Personally I've always enjoyed the building aspect of NS more than the FPS aspect. I've always wished there were more options and variety in what each side could build (Aliens especially). There's already been a few suggestion listed above from people on different types of turrets and chambers, but the possibilities are endless really. I would definitely be in favor of them adding more in NS:2.
If you must have static defenses, I'd like to see something that auguments the players in the area, instead of the players reinforcing defenses. Something similar to a SC - aliens within a certain radius are cloaked, marines show up on hive sight, etc. A structure that provides nearby allies with augumented abilities - more speed, less damage taken, faster firing rate, increased visibility (Like MT/Scan/SoF), etc. An interesting idea would be to separate area-effects and upgrades provided from alien chambers. Each alien upgrade path (Assuming we keep that in) would have one chamber to provide upgrades, and another to provide area-effects. To compensate, you'd make both of them cheaper.
i'd like to see static defences become wildly different for each team. I think the Kharaa should not have projectile defences, but instead rely on organic defences that are more passive in their effects.
Examples: -acid baloons in the infestation that explode on contact -stickey, sludgey areas that slow movement speed -webs that restore themselves after being broken, or even dynamically grow in the infestation after a certain number of hives has been reached -sensor zones that flash areas on the kharaa's minimap when marines are nearby. (all infestation?) -infestation attacking marines that move too slowly or not at all, and attacking marine structures built on/near it
basically stuff that gives the kharaa a better awareness & mastery of the areas of the battlefield they control and fits into the "hive mind" scenario.
For marines i'd like to see: -cheapish, reasonably effective turrets that can be placed like a mine on any surface. say the comm drops a "turret factory" which has 4-odd of these on it when built that the marines can pick up and place anywhere in the map. you could then "use" the turret factory to cycle through the different camera feeds from the turrets. Problem is once all those turrets are dead the TF becomes useless and if the TF is dead all the turrets become useless. A hard limit on the number of turret factories (to avoid flooding the wireless frequency the turrets transmit over) could prevent farming. -expensive, very effective turrets that have to be built in the current manner, have a 360 degree sensor area, but a slow tracking speed outside its 90 degree view cone, so its great for blocking off a hallway, but if something gets around it its screwed.
wow much longer and more specific than i wanted it to be, but there it is <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1593814:date=Jan 1 2007, 02:29 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jan 1 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]1593814[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> what have you got against mines? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you already know what my stand on static defense is, i dont need to repeat myself
I like static defenses, but only because it adds to the RTS feel of the game for me rather than straight player versus player. It also alters the map in a way that the enemy has to choose another route or place some resources into clearing the way to the original route, and as such creates a kind of dynamic flow to the movement within the game. An OC wall turning around a squad of marines and forcing them into another direction unless they have grenade launchers sounds fine to me.
I like some of Kaine's ideas. Acid baloons that explode when shot, and only hurt marines, would be a great addition. They would do a lot against early hive rushes.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
static defenses are fine, also consider if they actually use the hl2 engine for physics , you'll be able to weld random items, such as tables and crates together or even to walls to provide cover or temp barricades.
aliens could use slime to stick items together and force marines to take a certain path or even create a trap.
that, in combination with the current static defenses would be very interesting to see what people can come up with strategy wise <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
IMHO just because HL2 engine makes it easy to make some physic objects stick together I don't think it's a path that NS should take. It would change the gameplay too much and you would end up in games were all kids/bored people/annoying types just spend their time ruining the game for the rest of the players by blocking nearly all hallways/vents/exits.
Keep the action where it is, don't make NS2 into a new Garry's Mod please <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'd like to see old and new defense systems. Sentrys are doing pretty good and shouldn't be removed. Same for OCs. But there's a problem you have to face if you invent new turrets. They can't do more damadge but have a lower firerate because people will start whining about it.
Good Alien players can easily hop through a turretfarm, standard players don't. So you have to find a good working balance for that. Same with OCs. Good players only run through them without getting killed.
Now if you want a sentry with less damadge but with a higher firerate it's pretty much the same problem.
