<!--quoteo(post=1590088:date=Dec 19 2006, 07:59 AM:name=Electrical_Tape)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Electrical_Tape @ Dec 19 2006, 07:59 AM) [snapback]1590088[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love Xmenu. I also love /buildmenu. Im not sure why so many people dislike buildmenu.... Xmenu and buildmenu combined is absolutely awesome, too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because some of us aren't completely retarded yet! All those plugins should burn in hell... "§$"%&§&
There are a few server running without extra levels/xmenu but it seems no one realy cares to play on them... I also got a 3.1 (atm...) server without any of these plugins, but mostly no one is playing on it... I can't help it...
Edit: Electrical_Tape Have you ever playe NS-Classic? There are buildings too!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" /> Besides... co_maps are too small for mass structures... it just messes up everything
<!--quoteo(post=1590117:date=Dec 19 2006, 09:17 AM:name=Electrical_Tape)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Electrical_Tape @ Dec 19 2006, 09:17 AM) [snapback]1590117[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> But balance is boring. If I wanted to play a balanced game... I could play Pong. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1590117:date=Dec 19 2006, 03:17 AM:name=Electrical_Tape)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Electrical_Tape @ Dec 19 2006, 03:17 AM) [snapback]1590117[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 1: They dont belong in combat... according to you. To me, and I suspect at least a couple others, structures do belong in combat, simply because we want them there for various reasons. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hell? CO maps are not meant for structures and everyone knows that flying into a hive and instantly dying due to 90 OC's, because 2 gorges latejoined and got 10 levels and can instantly rebuild them because they get points back, is REAL FUN! Honestly, if you want to kill structures, go play classic.
99% of the reason people play Combat is to get away of the retardedness of pub classic servers--bad commanders that won't drop meds/ammo because they don't like you, faster paced games that (ideally) end quicker, and not having to deal with repetitive tedious and boring tasks of killing/building structures.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But balance is boring. If I wanted to play a balanced game... I could play Pong. I like chaos. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-psypop.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> This sums this statement up.
I'm surprised a lot of people dislike xmenu. I'm not defending xmenu in any kind of way, It's just I like to have something new in the long time I have played CO without any extra levels and or plugins. Hence I use xmenu myself for something new, something extra to add more fun to the server. If the plugin itself is not-balanced, I simply suggest you to change it yourself, as I will later on to make it more fun / balanced for everyone so they stay happy.
And just because people are bad at being commander doesn't mean they are retarded. Some people are just new, and want to experience in being a commander and develop the skills in it as well. Even though I do have to agree that they screw up the whole game if they mess up, and I do also realize there are people who do it on purpose. But you can't blame someone for being new, since once you were new as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1590099:date=Dec 19 2006, 02:38 AM:name=TheGuy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheGuy @ Dec 19 2006, 02:38 AM) [snapback]1590099[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The problem with xmenu is consistency. Each server has their own values and you're pretty much not playing anything close to the same game. If you say it's so balanced, then why bother making it easy for people to change the values? If it's balanced then you shouldn't need to. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The beauty of this mod is there are multiple methods of achieving the same means, meaning there are several different ways to config this and keep it balanced. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Buildmenu is an abomination upon the lord that is causing the universe to unravel and all heretics who follow the terribleness that is buildmenu shall perish in hell.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->+1
Try to destroy the command console surrounded by 20 electric turrets factorys with an onos... dead onos.
i know we all like to get level 5 cybernetics and level 5 uranium ammo and just bunnyhop around the map turning everything visible into a smoking pile of kharaa goo, but... yeah. seriously. xmenu is retarded, plain and simple. the same kids that love it are the ones that lack the attention span to play a game of soccer, instead they start carrying the ball in their hand or something else equally stupid.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The beauty of this mod is there are multiple methods of achieving the same means, meaning there are several different ways to config this and keep it balanced. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> no the beauty is that once installed on the server, it will mess up every single round of combat. you can tweak the configs and values for all you care but they wont change anything.
1) Marines start off stonger than aliens and have more kills.
2) 1 or 2 players on the aliens lead the kills by huge margin of the players under them. If said 1 or 2 players is missing from the game aliens lose.
3) Said players under them get free levels of noob experiance from the free exp plug-in. New joining players on aliens given 6 free levels to instantly go redemption onos or xeno skulk.
4) Every alien is now eather a unkillable fade, a walker fade that gets 1-2 kills and dies, a onos or fade with redemption, a web gorge or a xeno skulk.
5) Marines get stuck in base earning very little experiance becuase the only skulks left have xeno and the bad lifeforms have redemption.
6) Game is prolonged for 20 mins becuase of agonizing long spawn protection.
