Why Do Gorges Think They Know Best?
Demerzel
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members
<div class="IPBDescription">or how to lose a game you're winning</div> So often we've got our first hive secured ( with d tower as first upgrade ) and a second going up, we're doing good and then for some reason the gorge at the second hive decides that he knows better than anyone else on the team and he'll ignore their calls for movement chambers and instead build sesnory chambers. why oh why?
we persevere for a while trying to take that 3rd hive but marines are starting to appear with ha + hmg. Without adrenaline, it takes forever to make inroads on an enemy position and the newly armoured marines start to push us back. From this point we either stalemate them for a while and finally win through ( normally due to marine infighting or incompetent commanders ) or we get pushed futher and further back eventually losing the second hive and finally our main one.
Okay to say that it's all down to one ( dumb ) gorge ignoring the rest of us and choosing sensory chambers ( because he likes to cloak ) is probably a oversimplification and ignores other factors BUT with adrenaline things would have been so much better for the fades in the moments before they could effectively deploy HA + HMGs. We might even have taken their base and that third hive....
So for a thicko like myself, sensory loving gorges please tell me why you choose sensory chambers at all? Surely defensive chambers are alway first. Fades which come with the second hive need movement and adrenaline, so thats got to be second up and when that third hive comes you're whupping arse and you don't need cloaking. So why build sensory?
Please enlighten me...
[/rant]
we persevere for a while trying to take that 3rd hive but marines are starting to appear with ha + hmg. Without adrenaline, it takes forever to make inroads on an enemy position and the newly armoured marines start to push us back. From this point we either stalemate them for a while and finally win through ( normally due to marine infighting or incompetent commanders ) or we get pushed futher and further back eventually losing the second hive and finally our main one.
Okay to say that it's all down to one ( dumb ) gorge ignoring the rest of us and choosing sensory chambers ( because he likes to cloak ) is probably a oversimplification and ignores other factors BUT with adrenaline things would have been so much better for the fades in the moments before they could effectively deploy HA + HMGs. We might even have taken their base and that third hive....
So for a thicko like myself, sensory loving gorges please tell me why you choose sensory chambers at all? Surely defensive chambers are alway first. Fades which come with the second hive need movement and adrenaline, so thats got to be second up and when that third hive comes you're whupping arse and you don't need cloaking. So why build sensory?
Please enlighten me...
[/rant]
Comments
With fade, it's very easy, get near their base and cloak. they walk by in their slow HA, you acid rocket them twice, then slash them to death. Onos is just hilarious, same idea, except use Paralyze insead of Acid Rocket. HA = ONOS fodder.
One time, a gorg made sensory chambers INSTEAD OF DEFENCE chambers, we tried as hard as we could toget a 2nd hive to make defence, but it was all for naught.
With two hives, I want carapaced Fades shooting acid MGs, because they are simply the best aliens RPs can buy.
And I've won every game where we got Sensory second. It's NOT hard, just adjust your playing style.
3 of 5 players on a team cloaked at their exits, they cannot expand. THe other two, go get the last hive and resource nodes.
3 of 5 players on a team cloaked at their exits, they cannot expand. THe other two, go get the last hive and resource nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would require competence and coordination on the part of the alien team and marines too stupid to even place an observatory to nullify cloaking.
And I've won every game where we got Sensory second. It's NOT hard, just adjust your playing style.
3 of 5 players on a team cloaked at their exits, they cannot expand. THe other two, go get the last hive and resource nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
phase gates would negate that strategy as they can move troops around to different locations and strike with different levels of force whenever and wherever they wish. How you going to cover 2 or three bases with just 3 players?
And I've won every game where we got Sensory second. It's NOT hard, just adjust your playing style.
3 of 5 players on a team cloaked at their exits, they cannot expand. THe other two, go get the last hive and resource nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...and emmediately after noticing his troops getting slashed to pieces the commander sets up another sensor at the edge of the base preventing the aliens to cloak. Plus he uses that sensor sweep to uncloak any aliens infront of the troops he sends out. And you just chose a skill you have 0 use of instead of adrenaline that heps immensly while attacking bases with either fades or lerks.
Both lerks and fades need adrenaline far more than they need cloaking, with adrenaline lerks can fly around and shoot spikes at marines far longer than without it and as have already been mentioned before fades take AGES to destroy any bases without adrenaline.
So I ended the conversation by say
Oh and did you know if you have an obsevratory you can't cloak
Noob Gourges:... Yes and?
Me:Well since thier just as cheap as turrets I just built one in every outpost, sorry but your cloaking is <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Defense/move/sensory isn't always the way to go.. if you're all *BLEEP*in' newbs, then maybe.. but have you ever heard a silent skulk? You do when they start killing you while you weren't looking (b/c they were building or something). Boom, 23 resources wasted.
