<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Negative criticism of a specific community is not welcome on these forums<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
No one is forced to play on YO Clan. Personally, if I find a server I don't like, or with rules I don't like, then I don't play there. It's quite simple really.
Back to topic: I think it's a big shame that there are less and less decent NS servers out there. I'm not sure what can be done about it other than wait for NS2 and hope it pulls in a big new crowd of players!
<!--quoteo(post=1585231:date=Dec 7 2006, 11:22 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Dec 7 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]1585231[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You also get banned because of other peoples egotistical views and for voicing your opinion that racism clearly can not exist past the form of prejudice and bullying. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really. I've been playing on the YO servers almost exclusively since 2.0 and I have never experienced anything like that, and believe me, I've cursed and flamed like a beaten child sometimes, and I still do, although it's much less frequent. Maybe it's because I've been there for so long, because they haven't touched me yet.
I've seen a few bans but they were all justified.
<!--quoteo(post=1585232:date=Dec 7 2006, 11:40 AM:name=princess)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(princess @ Dec 7 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]1585232[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> No one is forced to play on YO Clan. Personally, if I find a server I don't like, or with rules I don't like, then I don't play there. It's quite simple really.
Back to topic: I think it's a big shame that there are less and less decent NS servers out there. I'm not sure what can be done about it other than wait for NS2 and hope it pulls in a big new crowd of players! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
z0mg, it's you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Hello my little princess <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Anyway, don't be a part of the problem. DO NOT SHUT DOWN THE YO SERVERS! Just in case you were thinking about it.
YO servers have always had a good reputation - I played there a lot before I discovered and moved to the Hardcore Playhouse servers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Just as good (if not better; no insults meant, YO) community and with larger servers...
But I can't really imagine that YO would ban people for silly things.
<!--quoteo(post=1584795:date=Dec 6 2006, 01:15 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Dec 6 2006, 01:15 PM) [snapback]1584795[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Only servers worth playing on IMHO :
Euro :
FX Clan YO Clan VCS Public
NA :
Lunixmonster (if its still around) TacticalGamer <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Add OldF and these are the only servers I will touch. There are barely any public beta servers and half are playing CO. *grumble*
I would say add Wireplay to that list although because they are hosted on Pipex, it seems to have bad routing to my poor little AOL connection thus giving me a 100+ ping <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> Although apart from that the servers still top notch.
<!--quoteo(post=1585086:date=Dec 7 2006, 03:16 AM:name=Misfire)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Misfire @ Dec 7 2006, 03:16 AM) [snapback]1585086[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i think firewater is completely right.
anyways, i really miss the 1.04 days. It was just too addicting, i dunno why though.
The games were epic and it was a constant back and forth battle. Anything could change the outcome. It was just the best game ever back then and its a shame some people couldnt experience that.
I remember when i had my old 16 player 1.04 server up, oh man full constantly, every game was something to remember. i just couldnt stop playing. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I play a different 1.04 or were JP-rushes a french speciality? I'm pretty sure they weren't, and more often then not, games consisted of... JP rushes. "Epic" games were rare. However I do agree that, past the critical 8-minute mark (if I recall correctly), if the JP rush failed, then it's much more exciting than today's overslippery slope game model.
<!--quoteo(post=1585232:date=Dec 7 2006, 11:40 AM:name=princess)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(princess @ Dec 7 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]1585232[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> No one is forced to play on YO Clan. Personally, if I find a server I don't like, or with rules I don't like, then I don't play there. It's quite simple really.
Back to topic: I think it's a big shame that there are less and less decent NS servers out there. I'm not sure what can be done about it other than wait for NS2 and hope it pulls in a big new crowd of players! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i used to play on it to some time when i got banned at least twice for something i didn't do and once for just being too good, many players have equal oppinions about yo clan admins the srv it self is fine but admins are massive ignorants. to mr. thaldarin imo you should not anwsear when you don't know enought. I remember old good 1.04 days when you could play on yo clan and not get banned for some stupid reason edit: we can always talk about this on irc.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro--> Guys, if you have negative criticism of a server community then take it to that server community. It is not permitted to use these forums to air your grievances with an NS server community.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Well, tbh, not so bothered about the servers themselves, it's the lack of servers and players that's annoying. Especially the lack of players on some of the servers that are listed as Beta servers. Half of the reason you list a server as an 'official' Beta test server is that it's going to be full of people so you can always get a game unless it's packed. I don't wanna play on my own with an HLTV bot :[
<!--quoteo(post=1585334:date=Dec 7 2006, 06:36 PM:name=DRagon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRagon @ Dec 7 2006, 06:36 PM) [snapback]1585334[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i used to play on it to some time when i got banned at least twice for something i didn't do and once for just being too good, many players have equal oppinions about yo clan admins the srv it self is fine but admins are massive ignorants. to mr. thaldarin imo you should not anwsear when you don't know enought. I remember old good 1.04 days when you could play on yo clan and not get banned for some stupid reason edit: we can always talk about this on irc. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Number 1, will take you seriously when you learn to spell and use grammar.
Number 2, played on Yo clan servers for a good length of time so I think I know enough <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
1. english is not my 1st language and i'm not using it for a long time. 2. you must be obviously bad at this game, feel sorry for you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />.
I've been playing NS off and on for a while, so I know a little, a very little though.
The primary problem I see with NS is a real lack of new players. Everyone who is here now at some point was a new player, and without a constant flow of new players into a game, the game's population dies as people outgrow the game; NS is great and all, but it's a game, and games can get boring for most people. If more people leave than come into the game, the population loses in the end.
Personally, I've been trying to figure out why people have stopped coming to NS; there used to be more noobs than there are now, at least it seems that way. I've come up with a few reasons.