I really dont understand why people find games like these fun but they happen most of the time I play on a server with extra levels, /xmenu, and free exp.
I hate extralevels and all that xmenu madness. The only nice pinged server I know of without such retarded plugins is Wireplay, Melting Pot.
I too remember the time when I could easily find 30+ absolutely STACKED vanilla co servers. Siegemaps became popular, then xtraleves became popular... and now we are left with barely any extralevels servers left and even less vanilla co servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1590250:date=Dec 19 2006, 05:50 PM:name=LazyEye)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LazyEye @ Dec 19 2006, 05:50 PM) [snapback]1590250[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A typical game on a /xmenu extra levels server:
1) Marines start off stonger than aliens and have more kills.
2) 1 or 2 players on the aliens lead the kills by huge margin of the players under them. If said 1 or 2 players is missing from the game aliens lose.
3) Said players under them get free levels of noob experiance from the free exp plug-in. New joining players on aliens given 6 free levels to instantly go redemption onos or xeno skulk.
4) Every alien is now eather a unkillable fade, a walker fade that gets 1-2 kills and dies, a onos or fade with redemption, a web gorge or a xeno skulk.
5) Marines get stuck in base earning very little experiance becuase the only skulks left have xeno and the bad lifeforms have redemption.
6) Game is prolonged for 20 mins becuase of agonizing long spawn protection.
I really dont understand why people find games like these fun but they happen most of the time I play on a server with extra levels, /xmenu, and free exp. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Faskalia joins the server. Faskalia makes the first kill.
[deep hollow voice] FIRST BLOOOOOOD!!!![/deep hollow voice]
Faskalia is now level 5 and the rest of the server still level one. Faskalia goes onos. Faskalia kills a few more rines and start attacking the cc. 1:30 half of the rine team either left the server, is waiting in the ready room and/or are shouting/writing abuse. 1:45 Game over, aliens won, everyone hates me.
Next round starts and everyone is trying to stack my team or is calling me a hacker/cheater/######. But the round just goes as normal as a xmenu round can get, because the stupid firstblood plugin only awards firstblood and the xp bonus, for the first kill after a mapchange.
Combat is inherently unbalanced. For 4 points, an alien can go Onos. For 4 points, a marine can go LMG/JP, or HMG + 1 other upgrade. Everytime I point this out on a server, there's invariably something who goes "marienz just ned 2 use taemwork lolz", as though teamwork is some magical quality that only marines can hope to achieve. The only reason there is a semblance of balance on combat servers is because almost all the players are terrible. Under vanilla combat, a terrible player who went onos would get killed fairly easily if marines had a few JPers. On an xmenu server, a terrible player who went onos can simply plow through several marines with his celerity-adrenaline-silence-carapace-regen-redempt-cloak-sof-focus-stomp-infinite charge-hunger onos, then return at his hive, heal up in a few seconds, and repeat it all over again.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The beauty of this mod is there are multiple methods of achieving the same means, meaning there are several different ways to config this and keep it balanced. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is not balance. That is the Marvel vs. Capcom school of game design; making a convulted game with multiple broken things, so when people finally realize it's not balanced, nobody plays it anymore.
<!--quoteo(post=1590306:date=Dec 19 2006, 09:22 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Dec 19 2006, 09:22 PM) [snapback]1590306[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Combat is inherently unbalanced. For 4 points, an alien can go Onos. For 4 points, a marine can go LMG/JP, <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the JP is the Onos counter so why shouldn't they cost the same?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->because some of us aren't completely retarded yet!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because someone likes something that you do not, does not mean they are retarded. Its all a matter of what people find fun.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: Electrical_Tape Have you ever playe NS-Classic? There are buildings too!! Besides... co_maps are too small for mass structures... it just messes up everything<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I began playing NS in 1.03. I pretty much switched to CO once it came out, whenever that was. Sometime after 2.0 I guess. I didnt care much for post 1.04 classic NS, and still dont.
