NS2 can't come fast enough now. I never dreamed that there were going to be such huge changes to the gameplay. I am definitely looking forward to this more than any next gen console games.
Again, I'd make it as interactive as possible. Don't restrict it to just some pseudo physical properties. Make it really visceral to the rines trying to cross over it. I can play any game with random goop that hurts me, but this looks to be something that will be gameplay-altering and innovate something useful for a change.
EDIT: Although, considering what I've seen on how bad HL2 is at interacting smoothly with clients who walk on movable objects, I can understand why you'd make it a "muck" to move through instead of something to actually walk on. Kind of was looking forward to walking along the top of it, but meh. Is there any ideas on how this functionality will work yet?
If I haven't already I just wanted to throw in my support for the coolness of dynamic infestation. Structures like what is being done here I can see useful all over FPS gaming, as it's been something I've been playing with and loving in RTS games since forever. It's VERY cool and a huge feather in your caps that you got this running on the HL2 engine, as I would have guessed it was impossible if asked previously.
What an awesome addition to an already awesome game, my hat goes off to the developers. I do have a suggestion you can choose to use (or not) or simply let the creativity sizzle.
1. What we can see here is the bacterium growing (Green arrows) from the point of origin (marked with an X) which could be a hive, Resource Tower or an other type of tower. The bacterium grows from this source towards the intersection and then in all possible directions. At all times it is connected to a structure, RT or Hive.
2. We now see a marine team (Red Arrow) as they rush through the corridor and destroying ALL the bacterium in their path. They destroy it on the walls, ceiling and floor thus breaking the connection with point X. This is done by using their weapons or whatever items the developers come up with to remove bacterium.
3. Without a connection to a structure, hive or RT the bacterium begins to wither and die. Unless the bacterium on the other side regrows and reachs the dieing bacterium. This would also further the use of gorges to repair the alien infrastructure as they could connect the bacterium faster.
4. In this situation we see that the Marines managed to cut a path with their weapons through one way of the source of the bacterium to the spread but the spread still had a connection with the source from a different route, and thus survives.
What this does is that the bacterium will not be too biased towards the aliens. It also gives the marines a much better way of clearing bacterium then to look all over the map in every nook or cranny for little pieces of bacterium. The marines would have to think strategicly where they can "cut" the veins of the kharaa. Intersections and crossing would suddenly become small tactical objectives.
The Gorge would gain more strategic viability since it can "link" sections of bacterium together. Structures could also be placed on dieing bacterium in order to save it. (creating another point of origin)
<!--quoteo(post=1589980:date=Dec 19 2006, 12:57 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 19 2006, 12:57 AM) [snapback]1589980[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> But if marines can erase bacterium by just walking over it in groups, what's the point of clearing it? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't say they just walked over it, I say they cleared the area they travelled across with their weapons. (flamethrowers?) and with the destruction to the bacterium caused by the weapons it will reside/die thus severing the link with the bacterium producing structure/thing. See it as hacking of a limb, you can reattach it but if you don't act quickly it will die.
They would have to make sure they really did severed the link, because even a small skulksized trail from one heap of the bacterium to the other counts as a link.
<!--quoteo(post=1589922:date=Dec 18 2006, 09:40 PM:name=Flyingdutchman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flyingdutchman @ Dec 18 2006, 09:40 PM) [snapback]1589922[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It also gives the marines a much better way of clearing bacterium then to look all over the map in every nook or cranny for little pieces of bacterium. The marines would have to think strategicly where they can "cut" the veins of the kharaa. Intersections and crossing would suddenly become small tactical objectives.
The Gorge would gain more strategic viability since it can "link" sections of bacterium together. Structures could also be placed on dieing bacterium in order to save it. (creating another point of origin) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If a intersection of veigns get hit, it could mean massive damage for the alien team.
Only problem that bacteria isn't something that has to be "linked" in order to work. Otherwise it wouldn't even be bacteria anymore but something totally different.
While this idea is interesting, I seriously doubt that it would be accepted that well, unless Charlie is willing to actually call the bacteria for something else.
Isn't it a bit early for non dev's to be deciding on gameplay significance? Isn't it a bit retarded to refuse a positive gameplay feature based on the fact that it would require a new backstory mechanic? Recall after all, this is the game where firearms materialize out of the sky so marines can grab them and teleport into the hive cluster to manually and with high risk to self destroy the clusters. Why would we not just materialize high explosives and teleport them onto the hives?
<!--quoteo(post=1590131:date=Dec 19 2006, 08:49 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Dec 19 2006, 08:49 AM) [snapback]1590131[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why would we not just materialize high explosives and teleport them onto the hives? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Retrieval specimens? Extra resources?