The first is the game itself. NS in the older days was a little simpler; without co_, it was easy to pick up the game. New players now though come into a co_ server and get extremely confused as to where the RTs are, and why the commander isn't giving him medpacks when he calls for it. Trying to explain to people the difference is hard to do, as they typically don't know much about the ns_ style anyway. You throw plugins like extra levels, lerklift, sporemine, spawn protection, etc, in there and you get very confused newbies. Since they're confused, they aren't having as much fun, and thus the game isn't much fun, in the end resulting in them not playing.
Another thing I've noticed is the communities now-a-days. I remember when I left competetive play, I got sucked into the co_ world. I enjoyed it a lot, but on giant servers like 187combat and the former snakes-den (something like that), it's hard to join a community seeing as it's already existant and there's too many players for you to easily make a name for yourself. If a new player comes in, he would hope to find some nice people who are willing to help. This isn't easy in big servers, but it's hardest in servers where the communities have already been created; I tried to join a community that seemed a little "exclusive" for lack of a better term, and it was hard to try to get "known". When a new player faces this, he'll just quit. (I ended my attempt at playing DoD after being banned from a server for "giving the owner legal advice").
But, the biggest thing that gets to me now is the players.
When I started playing NS some 2 and a half years ago (started playing to my memory; I have difficulty remembering times before this), I sampled a lot of servers. I remember that most of the players in all of the servers were extremely friendly and helpful. After finding a good server, it seemed that most people who played NS were what I called "rejects" of CS; people who tired of the game and the constant ######/whining/######ry/hacking. Since they didn't like this culture of CS, they switched to NS where the new culture of not being an ###### for the hell of it existed. This was a very newb friendly environment as rejects of CS tend to be nicer than normal CS players, which is what the new people would start out as.
As you can imagine, my naive view of the NS world slowly changed. I don't think it's that I didn't get a good sampling, rather I feel it was sort of a change of the times.
The first thing I remembered that bothered me was smurfing. Good regulars of servers would hide under fakenicks and play well. It just bothered me, and I could never see a reason to it. When a new player sees so many different names being so amazing (who are all the same person in reality), they get discouraged, and this would prompt them to stop playing. Personally I found this to be obnoxious at best, and it bothere dme some.
Then came the "regression"... I noticed more people were ######. I don't know how it happened, but regulars of the server I played at just turned into complete jerks. One specific incident I remember is of a guy who wasn't very good, but was nice as balls. Apparently he "trained" or something and he got better. Next time (okay, over a period of time) he joins the server he's a ######, whining about registry, blaming lag, calling people names, the works. This guy wasn't the only one; I felt it happening to the entire community. Eventually I left NS because the spark of enjoyment of the people left.
I did come back into NS, but left the "competetive" (more like attempted competetive) scene due to the same reason as above; people being ######. I instead joined up with seige servers (*shudders*) and had my fun there, eventually leaving NS for CS again, due to the death of the last server I played at.
A couple months ago though, I came back into NS and have been enjoying the Toxic Hell Combat server. The people were great, and the rules were fair. To this day, I still think it's a wonderful server.
But when 3.2 was released a few weeks ago, I started playing it a lot (I like it, great job!). I haven't really been trying to find a community per se as so much as just playing the game. But in this short time, I've noticed the same things that made me ###### off two years ago. Just in pubs, people come in and act like ###### to everyone and really detract from the game. This bothers me, but I don't want it to ruin the game.
I also had the opportunity to play in a few pugs. One absuletley wonderful thing I noticed was the wonderfully colorful language some players in these pugs use; specifically racist terms. I find it ridiculous that people say these things, let alone thing it's right to say them. It bothers me, and while they are doing it in a more closed off setting, I've seen it often in regular games too. It's despicable to me. One thing that partly pushed me over the edge to write this long ramble was in a not-to-be-named server someone made a derogatory comment towards Jews, which I naturally responded that I was Jewish. Somehow it turned into an admin vote of "BURN THE JEWS?" (the "no"s won by a landslide, thank god). Behaviour like this honestly makes me want to ragequit NS and go back to trolling CS where I have admin and can stop people like this.
I'm not trying to single anyone out here. I'm just trying to provide reasons why people don't seem to play as much as they do. I'm not saying don't be an ######; that's part of gaming, everyone expects ######. But when you see new people in the server, be nice to them. Don't start screaming "OMG 1 and 25 NUB TEAM NUB TEAM NUB TEAM" (based off of a true story) and don't tell people to bug off when they ask why the commander isn't giving them medpacks; just try to help. Be nice and courtous, and people will follow.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1586103:date=Dec 9 2006, 01:44 AM:name=F4tManMGS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F4tManMGS2 @ Dec 9 2006, 01:44 AM) [snapback]1586103[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ... You throw plugins like extra levels, lerklift, sporemine, spawn protection, etc, in there and you get very confused newbies. Since they're confused, they aren't having as much fun, and thus the game isn't much fun, in the end resulting in them not playing. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree in general with your post but want to add something to this part. I see A LOT of "newbies" being able to handle the plugins like sporemines or +hook or to spam 5 ocs in 1 second, but they fail when it comes to classic and teamwork aspects. So its more like the server enviroment and the fun part of those plugins keeps them from actually learning what was supposed to be ns, because, among other things, they have to try harder and more serious to learn classic ns and achieve fun in contrast to the fun servers where you are less dependent on your teammates.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> One absuletley wonderful thing I noticed was the wonderfully colorful language some players in these pugs use; specifically racist terms. I find it ridiculous that people say these things, let alone thing it's right to say them. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I tried puging until I got tired of the rampant racism and homophobia and decided that I'd rather spend my gaming time with people who have mentally passed puberty. I know of lots of people who share this view. I've been called a 'carebear' for protesting against such language. The last pug I tried, I just quit the game during the round warmup after getting tired of one of my team mates firing off random racist garbage at the other team. This was specific bigotry against the nationality of the team we were playing.
