I've been playing NS for I don't know how long because of constant breaks, even though there are better and more popular games out there. I still like playing NS and owning it up. I'm trying to help the community I play in, and not criticize it. I'm sure that people will stop playing NS and they might not even try NS2. But I'm sure that once NS2 comes out, more and more people will start playing it because it'll use the source engine which is known worldwide. And I even bet most of the people who are playing NS right now will try NS2 and continue to play it especially the regulars. So I really don't know why you people are constantly complaining, if you want something done, PM Flayra about whatever you want to talk about and he'll probably see what he can do. Stop flaming over the forums.
- Mullet
It's like you've been living under some rock on some deserted island in the middle of the ocean. Look through the stats archives on Steampowered.com website. <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://steampowered.com" target="_blank">Link Here</a>.
Ex. June 11, 2004 vs today. To be more fair, do it from June 11, 2004 to June 11, 2005 to account for seasonal changes. Likewise, March 2005 vs March 2006 vs March 2007. March 2004 had 1624 NS players, March 2005 had 1200 NS players, March 2007 has... 400ish NS players. Is there a trend here sir?
<!--quoteo(post=1614494:date=Mar 15 2007, 12:57 AM:name=FFMullet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FFMullet @ Mar 15 2007, 12:57 AM) [snapback]1614494[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Regulars on NS may bash 3.2, but they've played enough of NS to keep on playing or sometimes take a break and comeback. I've been playing NS for I don't know how long because of constant breaks, even though there are better and more popular games out there. I still like playing NS and owning it up. I'm trying to help the community I play in, and not criticize it. I'm sure that people will stop playing NS and they might not even try NS2. But I'm sure that once NS2 comes out, more and more people will start playing it because it'll use the source engine which is known worldwide. And I even bet most of the people who are playing NS right now will try NS2 and continue to play it especially the regulars. So I really don't know why you people are constantly complaining, if you want something done, PM Flayra about whatever you want to talk about and he'll probably see what he can do. Stop flaming over the forums.
- Mullet
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My NS colleagues left several years ago and have not returned. Personally, I can no longer pub NS and have banned it from installation on my system.
2. <u>Have the default +movement key as right click.</u> Solves ALL issues with the new fade 'being crap', and it seems like the natural way for new players to be able to actually make full use of its simplification of the fade controls. Having +movement on R or whatever as default is absolutely not using it to its max potential, for vets or for newbs. This would of course require a rebinding of +popupmenu; well, R would now be free. Guess NS would finally have a 'buy key' like those CSers keep asking for <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (but of course it doesnt actually 'buy'). --> Personally i bound the menu to a side button on my mouse... i think there might be issues with it being on the keyboard. Would need verification.
3. <u>Training videos. </u>Seriously. Go play Godfather on Xbox. It had the absolutely most beautiful training videos ever, and they were seamlessly integrated into the game.
NS is obviously not a singleplayer game, and you cant just stop the action to see a video on Gorging. But, take a few months to create videos, and then add in a 'Training Videos' to the main menu. You could have one on every class, on advanced tactics, even on maps. It would add tons to the download, but perhaps you could code it so that it downloads on request, rather than comes with the installer (i know its getting complicated, but imo this is the best way to go about things).
You could even have video making competitions, perhaps for one video at a time. Give required phrases or concepts to be shown. Or heck, do it yourselves, or request applications. I know plenty of movie editors (myself included) who would be happy to give it a shot, and there are plenty of people out there who would jump at the idea, especially if it was officially sanctioned.
Enough about Training Videos though.
4. <u>Fix spawncamping. </u>One idea floating around the I&S forums was to invisibly 'spawn in' about 2 seconds before you physically do. That way, you can orient yourself, decide where you'll attack, etc. Perhaps even add in a 1-second spawn health boost; the two mixed together would potentially be a huge balancer against the horrible fate of spawncamping.
5. This doesnt have to do with 'fixing' NS, but imo it has to do with getting alien starting chamber options to what they should be: <u>equalize the 3 chambers. </u>MC = DC now. SC needs a boost. Its simply not a viable first chamber, or at least comparatively. Some ideas have been put forward in the I&S, and we're always looking for new ones.
CS was the villian, a game where an ordinary Joe could camp behind a box and not have to answer to a Gauss gun.
after games peak in popularity, pro players make sure all the nails get in the coffin. \\
A nasty learning curve is what makes and breaks great games. in the competition for customers, they will need to please the base, and attract new pubs into a combat version that anyone can play.
besides that, after playing a game for 5 yrs or more, some people have to pay the light bill and get a job !