Knowledge about the blah blah blah <insert excuse here>
Why not nuke the hive or area in the first place? Makes more sense to actually go in after bacteria, but nooo.....lets sacrifice hundreds of thousands of dollars shooting bugs. Not like we lose men and its just a bad tactical idea to go into a place you know full well we are going to dozens of men.
I think the "di" isnt really bacteria. Its another reproduction of that bacteria. Like mold. THAT would explain why it would wither and wilt if cut off.
Don't confuse infestation with bacteria. Bacteria are the size of human cells, remember? The infestation is more something they excrete than an actual mass of bacteria.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1590142:date=Dec 19 2006, 04:13 AM:name=waterbuster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(waterbuster @ Dec 19 2006, 04:13 AM) [snapback]1590142[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Retrieval specimens? Extra resources?
Knowledge about the blah blah blah <insert excuse here> Why not nuke the hive or area in the first place? Makes more sense to actually go in after bacteria, but nooo.....lets sacrifice hundreds of thousands of dollars shooting bugs. Not like we lose men and its just a bad tactical idea to go into a place you know full well we are going to dozens of men. I think the "di" isnt really bacteria. Its another reproduction of that bacteria. Like mold. THAT would explain why it would wither and wilt if cut off. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The TSA is trying to save the space ships, not destroy them. Nuking a multibillion dollar spaceship isn't exactly cost-effective, nor is using other forms of high explosives.
Hm... a random thought crossed my head. Would a Gorge be able to build chambers anywhere on the infestation?
I'm thinking stuff like, OCs on the ceiling, or DCs on every wall of a hallway to block the way completely untill they got destroyed or the creep died off and they'd fall off and die.
<!--quoteo(post=1590326:date=Dec 19 2006, 04:34 PM:name=Khaze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Khaze @ Dec 19 2006, 04:34 PM) [snapback]1590326[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Hm... a random thought crossed my head. Would a Gorge be able to build chambers anywhere on the infestation?
I'm thinking stuff like, OCs on the ceiling, or DCs on every wall of a hallway to block the way completely untill they got destroyed or the creep died off and they'd fall off and die. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sure he would be able to build on the infestation, idk about ceilings though. But we will have to see <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1590465:date=Dec 20 2006, 06:34 AM:name=tigersmith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tigersmith @ Dec 20 2006, 06:34 AM) [snapback]1590465[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Im sure he would be able to build on the infestation, idk about ceilings though. But we will have to see <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, of course, but currently Gorges are limited to using only the floor to build chambers. Would be neat to be able to put, say, sensory chambers up to a hidden place where the marines would be unlikely to spot it and kill it.
Of course if this were to happen you'd have to give Gorges a limited wallwalk ability while on the creep, probably...
Looks kool but i didn't see a "thanx to the community" as it has been discussed many times and with different approaches by a lot of people. Maybee the exitment of anouncing a thing make people forget...
Woot, starcraft creep style would be totally sweet. Infestation spreading from hives and RTs, give aliens faster health regeneration or something while they're inside it. So many possibilities, very awesome idea.
A really neat effect could be achieved by combining directional growth with radial growth. Several heads of directional growth moving outward and crossing then filling in between them would really give the visual effect of aliens taking over the area.
Consistency for high level play. Although it would add another level of play to the game at the high lvl play. It seems it's unpredictability could add an element of chance to the game... Perhaps it should always be seeded with the same input to the random function for hives and such to get a consistent output across games?
Growth speed, perhaps it should change with proximity to the source? (Dropping off farther away) It makes sense and would help balance what ever effects the creep has on marines.
What effects will it have? I think that aliens when on the ground should be able to crouch into it, moving slower but taking less damage, using it for cover basically, perhaps healing... Marines should move slower on it or take damage if they stand still on it. But they need something to help them clear it... Grenades, flamethrower, and welder are obvious options.
A hive being built could slow begin emitting slime so that by the time it is done the hive room would be nearly totally covered in the slime.
It would be really nice looking if eggs grew upward out of the slime, slowly becoming uncovered. Chambers should also be 1/2 covered in the creep. Offense chambers especially. It would help with creating "walls" and increase the usefulness of OCs.
I like how this looks and it shows great potential.
<!--quoteo(post=1590287:date=Dec 19 2006, 06:56 PM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Dec 19 2006, 06:56 PM) [snapback]1590287[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The TSA is trying to save the space ships, not destroy them. Nuking a multibillion dollar spaceship isn't exactly cost-effective, nor is using other forms of high explosives. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Point.
Alright....then how about a high-velocity projectile that would break a whole into the side of a ship, and vacuum out the bacteria?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In addition to being an atmospheric visual effect, having dynamic infestation gives us opportunities to develop some interesting game play elements. High on our list is having map entities which are triggered when an area becomes infested or uninfested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about giving the welder in NS2 a secondary fire feature that burns away the bacterial infestation like a flame thrower?