Having said that, I still enjoy playing NS a lot, you just have to pick the right community. There are servers where such behaviour isn't tolerated at all. I recommend TGNS in North America and YO in Europe. You can usually get a friendly crowd on both servers who are more mindful of the difficulty casual players and new players have in finding a relaxed game.
As for the players who whine about 'nub team' etc, it is best to just ignore their cries for attention. They are so worried about what people think of them that they go out of their way to belittle their team mates to ensure nobody gets the wrong idea about how skilled they are.
<!--quoteo(post=1586172:date=Dec 9 2006, 06:36 AM:name=Ots)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ots @ Dec 9 2006, 06:36 AM) [snapback]1586172[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's fun to be forced to play on servers you have despised for years. I mean really, just friggin amazingly FUN! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every NS player should read this mini-story. Especially the idiots (you know who you are) who as Fatman mentioned: - think its just so cool to act racist on the internet - moan about "omg reg" "lol rates" - insult newbies while simultaneously whining about the fact that "NS is dying"
Carebear > utter ###### that need to ###### off to CS and die
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I apologise for that last line. Rage.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Most people that talk about racism now, like the last few posters above or those offended by it, are most likely racist themselves. These are the people who view others different from themselves and not on an equal level. Although notably there are words you dont say often or in public settings like swears and the N-word.
Nothing like a few words to get the competitve juices flowing.
Gaming is a sporting environment and not a business.
Everyone says that the attitudes of our players plays a part in why the community is so small. This is totally false, every game has people like this and its just as bad. CS comes to mind and that is still a very strong game even after its many many years being on the market.
My question is, if you know the person is clearly anti-semetic towards jews, and it looks like he isn't going to change, why would you give him the knowledge of your religious status?
In your mind did you feel that he would have suddenly stopped, or reacted even more harshly?
Here is a more practical solution, that I will role-play for you
Mean Player:: BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH JEWISH *mute*
Done game over, no more to hear.
People choose often choose to be offended when they are can in deed do something about it. If you know he is a racist and why would you give him more excuses to express his maladaptive cognitive processes?
I agree with most of what fatman is saying about the general attitudes and community we have now. I personally think this is a direct result of certain changes made to the game in an effort to make it more accessable, i.e. Combat. Not just because they encouraged CSers to start playing, but because they made it far easier to be effective in NS without any teamwork or comradery. When I first started playing, it took a long time for me to learn the nuances of the game, why you do certain things, why you don't do others, ect. And they way the game was I probably would have quit out of frustration if I had to deal with the kind of people who fatman is talking aobut, instead I was encouraged to learn and take my time by friendly players. Well, for the most part anyway. There was this one server I joined where I, in my nubishness, went gorge when we already had one. Most people on the team kindly asked me to devolve, but there was this one ###### screaming that I had ruined the game and should have been kicked.
In my opinion, the reason so many combat servers and NS servers are so plug in heavy now is because of the complete lack of updates and additions to NS period. When people really love and enjoy a game like NS but there's just no dev updates, new weapons, new features, no nothing for nearly a year and a half then people end up coming up with their own content to prevent themselves from getting bored with the game. It only used to be extra levels in the beginning but now there's tons upon tons of player made content on many NS servers.
I don't think the NS devs truely realize how much NS has degenerated. I don't mean the maturity level of the players but the fact there's just not as many servers since the website and forums died a while back and with it, many good servers that were well populated at all times of the day took a dive too. NS needs new content really bad, something to get people excited and want to play again and I don't mean something small but something more epic like the jump from 1.04 to 2.00.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1586247:date=Dec 9 2006, 05:05 PM:name=Emanon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Emanon @ Dec 9 2006, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1586247[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Everyone says that the attitudes of our players plays a part in why the community is so small. This is totally false, every game has people like this and its just as bad. CS comes to mind and that is still a very strong game even after its many many years being on the market. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The CS community is large enough that almost every player can find a community or clan that suits their idea of what gaming should be. In NS, all the immature children who think dirty words are a substitute for facial hair or a deeper voice are playing on the general public servers where people get offended and bans result. You end up with a general level of antagonism from all sides of the community and there is nowhere to retreat to escape it. This is why many skilled players (what some refer to as "pub allstars" in an attempt to cause insult ) refuse to move on to clanning in NS. I know many people well capable of competing at the top levels who have just quit NS completely because they simply cannot stand to hang out the minority of clan players who act like this. I'm not suggesting you try to fix it or anyting, it's a problem I personally have no interest in solving, but I think the comparison with CS is bogus. Comparing any game to CS is kind of pointless, the game has amazing momentum and will defy generalisations you make about any game.
CS may be strong, but the question is: would CS be even stronger if the offensive behaviour was better regulated? Luckily for CS they don't need to worry about such things, but for NS, I feel it has always been critical to community growth.
The other problem is the intense negativity that comes out of the NS clan scene. The 'NSISDEAD' stuff that comes out of people is puzzling. I would note that in general, the communities who avoided that overly negative attitude are the ones who have survived and are now the most popular. If you look around at some of the communities that have died off, you will notice that they increased their tolerance of general immature behaviour and embraced the NSISDEAD mentality shortly before they become victims of their own self-full filling prophecy.
I'm making some rather poor generalisations here, and I in no way mean to come across as someone who has a grudge against the clan community. I do not subscribe to the attitude that the majority clanners display the above characteristics, I firmly believe that it is only a minority of people who exhibit this behaviour, but unfortunately it only takes a few empty vessels to make the noise required to kill community momentum.
