<!--quoteo(post=1599978:date=Jan 19 2007, 12:58 AM:name=Zerohourrct)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zerohourrct @ Jan 19 2007, 12:58 AM) [snapback]1599978[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I always kind of envisioned a two sided phase gate, like in that 1970s sci-fi picture. Being able to see through the phase gate allows a little bit of tactical advantage for the Marines, and could also help the Aliens locate the gate on the other side. I do think that shooting through it would be dumb, and only Marines should be let through them; the Marines build the things, why would they make them so they send aliens through! (although corruption of Marine structures through dynamic infestation could be interesting...).
The warp would always be open in my view of the gate. However, you would not see a seamless picture from one side to the other; but rather, a small, fluctuating "hallway" type thing; like a wormhole. This way, any thing in the game can enter through the portal. Once they are through the portal completely, the portal starts pulling them towards the other side; bullets, aliens, and marines. HOWEVER, once in the middle of this "warpway", the portal analyzes what is going through. If it is Alien or something that shouldn't go through, it ejects it backwards rapidly; out the side it enters.
This would mostly be purely visual, but it would be hilarious to see bullets that are fired into the portal come flying back out in various directions, and would add to the general appeal/coolness factor. It also serves a function to prevent you from getting a full 180 degree view of both sides of the portal, even though the portal machine is basically flat. Aliens could also jump in them to get a slightly wider view of the other side, or just to see what would happen; it is more fun to be ejected from a huge portal than for the Marines to use their black tech magic to warp.
The other advantage to double sided warp gates is multi-directional warp throughout the PG network. With two sides, a commander could customize each warpgate, so it could lead out the other side of its own gate, make a few gates in the marine spawn go everywhere, and even shut off a side of a gate to help facilitate Marine movement.
So, if we got 2 hives locked and a 3rd phasegate near the 3rd hive location we need, SIX phasegates? That would increase cost alot since every link need 2 PGs, instead of one in base serial connected with all the others.
This still leave the problem of 2 people entering at same time block each other from teleporting. ALSO aliens can stand right infront of the teleport blocking it from incomeing marines, and as soon as they teleport the aliens can knock them back in, never allowing marines to the other side.
No no you don't get what im saying. Each portal has two sides, so it can link to two other portals sides (2 other portals maximum). With three portals, you can link each portal to the other two portals. Or you could be silly and link one portal side to its other side, or link both sides of one portal to both sides of a second portal. You could also shut off one or both sides of a portal if you wanted; but again this is up the the decisions of the commander. Aliens pushing you back through would be annoying; but I was thinking that once Marines are in the warp, shooting bullets will make them come out the side closest to them; so you could shoot aliens just camping the front of the gate as you go through.
<!--quoteo(post=1600168:date=Jan 19 2007, 08:38 PM:name=Zerohourrct)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zerohourrct @ Jan 19 2007, 08:38 PM) [snapback]1600168[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> No no you don't get what im saying. Each portal has two sides, so it can link to two other portals sides (2 other portals maximum). With three portals, you can link each portal to the other two portals. Or you could be silly and link one portal side to its other side, or link both sides of one portal to both sides of a second portal. You could also shut off one or both sides of a portal if you wanted; but again this is up the the decisions of the commander. Aliens pushing you back through would be annoying; but I was thinking that once Marines are in the warp, shooting bullets will make them come out the side closest to them; so you could shoot aliens just camping the front of the gate as you go through. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh sorry about that, I get it now.
Tell me if im wrong, do you mean you can shoot bullets tru the portals? If so, it would NEVER be fair.
Tell more how it's going to be implented, do the comm view get another button? IE How to do the ACTUAL linking of portals.
Well, there would have to be a default system so that one side of a portal links to the next portal in the list and the other side links to the portal back in the list (or something of that nature; minimizing micro-management), and then commanders can customize it if they really want to. I would say that each Phase Gate (when you select one) just has a new button/buttons to link their sides to a different gate, or turn off the portal/close the door.
As for shooting through the gates, I proposed a sort of wormhole "hallway" between one side of a link and the other. Anything in the hallway is (automatically) forced to either the other side if it is Marine or the side it entered if enemy. However, Marines could be allowed to shoot once they are halfway through the hallway out the side they are moving too; this way Marines can kill aliens camping the direct front of the gate before aliens can bite them and push them back through the gate. Aliens could fire into the gate or jump into it when a Marine is halfway through as well, but they expose themselves to Marine gunfire and in the case of jumping in will be between the Marine and the Gate when they are forced back out.
I uploaded a little picture to illustrate but for some reason it isn't showing up...