One time on a 2v4 (I was on the two with a good friend of mine), I went gorge, built a movement chamber, he went celerity first to parasite them all, died, went silence and nibbled on them whenever they came out to build stuff.
By then I had my second hive up, and I built sensory chambers. In 1.02, they cost only 10 resources so it really only cost me 2 offensive chambers to build all three sensory chambers (resources are important as a gorge). We then had a cloaked skulk, who upgraded to a cloaked fade. By then we were all fighting for the third hive, so I could just healspray him and let him do all the work while I saved up for a third hive. Boom, Onos, we won. Oh yeah, defense chambers too. Def/mov/sensory isn't the only way to go. Move/def/sens usually works if your team is good enough to get that second hive up. Mov/sens/def if your team needs to keep them spending more resources than you (limited resource map, everybody but gorge stays skulk or lerk, therefore only costing 4 or 37 resources).
Erm, this turned into a long post,
THE MORAL: there isn't only one strategy. Learn to adapt, or a marine commander that can will kick your *** every time, even with llama marines.
oh about the communications towers? They're really weak.. like a <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> +2 seconds to kill weak. it doesn't matter how hard these <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> try to stop you, you'll get that 20 resource structure before they get you.. But there are cases where that is impossible. I just wanted to show a strategy that I use to try and crack a communications tower rush. Wait for the rines to leave, and crack the comm tower.. they'll still think they can see me, and I'll think I can still cream him. Once they get that motion center up things get ugly, but sometimes I will still survive.
what is the next best thing after Cloaking? Hive sight or scent of fear?
what is the next best thing after Cloaking? Hive sight or scent of fear?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scent of Fear
If you are using an onos or fade you might not even bother upgrading sensory and just using it to heal quickly once injured.
Defense -> Movement -> Sensory is the best order, and gives your team the greatest change for sucess.
If you are expanding fast, SOMETIMES you can swap the last two and still win. But whatever you do, you have got to build Defense first. Without Defense, if the Marines are aggressive in the slightest your Gorges get overloaded giving out health Spray and can't expand.
Cloaking rocks, but the healing powers of Defensive Chambers, and the Movement Chamber upgrades (not to mention the ability to rapidly go from hive1 to hive2) are more important in a 2 hive game.
also everyone says def, movement, sensory there isnt much point to sensory when you have 3 hives
"It HAS to be that way."
"Def./Move./Sens. is the ONLY way to go.
Sensory can be made to be just as useful as a movement chamber.
The problem here would be that it actually requires THOUGHT and a change of STYLE to use properly. I know that to be above and beyond what some people on the servers can manage, and is usually met with;
"OMG y0u are t3h n00b y00 n0 build s3ns0ry teh are cr4p 1 w4nt to ru$h !n and k!ll 3v3rything by shooting 0ver and 0ver!"
Cloaking is containment, its psychological warfare. Marines absolutely *freak* out when they realize that cloaked fades are camping randomly around the map, but of course, no one thinks about this. They simply think "OMG it takes me longer to fire acid rockets omg omg omg."
As you can probably tell, I hate non-thinking n00bs.
I think one thing that might possibly end this argument would be to implement the idea I've seen other people have. Have the aliens start off being able to build all three upgrade chambers, with their abilities at level 1, and for each hive they capture, upgrade those abilities another level, whereas having 3 hives would give you the 3rd level of all three chambers. I find this to also make the game more interesting, as it is right now there's no point to having level 1-2-3 for the different upgrades, as all three of a certain type of chamber are usually built consecutively one immediately after the other.
This type of concept would actually teach you the limitations behind the level 1-level 2 abilities, something few people ever have to deal with.
The only use I've ever seen for Cloaking is for someone to hide. In a corner. And wait for someone to walk by.
In other words, being Defensive instead of Offensive; which is what the Kharaa AREN'T SUPPOSED TO DO.
The Kharaa are the OFFENSIVE team. They MUST expand, they MUST take over new ground. Hiding invisibly in a corner waiting for someone to walk by has very little to do with expanding. It has more to do with feeling 'l33t' because you ganked one person...then his three teammates shot the crap out of you.
Take Cloaking first and all it means is that the Marines will have Observatories up that much faster. Sure, you'll catch a few unawares Marines who leave their base by hanging over doors...but that'll end very soon, especially when they realize you're using paper-Skulks who have no Carapace and die in ten LMG shots. And what have you gained? Killing unupgraded Marines is a waste of time after the early game; ESPECIALLY if you've spent two RP to upgrade, then die.
The Kharaa are the OFFENSIVE team. They MUST expand, they MUST take over new ground.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Fam+Nov 24 2002, 08:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fam @ Nov 24 2002, 08:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The aliens are meant to be the defensive team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's nice to see everybody's on the same page.