I applaud those of you who have the bottle to pick up the pieces and turn the remnants of CAL-NS into ANSL. You guys show courage and commitment that needs to be acknowledged and praised. You may not be any closer to the CPL, but you are fighting for something you care about and want to continue to enjoy, so you have our thanks and admiration. I personally will never give up on NS as long as people are playing it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> My question is, if you know the person is clearly anti-semetic towards jews, and it looks like he isn't going to change, why would you give him the knowledge of your religious status?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While my actions aren't what we should be looking at here (the point is that these bigotry and racism exists and people will say it irregardless of there being a Jew or a homosexual or an African American player in the server at the time; this hatred runs rampant in the players of NS and I think that is a problem) my point in saying that I'm Jewish to these comments is to tell people to stop talking. Most people do in fact be quiet after I tell them to stop, some even say they're sorry. Many of the people who say these comments (I'm guessing) aren't really anti-semetic, but say them because they heard them elsewhere. I hae a problem with people saying things like "you jew" and "I got jewed" and whatnot. When someone says it, I ask them to stop. In this specific situation, the person was an adament anti-semite, who upon viewing my condump, threw up a vote asking the server if it was alright to burn the Jews. My wonderful condump goes on to reveal that 4 people did in fact vote yes.
Tell me, irregardless of my actions, when a new player comes into this server and sees this, what do you think he thinks? He found a bad server? Or that the game is bad, considering that there really are only 4 American 3.2 servers that people play on?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no one is forcing you to play this game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the point I'm trying to make. He's going to quit the game because of ######bags, like you suggest. Why is the population of NS dying? There's your answer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most people that talk about racism now, like the last few posters above or those offended by it, are most likely racist themselves. These are the people who view others different from themselves and not on an equal level. Although notably there are words you dont say often or in public settings like swears and the N-word.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Making sweeping broud generalizations doesn't do anything for you. I'd view that people who cry I GOT JEWED whenever a nub kills them, or HANG THAT BLACK PERSON, or BEAT THE QUEER are in fact the real racists, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. What I say is showing what new person would see, not what the true character of these people are.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nothing like a few words to get the competitve juices flowing.
Gaming is a sporting environment and not a business.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, words can get competetive juices flowing. Like, "you suck!" or "I'm gonna kick the living ish out of you!". I've played competetively, and we all know how mcuh fun it is to beat arrogant jerkoffs who "have it coming".
But calling people homosexuals, and n-bombs, and Jews does something different. When you say something to someone to try to "get in the competetive spirit", you say it to piss em off, and to make you a "higher being" in your own view. But to call someone one of these names is to imply that it's a bad thing to be it! Saying "you queer" implies that there is a problem with being homosexual, and subtle comments like this can have a lot of effect on one's subconsious; association with homosexuals and insults? Is that good for homosexuals? I can hardly say so. The same goes for someone calling another person an n-bomb, or Jewish. It implies it's a bad thing, and this is more racism than whatever generalization you're trying to make above. Instilling that being African American or Jewish or homosexual is bad in someone's mind creates racists. It sure as hell doesn't get rid of em.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everyone says that the attitudes of our players plays a part in why the community is so small. This is totally false, every game has people like this and its just as bad. CS comes to mind and that is still a very strong game even after its many many years being on the market.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm getting the strong impression that you didn't read my first post, or some of the following posts. There are a lot of NS players who play NS because they got sick of dealing with the jerkoffs in CS. NS used to provide an alternative to gaming with a-holes. Now though, it doesn't provide an alternative; it's the same dull CS community, and this drives people to not want to play the game.
I've had a few friends put off NS simply because of the general (Unnecessary) elitist attitudes coming from many players. It's as if talking down to other players, what other players think of them, and trying to sound as intelligent as possible (even if they haven’t got a clue) is more important than actually having fun in a game.
Just a quick recent example, on a server I won’t mention, someone started the "get skillz kthx" rant at me because.... i was using spores as a lerk in the end game. Did nothing but rant when i got a kill, even threatened to ban me from the server.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While my actions aren't what we should be looking at here (the point is that these bigotry and racism exists and people will say it irregardless of there being a Jew or a homosexual or an African American player in the server at the time; this hatred runs rampant in the players of NS and I think that is a problem) my point in saying that I'm Jewish to these comments is to tell people to stop talking. Most people do in fact be quiet after I tell them to stop, some even say they're sorry. Many of the people who say these comments (I'm guessing) aren't really anti-semetic, but say them because they heard them elsewhere. I hae a problem with people saying things like "you jew" and "I got jewed" and whatnot. When someone says it, I ask them to stop. In this specific situation, the person was an adament anti-semite, who upon viewing my condump, threw up a vote asking the server if it was alright to burn the Jews. My wonderful condump goes on to reveal that 4 people did in fact vote yes.
Tell me, irregardless of my actions, when a new player comes into this server and sees this, what do you think he thinks? He found a bad server? Or that the game is bad, considering that there really are only 4 American 3.2 servers that people play on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But you know that person is not going to stop talking, if anything he is going to flame you because he is appearing to hate jews so much. Why let yourself be a victim? Just mute him and be done with it.
In real life (which probably wouldn't happen as people's identities and physical well-being are at stake) you can ask someone to stop with whatever and they will probably oblige depending on the social setting.
This is not a real life situation. This is the internet. If someone says something offensive, they most likely will not say "sorry" but realize that their behaviors are affecting another one's mood state, and would continue the behavior to rage someone else. Giving attention to it is just what they want, they want to know that their actions have "meaning" and the only way to know that is to get a reaction.
As per your arguement about new players, I don't remember the last time I even saw a new player on a server let alone one where the racisim or anti-semetic behavior was prevalant in any of my usual servers.