2. Learning how to play NS is hard. Combat certainly doesn't help things because it distorts people's view of NS - they'll end up thinking they can run into 3 shotguns and take them all out because they're used to fades with every upgrade in the game, plus some that aren't. And they'll not realize 50 res isn't something you just throw away. Even worse, NS has no tutorial - your average person's primary source of learning is from their personal experience and bits of pieces of advice from other players - often bad advice.
To put it nice and quickly, in having these two conflicting sides, the game that each desires is different. A balanced pub game won't be a balanced competetive game, and vice-versa. The developers are thus caught in a bind where they either cater to one side, or try to find a median. For the most part, they have been finding a median in making the game simpler, and thus favoring the pub style of player (at least this is how I view it to be). The game is thus caught in a limbo between the two sides, and people who are steadfast believing it should be one way or the other (extreme pubbers or extreme competetive players) lose interest. As the competetive community is dwindling due to people quitting, as mentioned above, newer players have nothing but to be forced to become pub players; the opportunity for competetion is hard, especially considering the lack of clan servers now adays (I really miss those <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />) Learning how to play NS and 2 weeks later being somewhat involved in any sort of clan is a near impossibility. A player would have to look for the option; it does not come to him.
I think the root problem is not in the developers, but in the community; NS was doing great, but somewhere along the line there started to be a split of people; the begginging of pubbers vs. competetive players. Over time this void grew and grew such that nowadays people side with one part and assume the opinions of everyone in that part; go tell a pubber that you think scripts are okay, and they'll immedietly associate you with a clanner. Go tell a competetive player that it's fun to play seige maps and they'll associate you with a pubber.
Ultimately what I feel could result in the best possible position is the merging of these two factions; this is difficult as I've found pubbers to me more... stubborn... with their beliefs, so I think it would be in NS' best interest if competetive players lightened up on noobies and tried to goof off a little more, thus, hopefully, giving credence to their name and having pubbers stop associating clanner with something that's bad.
lol this was supposed to be short
I think "pub play" and "competitive play" are misnomers. If you're going by the definitions of pub and competitive, there seems to be very little overlap between the two, when in fact all competitive players started as pubbers and remain pubbers even when they're competing. I know that I started out on the lanvancouver and then redphive.org servers, and was recruited into a clan within about a month and a half of playing the game. Even though I was in a clan, I played on the r5 servers far more than I ever spent scrimming or playing matches (at least until they were shut down).
To me it has always seemed like the "great divide" as you put it is between those who are content with their skill level, and those who seek to improve their abilities. Even though I was in clans while the r5 servers were still going strong ([TG], which was an old 1.04 era clan, and then |DL|), I was perfectly content to pub the days and nights away and not worry about how good I was at the game. When the r5 servers were taken down, without a "home" server, my clan and I began to scrim more and improve our game. After that point, I found that I really did not enjoy playing classic with a vast majority of people, mostly because they were fairly inept at the game, especially when compared to a scrimming environment. Luckily around that time combat was introduced, and I found a game mode in which I didn't have to rely on my teammates nearly as much as classic in order to achieve victory.
While I'm somewhat content to play 50 level combat until the cows come home, I can easily understand why so many competitive players have left the game. With a community so small, it can take a long time to find a scrim and so you're relegated to pugs (which from what I've heard can be a mess, and take as much time as a scrim to organize), or pubs. And if unlike me, you can't stand to play 50 level combat, then you play classic with players who seem to have no clue what they are doing (at least from the viewpoint of a competitive player). One way to take the pain of inept teammates away is pubbing with clan members or other friends, but unfortunately you can only play a couple rounds with them before you're being yelled at for stacking simply because you'd rather play with competent teammates than (3)NSPlayer screaming his 12 year old voice into the mic every 30 seconds. When you get tired of this, which most people inevitably do, then you move on to other games.
While that accounts for the competitive players leaving, that still leaves non-competitive players who have left, which is easily enough explained. We're playing a 4.5 year old game on an 8 year old engine, so of course people are going to leave to other games or even real life. That's the end of the ramble, and all I have left to say is: Jazz killed ns.
Restating the problems we all already know is not the purpose of this thread.
Additionally, the thread introduction, "How to fix NS?" assumes that there <i>are</i> ways to solve (many of) NS's problems. If you're just here to say "there's no way to fix ns", please leave. You're not helping.
I'll say it again:
Please be constructive.
Thanks.
March 2007 has... 400ish NS players.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, check this out, <a href="http://www.aserogaming.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=509" target="_blank">http://www.aserogaming.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=509</a>, Post #9. I hope this answer your question of whether NS is dying or not and if it really needs fixing.
