Stactic defenses for NS 2
Detheron
Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58469Members
Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58469Members
<div class="IPBDescription">What are your opinions?</div>What would you like to see in NS2 as far as stactic defenses are concerned?
A) New turrets/chambers.
B) An increase in the number of turrets/chambers of the same kind allowed per area.
C) A+B
D) Less turrets of the same kind allowered per area, but they are made significantly more powerful to compensate.
E) A+D
F) NS1 was good enough for me, don't change anything!
I'd go with E. At least for aliens, who have a tougher time setting up S.D. A single offense chamber is hardly worth the investment, even in early game. You either put down 2~3 if you really want to secure that room or none at all. Any marine who can use a corner for cover between quick bursts of fire will kill it relatively unharmed.
I would be happy if you could only lay 4 or 5 of those per room, but each one would be significantly more powerful. What are your thoughts?
A) New turrets/chambers.
B) An increase in the number of turrets/chambers of the same kind allowed per area.
C) A+B
D) Less turrets of the same kind allowered per area, but they are made significantly more powerful to compensate.
E) A+D
F) NS1 was good enough for me, don't change anything!
I'd go with E. At least for aliens, who have a tougher time setting up S.D. A single offense chamber is hardly worth the investment, even in early game. You either put down 2~3 if you really want to secure that room or none at all. Any marine who can use a corner for cover between quick bursts of fire will kill it relatively unharmed.
I would be happy if you could only lay 4 or 5 of those per room, but each one would be significantly more powerful. What are your thoughts?
Comments
How about if the Hives would have a defence system of their own? I was thinking something along the lines of if the Hive gets attacked or if a Human gets too near it, a spore cloud gets puffed out, doing damage to any hostiles near it.
I think this would certainly prevent the Marines from jetpacking around the Hive like bees and shooting it with shotties and HMGs. I think this is a problem that should be adressed...
Heh, don't mean to take over the topic or anything... O_o
Perhaps you could treat them like mines, you deploy a pack, marines pick the pack up and build the wall themselves. Having the comm deploy them would bring a lot of cons, such as the ones I mentioned, or forcefully sealed vents.
Don't need more types of turrets, don't need them any stronger.
I might like to see some changes to alien stuff, but can't think of anything good myself.
You shouldn't be able to build a viable defence with just static defences. They should at best slow the aliens down so marine players have time to get there to defend. There's no need to improve them over what they are now. If anything i'd weaken them a little.
and oc's don't need to be improved/increased in numbers either. An oc wall can already easily stop any marines trying to get through untill gl'd or sieged.
Static defenses just don't have the ability to survive long enough to be used widely. Besides, marines can just shoot OC's one by one without getting shot half of the time, and skulks can circle-strafe turrets well enough during a coordinated attack to dodge fire.
aliens sure could do with some upgrades to the OC. Its slow and in-effective when your in pub play, the entire way OCs work should be radically swapped out with a new idea. OCs have always been a small thing on the alien team no one has actually really liked or been attached to.
perhpas a spike shooting thing.. spore releasing mines ... grappling chamber (sucks you in and starts digesting you)
1. turrets that could be built on walls, ceilings etc. (could reach into vents)
2. One Magnum Beam of light that could lighten darkened walls or spot cloaking aliens. (Only one per turret factory)
3. Bug shooter, that hooks onto alien so you can follow it (like radio collar)
4. Force Shield, a cheap weak bar that blocks most of a hall for a relatively short time (gives marines a chance to reload or group up.
Aliens-
1. Spore OC
2. Vermin OC
flamethrowers or nades to kill cockroach sized armor eating bugs (good creep factor!)
3. OC Growth
(fungus like plant that slowly grows and eats machinery) Drop it around corner of Turret Factory and it slowly grows and attacks a Turret Factory
4. Photoluminescent Vine. Walk over it and it attaches to Marine (like Parasite) The larger the Marine the different shade of glow. Heavies are purple etc...
but as for regarding the original post, i think 1 new type of turret/offensive chamber would make NS2 seem more like NS2 rather than just NS:BetterGraphics.
for the amount of turrets/chambers per area, leave that alone. i mean ffs, 2-3 gorgies behind 7 OC's is ridiculous to take out easily, even with GL's
OCs have always been a small thing on the alien team no one has actually really liked or been attached to.
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what the ###### are you sure?