There really aren't new players in NS, I would love to see them but its just not a reality. But for the sake of arguement, lets assume that there are new players. They probably hail from other online communities, as NS is not a stand alone game, and requires HL1 to play. That being said, I'm sure new players to NS are aware that anonymous nature of the internet causes most people to act as they wouldn't because there are no fears of reprecussions. If thats the case, then I don't think new players would be idiotic enough to believe that racist players represent a majority of the community, and indeed should either mute that player, subject him or her to admin discipline, or find a new place to play. Its not the game's fault there are prejudice people out there, I would expect a "new" player to understand that concept.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But you know that person is not going to stop talking, if anything he is going to flame you because he is appearing to hate jews so much. Why let yourself be a victim? Just mute him and be done with it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My experience has generally been that people will quiet down when asked to stop, even if I'm not an admin. Had his comment first been to burn the jews, I would just replied SUYF, but his fist comment was labeling someone a Jew, which I find that is typically done by people who aren't anti-semetic, just talkative. I guess our experiences differ, so w/e.
Personally I've seen a few new players once or twice, but rarely do I see them again.
That is a good point though about the players not being truly discouraged by one player in one server. And if it were just one server, it wouldn't really be a problem. But it isn't one server or one player; it's multiple players. It's a general attitude that many people hold, and trying to avoid it can become tedious and repetetive. Looking at 3.2, there are really only four American servers that I see populated typically; having a problem in one server is quite a big deal as that's 25% of all available servers for a player to play on (assuming he won't play on Euro servers, and assuming it's an American player). If it were only a select few individuals who did this, it wouldn't be so much a problem. But the whole jerkoff "culture" is in nearly every server, and is very dissuading to new players as to whether or not they want to play.
<!--quoteo(post=1586290:date=Dec 9 2006, 06:51 PM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reeke @ Dec 9 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]1586290[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Agree 100% with fatman and puzl here.
I've had a few friends put off NS simply because of the general (Unnecessary) elitist attitudes coming from many players. It's as if talking down to other players, what other players think of them, and trying to sound as intelligent as possible (even if they haven’t got a clue) is more important than actually having fun in a game.
Just a quick recent example, on a server I won’t mention, someone started the "get skillz kthx" rant at me because.... i was using spores as a lerk in the end game. Did nothing but rant when i got a kill, even threatened to ban me from the server. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Back to topic: I think it's a big shame that there are less and less decent NS servers out there. I'm not sure what can be done about it other than wait for NS2 and hope it pulls in a big new crowd of players!
You also get banned because of other peoples egotistical views and for voicing your opinion that racism clearly can not exist past the form of prejudice and bullying.
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Not really. I've been playing on the YO servers almost exclusively since 2.0 and I have never experienced anything like that, and believe me, I've cursed and flamed like a beaten child sometimes, and I still do, although it's much less frequent. Maybe it's because I've been there for so long, because they haven't touched me yet.
I've seen a few bans but they were all justified.
<!--quoteo(post=1585232:date=Dec 7 2006, 11:40 AM:name=princess)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(princess @ Dec 7 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]1585232[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
No one is forced to play on YO Clan. Personally, if I find a server I don't like, or with rules I don't like, then I don't play there. It's quite simple really.
Back to topic: I think it's a big shame that there are less and less decent NS servers out there. I'm not sure what can be done about it other than wait for NS2 and hope it pulls in a big new crowd of players!
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z0mg, it's you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Hello my little princess <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Anyway, don't be a part of the problem. DO NOT SHUT DOWN THE YO SERVERS! Just in case you were thinking about it.
Just as good (if not better; no insults meant, YO) community and with larger servers...
But I can't really imagine that YO would ban people for silly things.
Only servers worth playing on IMHO :
Euro :
FX Clan
YO Clan
VCS Public
NA :
Lunixmonster (if its still around)
TacticalGamer
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Add OldF and these are the only servers I will touch. There are barely any public beta servers and half are playing CO. *grumble*
i think firewater is completely right.
anyways, i really miss the 1.04 days. It was just too addicting, i dunno why though.
The games were epic and it was a constant back and forth battle. Anything could change the outcome. It was just the best game ever back then and its a shame some people couldnt experience that.
I remember when i had my old 16 player 1.04 server up, oh man full constantly, every game was something to remember. i just couldnt stop playing.
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Did I play a different 1.04 or were JP-rushes a french speciality? I'm pretty sure they weren't, and more often then not, games consisted of... JP rushes. "Epic" games were rare.
However I do agree that, past the critical 8-minute mark (if I recall correctly), if the JP rush failed, then it's much more exciting than today's overslippery slope game model.
No one is forced to play on YO Clan. Personally, if I find a server I don't like, or with rules I don't like, then I don't play there. It's quite simple really.
Back to topic: I think it's a big shame that there are less and less decent NS servers out there. I'm not sure what can be done about it other than wait for NS2 and hope it pulls in a big new crowd of players!
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i used to play on it to some time when i got banned at least twice for something i didn't do and once for just being too good, many players have equal oppinions about yo clan admins the srv it self is fine but admins are massive ignorants.
to mr. thaldarin imo you should not anwsear when you don't know enought.
I remember old good 1.04 days when you could play on yo clan and not get banned for some stupid reason
edit: we can always talk about this on irc.
i used to play on it to some time when i got banned at least twice for something i didn't do and once for just being too good, many players have equal oppinions about yo clan admins the srv it self is fine but admins are massive ignorants.
to mr. thaldarin imo you should not anwsear when you don't know enought.
I remember old good 1.04 days when you could play on yo clan and not get banned for some stupid reason
edit: we can always talk about this on irc.
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Number 1, will take you seriously when you learn to spell and use grammar.