I like StixNStonz's suggestion to fixing spawncamping, but like Ben says- accept NS1 for what it is and hope that NS2 fixes the quirks but keeps the strengths.
I like StixNStonz's suggestion to fixing spawncamping, but like Ben says- accept NS1 for what it is and hope that NS2 fixes the quirks but keeps the strengths. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->yep
It's ridiculous for aliens cuz u can be killed before you can move. At least with rines you have knock back and can kill the skulk.
As far as a suggestion, I'd say add some type of spawn invisibility or invulnerability. Failing that, some sort of hive beacon when everyone is dead. I need to be able to spawn to have fun.
NO SPAWN, NO FUN
(not really a balance issue.... if the hive is going down, its going down... I just think its cruel to allow one team to be grief'ed at the will of the other team for an indefinite amount of time and this I assure you turns off many players)
since coming back, if found that most of the servers that look good (10-16 players in, a non-siege type map) are full of bots! if i want to play for 30 or 60 mins, i can spend 10 mins just trying to find a server without bots. i would suggest all servers that use bots should include this piece of information in the server name.
another thing is that it seems there isn't really a shortage of players since i can always find 30 players on maps i want, but those players are spread over 5 different servers and NS doesn't play well in 3on3s, so i would suggest a lot of servers should consolidate. i know i lot of people like to try to log onto their clan/community servers in an effort to get pubers to join them but it seems like there are always 10 or 20 servers that have guys running 2on2s until people join up so it would be better to have 1/3 the servers with 3x the population density.
the last thing is the different skill can make. a 10on10 of low skilled players can be totally thrown out of balance with 1 guys who is great as a fade. i don't really consider this to be as much of an issue with game mechanics as with player education, since the mechanics of this game is what make it unique and great. what i would suggest with this is to include a lot of simple videos on how a lot of things work.
this could be really great for all kinds of reasons and i think a lot of games should have this type of thing. an educational video on how to be a useful skulk could be a lot of good, for example "skulks running down long straight hallways make easy targets *show from a marine's point of view a skulk running straight at him and getting shot with ease* but if they can move evasively, the marine will have a hard time hitting the skulk while it moves into bite range *show from a marines point of view a skulk closing the gap by avoiding fire by side stepping* skulks can also bunnyhop to move more quickly *show video of a skulk bunnyhopping and evading fire while closing the gap from a marines point of view* but ultimately, the best way for a skulk to close the gap with a marine is to ambush him *show video of a skulk dropping on a marine's head from an archway*" then have a video explaining how to bunnyhop.
another thing is that when someone is running a score of 30-1, and everyone else is close to 1:1 then that person is throwing a whole round out of balance. wall hackers and aim bots can have Less of an impact on the balance of a match! so if your the best NS player in the world, be aware that when you single handedly demolish a 20 player team, be aware those 20 players are not going to be playing with you for vary long unless you noob it down or find another server.
another game i own and enjoy because of the finner details in being effective is a real time strategy called company of heroes. this game has something like 30 minutes of tutorial and tens of hours of single player campaign designed to show the player different aspects of the game and how to use each tool in your arsenal to the fullest effect and it still leaves tons of stuff out. meanwhile natural selection is an even more complicated game (imo) and it has no tutorial at all!
i think it's too late for NS at this point. i think these changes would take to long to implement but for the next mod or game community that you get involved with #1 use bots responsibly #2 try to help an existing mico-community before making your own and #3 try to help newbs not get omgWTHPWNED######! every game
This is the reason that I initially stopped playing NS at 1.04. I didn't know what I was doing, and got laughed at/called a nub everywhere I went... until I found Tactical Gamer. That was the only server I had ever found that someone actually asked me if I was new, and described to me what I needed to do. Now, some people despise TGNS because of the teamwork requirement, and that's fine. But, isn't that what this game is about??
Did combat ruin classic NS? No.
Did siege, bots, or plug ins ruin NS? No.
It boils down to first impressions. If people don't have fun the first few times they play the game, why would they continue to play? Accepting new players and their level of skill is the first step in growing the player base. True gamers will continue to play NS. But some will move on, grow up, have families, etc etc. Unfortunately, the "Elitist players" seem to be the ones that are staying. (Those probably go hand in hand, but that's for another day <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> ) If you don't replace the people that move on, you will get the illusion, like right now, that the game is dying.
My 2nd thought on this topic would be the fact that development has been slow, and unreliable, and frankly... unresponsive to its players. People LOVE to see progress. Without it, no one knows whats going on; if anything! Make your player base keep coming back. Communication is probably the key here. Tell your players what you are doing. Tease, poke, and prod. Make us want to come back every day.