Turrets need a revamp. I think they need to either be upgradeable or have different drop able turrets for different situations (and different times in the game)
A high rate of fire / fast response response rate turret for general use, slightly faster then current turrets and does comparable damage.
A slower, more expensive, late game type turret that shoots a larger explosive projectile with minimal splash, that causes serious damage to anything that stands still too long. This turret should also be controllable by the commander or a marine who "uses" the turret. The counter, this type of turret is to keep moving, which would help keep fights dynamic and intense. Its also useless without support
Electrification also needs a change its just too good right now, it should do reduced damage but cause a short stun + knock back effect on aliens. The damage is enough to keep skulks/lerks away and the stun effect would help defend against fades by making it slightly harder to hit and run away without making it the ultimate totally passive system.
I think offensive chambers should be built into the new dynamic infestation system, and should receive some benefits if they are built together. (IE one OC built next to another OC) such as higher armor, rate of fire, or healing) which would help keep them useful late game at slowing down jet packs and heavys. Maybe even a system where a gorge can continue to invest in offensive chambers so they don't become so utterly useless late game.
The hive emitting spores when attacked, but they should remain very close to the hive. Maybe these spores instead of doing damage could cause an effect? such as a snare? or perhaps a disorientation? slowed fire and reload times?
A large, slow ROF mounted gun, that is either placed by the comm, or deployed by say no less then 2 marines. Could even go so far as to say that it must be operated by at least 2 marines, e.g. 1 firing, 1 'feeding' the ammo in.
Would present a cool new concept of feeding ammo to the gun, i.e. having to move the mouse from side to side or click and drag an ammo belt. If the ammo man dies, the gunner can keep shooting until the belt is finished. If the gunner dies first, the ammo man can either run away, or automatically take the gunners position.
If the guns are player deployed, then you could have 'tactical squads' or 'heavy weapon support squads' designed more for defensive battlefield role rather than offence one <i>(HMG totting HA rines, shotty/jetpackers)</i>
For aliens, I like the idea of passive hive defense. Perhaps a 'tear gas' like spore cloud that keeps a close proximity to the hive, but increases in potency the more damage the hive takes. e.g. an effected players view would get blurrier and more disorientating as long as he stays within the spore area, which would also make moving out of range more difficult as any sort of moving around at all would be quite a challenge.
As for a more 'offensive passive defense' (lol), how about lashing tendrils coming off the hive itself. Damaged caused would be minimal as long as the marine moved away quickly, but staying close for too long would increase the tendril ROF. Any marine hit with a tendril would also become parasite, making them easier to pick off when the cavalry arrives.
To make things a little more interesting, Hives could be given a random passive ability upon creation.
I have heaps more ideas, but alas, they will have to wait till another day, as my wife is nagging me to 'get off that damn thing' and show her affection or something silly like that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
mothergoose.
P.s. it's good to be back guys <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> I’ll have some map screenies/concept shots for you to critique once I get a chance to upload them.
To be more exact, the marine defenses are good as they are. Dropping a few mines around base or building a couple turrets will scare off or kill most skulks, and can put a dent in larger lifeforms. The aliens don't have it so good, since the only static defense is OC which has numerous problems. To top it off, a good marine defense can be built by the com; has he controls all of the marine team's res and can spend it all on electricity, tfs, and pgs. The aliens would all have to take turns evolving into gorges and droping chambers if they wanted to secure a position, and even then the weak OC could not guard that position well, it would require a player staying close by for adiquit defense.
One main problem of OCs is that there are ways to shoot them down (the "feet") around the corner without being attacked too.
a)
I would say Gorges should receive another cheaper/smaller/weaker version for the cost of 5res. A more vertical and slim version of the 10res OC. It would have a lot lower hp/armor, few bullets, but would provide a better defense. Its spikes would deal the weaker dmg than the original OC10.
Restriction: 3 or 5 OC5s per area and should also each built OC5 should reserver the slot of the OC10s. Y'know that chamber limitation per area, think it was 10.
So one area on the map, you could like build 5 weak OC5s and 5 strong OC10s.
Balancing: The OC10 should have a lower range and should be slightly more resistant to bullets. Suitable for close combat, I would say.
The suggested OC5 should have a longer range + detection.
Additional advantage for OC5:
The Gorge should have the possibility to plant an OC5 on the ceiling. Unfortunately, I do not know how a phattey could do that in real life, but since you can build RTs from a further range, why not.
The ceiling would have similar nodes or static spots or any visible Hivesight spot to show that an OC5 can be built there.