Number 2, played on Yo clan servers for a good length of time so I think I know enough <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
2. you must be obviously bad at this game, feel sorry for you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />.
The primary problem I see with NS is a real lack of new players. Everyone who is here now at some point was a new player, and without a constant flow of new players into a game, the game's population dies as people outgrow the game; NS is great and all, but it's a game, and games can get boring for most people. If more people leave than come into the game, the population loses in the end.
Personally, I've been trying to figure out why people have stopped coming to NS; there used to be more noobs than there are now, at least it seems that way. I've come up with a few reasons.
The first is the game itself. NS in the older days was a little simpler; without co_, it was easy to pick up the game. New players now though come into a co_ server and get extremely confused as to where the RTs are, and why the commander isn't giving him medpacks when he calls for it. Trying to explain to people the difference is hard to do, as they typically don't know much about the ns_ style anyway. You throw plugins like extra levels, lerklift, sporemine, spawn protection, etc, in there and you get very confused newbies. Since they're confused, they aren't having as much fun, and thus the game isn't much fun, in the end resulting in them not playing.
Another thing I've noticed is the communities now-a-days. I remember when I left competetive play, I got sucked into the co_ world. I enjoyed it a lot, but on giant servers like 187combat and the former snakes-den (something like that), it's hard to join a community seeing as it's already existant and there's too many players for you to easily make a name for yourself. If a new player comes in, he would hope to find some nice people who are willing to help. This isn't easy in big servers, but it's hardest in servers where the communities have already been created; I tried to join a community that seemed a little "exclusive" for lack of a better term, and it was hard to try to get "known". When a new player faces this, he'll just quit. (I ended my attempt at playing DoD after being banned from a server for "giving the owner legal advice").
But, the biggest thing that gets to me now is the players.
When I started playing NS some 2 and a half years ago (started playing to my memory; I have difficulty remembering times before this), I sampled a lot of servers. I remember that most of the players in all of the servers were extremely friendly and helpful. After finding a good server, it seemed that most people who played NS were what I called "rejects" of CS; people who tired of the game and the constant ######/whining/######ry/hacking. Since they didn't like this culture of CS, they switched to NS where the new culture of not being an ###### for the hell of it existed. This was a very newb friendly environment as rejects of CS tend to be nicer than normal CS players, which is what the new people would start out as.
As you can imagine, my naive view of the NS world slowly changed. I don't think it's that I didn't get a good sampling, rather I feel it was sort of a change of the times.
The first thing I remembered that bothered me was smurfing. Good regulars of servers would hide under fakenicks and play well. It just bothered me, and I could never see a reason to it. When a new player sees so many different names being so amazing (who are all the same person in reality), they get discouraged, and this would prompt them to stop playing. Personally I found this to be obnoxious at best, and it bothere dme some.
Then came the "regression"... I noticed more people were ######. I don't know how it happened, but regulars of the server I played at just turned into complete jerks. One specific incident I remember is of a guy who wasn't very good, but was nice as balls. Apparently he "trained" or something and he got better. Next time (okay, over a period of time) he joins the server he's a ######, whining about registry, blaming lag, calling people names, the works. This guy wasn't the only one; I felt it happening to the entire community. Eventually I left NS because the spark of enjoyment of the people left.
I did come back into NS, but left the "competetive" (more like attempted competetive) scene due to the same reason as above; people being ######. I instead joined up with seige servers (*shudders*) and had my fun there, eventually leaving NS for CS again, due to the death of the last server I played at.
A couple months ago though, I came back into NS and have been enjoying the Toxic Hell Combat server. The people were great, and the rules were fair. To this day, I still think it's a wonderful server.
But when 3.2 was released a few weeks ago, I started playing it a lot (I like it, great job!). I haven't really been trying to find a community per se as so much as just playing the game. But in this short time, I've noticed the same things that made me ###### off two years ago. Just in pubs, people come in and act like ###### to everyone and really detract from the game. This bothers me, but I don't want it to ruin the game.
I also had the opportunity to play in a few pugs. One absuletley wonderful thing I noticed was the wonderfully colorful language some players in these pugs use; specifically racist terms. I find it ridiculous that people say these things, let alone thing it's right to say them. It bothers me, and while they are doing it in a more closed off setting, I've seen it often in regular games too. It's despicable to me. One thing that partly pushed me over the edge to write this long ramble was in a not-to-be-named server someone made a derogatory comment towards Jews, which I naturally responded that I was Jewish. Somehow it turned into an admin vote of "BURN THE JEWS?" (the "no"s won by a landslide, thank god). Behaviour like this honestly makes me want to ragequit NS and go back to trolling CS where I have admin and can stop people like this.
I'm not trying to single anyone out here. I'm just trying to provide reasons why people don't seem to play as much as they do. I'm not saying don't be an ######; that's part of gaming, everyone expects ######. But when you see new people in the server, be nice to them. Don't start screaming "OMG 1 and 25 NUB TEAM NUB TEAM NUB TEAM" (based off of a true story) and don't tell people to bug off when they ask why the commander isn't giving them medpacks; just try to help. Be nice and courtous, and people will follow.
/angryrant
... You throw plugins like extra levels, lerklift, sporemine, spawn protection, etc, in there and you get very confused newbies. Since they're confused, they aren't having as much fun, and thus the game isn't much fun, in the end resulting in them not playing.
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I agree in general with your post but want to add something to this part.
I see A LOT of "newbies" being able to handle the plugins like sporemines or +hook or to spam 5 ocs in 1 second, but they fail when it comes to classic and teamwork aspects.
So its more like the server enviroment and the fun part of those plugins keeps them from actually learning what was supposed to be ns, because, among other things, they have to try harder and more serious to learn classic ns and achieve fun in contrast to the fun servers where you are less dependent on your teammates.
