Back in the good ol days when I was still playing, I used to be a pretty good perma gorge. (Heck, in 1.04 there were only perma gorges) I mangaged to survive quite well out in the dangrous world of RTs and marines...
A good gorge can keep his team boosted with chambers and the occasional hive, while doing his primary job of getting RTs. But what is there left for a gorge to do once all safe RTs are takes, the second hive is coming around and both chambers are built? I agree however, that in clan games and such, there are no OCs until far into the game, if even then. Its because there is too few players in both teams. No res can be spent on anything but the most important of things.
Public play is another story though. Using only one SC or a few DCs in combination with OCs placed with skill in an important part of the map can make a world of difference. I remeber playing maps where a few friends and I would block two or three bottlenecks and force the marines to fight with only one or two RTs, while we built hives and gathered res.
Using OCs offensively or defensively is not impossible, but I do agree its hard, and costly. Unless your team is somewhat good, its no sue trying to hold half of the map yourself either. OCs needs to be buffed to remain a part of the game.
I find OC pretty usefull. I started to play ns on it's early stages,and i have never thought oc were useles...
The only time where OCs are useless, is when marines are aible to get HMG and GL. if someone build an oc then, yes you can say that he is nub.
Early in a game, ppl drop OCs to secure unbuilt hives, to block certain paths... OCs alone = ****, OCs come with a DC combo, Always have 1DC for 2-3 OCs minimum.
I don't know how you think OCs suck, but they don't, Yes, a fade, a lerk are STRONGER, then OCs, notice the word stronger. Because OCs are far more usefull then a fade or a lerk could ever be.
5-10min after game has started, there you have 5 OCs and 2 DC blocking a certain path to a certain important place. Unvurnable? certainly not, but i do not think that a com would be into seiging these chambers, if he doesn't have gl or hmg. Plus, you can never have a player stay (camp) at one place and defend it, but you can have some OCs to do that.
Saying OCs are ****, it's like saying Turrets are ****. They both play an important role, i would also say that OCs play an even more important role then any turret.
<!--QuoteBegin-project demon+Jul 17 2005, 11:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (project demon @ Jul 17 2005, 11:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I find OC pretty usefull. I started to play ns on it's early stages,and i have never thought oc were useles...
The only time where OCs are useless, is when marines are aible to get HMG and GL. if someone build an oc then, yes you can say that he is nub.
Early in a game, ppl drop OCs to secure unbuilt hives, to block certain paths... OCs alone = ****, OCs come with a DC combo, Always have 1DC for 2-3 OCs minimum.
I don't know how you think OCs suck, but they don't, Yes, a fade, a lerk are STRONGER, then OCs, notice the word stronger. Because OCs are far more usefull then a fade or a lerk could ever be.
5-10min after game has started, there you have 5 OCs and 2 DC blocking a certain path to a certain important place. Unvurnable? certainly not, but i do not think that a com would be into seiging these chambers, if he doesn't have gl or hmg. Plus, you can never have a player stay (camp) at one place and defend it, but you can have some OCs to do that.
Saying OCs are ****, it's like saying Turrets are ****. They both play an important role, i would also say that OCs play an even more important role then any turret. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A single fade can sink hundreds of marine res in guns, meds, ammo, and structures. A good fade is always more usefull then 5 ocs, period. Lerks are even more devistating then fades because thier gas forces commanders to constantly med his marines. A set of 3 ocs MABY denys an area or forces marines to take the long way around, most Ocs won't even kill more then 1-2 res worth of meds in a games lifetime, with the possible exception of anti JP ocs, which are just evil.
<!--QuoteBegin-project demon+Jul 17 2005, 11:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (project demon @ Jul 17 2005, 11:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Early in a game, ppl drop OCs to secure unbuilt hives, to block certain paths... OCs alone = ****, OCs come with a DC combo, Always have 1DC for 2-3 OCs minimum.
[yelling yelling]
5-10min after game has started, there you have 5 OCs and 2 DC blocking a certain path to a certain important place. Unvurnable? certainly not, but i do not think that a com would be into seiging these chambers, if he doesn't have gl or hmg. Plus, you can never have a player stay (camp) at one place and defend it, but you can have some OCs to do that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you seriously suggesting that one should put down defense chambers for the first hive just so they can enjoy a few easily taken-down offense chambers?