It could be used to clear away the infestation from control panels/buttons to make them operational when marines need them.
It would also be sweet if you could instantly torch skulks if they try to sneak up on you while you are repairing a damaged RT in a dark lonely hallway.
Imagine lighting a skulk up in flames so your teamates with the big guns in-hand can spot him faster.
i dont mind flameing sulks, but i really think it would breach the gore factor.
get your mum or someone else/old ladie type child bareing protector of the peace to watch over your shoulder, while you play Postal 2
she will tell you out right the people running around screaming on fire as there fleash peals from there body is more gorie, than that of shoveing a riot shotgun up their nose and pulling the trigger.
*note this statment doesnt involve cat A55 silencers or being high on matrix mode cat nip at the time of said decapitation with said 12 gague
Flaming skulks doesn't HAVE to be gory, look at TFC. When you set someone on fire in TFC there is no gore. They are set on fire, and slowly lose health with no effect on the model.
you want the game to have old school HL graphics? whats the point in setting something of fire with awsome fire effect and not have it effect the model play style play screams of pain and agony
fair enough TFC or 1.5 has prolly the least goryest running burning objects
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
i'd like to see the hive locations use dynamic infestation also , the hive would grow and become the room <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Wow, that video is SICK! The infestation looks great, a bit too bumpy for me though but still so awesome.
I definately think the welder should be able to burn infestation away, or atleast some parts of it. Also I think it would be REALLY hard to balance if the aliens could ONLY build on the creep, so IMO; no to that.
I also really like the idea of maybe aliens making less noise walking on infestation, but when marines walk on it makes lots of slurpy, slimy noises.
Comments
EDIT: Although, considering what I've seen on how bad HL2 is at interacting smoothly with clients who walk on movable objects, I can understand why you'd make it a "muck" to move through instead of something to actually walk on. Kind of was looking forward to walking along the top of it, but meh. Is there any ideas on how this functionality will work yet?
I do have a suggestion you can choose to use (or not) or simply let the creativity sizzle.
1. What we can see here is the bacterium growing (Green arrows) from the point of origin (marked with an X) which could be a hive, Resource Tower or an other type of tower.
The bacterium grows from this source towards the intersection and then in all possible directions.
At all times it is connected to a structure, RT or Hive.
2. We now see a marine team (Red Arrow) as they rush through the corridor and destroying ALL the bacterium in their path.
They destroy it on the walls, ceiling and floor thus breaking the connection with point X.
This is done by using their weapons or whatever items the developers come up with to remove bacterium.
3. Without a connection to a structure, hive or RT the bacterium begins to wither and die.
Unless the bacterium on the other side regrows and reachs the dieing bacterium.
This would also further the use of gorges to repair the alien infrastructure as they could connect the bacterium faster.
4. In this situation we see that the Marines managed to cut a path with their weapons through one way of the source of the bacterium to the spread but the spread still had a connection with the source from a different route, and thus survives.
<img src="http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4673/creepgrowthsj8.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/1879/creepgrowth2ne4.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
What this does is that the bacterium will not be too biased towards the aliens.
It also gives the marines a much better way of clearing bacterium then to look all over the map in every nook or cranny for little pieces of bacterium.
The marines would have to think strategicly where they can "cut" the veins of the kharaa.
Intersections and crossing would suddenly become small tactical objectives.
The Gorge would gain more strategic viability since it can "link" sections of bacterium together.
Structures could also be placed on dieing bacterium in order to save it. (creating another point of origin)
But if marines can erase bacterium by just walking over it in groups, what's the point of clearing it?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't say they just walked over it, I say they cleared the area they travelled across with their weapons. (flamethrowers?) and with the destruction to the bacterium caused by the weapons it will reside/die thus severing the link with the bacterium producing structure/thing.
See it as hacking of a limb, you can reattach it but if you don't act quickly it will die.
They would have to make sure they really did severed the link, because even a small skulksized trail from one heap of the bacterium to the other counts as a link.
It also gives the marines a much better way of clearing bacterium then to look all over the map in every nook or cranny for little pieces of bacterium.
The marines would have to think strategicly where they can "cut" the veins of the kharaa.
Intersections and crossing would suddenly become small tactical objectives.
The Gorge would gain more strategic viability since it can "link" sections of bacterium together.
Structures could also be placed on dieing bacterium in order to save it. (creating another point of origin)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a intersection of veigns get hit, it could mean massive damage for the alien team.
While this idea is interesting, I seriously doubt that it would be accepted that well, unless Charlie is willing to actually call the bacteria for something else.
Why would we not just materialize high explosives and teleport them onto the hives?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Retrieval specimens? Extra resources?
Knowledge about the blah blah blah <insert excuse here>
Why not nuke the hive or area in the first place? Makes more sense to actually go in after bacteria, but nooo.....lets sacrifice hundreds of thousands of dollars shooting bugs. Not like we lose men and its just a bad tactical idea to go into a place you know full well we are going to dozens of men.