One absuletley wonderful thing I noticed was the wonderfully colorful language some players in these pugs use; specifically racist terms. I find it ridiculous that people say these things, let alone thing it's right to say them.
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Yeah, I tried puging until I got tired of the rampant racism and homophobia and decided that I'd rather spend my gaming time with people who have mentally passed puberty. I know of lots of people who share this view. I've been called a 'carebear' for protesting against such language. The last pug I tried, I just quit the game during the round warmup after getting tired of one of my team mates firing off random racist garbage at the other team. This was specific bigotry against the nationality of the team we were playing.
Having said that, I still enjoy playing NS a lot, you just have to pick the right community. There are servers where such behaviour isn't tolerated at all. I recommend TGNS in North America and YO in Europe. You can usually get a friendly crowd on both servers who are more mindful of the difficulty casual players and new players have in finding a relaxed game.
As for the players who whine about 'nub team' etc, it is best to just ignore their cries for attention.
They are so worried about what people think of them that they go out of their way to belittle their team mates to ensure nobody gets the wrong idea about how skilled they are.
It's fun to be forced to play on servers you have despised for years. I mean really, just friggin amazingly FUN!
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no one is forcing you to play this game
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=8524288464360926208&showtopic=99134&st=40&#entry1586103" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....p;#entry1586103</a>
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Every NS player should read this mini-story. Especially the idiots (you know who you are) who as Fatman mentioned:
- think its just so cool to act racist on the internet
- moan about "omg reg" "lol rates"
- insult newbies while simultaneously whining about the fact that "NS is dying"
Carebear > utter ###### that need to ###### off to CS and die
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I apologise for that last line. Rage.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Nothing like a few words to get the competitve juices flowing.
Gaming is a sporting environment and not a business.
Everyone says that the attitudes of our players plays a part in why the community is so small. This is totally false, every game has people like this and its just as bad. CS comes to mind and that is still a very strong game even after its many many years being on the market.
In your mind did you feel that he would have suddenly stopped, or reacted even more harshly?
Here is a more practical solution, that I will role-play for you
Mean Player:: BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH JEWISH
*mute*
Done game over, no more to hear.
People choose often choose to be offended when they are can in deed do something about it. If you know he is a racist and why would you give him more excuses to express his maladaptive cognitive processes?
It does not make sense at all.
I don't think the NS devs truely realize how much NS has degenerated. I don't mean the maturity level of the players but the fact there's just not as many servers since the website and forums died a while back and with it, many good servers that were well populated at all times of the day took a dive too. NS needs new content really bad, something to get people excited and want to play again and I don't mean something small but something more epic like the jump from 1.04 to 2.00.
Everyone says that the attitudes of our players plays a part in why the community is so small. This is totally false, every game has people like this and its just as bad. CS comes to mind and that is still a very strong game even after its many many years being on the market.
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The CS community is large enough that almost every player can find a community or clan that suits their idea of what gaming should be. In NS, all the immature children who think dirty words are a substitute for facial hair or a deeper voice are playing on the general public servers where people get offended and bans result. You end up with a general level of antagonism from all sides of the community and there is nowhere to retreat to escape it. This is why many skilled players (what some refer to as "pub allstars" in an attempt to cause insult ) refuse to move on to clanning in NS. I know many people well capable of competing at the top levels who have just quit NS completely because they simply cannot stand to hang out the minority of clan players who act like this. I'm not suggesting you try to fix it or anyting, it's a problem I personally have no interest in solving, but I think the comparison with CS is bogus. Comparing any game to CS is kind of pointless, the game has amazing momentum and will defy generalisations you make about any game.
CS may be strong, but the question is: would CS be even stronger if the offensive behaviour was better regulated? Luckily for CS they don't need to worry about such things, but for NS, I feel it has always been critical to community growth.
The other problem is the intense negativity that comes out of the NS clan scene. The 'NSISDEAD' stuff that comes out of people is puzzling. I would note that in general, the communities who avoided that overly negative attitude are the ones who have survived and are now the most popular. If you look around at some of the communities that have died off, you will notice that they increased their tolerance of general immature behaviour and embraced the NSISDEAD mentality shortly before they become victims of their own self-full filling prophecy.
I'm making some rather poor generalisations here, and I in no way mean to come across as someone who has a grudge against the clan community. I do not subscribe to the attitude that the majority clanners display the above characteristics, I firmly believe that it is only a minority of people who exhibit this behaviour, but unfortunately it only takes a few empty vessels to make the noise required to kill community momentum.
I applaud those of you who have the bottle to pick up the pieces and turn the remnants of CAL-NS into ANSL. You guys show courage and commitment that needs to be acknowledged and praised. You may not be any closer to the CPL, but you are fighting for something you care about and want to continue to enjoy, so you have our thanks and admiration. I personally will never give up on NS as long as people are playing it.
While my actions aren't what we should be looking at here (the point is that these bigotry and racism exists and people will say it irregardless of there being a Jew or a homosexual or an African American player in the server at the time; this hatred runs rampant in the players of NS and I think that is a problem) my point in saying that I'm Jewish to these comments is to tell people to stop talking. Most people do in fact be quiet after I tell them to stop, some even say they're sorry. Many of the people who say these comments (I'm guessing) aren't really anti-semetic, but say them because they heard them elsewhere. I hae a problem with people saying things like "you jew" and "I got jewed" and whatnot. When someone says it, I ask them to stop. In this specific situation, the person was an adament anti-semite, who upon viewing my condump, threw up a vote asking the server if it was alright to burn the Jews. My wonderful condump goes on to reveal that 4 people did in fact vote yes.