I'd personaly go for A+D because the purchase of turrets and OCs would be profitable <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Im against mines as well. aliens have no such static defense. OC's are easier to destroy than sentry turrets too. If anything I would get rid of mines, (which i know wont happen), or get some type of mine for aliens. perhaps like a gorge wad of some sort that either explodes very harmful acid kiling a marine in a certain position, or shoot very thick spores which do around 15dmg per second. So at least while a gorge is building he doesnt get overrun by a single marine, which is an issue that could be helped if the gorge has an oppurtunity to setup a small static defense. Also this gorge wad I speak of should cost maybe 1 resource for 2 wads and should not be explodable/shootable by a marines gun, perhaps only a grenade launcher or grenade can destroy it. But something to give a gorge a chance to live in the 1st 2 minutes of the game.
Instead of aliens dropping explosive stuff, the gorge drops some sort of static goo-egg it vomits out like a bile-bomb. It stays put where it lands (sticky bomb) until a marine comes nearby and it poofs out with web/slimy goo that works somewhat the same as the web currently works. Marines should be able to shoot it from a distance so it poofs out of harms range. So it's up to the gorge to place it somewhere the marines wont see it. For example above a door like the classic bucket full of water trick <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1593723:date=Jan 1 2007, 07:49 AM:name=MotherGoose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MotherGoose @ Jan 1 2007, 07:49 AM) [snapback]1593723[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> For marines, I’d like to see <i>manned</i> static defenses. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Definitely. Should require a couple of upgrades, cost a lot of res and take a fair amount of time to build, but also be very powerful. I Like the idea about having to use two marines for it as well. Built by the com AND have to be operated by two marines. Turns defense into something player driven. Plus, it would be the perfect thing for guarding a hive, too.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--quoteo(post=1594100:date=Jan 2 2007, 12:39 PM:name=Rasulis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rasulis @ Jan 2 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]1594100[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think a change in static defenses would be welcomed in my opinion. I think the aliens need them reworked more then the marines.
I had a thought, especially with the new DI, about growth factor for the alien chambers. Instead of them just appearing and being built, it be nice to see the sprout from DI like a plant. When first dropped they'd be small and not very effective but the longer they stayed alive the stronger they got until they were very large and lethal. This would increase their damage, healing, range, and so on.
It would be interesting if the chamber grew quicker with the more marines it killed and aliens that died near it, the corpses feeding it nutrients it needed to grow; could also maybe allow gorges to drop extra res/nutrients into it to quicken it's growth. This could compliment the idea of dragging marine/alien corpses. An OC that has been implanted the whole map and has been fed a lot of corpses would be hard for a single marine to do any real damage to, and would be a good battle for two or three marines.
I believe this idea could really mix up game play because a hive that has been around the whole game should be well established. The chambers would be extremely potent and hard to remove. Now a brand new hive wouldn't of established itself as well in the base. The chambers would still be sprouting and growing, demanding more nutrients. This would also give marines an incentive to not let aliens infest a place to long, especially crucial areas such as dbl res nodes and choke points.
Visually this could be very neat. You could have the roots/veins of the chambers pulsate and show through the DI like veins on the human skin, and as they grew bigger the roots expanded out and got larger. This would also help explain their sphere of influence. Where ever the Roots are is where the healing starts and so on.
Just a few thoughts I think could compliment NS2 very much with some tweaking to the design. The growth rate of the chambers would be a key factor in balancing the chambers. You'd want it to take most the game time for a chamber, such as an OC, to grow into max strength, unless fed with a constant stream of corpses.
Quick example of growing chamber. OC - Starts out a very small thorny tree like structure. About the size of two gorges stacked on top of one another. Slowly grows bigger with branch like structures growing and protruding from its side. This continues until it's full grown. Once full grown it's the size of a small tree, about the height of a fade. It is extremely dangerous and able to attack multiple targets at this point.
The major disadvantage to this is no more lame spamming marine defenses, but maybe there can be a way to still allow this if gorges can dump res into the structures to speed up growth. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is bloody brilliant, however I think OCs should start out as small pods that a gorge just spits up. If several OCs were placed near enough, they could combine and become a multi-branched OC, however it would grow slower.
Also, maybe late into the game, they could evolve acid rockets, with a lower ROF for balance. That way, rewarding you for being able to keep that OC alive for so long, (Besides just the bigger and better thing).