CO maps are to small for structures, again, according to you. Its a matter of personal preferance. Not quite sure why so many people feel the need to state their own personal opinians as if they were cold hard facts that are absolute. They are not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The hell? CO maps are not meant for structures and everyone knows that flying into a hive and instantly dying due to 90 OC's, because 2 gorges latejoined and got 10 levels and can instantly rebuild them because they get points back, is REAL FUN! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/shrug. I think its fun, and funny, when I do that as a marine. It just presents itself as a challenge to overcome, and yes, it can be overcome.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This sums this statement up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, that was pretty funny =p Im not sure why you said it, but it was funny regardless
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Combat is inherently unbalanced. For 4 points, an alien can go Onos. For 4 points, a marine can go LMG/JP, or HMG + 1 other upgrade. Everytime I point this out on a server, there's invariably something who goes "marienz just ned 2 use taemwork lolz", as though teamwork is some magical quality that only marines can hope to achieve<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An un-upgraded onos vs a marine with an HMG is toast unless the onos is right on top of the marine.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Under vanilla combat, a terrible player who went onos would get killed fairly easily if marines had a few JPers. On an xmenu server, a terrible player who went onos can simply plow through several marines with his celerity-adrenaline-silence-carapace-regen-redempt-cloak-sof-focus-stomp-infinite charge-hunger onos, then return at his hive, heal up in a few seconds, and repeat it all over again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is that terrible player on an Xmenu server going to magically get 21 (more less depending on server settings) points for all those upgrades? Aliens dont start with 21 points, they have to earn them with kills like everyone else. I can only speak from my own personal experiences, but usually by the time any alien had 21 points, I would have a comparable amount myself and be able to counter that player fairly effectively, if by no other way than to send that onos back to its hive over and over and over again.
A great method of killing these onos is to have one marine send it back to the hive, and another marine laying in wait for the redeaming onos, killing it swiftly the second it pops back. Or even have a single marine force the onos to redeam, and then chasing it himself. Ive done that alot. Onos are not invulerable.
<!--quoteo(post=1590194:date=Dec 19 2006, 03:09 PM:name=FFSkyrider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FFSkyrider @ Dec 19 2006, 03:09 PM) [snapback]1590194[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> But all in the end, It's the decision of the Server Admin. You can't do anything about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's true. But that's also part of the problem. It gives way too much control to individuals(admins) who all think differently, over a bunch of game-altering variables. Resulting in a inevitable big mess for all those helpless players.
Imo things like xmenu is more fun for <i>admins</i>. Editing those .cfg is fun isnt it? Having control on stuff. It's almost like playing dungeon keeper! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I play at 187Combat and I love xmenu and buildmenu. Why? Because it's more fun, and it also adds more depth then an otherwise horribly boring and lethargic regular Combat. And for those who are saying xmenu and buildmenu are unbalanced, well I have nothing to say then try playing a game as a marine on a NON-MODDED combat map, and having the entire Alien team be Onos, because BEFORE I started playing xmenu and custom Combat servers that was ALL I ever saw on Combat servers, of course there were Onos limiters (oh my another plugin that changes Combat so drastically, fascinating that it isn't be hated on too) but those were a dime a dozen.
In defense of xmenu, buildmenu, Onos limit, and extralevels I say this; they add more depth to the game, they are more balanced (a UA 4 Marine is still going to die to a good Fade, and more often then not that Marine only has tier 2 armor also see Onos limit) and are far more fun in general then any regular Combat server I have ever played. All in my humble opinion.
Oh and for that guy who said that they ban marines on 187Combat with a ratio greater than 1:1 that is not simply not true. And if you were banned because of that then it was either a mistake (which you can and should have taken up a complaint at their forums) or you were using an aimbot.
Now I am a combat junkie, however he fun part is that I saying that all combat players are horrible at NS or scream about xmenu not being in a NS only server is simply a uncalled for and a general dumping of players of Natural Selection. Now excuse me while I go play on my favorite custom combat server, and my favorite NS server.
<!--quoteo(post=1590455:date=Dec 19 2006, 10:13 PM:name=Electrical_Tape)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Electrical_Tape @ Dec 19 2006, 10:13 PM) [snapback]1590455[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> An un-upgraded onos vs a marine with an HMG is toast unless the onos is right on top of the marine. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please, an upgraded onos can easily kill a marine with a HMG, even if it does have to transverse a significant distance, such as from middle ground on co_faceoff, and that is a best case scenario for the marine. Even if the onos can't just run up and gore the marine, he still has the advantage simply because he can hide behind a corner/doorway/whatever, and the marine cannot advance past him. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> How is that terrible player on an Xmenu server going to magically get 21 (more less depending on server settings) points for all those upgrades? Aliens dont start with 21 points, they have to earn them with kills like everyone else. I can only speak from my own personal experiences, but usually by the time any alien had 21 points, I would have a comparable amount myself and be able to counter that player fairly effectively, if by no other way than to send that onos back to its hive over and over and over again. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Latejoin. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A great method of killing these onos is to have one marine send it back to the hive, and another marine laying in wait for the redeaming onos, killing it swiftly the second it pops back. Or even have a single marine force the onos to redeam, and then chasing it himself. Ive done that alot. Onos are not invulerable. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeeeah, I'll just camp the alien hive alone, against a team of 12 aliens who get spawn protection, will I?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Clearly Flayra and the dev team are wrong for not putting alien chambers, turrets, phase gates, gorge bombs, +hook gorge, extra levels, and xmenu in combat for 3.2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never made any insinuation that the dev team was wrong for the way they made the game. Nor did I say that CO as a whole should be limited to Xmenu and buildmenu. I simply stated my preferance for those mods over normal CO. Why the hostility over a gameplay preferance?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please, an upgraded onos can easily kill a marine with a HMG, even if it does have to transverse a significant distance, such as from middle ground on co_faceoff, and that is a best case scenario for the marine. Even if the onos can't just run up and gore the marine, he still has the advantage simply because he can hide behind a corner/doorway/whatever, and the marine cannot advance past him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said UN-upgraded. Un-upgraded onos are slow, vulerable in the open, and easy to down with an HMG.