Sorry for the big chunk suggestion - could be a bad idea hehe. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
$parki
2 choices to research,
turrets or traps.(or some sort)
research one at the start of the game,lose the other.
there are games that have simular build.
you get given a small amount of options to research (how you want to play the game) and you have to stick with the choices you make till you get your ###### handed to you,or you're the one doing the whooping.
i dunno,im just spilling my sawdust here....
x
Femme
umm.. how about none at all
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what have you got against mines?
umm.. how about none at all
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very useful post,
none at all..
erm none what..
your post could mean anything... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I think it's a given that there will be SGs and OCs in NS2.
Side note: RTs should have less HP and take less time to construct, but cost less to build.
NS had a VERY simplistic example of this where the HMG does half damage to structures and the GL can bounce around walls, making the HMG less ideal for structure killing then the GL, but better for killing skulks and what not due to being much easier to score hits on them. But this is the kind of thing that could be expanded upon significantly.
Static defenses are needed so that one guy can't walk in and setup base. I like how NS has it currently. A turret or OC will stop one enemy but if a few are they, they got easily over run. Static defenses should mainly just be either there to stop one man, or an early warning when a large attack is coming so the real fun battle can begin when you run to save it.
Static defenses should do a lot more damage but at the same time be a lot easier to kill or avoid.
Side note: RTs should have less HP and take less time to construct, but cost less to build.
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I really don't agree with this, the fact that Resource towers are so important to the game leads me to believe that making them with less hp, time to construct, and less cost of res will make it like playing a siege map. Those of you who've never played a siege map, these are maps with an abundant amount of Res towers on both sides of the map, so you can drop about 20 and have res overflow in 2 minutes. The whole game is spent wasting a bunch of res on JPs HMGs and HAs to hold off the aliens so the marines can open the siege door and siege out the alien hive, hence the name Siege map.
currently, I feel the costs in res for the towers are fine, but it would be nice for the aliens to have a bit more of a chamber pool.
All that aside, if any of you have played the HL2 Mod "Source Forts", it's basically a sandbox type of Capture the flag game where you use your gravity gun to build up defenses with panels that you can place virtually anywhere. It would be cool to implement this kind of a system with the sandbags, but instead of using the gravity gun, you could use the welder to "weld" these sandbags in place making so that you don't end up doing the same thing every map like "go to double, lock it down, weld vents, move to hive" It might allow for a bit more creativity.
I had a thought, especially with the new DI, about growth factor for the alien chambers. Instead of them just appearing and being built, it be nice to see the sprout from DI like a plant. When first dropped they'd be small and not very effective but the longer they stayed alive the stronger they got until they were very large and lethal. This would increase their damage, healing, range, and so on.
It would be interesting if the chamber grew quicker with the more marines it killed and aliens that died near it, the corpses feeding it nutrients it needed to grow; could also maybe allow gorges to drop extra res/nutrients into it to quicken it's growth. This could compliment the idea of dragging marine/alien corpses. An OC that has been implanted the whole map and has been fed a lot of corpses would be hard for a single marine to do any real damage to, and would be a good battle for two or three marines.
I believe this idea could really mix up game play because a hive that has been around the whole game should be well established. The chambers would be extremely potent and hard to remove. Now a brand new hive wouldn't of established itself as well in the base. The chambers would still be sprouting and growing, demanding more nutrients. This would also give marines an incentive to not let aliens infest a place to long, especially crucial areas such as dbl res nodes and choke points.
Visually this could be very neat. You could have the roots/veins of the chambers pulsate and show through the DI like veins on the human skin, and as they grew bigger the roots expanded out and got larger. This would also help explain their sphere of influence. Where ever the Roots are is where the healing starts and so on.
Just a few thoughts I think could compliment NS2 very much with some tweaking to the design. The growth rate of the chambers would be a key factor in balancing the chambers. You'd want it to take most the game time for a chamber, such as an OC, to grow into max strength, unless fed with a constant stream of corpses.
Quick example of growing chamber.
OC - Starts out a very small thorny tree like structure. About the size of two gorges stacked on top of one another. Slowly grows bigger with branch like structures growing and protruding from its side. This continues until it's full grown. Once full grown it's the size of a small tree, about the height of a fade. It is extremely dangerous and able to attack multiple targets at this point.
The major disadvantage to this is no more lame spamming marine defenses, but maybe there can be a way to still allow this if gorges can dump res into the structures to speed up growth.