Maybe the chambers around it could even effect its growth. If its close to a movement chamber it might shoot faster, if its close to a defense chamber it could be harder to kill, if its close to a sensory chamber it could do more damage. However it could only pick up one of these effects from the first chamber dropped (if the OC is dropped first) or just the closest one physically (As long as they are within a certain area). Heck, if its next to a res tower maybe it could even heal itself faster?
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--quoteo(post=1594321:date=Jan 3 2007, 01:23 AM:name=Kaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaine @ Jan 3 2007, 01:23 AM) [snapback]1594321[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i'd like to see static defences become wildly different for each team. I think the Kharaa should not have projectile defences, but instead rely on organic defences that are more passive in their effects.
Examples: -acid baloons in the infestation that explode on contact -stickey, sludgey areas that slow movement speed -webs that restore themselves after being broken, or even dynamically grow in the infestation after a certain number of hives has been reached -sensor zones that flash areas on the kharaa's minimap when marines are nearby. (all infestation?) -infestation attacking marines that move too slowly or not at all, and attacking marine structures built on/near it
basically stuff that gives the kharaa a better awareness & mastery of the areas of the battlefield they control and fits into the "hive mind" scenario.
For marines i'd like to see: -cheapish, reasonably effective turrets that can be placed like a mine on any surface. say the comm drops a "turret factory" which has 4-odd of these on it when built that the marines can pick up and place anywhere in the map. you could then "use" the turret factory to cycle through the different camera feeds from the turrets. Problem is once all those turrets are dead the TF becomes useless and if the TF is dead all the turrets become useless. A hard limit on the number of turret factories (to avoid flooding the wireless frequency the turrets transmit over) could prevent farming. -expensive, very effective turrets that have to be built in the current manner, have a 360 degree sensor area, but a slow tracking speed outside its 90 degree view cone, so its great for blocking off a hallway, but if something gets around it its screwed.
wow much longer and more specific than i wanted it to be, but there it is <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I like the acid balloons idea, like gorge mines, as well as the sticky sludgey stuff, which could be destroyed by a welder or grenade (or fire), but could go on any surface and would be rather clear.
The infestation as an early warning sounds pretty good, as well as slowing structure build rates, but maybe it could be cleared with fire or something?
Also, some sort of vine plant that a gorge could shoot onto a ceiling or a wall (the seedling), which would then grow into a plant that when walked by, would grab a marine, disabling him (can't even shoot because of the tentacles), and then slowly killing him (squeezed to death). Which would reinforce the need to stay in teams, so that your friends can help you out. It would also be useful against Jet Packers, as they are a pain for most people to kill.
However, with the turret factory, I think you should have those turrets having to be localised with upgrades granting a few more, or more powerful turrets. And you have marines pick up the turrets and plop them around the area, allowing for turrets to go someplaces a commander can't get to.
Maybe add penetrator turrets, like say a railgun, however they only shoot in 120 degree arcs in front of them (recoil bracing), and shoot rather slowly. They'd be advanced (Upgraded Armory, Arm Labs (weapons 2+?), maybe even a Prototype Lab as prerequisites?) so they wouldn't be too early.
<b>So to summarize:</b> - Gorge Mines: Acid Balloons; maybe even some sort of stick sludge to slow Marines down - Infestation acts as early alert; slows building - Vine trap thing: Grabs a marine and paralyzes them, crushing them to death. Reinforce squads usage. - Turret Factory: Creates a few turrets that are picked up by marines and placed, more with upgrades. - Penetrator turrets: Advanced Railgun turrets with 120 degree fire arc; anti-onos
<!--QuoteBegin-Sheepe+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sheepe)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So to summarize: - Gorge Mines: Acid Balloons; maybe even some sort of stick sludge to slow Marines down<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
The first one for the gestate into whatever and upgrade yourself, while the build menu would deal with OCs, Hive and other structures.
$parkeh
Examples:
-acid baloons in the infestation that explode on contact
-stickey, sludgey areas that slow movement speed
-webs that restore themselves after being broken, or even dynamically grow in the infestation after a certain number of hives has been reached
-sensor zones that flash areas on the kharaa's minimap when marines are nearby. (all infestation?)
-infestation attacking marines that move too slowly or not at all, and attacking marine structures built on/near it
basically stuff that gives the kharaa a better awareness & mastery of the areas of the battlefield they control and fits into the "hive mind" scenario.