If the game has gone so long as to have newly joining players being given 21 points, than most everyone else is going to have more than that, and be able to counter the onos easily.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeeeah, I'll just camp the alien hive alone, against a team of 12 aliens who get spawn protection, will I?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, why not? On some maps its harder than others, but on those you can just chase the onos down most of the time if you have a JP. If you cant chase it down for whatever reason, think of a different way. Use some tactics, be creative, or at least crafty. Plus, the entire alien team is not going to be sitting in the hive room.
Really, its not as hard as everyone is implying it is.
<!--quoteo(post=1590758:date=Dec 20 2006, 10:47 PM:name=milosis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(milosis @ Dec 20 2006, 10:47 PM) [snapback]1590758[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> wow ok i didnt think i needed to spell it out for you but ok.
The general arguement against xmenu and buildmenu in combat are that these upgrades are overpowered and building dont belong in combat etc... which is basically echoed by the devs due to the fact that they have yet to release a combat build with said plugins<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sentiment is not echoed by the devs simply because they do not include a mod within a mod. Thats like saying the makers of Folgers Coffee do not condone the addition of cream or suger into their coffee because they have yet to release a coffee blend that has cream and suger already added in.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And you're basically saying that those who think xmenu and buildmenu do not belong in combat are wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Show me one place I have said anyone is wrong for thinking Xmenu and buildmenu do not belong.
Like I said in the quote you took, its all about personal preferance. This whole time Ive been stating my own personal preferance, giving my opinians on gameplay with an Xmenu and buildmenu enabled server, and giving my impressions on balance within such a server.
I think someone need to explain to me how a really stacked marine could even dent a regencarapaceredemptioncelerityadrenalinehungerthatupgradethataddsarmor-onos. Regardless of how many upgrades the marine gets, I can simply see no way for to kill that thing. Please explain this to me, and tell me if I'm wrong.
<!--quoteo(post=1590455:date=Dec 20 2006, 01:13 AM:name=Electrical_Tape)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Electrical_Tape @ Dec 20 2006, 01:13 AM) [snapback]1590455[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Because someone likes something that you do not, does not mean they are retarded. Its all a matter of what people find fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. It is retarded. With these retarded server mods, you're trying to dumb down the game into unbalanced garbage for the sake of trying to get more people to play on your server. Yeah, the pubbies will join your server, but you're driving away competitive players at the exact same time.
Why do you want to attract competative players? Because <b>they</b> are the best measurement of how 'alive' the game is. Pubbies play because they're bored, competitive players play because they love the game. You can come up with many solutions to boredom, but only one thing can satiate a competitive players crave for the balanced game. They're picker, but the important part of this is that <b>competitive players stay around for a long time</b>. While pubbies may quit, competative players stick around for much longer. They are your solid playerbase. But if noboy plays the "normal", balanced version of the game, they will leave. Without them, the game will slowly die. When you have no competitive scene, (I don't mean CAL, I just mean no more communities that take the game seriously), there is no incentive for new players to stick around to become competative.
Natural Selection would not have lasted as long as it has if it was not for the competative scene. And these exact same people are now being scared off by xmenu and buildmenu. The game is fun enough, otherwise nobody would play it at all. By trying to make the game "more fun" at the expense of balance, the mod makers and server admins are killing the competative community. Let the people who know what they're doing make major balance changes to the game. Not overzealous server administrators who are desporate for players so they can stroke their e-peen over how big their "community" is.
<!--quoteo(post=1590792:date=Dec 21 2006, 07:32 AM:name=AlexMax)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AlexMax @ Dec 21 2006, 07:32 AM) [snapback]1590792[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I disagree. It is retarded. With these retarded server mods, you're trying to dumb down the game into unbalanced garbage for the sake of trying to get more people to play on your server. Yeah, the pubbies will join your server, but you're driving away competitive players at the exact same time.