Can't believe there is an arguement about whether chambers or ocs are better. Tbh, rofls. Ocs have EXTREMELY limited use about the vast majority of the time they are dropped, they are placed incorrectly and out of their limited use range.
Btw, you guys arguing that ocs are better than fades/lerks/rts/chambers are all noobs and really really make my sides ache a lot from all the laughing I have been doing. Keep up the good work with the comedy and ruining pubing for the rest of us.
Offense Chambers AREN'T useless, they're kindve like spores. They only get rid of the Marines armor when medspam occurs and only to ****** marines off and weaken them. They aren't meant to be "area holders" like Turrets (and if that's the idea behind their use in a devs eyes, I honestly don't know what's going through their heads <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
If a Commander really want's to set up a phase gate to shotty down a hive through a forest of OC's medspam will help achieve it. OC's are technically *useless* because of their horrible blind spots and the ability for a commander to drop medpacks directly on top of a marine technically making him invincible to OC's. So the answer here is , OC's will always be worthless pieces of **** as long as they have the paper thin armor and low HP they have now, and that commanders have the ability to drop medpacks directly onto the front lines. So yes I would rather see 3 dcs/scs/mcs rather then 3 ocs in 1 area at any time.
Yes they're like spores. Spores being emitted from a lerk who's stuck in one area for the whole game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Who also doesn't take up a slot on your player list...
Lets take a random server size and say you have 7 aliens. Now you spend 30 res and evolve into Lerk. You still have 7 aliens, but one of them is more powerful.
Instead say you drop a pair of OCs. Now you have 7 aliens AND 2 OCs who can stand around and act like not-so-good Lerks. Better than the Lerk? Maybe not. But you have them AND an extra skulk running around.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Jul 18 2005, 09:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Jul 18 2005, 09:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who also doesn't take up a slot on your player list...
Lets take a random server size and say you have 7 aliens. Now you spend 30 res and evolve into Lerk. You still have 7 aliens, but one of them is more powerful.
Instead say you drop a pair of OCs. Now you have 7 aliens AND 2 OCs who can stand around and act like not-so-good Lerks. Better than the Lerk? Maybe not. But you have them AND an extra skulk running around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And if a marine shoots at the ocs, they go off on hive sight and you know where either one damaged marine, or several marines pusing a choke point are. They watch a spot when the rest of your team cannot
The team never reacts to the OC being under attack. I've tried this many, many times on different servers... as alien, I'll parasite the OC or something so that it's damaged a bit, no response from my team. As Marine, I'll attack it a bit - and in the end, possibly even kill it... very little response, 1 or 2 skulks at the most. Nowhere enough to stop 1 marine, forget about a massive push.
Why would you place DCs with OCs, anyway? They provide no offensive capability, and they slow down the marines by an additional 5 seconds. Oh no. DCs' healing power is overestimated, especially with chambers.
DCs power is overestimated because they USED to have that much power, back when aliens had less hp but smaller/stranger hitboxes. Each 10 hp was worth more when you could count on the majority of the marines missing you because your hitbox didnt line up with your model. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->100 shots, each doing 10 damage to offense chamber has health of: 0 in 10 seconds, excluding reload times.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> An extra 10 health per second or so won't affect it that much.
This thread has been discussed on the NSRadio.net show <i>Forum Junkies </i>because of it's interest to the show hosts urinal-cake, Vepo, Firewater, and ds^depot.
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Comments
A good gorge can keep his team boosted with chambers and the occasional hive, while doing his primary job of getting RTs. But what is there left for a gorge to do once all safe RTs are takes, the second hive is coming around and both chambers are built? I agree however, that in clan games and such, there are no OCs until far into the game, if even then. Its because there is too few players in both teams. No res can be spent on anything but the most important of things.
Public play is another story though. Using only one SC or a few DCs in combination with OCs placed with skill in an important part of the map can make a world of difference. I remeber playing maps where a few friends and I would block two or three bottlenecks and force the marines to fight with only one or two RTs, while we built hives and gathered res.
Using OCs offensively or defensively is not impossible, but I do agree its hard, and costly. Unless your team is somewhat good, its no sue trying to hold half of the map yourself either. OCs needs to be buffed to remain a part of the game.
We should start a fanclub...
The only time where OCs are useless, is when marines are aible to get HMG and GL. if someone build an oc then, yes you can say that he is nub.