For marines i'd like to see:
-cheapish, reasonably effective turrets that can be placed like a mine on any surface. say the comm drops a "turret factory" which has 4-odd of these on it when built that the marines can pick up and place anywhere in the map. you could then "use" the turret factory to cycle through the different camera feeds from the turrets. Problem is once all those turrets are dead the TF becomes useless and if the TF is dead all the turrets become useless. A hard limit on the number of turret factories (to avoid flooding the wireless frequency the turrets transmit over) could prevent farming.
-expensive, very effective turrets that have to be built in the current manner, have a 360 degree sensor area, but a slow tracking speed outside its 90 degree view cone, so its great for blocking off a hallway, but if something gets around it its screwed.
wow much longer and more specific than i wanted it to be, but there it is <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
what have you got against mines?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you already know what my stand on static defense is, i dont need to repeat myself
aliens could use slime to stick items together and force marines to take a certain path or even create a trap.
that, in combination with the current static defenses would be very interesting to see what people can come up with strategy wise <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Keep the action where it is, don't make NS2 into a new Garry's Mod please <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Good Alien players can easily hop through a turretfarm, standard players don't. So you have to find a good working balance for that. Same with OCs. Good players only run through them without getting killed.
Now if you want a sentry with less damadge but with a higher firerate it's pretty much the same problem.
I'd personaly go for A+D because the purchase of turrets and OCs would be profitable <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Instead of aliens dropping explosive stuff, the gorge drops some sort of static goo-egg it vomits out like a bile-bomb. It stays put where it lands (sticky bomb) until a marine comes nearby and it poofs out with web/slimy goo that works somewhat the same as the web currently works. Marines should be able to shoot it from a distance so it poofs out of harms range.
So it's up to the gorge to place it somewhere the marines wont see it. For example above a door like the classic bucket full of water trick <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
For marines, I’d like to see <i>manned</i> static defenses. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Definitely. Should require a couple of upgrades, cost a lot of res and take a fair amount of time to build, but also be very powerful.
I Like the idea about having to use two marines for it as well. Built by the com AND have to be operated by two marines.
Turns defense into something player driven. Plus, it would be the perfect thing for guarding a hive, too.
I think a change in static defenses would be welcomed in my opinion. I think the aliens need them reworked more then the marines.
I had a thought, especially with the new DI, about growth factor for the alien chambers. Instead of them just appearing and being built, it be nice to see the sprout from DI like a plant. When first dropped they'd be small and not very effective but the longer they stayed alive the stronger they got until they were very large and lethal. This would increase their damage, healing, range, and so on.
It would be interesting if the chamber grew quicker with the more marines it killed and aliens that died near it, the corpses feeding it nutrients it needed to grow; could also maybe allow gorges to drop extra res/nutrients into it to quicken it's growth. This could compliment the idea of dragging marine/alien corpses. An OC that has been implanted the whole map and has been fed a lot of corpses would be hard for a single marine to do any real damage to, and would be a good battle for two or three marines.
I believe this idea could really mix up game play because a hive that has been around the whole game should be well established. The chambers would be extremely potent and hard to remove. Now a brand new hive wouldn't of established itself as well in the base. The chambers would still be sprouting and growing, demanding more nutrients. This would also give marines an incentive to not let aliens infest a place to long, especially crucial areas such as dbl res nodes and choke points.
Visually this could be very neat. You could have the roots/veins of the chambers pulsate and show through the DI like veins on the human skin, and as they grew bigger the roots expanded out and got larger. This would also help explain their sphere of influence. Where ever the Roots are is where the healing starts and so on.
Just a few thoughts I think could compliment NS2 very much with some tweaking to the design. The growth rate of the chambers would be a key factor in balancing the chambers. You'd want it to take most the game time for a chamber, such as an OC, to grow into max strength, unless fed with a constant stream of corpses.
Quick example of growing chamber.
OC - Starts out a very small thorny tree like structure. About the size of two gorges stacked on top of one another. Slowly grows bigger with branch like structures growing and protruding from its side. This continues until it's full grown. Once full grown it's the size of a small tree, about the height of a fade. It is extremely dangerous and able to attack multiple targets at this point.