So there is a empty "limbo" space between the entrence and the exit <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> ?
Yeah, like this.[attachmentid=35498]White space is the background; this warp gate's sides are linked to each other, so you just see the limbo space. If the developers can do dynamic infestation, I have full confidence they can do this, heheh.
<!--quoteo(post=1600241:date=Jan 20 2007, 01:58 AM:name=Zerohourrct)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zerohourrct @ Jan 20 2007, 01:58 AM) [snapback]1600241[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yeah, like this.[attachmentid=35498]White space is the background; this warp gate's sides are linked to each other, so you just see the limbo space. If the developers can do dynamic infestation, I have full confidence they can do this, heheh. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think of this scenario:
The PG is under attack by 2 skulks and a fade
The comm drops a GL
A marine picks it up, goes into the PG and while in limbo he lobs as many grenades he can.
When the marines gets to the other side, he simply puts in reverse and can fire the rest of the grenades on his way back.
2 skulks dead, a fade damaged
Rince and repeat
Also if we have a standard of 2 portals linked to each other and 2 marines enter, one from each side, they will block each other inside the portal since their being pushed to opposite sides.
Another note is that aliens can block by building infront of the PG effectivly keeping marines out a good while. This isnt the case on the current PG as they have to build ON it, which isnt possible anymore.
Well, Aliens could jump into the Portal as the other Marine comes through and bite him, they could go to the opposite side of the portal (where the grenades couldn't damage them), and keep in mind that if you had friendly fire on (I wish this was a default) those grenades would damage your phase gate quite a bit. I think this would do a lot to stop the PG Troop camping and force the Aliens to approach the PG a little differently. Plus, it would make it a little harder for the Marines, because they need some open space for these PGs or else they would be seriously cramped, whereas the current PGs look large but are not much bigger than an alien chamber, and not even as close as tall.
I also figured people that are in the limbo space just kind of "phase" through each other, because it would be dumb to have people bumping into each other inside the limbo space, like you said.
And as for building infront to block it, you can already do this now. It isn't very effective because the chamber will either A.) get killed by the constant influx of marines or B.) will be protected by aliens that are already killing the PG anyways. As for space blocking, the structure should obviously be made larger than the current PG by a little, that way Marines can't come out of the gate stuck on a chamber. I think that this would be interesting and I want to see it tested or atleast prototyped instead of just gunning it down due to possible problems; it could be a viable alternative to the current PG, and it would be so damn cooler than the current PG if it functioned good. More cool factor means more people!
<!--quoteo(post=1600392:date=Jan 20 2007, 07:14 PM:name=Zerohourrct)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zerohourrct @ Jan 20 2007, 07:14 PM) [snapback]1600392[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, Aliens could jump into the Portal as the other Marine comes through and bite him, they could go to the opposite side of the portal (where the grenades couldn't damage them), and keep in mind that if you had friendly fire on (I wish this was a default) those grenades would damage your phase gate quite a bit. I think this would do a lot to stop the PG Troop camping and force the Aliens to approach the PG a little differently. Plus, it would make it a little harder for the Marines, because they need some open space for these PGs or else they would be seriously cramped, whereas the current PGs look large but are not much bigger than an alien chamber, and not even as close as tall.
I also figured people that are in the limbo space just kind of "phase" through each other, because it would be dumb to have people bumping into each other inside the limbo space, like you said.
And as for building infront to block it, you can already do this now. It isn't very effective because the chamber will either A.) get killed by the constant influx of marines or B.) will be protected by aliens that are already killing the PG anyways. As for space blocking, the structure should obviously be made larger than the current PG by a little, that way Marines can't come out of the gate stuck on a chamber. I think that this would be interesting and I want to see it tested or atleast prototyped instead of just gunning it down due to possible problems; it could be a viable alternative to the current PG, and it would be so damn cooler than the current PG if it functioned good. More cool factor means more people! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your being unclear about how stuff works inside the PG, can aliens use it to go to the other side now? Arnt they pushed out as you said earlier?
No, you cannot build stuff on PGs anymore, not in 3.2, unless im missing something. You would have to build a circle around the PG to block marines and that takes way to much time and res then its worth.
I get that marines can shoot while in the limbo space to the other side, but this limbo space isnt big is it? It should just take a second or so to teleport, no running tru a long corridor. So they dont get enough time to destroy the blocking building until their pushed back again.