Early in a game, ppl drop OCs to secure unbuilt hives, to block certain paths... OCs alone = ****, OCs come with a DC combo, Always have 1DC for 2-3 OCs minimum.
I don't know how you think OCs suck, but they don't, Yes, a fade, a lerk are STRONGER, then OCs, notice the word stronger. Because OCs are far more usefull then a fade or a lerk could ever be.
5-10min after game has started, there you have 5 OCs and 2 DC blocking a certain path to a certain important place. Unvurnable? certainly not, but i do not think that a com would be into seiging these chambers, if he doesn't have gl or hmg. Plus, you can never have a player stay (camp) at one place and defend it, but you can have some OCs to do that.
Saying OCs are ****, it's like saying Turrets are ****. They both play an important role, i would also say that OCs play an even more important role then any turret.
The only time where OCs are useless, is when marines are aible to get HMG and GL. if someone build an oc then, yes you can say that he is nub.
Early in a game, ppl drop OCs to secure unbuilt hives, to block certain paths... OCs alone = ****, OCs come with a DC combo, Always have 1DC for 2-3 OCs minimum.
I don't know how you think OCs suck, but they don't, Yes, a fade, a lerk are STRONGER, then OCs, notice the word stronger. Because OCs are far more usefull then a fade or a lerk could ever be.
5-10min after game has started, there you have 5 OCs and 2 DC blocking a certain path to a certain important place. Unvurnable? certainly not, but i do not think that a com would be into seiging these chambers, if he doesn't have gl or hmg. Plus, you can never have a player stay (camp) at one place and defend it, but you can have some OCs to do that.
Saying OCs are ****, it's like saying Turrets are ****. They both play an important role, i would also say that OCs play an even more important role then any turret. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A single fade can sink hundreds of marine res in guns, meds, ammo, and structures. A good fade is always more usefull then 5 ocs, period. Lerks are even more devistating then fades because thier gas forces commanders to constantly med his marines. A set of 3 ocs MABY denys an area or forces marines to take the long way around, most Ocs won't even kill more then 1-2 res worth of meds in a games lifetime, with the possible exception of anti JP ocs, which are just evil.
HMGs suck against ocs.
[yelling yelling]
5-10min after game has started, there you have 5 OCs and 2 DC blocking a certain path to a certain important place. Unvurnable? certainly not, but i do not think that a com would be into seiging these chambers, if he doesn't have gl or hmg. Plus, you can never have a player stay (camp) at one place and defend it, but you can have some OCs to do that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you seriously suggesting that one should put down defense chambers for the first hive just so they can enjoy a few easily taken-down offense chambers?
Btw, you guys arguing that ocs are better than fades/lerks/rts/chambers are all noobs and really really make my sides ache a lot from all the laughing I have been doing. Keep up the good work with the comedy and ruining pubing for the rest of us.
If a Commander really want's to set up a phase gate to shotty down a hive through a forest of OC's medspam will help achieve it. OC's are technically *useless* because of their horrible blind spots and the ability for a commander to drop medpacks directly on top of a marine technically making him invincible to OC's. So the answer here is , OC's will always be worthless pieces of **** as long as they have the paper thin armor and low HP they have now, and that commanders have the ability to drop medpacks directly onto the front lines. So yes I would rather see 3 dcs/scs/mcs rather then 3 ocs in 1 area at any time.
Lets take a random server size and say you have 7 aliens. Now you spend 30 res and evolve into Lerk. You still have 7 aliens, but one of them is more powerful.
Instead say you drop a pair of OCs. Now you have 7 aliens AND 2 OCs who can stand around and act like not-so-good Lerks. Better than the Lerk? Maybe not. But you have them AND an extra skulk running around.
Lets take a random server size and say you have 7 aliens. Now you spend 30 res and evolve into Lerk. You still have 7 aliens, but one of them is more powerful.
Instead say you drop a pair of OCs. Now you have 7 aliens AND 2 OCs who can stand around and act like not-so-good Lerks. Better than the Lerk? Maybe not. But you have them AND an extra skulk running around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if a marine shoots at the ocs, they go off on hive sight and you know where either one damaged marine, or several marines pusing a choke point are. They watch a spot when the rest of your team cannot
An extra 10 health per second or so won't affect it that much.
Check out the live recording and download over at <a href='http://www.NSRadio.net' target='_blank'>http://www.NSRadio.net</a>.