Why do you want to attract competative players? Because <b>they</b> are the best measurement of how 'alive' the game is. Pubbies play because they're bored, competitive players play because they love the game. You can come up with many solutions to boredom, but only one thing can satiate a competitive players crave for the balanced game. They're picker, but the important part of this is that <b>competitive players stay around for a long time</b>. While pubbies may quit, competative players stick around for much longer. They are your solid playerbase. But if noboy plays the "normal", balanced version of the game, they will leave. Without them, the game will slowly die. When you have no competitive scene, (I don't mean CAL, I just mean no more communities that take the game seriously), there is no incentive for new players to stick around to become competative.
Natural Selection would not have lasted as long as it has if it was not for the competative scene. And these exact same people are now being scared off by xmenu and buildmenu. The game is fun enough, otherwise nobody would play it at all. By trying to make the game "more fun" at the expense of balance, the mod makers and server admins are killing the competative community. Let the people who know what they're doing make major balance changes to the game. Not overzealous server administrators who are desporate for players so they can stroke their e-peen over how big their "community" is. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh my gawd! Thats it! =/ *sniff* <3 u man! great post!
I use to schaff at combat when it first came out, but after buildmenu and xmenu vanilla combat would be more then welcomed. It reminds me a lot of what happened to the Tribes 2 community; People who have no clue on game development hijacking a game for their cause. This then causes slow but steady fragmentation of the community into these small sub mods. This fragmentation then causes less original servers and players, who loved the game for what the developers had attended it to be, to leave slowly. This then only excalates the fragmentation of the community, and in turn escalates the lose of solid players and servers, until you have a small community of servers running variations of the game, that barely resemble the original game.
I remember I couldn't find one Tribes 2 server that didn't cycle the same custom maps and mods contoured to scout flag cappers.
Comments
I also love /buildmenu. Im not sure why so many people dislike buildmenu....
Xmenu and buildmenu combined is absolutely awesome, too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because some of us aren't completely retarded yet!
All those plugins should burn in hell... "§$"%&§&
There are a few server running without extra levels/xmenu but it seems no one realy cares to play on them... I also got a 3.1 (atm...) server without any of these plugins, but mostly no one is playing on it... I can't help it...
Edit: Electrical_Tape
Have you ever playe NS-Classic? There are buildings too!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
Besides... co_maps are too small for mass structures... it just messes up everything
But balance is boring. If I wanted to play a balanced game... I could play Pong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't see how having no chance is fun.
1: They dont belong in combat... according to you. To me, and I suspect at least a couple others, structures do belong in combat, simply because we want them there for various reasons. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hell? CO maps are not meant for structures and everyone knows that flying into a hive and instantly dying due to 90 OC's, because 2 gorges latejoined and got 10 levels and can instantly rebuild them because they get points back, is REAL FUN! Honestly, if you want to kill structures, go play classic.
99% of the reason people play Combat is to get away of the retardedness of pub classic servers--bad commanders that won't drop meds/ammo because they don't like you, faster paced games that (ideally) end quicker, and not having to deal with repetitive tedious and boring tasks of killing/building structures.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But balance is boring. If I wanted to play a balanced game... I could play Pong. I like chaos. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-psypop.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> This sums this statement up.
And just because people are bad at being commander doesn't mean they are retarded. Some people are just new, and want to experience in being a commander and develop the skills in it as well. Even though I do have to agree that they screw up the whole game if they mess up, and I do also realize there are people who do it on purpose. But you can't blame someone for being new, since once you were new as well.
The problem with xmenu is consistency. Each server has their own values and you're pretty much not playing anything close to the same game. If you say it's so balanced, then why bother making it easy for people to change the values? If it's balanced then you shouldn't need to.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The beauty of this mod is there are multiple methods of achieving the same means, meaning there are several different ways to config this and keep it balanced. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Try to destroy the command console surrounded by 20 electric turrets factorys with an onos... dead onos.
cool troll
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i know we all like to get level 5 cybernetics and level 5 uranium ammo and just bunnyhop around the map turning everything visible into a smoking pile of kharaa goo, but... yeah. seriously. xmenu is retarded, plain and simple. the same kids that love it are the ones that lack the attention span to play a game of soccer, instead they start carrying the ball in their hand or something else equally stupid.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The beauty of this mod is there are multiple methods of achieving the same means, meaning there are several different ways to config this and keep it balanced. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no the beauty is that once installed on the server, it will mess up every single round of combat. you can tweak the configs and values for all you care but they wont change anything.
1) Marines start off stonger than aliens and have more kills.