The major disadvantage to this is no more lame spamming marine defenses, but maybe there can be a way to still allow this if gorges can dump res into the structures to speed up growth.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is bloody brilliant, however I think OCs should start out as small pods that a gorge just spits up. If several OCs were placed near enough, they could combine and become a multi-branched OC, however it would grow slower.
Also, maybe late into the game, they could evolve acid rockets, with a lower ROF for balance. That way, rewarding you for being able to keep that OC alive for so long, (Besides just the bigger and better thing).
Maybe the chambers around it could even effect its growth. If its close to a movement chamber it might shoot faster, if its close to a defense chamber it could be harder to kill, if its close to a sensory chamber it could do more damage. However it could only pick up one of these effects from the first chamber dropped (if the OC is dropped first) or just the closest one physically (As long as they are within a certain area). Heck, if its next to a res tower maybe it could even heal itself faster?
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--quoteo(post=1594321:date=Jan 3 2007, 01:23 AM:name=Kaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaine @ Jan 3 2007, 01:23 AM) [snapback]1594321[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
i'd like to see static defences become wildly different for each team. I think the Kharaa should not have projectile defences, but instead rely on organic defences that are more passive in their effects.
Examples:
-acid baloons in the infestation that explode on contact
-stickey, sludgey areas that slow movement speed
-webs that restore themselves after being broken, or even dynamically grow in the infestation after a certain number of hives has been reached
-sensor zones that flash areas on the kharaa's minimap when marines are nearby. (all infestation?)
-infestation attacking marines that move too slowly or not at all, and attacking marine structures built on/near it
basically stuff that gives the kharaa a better awareness & mastery of the areas of the battlefield they control and fits into the "hive mind" scenario.
For marines i'd like to see:
-cheapish, reasonably effective turrets that can be placed like a mine on any surface. say the comm drops a "turret factory" which has 4-odd of these on it when built that the marines can pick up and place anywhere in the map. you could then "use" the turret factory to cycle through the different camera feeds from the turrets. Problem is once all those turrets are dead the TF becomes useless and if the TF is dead all the turrets become useless. A hard limit on the number of turret factories (to avoid flooding the wireless frequency the turrets transmit over) could prevent farming.
-expensive, very effective turrets that have to be built in the current manner, have a 360 degree sensor area, but a slow tracking speed outside its 90 degree view cone, so its great for blocking off a hallway, but if something gets around it its screwed.
wow much longer and more specific than i wanted it to be, but there it is <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I like the acid balloons idea, like gorge mines, as well as the sticky sludgey stuff, which could be destroyed by a welder or grenade (or fire), but could go on any surface and would be rather clear.
The infestation as an early warning sounds pretty good, as well as slowing structure build rates, but maybe it could be cleared with fire or something?
Also, some sort of vine plant that a gorge could shoot onto a ceiling or a wall (the seedling), which would then grow into a plant that when walked by, would grab a marine, disabling him (can't even shoot because of the tentacles), and then slowly killing him (squeezed to death). Which would reinforce the need to stay in teams, so that your friends can help you out. It would also be useful against Jet Packers, as they are a pain for most people to kill.
However, with the turret factory, I think you should have those turrets having to be localised with upgrades granting a few more, or more powerful turrets. And you have marines pick up the turrets and plop them around the area, allowing for turrets to go someplaces a commander can't get to.
Maybe add penetrator turrets, like say a railgun, however they only shoot in 120 degree arcs in front of them (recoil bracing), and shoot rather slowly. They'd be advanced (Upgraded Armory, Arm Labs (weapons 2+?), maybe even a Prototype Lab as prerequisites?) so they wouldn't be too early.
<b>So to summarize:</b>
- Gorge Mines: Acid Balloons; maybe even some sort of stick sludge to slow Marines down
- Infestation acts as early alert; slows building
- Vine trap thing: Grabs a marine and paralyzes them, crushing them to death. Reinforce squads usage.
- Turret Factory: Creates a few turrets that are picked up by marines and placed, more with upgrades.
- Penetrator turrets: Advanced Railgun turrets with 120 degree fire arc; anti-onos
-Sheepe
- Gorge Mines: Acid Balloons; maybe even some sort of stick sludge to slow Marines down<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh...Gorgies have webs ?
eh...Gorgies have webs ?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<_< >_> >_<
Yeah, spaced about that one...
-Sheepe