The base of the new PG would be large enough so that Aliens cannot physically wall off the exit with a chamber. Aliens could be allowed to jump into the limbo space, carried halfway, then turn around and be pushed out the side they entered from; so they can engage Marines if the Marines are just hopping back and forth to spam while inside the limbo space. I think going through the limbo should take 2 to 3 seconds. I just want to see it tested.
The actual version of the "new" PG doesn't have to be anything like this, it's up to the devs, but I think my ideas are pretty cool and would do good in a test.
And if you want your idea in you should do the thinking, devs might change your idea to their taste but you should do enough braining to have it ready to be implented.
i like it, looks great and sounds good. But i think maybe you have a choise as marines to put the old (10res) or the new one(15res) But the new one takes more place, because there is a small generator.
Back in ns 1.xx aliens could use pg's to get back to marine spawn which was a ton of fun. It added some cool dynamics and a reason not to leave phase gates unattended. Makes it possible to chase after the cowardly marine using the pg to get to saftey.. even if the alien gets shredded to bits shortly after.
I think there should be 2 types of phasegates. One that works just like the one we have now, and another, more expensive, that allows everything go through, even aliens and their attackings. BUT This expensive gate cannot be sold. Aliens can only destroy it. Thisway, if marines do this kind of hiverush, their own base becomes more vurnerable since 2 gorges could like bile bomb through that gate to their base.
I personally see the 'Portal' portal as a better alien structure (maybe as a part of mcs) It seems to fit the alien style better than that of marines. Aliens obviously wouldn't have the advantage of shooting through, unless it was some strange gorge strategy. It could potentially be used to block bullets, but i can't tell if thats good or bad and depends on how it would be implemented. Aliens would only run the risk of having their hive shot down through one if they were stupid enough to put them in bad places.
Comments
I always kind of envisioned a two sided phase gate, like in that 1970s sci-fi picture. Being able to see through the phase gate allows a little bit of tactical advantage for the Marines, and could also help the Aliens locate the gate on the other side. I do think that shooting through it would be dumb, and only Marines should be let through them; the Marines build the things, why would they make them so they send aliens through! (although corruption of Marine structures through dynamic infestation could be interesting...).
The warp would always be open in my view of the gate. However, you would not see a seamless picture from one side to the other; but rather, a small, fluctuating "hallway" type thing; like a wormhole. This way, any thing in the game can enter through the portal. Once they are through the portal completely, the portal starts pulling them towards the other side; bullets, aliens, and marines. HOWEVER, once in the middle of this "warpway", the portal analyzes what is going through. If it is Alien or something that shouldn't go through, it ejects it backwards rapidly; out the side it enters.
This would mostly be purely visual, but it would be hilarious to see bullets that are fired into the portal come flying back out in various directions, and would add to the general appeal/coolness factor. It also serves a function to prevent you from getting a full 180 degree view of both sides of the portal, even though the portal machine is basically flat. Aliens could also jump in them to get a slightly wider view of the other side, or just to see what would happen; it is more fun to be ejected from a huge portal than for the Marines to use their black tech magic to warp.
The other advantage to double sided warp gates is multi-directional warp throughout the PG network. With two sides, a commander could customize each warpgate, so it could lead out the other side of its own gate, make a few gates in the marine spawn go everywhere, and even shut off a side of a gate to help facilitate Marine movement.
I made a quick image and attached it, clickey!
[attachmentid=35499]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, if we got 2 hives locked and a 3rd phasegate near the 3rd hive location we need, SIX phasegates? That would increase cost alot since every link need 2 PGs, instead of one in base serial connected with all the others.
This still leave the problem of 2 people entering at same time block each other from teleporting.
ALSO aliens can stand right infront of the teleport blocking it from incomeing marines, and as soon as they teleport the aliens can knock them back in, never allowing marines to the other side.
This idea is BAD.
No no you don't get what im saying. Each portal has two sides, so it can link to two other portals sides (2 other portals maximum). With three portals, you can link each portal to the other two portals. Or you could be silly and link one portal side to its other side, or link both sides of one portal to both sides of a second portal. You could also shut off one or both sides of a portal if you wanted; but again this is up the the decisions of the commander. Aliens pushing you back through would be annoying; but I was thinking that once Marines are in the warp, shooting bullets will make them come out the side closest to them; so you could shoot aliens just camping the front of the gate as you go through.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh sorry about that, I get it now.
Tell me if im wrong, do you mean you can shoot bullets tru the portals? If so, it would NEVER be fair.
Tell more how it's going to be implented, do the comm view get another button? IE How to do the ACTUAL linking of portals.