2) 1 or 2 players on the aliens lead the kills by huge margin of the players under them. If said 1 or 2 players is missing from the game aliens lose.
3) Said players under them get free levels of noob experiance from the free exp plug-in. New joining players on aliens given 6 free levels to instantly go redemption onos or xeno skulk.
4) Every alien is now eather a unkillable fade, a walker fade that gets 1-2 kills and dies, a onos or fade with redemption, a web gorge or a xeno skulk.
5) Marines get stuck in base earning very little experiance becuase the only skulks left have xeno and the bad lifeforms have redemption.
6) Game is prolonged for 20 mins becuase of agonizing long spawn protection.
I really dont understand why people find games like these fun but they happen most of the time I play on a server with extra levels, /xmenu, and free exp.
I too remember the time when I could easily find 30+ absolutely STACKED vanilla co servers. Siegemaps became popular, then xtraleves became popular... and now we are left with barely any extralevels servers left and even less vanilla co servers.
Gj Depot.
I seriously think that you ruined co for me.
A typical game on a /xmenu extra levels server:
1) Marines start off stonger than aliens and have more kills.
2) 1 or 2 players on the aliens lead the kills by huge margin of the players under them. If said 1 or 2 players is missing from the game aliens lose.
3) Said players under them get free levels of noob experiance from the free exp plug-in. New joining players on aliens given 6 free levels to instantly go redemption onos or xeno skulk.
4) Every alien is now eather a unkillable fade, a walker fade that gets 1-2 kills and dies, a onos or fade with redemption, a web gorge or a xeno skulk.
5) Marines get stuck in base earning very little experiance becuase the only skulks left have xeno and the bad lifeforms have redemption.
6) Game is prolonged for 20 mins becuase of agonizing long spawn protection.
I really dont understand why people find games like these fun but they happen most of the time I play on a server with extra levels, /xmenu, and free exp.
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<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Other scenario:
Faskalia joins the server.
Faskalia makes the first kill.
[deep hollow voice] FIRST BLOOOOOOD!!!![/deep hollow voice]
Faskalia is now level 5 and the rest of the server still level one.
Faskalia goes onos.
Faskalia kills a few more rines and start attacking the cc.
1:30 half of the rine team either left the server, is waiting in the ready room and/or are shouting/writing abuse.
1:45 Game over, aliens won, everyone hates me.
Next round starts and everyone is trying to stack my team or is calling me a hacker/cheater/######.
But the round just goes as normal as a xmenu round can get, because the stupid firstblood plugin only awards firstblood and the xp bonus, for the first kill after a mapchange.
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The beauty of this mod is there are multiple methods of achieving the same means, meaning there are several different ways to config this and keep it balanced. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
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That is not balance. That is the Marvel vs. Capcom school of game design; making a convulted game with multiple broken things, so when people finally realize it's not balanced, nobody plays it anymore.
Combat is inherently unbalanced. For 4 points, an alien can go Onos. For 4 points, a marine can go LMG/JP,
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Well, the JP is the Onos counter so why shouldn't they cost the same?
Because someone likes something that you do not, does not mean they are retarded. Its all a matter of what people find fun.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: Electrical_Tape
Have you ever playe NS-Classic? There are buildings too!!
Besides... co_maps are too small for mass structures... it just messes up everything<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I began playing NS in 1.03. I pretty much switched to CO once it came out, whenever that was. Sometime after 2.0 I guess. I didnt care much for post 1.04 classic NS, and still dont.
CO maps are to small for structures, again, according to you. Its a matter of personal preferance. Not quite sure why so many people feel the need to state their own personal opinians as if they were cold hard facts that are absolute. They are not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The hell? CO maps are not meant for structures and everyone knows that flying into a hive and instantly dying due to 90 OC's, because 2 gorges latejoined and got 10 levels and can instantly rebuild them because they get points back, is REAL FUN! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/shrug. I think its fun, and funny, when I do that as a marine. It just presents itself as a challenge to overcome, and yes, it can be overcome.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This sums this statement up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, that was pretty funny =p Im not sure why you said it, but it was funny regardless
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Combat is inherently unbalanced. For 4 points, an alien can go Onos. For 4 points, a marine can go LMG/JP, or HMG + 1 other upgrade. Everytime I point this out on a server, there's invariably something who goes "marienz just ned 2 use taemwork lolz", as though teamwork is some magical quality that only marines can hope to achieve<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An un-upgraded onos vs a marine with an HMG is toast unless the onos is right on top of the marine.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Under vanilla combat, a terrible player who went onos would get killed fairly easily if marines had a few JPers. On an xmenu server, a terrible player who went onos can simply plow through several marines with his celerity-adrenaline-silence-carapace-regen-redempt-cloak-sof-focus-stomp-infinite charge-hunger onos, then return at his hive, heal up in a few seconds, and repeat it all over again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is that terrible player on an Xmenu server going to magically get 21 (more less depending on server settings) points for all those upgrades? Aliens dont start with 21 points, they have to earn them with kills like everyone else. I can only speak from my own personal experiences, but usually by the time any alien had 21 points, I would have a comparable amount myself and be able to counter that player fairly effectively, if by no other way than to send that onos back to its hive over and over and over again.