I think the "di" isnt really bacteria. Its another reproduction of that bacteria. Like mold. THAT would explain why it would wither and wilt if cut off.
Retrieval specimens? Extra resources?
Knowledge about the blah blah blah <insert excuse here>
Why not nuke the hive or area in the first place? Makes more sense to actually go in after bacteria, but nooo.....lets sacrifice hundreds of thousands of dollars shooting bugs. Not like we lose men and its just a bad tactical idea to go into a place you know full well we are going to dozens of men.
I think the "di" isnt really bacteria. Its another reproduction of that bacteria. Like mold. THAT would explain why it would wither and wilt if cut off.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The TSA is trying to save the space ships, not destroy them. Nuking a multibillion dollar spaceship isn't exactly cost-effective, nor is using other forms of high explosives.
I'm thinking stuff like, OCs on the ceiling, or DCs on every wall of a hallway to block the way completely untill they got destroyed or the creep died off and they'd fall off and die.
Hm... a random thought crossed my head. Would a Gorge be able to build chambers anywhere on the infestation?
I'm thinking stuff like, OCs on the ceiling, or DCs on every wall of a hallway to block the way completely untill they got destroyed or the creep died off and they'd fall off and die.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sure he would be able to build on the infestation, idk about ceilings though. But we will have to see <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
Im sure he would be able to build on the infestation, idk about ceilings though. But we will have to see <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, of course, but currently Gorges are limited to using only the floor to build chambers. Would be neat to be able to put, say, sensory chambers up to a hidden place where the marines would be unlikely to spot it and kill it.
Of course if this were to happen you'd have to give Gorges a limited wallwalk ability while on the creep, probably...
If your open to a few opinions....
A really neat effect could be achieved by combining directional growth with radial growth. Several heads of directional growth moving outward and crossing then filling in between them would really give the visual effect of aliens taking over the area.
Consistency for high level play. Although it would add another level of play to the game at the high lvl play. It seems it's unpredictability could add an element of chance to the game... Perhaps it should always be seeded with the same input to the random function for hives and such to get a consistent output across games?
Growth speed, perhaps it should change with proximity to the source? (Dropping off farther away) It makes sense and would help balance what ever effects the creep has on marines.
What effects will it have? I think that aliens when on the ground should be able to crouch into it, moving slower but taking less damage, using it for cover basically, perhaps healing... Marines should move slower on it or take damage if they stand still on it. But they need something to help them clear it... Grenades, flamethrower, and welder are obvious options.
A hive being built could slow begin emitting slime so that by the time it is done the hive room would be nearly totally covered in the slime.
It would be really nice looking if eggs grew upward out of the slime, slowly becoming uncovered. Chambers should also be 1/2 covered in the creep. Offense chambers especially. It would help with creating "walls" and increase the usefulness of OCs.
I like how this looks and it shows great potential.
The TSA is trying to save the space ships, not destroy them. Nuking a multibillion dollar spaceship isn't exactly cost-effective, nor is using other forms of high explosives.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Point.
Alright....then how about a high-velocity projectile that would break a whole into the side of a ship, and vacuum out the bacteria?
/ontopic.exe
I look forward to this new feature flayra.
How about giving the welder in NS2 a secondary fire feature that burns away the bacterial infestation like a flame thrower?
It could be used to clear away the infestation from control panels/buttons to make them operational when marines need them.
It would also be sweet if you could instantly torch skulks if they try to sneak up on you while you are repairing a damaged RT in a dark lonely hallway.
Imagine lighting a skulk up in flames so your teamates with the big guns in-hand can spot him faster.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skulk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::skulk::" border="0" alt="skulk.gif" />
Please make flaming skulks a reality! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
get your mum or someone else/old ladie type child bareing protector of the peace to watch over your shoulder, while you play Postal 2
she will tell you out right the people running around screaming on fire as there fleash peals from there body is more gorie, than that of shoveing a riot shotgun up their nose and pulling the trigger.
*note this statment doesnt involve cat A55 silencers or being high on matrix mode cat nip at the time of said decapitation with said 12 gague
Flaming skulks doesn't HAVE to be gory, look at TFC. When you set someone on fire in TFC there is no gore. They are set on fire, and slowly lose health with no effect on the model.
fair enough TFC or 1.5 has prolly the least goryest running burning objects
I like the way the infestation shines. Great job. n__n
Cant wait to see this ingame!
I definately think the welder should be able to burn infestation away, or atleast some parts of it. Also I think it would be REALLY hard to balance if the aliens could ONLY build on the creep, so IMO; no to that.
I also really like the idea of maybe aliens making less noise walking on infestation, but when marines walk on it makes lots of slurpy, slimy noises.