As for shooting through the gates, I proposed a sort of wormhole "hallway" between one side of a link and the other. Anything in the hallway is (automatically) forced to either the other side if it is Marine or the side it entered if enemy. However, Marines could be allowed to shoot once they are halfway through the hallway out the side they are moving too; this way Marines can kill aliens camping the direct front of the gate before aliens can bite them and push them back through the gate. Aliens could fire into the gate or jump into it when a Marine is halfway through as well, but they expose themselves to Marine gunfire and in the case of jumping in will be between the Marine and the Gate when they are forced back out.
I uploaded a little picture to illustrate but for some reason it isn't showing up...
Yeah, like this.[attachmentid=35498]White space is the background; this warp gate's sides are linked to each other, so you just see the limbo space. If the developers can do dynamic infestation, I have full confidence they can do this, heheh.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think of this scenario:
The PG is under attack by 2 skulks and a fade
The comm drops a GL
A marine picks it up, goes into the PG and while in limbo he lobs as many grenades he can.
When the marines gets to the other side, he simply puts in reverse and can fire the rest of the grenades on his way back.
2 skulks dead, a fade damaged
Rince and repeat
Also if we have a standard of 2 portals linked to each other and 2 marines enter, one from each side, they will block each other inside the portal since their being pushed to opposite sides.
Another note is that aliens can block by building infront of the PG effectivly keeping marines out a good while. This isnt the case on the current PG as they have to build ON it, which isnt possible anymore.
I also figured people that are in the limbo space just kind of "phase" through each other, because it would be dumb to have people bumping into each other inside the limbo space, like you said.
And as for building infront to block it, you can already do this now. It isn't very effective because the chamber will either A.) get killed by the constant influx of marines or B.) will be protected by aliens that are already killing the PG anyways. As for space blocking, the structure should obviously be made larger than the current PG by a little, that way Marines can't come out of the gate stuck on a chamber. I think that this would be interesting and I want to see it tested or atleast prototyped instead of just gunning it down due to possible problems; it could be a viable alternative to the current PG, and it would be so damn cooler than the current PG if it functioned good. More cool factor means more people!
Well, Aliens could jump into the Portal as the other Marine comes through and bite him, they could go to the opposite side of the portal (where the grenades couldn't damage them), and keep in mind that if you had friendly fire on (I wish this was a default) those grenades would damage your phase gate quite a bit. I think this would do a lot to stop the PG Troop camping and force the Aliens to approach the PG a little differently. Plus, it would make it a little harder for the Marines, because they need some open space for these PGs or else they would be seriously cramped, whereas the current PGs look large but are not much bigger than an alien chamber, and not even as close as tall.
I also figured people that are in the limbo space just kind of "phase" through each other, because it would be dumb to have people bumping into each other inside the limbo space, like you said.
And as for building infront to block it, you can already do this now. It isn't very effective because the chamber will either A.) get killed by the constant influx of marines or B.) will be protected by aliens that are already killing the PG anyways. As for space blocking, the structure should obviously be made larger than the current PG by a little, that way Marines can't come out of the gate stuck on a chamber. I think that this would be interesting and I want to see it tested or atleast prototyped instead of just gunning it down due to possible problems; it could be a viable alternative to the current PG, and it would be so damn cooler than the current PG if it functioned good. More cool factor means more people!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your being unclear about how stuff works inside the PG, can aliens use it to go to the other side now? Arnt they pushed out as you said earlier?
No, you cannot build stuff on PGs anymore, not in 3.2, unless im missing something. You would have to build a circle around the PG to block marines and that takes way to much time and res then its worth.
I get that marines can shoot while in the limbo space to the other side, but this limbo space isnt big is it? It should just take a second or so to teleport, no running tru a long corridor. So they dont get enough time to destroy the blocking building until their pushed back again.
The actual version of the "new" PG doesn't have to be anything like this, it's up to the devs, but I think my ideas are pretty cool and would do good in a test.
And if you want your idea in you should do the thinking, devs might change your idea to their taste but you should do enough braining to have it ready to be implented.
But i think maybe you have a choise as marines to put the old (10res) or the new one(15res)
But the new one takes more place, because there is a small generator.
It added some cool dynamics and a reason not to leave phase gates unattended.
Makes it possible to chase after the cowardly marine using the pg to get to saftey.. even if the alien gets shredded to bits shortly after.
It seems to fit the alien style better than that of marines. Aliens obviously wouldn't have the advantage of shooting through, unless it was some strange gorge strategy. It could potentially be used to block bullets, but i can't tell if thats good or bad and depends on how it would be implemented. Aliens would only run the risk of having their hive shot down through one if they were stupid enough to put them in bad places.