A great method of killing these onos is to have one marine send it back to the hive, and another marine laying in wait for the redeaming onos, killing it swiftly the second it pops back. Or even have a single marine force the onos to redeam, and then chasing it himself. Ive done that alot. Onos are not invulerable.
But all in the end, It's the decision of the Server Admin. You can't do anything about it.
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That's true. But that's also part of the problem. It gives way too much control to individuals(admins) who all think differently, over a bunch of game-altering variables. Resulting in a inevitable big mess for all those helpless players.
Imo things like xmenu is more fun for <i>admins</i>. Editing those .cfg is fun isnt it? Having control on stuff. It's almost like playing dungeon keeper! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I play at 187Combat and I love xmenu and buildmenu. Why? Because it's more fun, and it also adds more depth then an otherwise horribly boring and lethargic regular Combat. And for those who are saying xmenu and buildmenu are unbalanced, well I have nothing to say then try playing a game as a marine on a NON-MODDED combat map, and having the entire Alien team be Onos, because BEFORE I started playing xmenu and custom Combat servers that was ALL I ever saw on Combat servers, of course there were Onos limiters (oh my another plugin that changes Combat so drastically, fascinating that it isn't be hated on too) but those were a dime a dozen.
In defense of xmenu, buildmenu, Onos limit, and extralevels I say this; they add more depth to the game, they are more balanced (a UA 4 Marine is still going to die to a good Fade, and more often then not that Marine only has tier 2 armor also see Onos limit) and are far more fun in general then any regular Combat server I have ever played. All in my humble opinion.
Oh and for that guy who said that they ban marines on 187Combat with a ratio greater than 1:1 that is not simply not true. And if you were banned because of that then it was either a mistake (which you can and should have taken up a complaint at their forums) or you were using an aimbot.
Now I am a combat junkie, however he fun part is that I saying that all combat players are horrible at NS or scream about xmenu not being in a NS only server is simply a uncalled for and a general dumping of players of Natural Selection. Now excuse me while I go play on my favorite custom combat server, and my favorite NS server.
An un-upgraded onos vs a marine with an HMG is toast unless the onos is right on top of the marine.
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Please, an upgraded onos can easily kill a marine with a HMG, even if it does have to transverse a significant distance, such as from middle ground on co_faceoff, and that is a best case scenario for the marine. Even if the onos can't just run up and gore the marine, he still has the advantage simply because he can hide behind a corner/doorway/whatever, and the marine cannot advance past him.
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How is that terrible player on an Xmenu server going to magically get 21 (more less depending on server settings) points for all those upgrades? Aliens dont start with 21 points, they have to earn them with kills like everyone else. I can only speak from my own personal experiences, but usually by the time any alien had 21 points, I would have a comparable amount myself and be able to counter that player fairly effectively, if by no other way than to send that onos back to its hive over and over and over again.
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Latejoin.
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A great method of killing these onos is to have one marine send it back to the hive, and another marine laying in wait for the redeaming onos, killing it swiftly the second it pops back. Or even have a single marine force the onos to redeam, and then chasing it himself. Ive done that alot. Onos are not invulerable.
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Yeeeah, I'll just camp the alien hive alone, against a team of 12 aliens who get spawn protection, will I?
I never made any insinuation that the dev team was wrong for the way they made the game. Nor did I say that CO as a whole should be limited to Xmenu and buildmenu. I simply stated my preferance for those mods over normal CO. Why the hostility over a gameplay preferance?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please, an upgraded onos can easily kill a marine with a HMG, even if it does have to transverse a significant distance, such as from middle ground on co_faceoff, and that is a best case scenario for the marine. Even if the onos can't just run up and gore the marine, he still has the advantage simply because he can hide behind a corner/doorway/whatever, and the marine cannot advance past him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said UN-upgraded. Un-upgraded onos are slow, vulerable in the open, and easy to down with an HMG.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Latejoin.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the game has gone so long as to have newly joining players being given 21 points, than most everyone else is going to have more than that, and be able to counter the onos easily.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeeeah, I'll just camp the alien hive alone, against a team of 12 aliens who get spawn protection, will I?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, why not? On some maps its harder than others, but on those you can just chase the onos down most of the time if you have a JP. If you cant chase it down for whatever reason, think of a different way. Use some tactics, be creative, or at least crafty. Plus, the entire alien team is not going to be sitting in the hive room.