Tell me, irregardless of my actions, when a new player comes into this server and sees this, what do you think he thinks? He found a bad server? Or that the game is bad, considering that there really are only 4 American 3.2 servers that people play on?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no one is forcing you to play this game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the point I'm trying to make. He's going to quit the game because of ######bags, like you suggest. Why is the population of NS dying? There's your answer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most people that talk about racism now, like the last few posters above or those offended by it, are most likely racist themselves. These are the people who view others different from themselves and not on an equal level. Although notably there are words you dont say often or in public settings like swears and the N-word.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Making sweeping broud generalizations doesn't do anything for you. I'd view that people who cry I GOT JEWED whenever a nub kills them, or HANG THAT BLACK PERSON, or BEAT THE QUEER are in fact the real racists, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. What I say is showing what new person would see, not what the true character of these people are.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nothing like a few words to get the competitve juices flowing.
Gaming is a sporting environment and not a business.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, words can get competetive juices flowing. Like, "you suck!" or "I'm gonna kick the living ish out of you!". I've played competetively, and we all know how mcuh fun it is to beat arrogant jerkoffs who "have it coming".
But calling people homosexuals, and n-bombs, and Jews does something different. When you say something to someone to try to "get in the competetive spirit", you say it to piss em off, and to make you a "higher being" in your own view. But to call someone one of these names is to imply that it's a bad thing to be it! Saying "you queer" implies that there is a problem with being homosexual, and subtle comments like this can have a lot of effect on one's subconsious; association with homosexuals and insults? Is that good for homosexuals? I can hardly say so. The same goes for someone calling another person an n-bomb, or Jewish. It implies it's a bad thing, and this is more racism than whatever generalization you're trying to make above. Instilling that being African American or Jewish or homosexual is bad in someone's mind creates racists. It sure as hell doesn't get rid of em.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everyone says that the attitudes of our players plays a part in why the community is so small. This is totally false, every game has people like this and its just as bad. CS comes to mind and that is still a very strong game even after its many many years being on the market.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm getting the strong impression that you didn't read my first post, or some of the following posts. There are a lot of NS players who play NS because they got sick of dealing with the jerkoffs in CS. NS used to provide an alternative to gaming with a-holes. Now though, it doesn't provide an alternative; it's the same dull CS community, and this drives people to not want to play the game.
I've had a few friends put off NS simply because of the general (Unnecessary) elitist attitudes coming from many players. It's as if talking down to other players, what other players think of them, and trying to sound as intelligent as possible (even if they haven’t got a clue) is more important than actually having fun in a game.
Just a quick recent example, on a server I won’t mention, someone started the "get skillz kthx" rant at me because.... i was using spores as a lerk in the end game. Did nothing but rant when i got a kill, even threatened to ban me from the server.
Tell me, irregardless of my actions, when a new player comes into this server and sees this, what do you think he thinks? He found a bad server? Or that the game is bad, considering that there really are only 4 American 3.2 servers that people play on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But you know that person is not going to stop talking, if anything he is going to flame you because he is appearing to hate jews so much. Why let yourself be a victim? Just mute him and be done with it.
In real life (which probably wouldn't happen as people's identities and physical well-being are at stake) you can ask someone to stop with whatever and they will probably oblige depending on the social setting.
This is not a real life situation. This is the internet. If someone says something offensive, they most likely will not say "sorry" but realize that their behaviors are affecting another one's mood state, and would continue the behavior to rage someone else. Giving attention to it is just what they want, they want to know that their actions have "meaning" and the only way to know that is to get a reaction.
As per your arguement about new players, I don't remember the last time I even saw a new player on a server let alone one where the racisim or anti-semetic behavior was prevalant in any of my usual servers.
There really aren't new players in NS, I would love to see them but its just not a reality. But for the sake of arguement, lets assume that there are new players. They probably hail from other online communities, as NS is not a stand alone game, and requires HL1 to play. That being said, I'm sure new players to NS are aware that anonymous nature of the internet causes most people to act as they wouldn't because there are no fears of reprecussions. If thats the case, then I don't think new players would be idiotic enough to believe that racist players represent a majority of the community, and indeed should either mute that player, subject him or her to admin discipline, or find a new place to play. Its not the game's fault there are prejudice people out there, I would expect a "new" player to understand that concept.
My experience has generally been that people will quiet down when asked to stop, even if I'm not an admin. Had his comment first been to burn the jews, I would just replied SUYF, but his fist comment was labeling someone a Jew, which I find that is typically done by people who aren't anti-semetic, just talkative. I guess our experiences differ, so w/e.
Personally I've seen a few new players once or twice, but rarely do I see them again.
That is a good point though about the players not being truly discouraged by one player in one server. And if it were just one server, it wouldn't really be a problem. But it isn't one server or one player; it's multiple players. It's a general attitude that many people hold, and trying to avoid it can become tedious and repetetive. Looking at 3.2, there are really only four American servers that I see populated typically; having a problem in one server is quite a big deal as that's 25% of all available servers for a player to play on (assuming he won't play on Euro servers, and assuming it's an American player). If it were only a select few individuals who did this, it wouldn't be so much a problem. But the whole jerkoff "culture" is in nearly every server, and is very dissuading to new players as to whether or not they want to play.
Agree 100% with fatman and puzl here.
I've had a few friends put off NS simply because of the general (Unnecessary) elitist attitudes coming from many players. It's as if talking down to other players, what other players think of them, and trying to sound as intelligent as possible (even if they haven’t got a clue) is more important than actually having fun in a game.
Just a quick recent example, on a server I won’t mention, someone started the "get skillz kthx" rant at me because.... i was using spores as a lerk in the end game. Did nothing but rant when i got a kill, even threatened to ban me from the server.
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Ego, not elitist attitude.