I was excited to see the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/blog/" target="_blank">Unknown Worlds Game Development Blog</a> go online. However, with an average <i>2 posts per month</i>, it does nothing more than what could have been accomplished on the front page of the website. More communication from the dev teams will spark interest.
There needs to be a "Public Relations" person, responsible for keeping people updated on whats going on behind the scenes. This person would have no other task than to post to the blog/forums information that would a, spark interest in potential new players and b, keep the fire tendered for the sparks that took hold.
That's my two cents. Take is as you will.
An actual bot filter would be nice too.
1. old age
2. lack of direction in development
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. You can have an old game, and as long as it's fun and there is new content you'll have people. New content is critical really to a game community's overall well being: humans simply get bored eventually if it's the exact same thing. For lack of direction in development, I disagree and feel it's more of a weak (not a complete lack) direction in leadership. In my opinion, we need more people making new maps, new content, etc.
For a long time I've felt that we need an organized system of contests (with real prizes) in this community for the best made custom content. It generates some fun competition (if administrated well and not allowed to turn sour) and makes some cycles of regeneration for the community and the game, the gift that gives if you will.
lack of direction vs. weak direction in leadership?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
have more people make new custom content for a game that isn't popular??
Maybe there's some credit to your last idea, but that should have been done back when the game was actually doing well.
words
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Elitist attitude killed the game? Go look at CS. I gaurantee you the a-holes in NS are nothing compared to the ones in CS yet that game is thriving. Everyone wants to blame the pro player because its the easy way out. Hell we make a great scapegoat eh?
No sorry it wasnt elitist attitude. That doesnt turn everyone away from a game and I'm living proof. Yeah I was once very unskilled and was occasionally met with ridiculetowards my skill, but I rose abaove it and am now in the top north American NS team.
Did combat kill this game? To an extent it drew more players in but alot of those new players dont want to play NS_maps. Now i find most combat nubs are perplexed when you explain to them that there is another mode of NS, and that xmenu doesnt come standard on all combat servers.
Extrapolate that argument how you will, but it's worth considering. I'd expand on it myself, but I just got off baby duty, and it's already past my bedtime.
generic elitist comments
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
look at how the game was played when you started and look at it now.
the community of NS has turned into a bunch of ######weeds and ###### for the most part. People quit CS, but since it's so easy, people keep playing it. that's why it lives on is the simplicity of the game outwins the ######, especially considering it's easy (at least for me) to find good, non ######head servers. honestly, just try to imagine the ish new players have to deal with, and take into high account for the fact that NS isn't just point and click like CS. you have to do ish.
as for combat killing the game, I actually today asked some pubbers what they thought on this matter: they agreed. they felt that combat has ruined the prospect for making/creating servers that play only ns_ maps, and thus you're only left with the big 30 player servers where tehre's hardly a game going on. trying to open a smaller server just isn't beneficial. It's unfortunate this is the case, and personally I think the remedy is just to host these empty classic servers... talking about classic/combat in the server as i mentioned before sparked a few of the players to say "hey, I feel like palying some classic right now".
don't wanna be cliche, but "if you build it they will come"
and im sorry this post sucks, im tired and the shift key is a lamer who stole my best friend and had sex with it.
A-holes existed then, a-holes exist now. Thats not going to change.
You're very ignorant fat man. You failed to correctly interpret my post and pass it off as "generic elitist comments."
Shame.
the way i see it is.. we lose more people because noone plays NS maps anymore, most of the people who play NS now came from CS, when CO came out we lost all of the team work players, they moved on because the population of NS maps declined rapidly, therefore the fun was decreased. Myself i love ns, but finding a server in australia who are playing NS is hard, and custom servers people rather play CO and no NS maps ever get played. If we removed CO from natural selection altogether, we would just have all the CO players go back to playing CS where they came from, which when you think about it, isnt really much of a loss. We would just have the original players who loved original NS come back..
CO is just CS with different models and different weapons.. the only thing CO is good for is spamming kills and being 1st on the list..
I know CO was released to let ppl just fight it out, but it ruined the core of pub NS, playing NS with locals and not clannies nowadays is like asking a bunch of old people with very bad bladder problems to sit still, it just doesnt work, they will listen for a while but then they run off and wont listen anymore..
NS is harder to learn. But it was alot harder in 1.0, If you ask and read the tutorial ns came with you wouldnt
have so much trouble knowing whats what..
remove CO from natural selection.. that would fix NS....