Really, its not as hard as everyone is implying it is.
###### in a box anyone?
Credits to senior Steve!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmVU08zVpA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmVU08zVpA</a>
wow ok i didnt think i needed to spell it out for you but ok.
The general arguement against xmenu and buildmenu in combat are that these upgrades are overpowered and building dont belong in combat etc... which is basically echoed by the devs due to the fact that they have yet to release a combat build with said plugins<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sentiment is not echoed by the devs simply because they do not include a mod within a mod. Thats like saying the makers of Folgers Coffee do not condone the addition of cream or suger into their coffee because they have yet to release a coffee blend that has cream and suger already added in.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And you're basically saying that those who think xmenu and buildmenu do not belong in combat are wrong.
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Show me one place I have said anyone is wrong for thinking Xmenu and buildmenu do not belong.
Like I said in the quote you took, its all about personal preferance. This whole time Ive been stating my own personal preferance, giving my opinians on gameplay with an Xmenu and buildmenu enabled server, and giving my impressions on balance within such a server.
Because someone likes something that you do not, does not mean they are retarded. Its all a matter of what people find fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. It is retarded. With these retarded server mods, you're trying to dumb down the game into unbalanced garbage for the sake of trying to get more people to play on your server. Yeah, the pubbies will join your server, but you're driving away competitive players at the exact same time.
Why do you want to attract competative players? Because <b>they</b> are the best measurement of how 'alive' the game is. Pubbies play because they're bored, competitive players play because they love the game. You can come up with many solutions to boredom, but only one thing can satiate a competitive players crave for the balanced game. They're picker, but the important part of this is that <b>competitive players stay around for a long time</b>. While pubbies may quit, competative players stick around for much longer. They are your solid playerbase. But if noboy plays the "normal", balanced version of the game, they will leave. Without them, the game will slowly die. When you have no competitive scene, (I don't mean CAL, I just mean no more communities that take the game seriously), there is no incentive for new players to stick around to become competative.
Natural Selection would not have lasted as long as it has if it was not for the competative scene. And these exact same people are now being scared off by xmenu and buildmenu. The game is fun enough, otherwise nobody would play it at all. By trying to make the game "more fun" at the expense of balance, the mod makers and server admins are killing the competative community. Let the people who know what they're doing make major balance changes to the game. Not overzealous server administrators who are desporate for players so they can stroke their e-peen over how big their "community" is.
I disagree. It is retarded. With these retarded server mods, you're trying to dumb down the game into unbalanced garbage for the sake of trying to get more people to play on your server. Yeah, the pubbies will join your server, but you're driving away competitive players at the exact same time.
Why do you want to attract competative players? Because <b>they</b> are the best measurement of how 'alive' the game is. Pubbies play because they're bored, competitive players play because they love the game. You can come up with many solutions to boredom, but only one thing can satiate a competitive players crave for the balanced game. They're picker, but the important part of this is that <b>competitive players stay around for a long time</b>. While pubbies may quit, competative players stick around for much longer. They are your solid playerbase. But if noboy plays the "normal", balanced version of the game, they will leave. Without them, the game will slowly die. When you have no competitive scene, (I don't mean CAL, I just mean no more communities that take the game seriously), there is no incentive for new players to stick around to become competative.
Natural Selection would not have lasted as long as it has if it was not for the competative scene. And these exact same people are now being scared off by xmenu and buildmenu. The game is fun enough, otherwise nobody would play it at all. By trying to make the game "more fun" at the expense of balance, the mod makers and server admins are killing the competative community. Let the people who know what they're doing make major balance changes to the game. Not overzealous server administrators who are desporate for players so they can stroke their e-peen over how big their "community" is.
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Oh my gawd! Thats it! =/
*sniff* <3 u man! great post!
I use to schaff at combat when it first came out, but after buildmenu and xmenu vanilla combat would be more then welcomed. It reminds me a lot of what happened to the Tribes 2 community; People who have no clue on game development hijacking a game for their cause. This then causes slow but steady fragmentation of the community into these small sub mods. This fragmentation then causes less original servers and players, who loved the game for what the developers had attended it to be, to leave slowly. This then only excalates the fragmentation of the community, and in turn escalates the lose of solid players and servers, until you have a small community of servers running variations of the game, that barely resemble the original game.
I remember I couldn't find one Tribes 2 server that didn't cycle the same custom maps and mods contoured to scout flag cappers.
depot killed ns
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