I'm wondering if dhakbar spent too much time playing with the menus rather than the game itself. Yes I am not a fan of the server browser, but there is currently nothing better than a good game of BF2 with a squad full of your buddies. NS included.
<!--QuoteBegin-MistenTH+Jul 1 2005, 12:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MistenTH @ Jul 1 2005, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I still love NS and its gameplay, but more and more often when I decide whether to click on steam or BF2, it ends up being BF2.
I'm probably playing only like 10% of the NS i used to due to BF2, and it's been almost a month.
Anyone else behaving the same way? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No. BF2 or WOW or any reasonable facsimile will never replace NS on my fun list. Ever.
NS's biggest problem for me is outside of scrims/matches I loathe the game unless its a small game with e-friends <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-puzl+Jul 5 2005, 04:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (puzl @ Jul 5 2005, 04:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I find it ironic that you lecture people on interpretation of arguments and proceed to confuse a correlation with a causation in the next line. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dont think he is saying BF2 is the #1 reason for the decline in NS's player base (the quote I took from your reply suggest that), I think he's more or less asking the question 'why is the NS playerbase declining' and one of the answers people are trying to provide is "because new games are being released" (aka BF2). FW is bringing up the point that just because new games are coming out, doesn't mean mods are doomed to fail - and showed an execellent example of CS overtaking everything.
My personal response for the question 'why has the NS player base gone down' would be because the devs could not see that changes they made to their game has made NS not fun for the average public player - and it appears making NS fun again isn't on the "to do" list. (but increasing gest time by 1 second sure is, and no doubt that will bring more players into the game)
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodBall+Jul 5 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodBall @ Jul 5 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I quit NS for BF2 becuase NS is such a crappy game, with a whole lot of crappy players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thats cool dude
<!--QuoteBegin-Brackhar+Jul 5 2005, 02:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brackhar @ Jul 5 2005, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, I enjoy NS more than BF2. I thought I made that clear.
-Brackhar <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought I made it clear also. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodBall+Jul 5 2005, 12:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodBall @ Jul 5 2005, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I quit NS for BF2 becuase NS is such a crappy game, with a whole lot of crappy players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> at least theres one less now BAM
<!--QuoteBegin-Teppla+Jul 5 2005, 07:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teppla @ Jul 5 2005, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Looks like Depot and Brackhar agree also about BF2 being better then NS, is there anyone here that even likes NS? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think I met a hobo once who said NS was better than BF2. Mind you, he wasnt wearing any pants, and did I mention he was crazy?
I just read SentrySteve's post and it mirrors my feelings for the game. Good thing this forum has the "off-topic" section eh? or all my old NS buddies wouldnt even be around.
<!--QuoteBegin-puzl+Jul 5 2005, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (puzl @ Jul 5 2005, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> However if you are not eFriendly, no matter how much empirical information one has provided with valid interpretations of said data can simply be dismissed even by the higher ups in the community because the presentation does not come wrapped in the "appropriate" wording.
No wonder the NS community is down from 1,200 players at one time, to about 500 (gamespy.com)
I find it ironic that you lecture people on interpretation of arguments and proceed to confuse a correlation with a causation in the next line. It's a basic logical fallacy and you walked into it with your eyes open. Furthermore, you have pretty much made a stencil copy of the type of post you attempted to criticise.
I think only a fool would argue that NS is more popular than BF2. I for one know what game I'll be playing, and I know of plenty places to do that with likeminded people.
Your basic strategy is this FireWater:
Anything you don't like about the NS community is blamed for the problems within the competitive community and ns in general. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Poor development of a game leads to a lower player amount, lower player amounts do not lead to poor development. I see no illusory correlation between the two. So your irony is artificial in that matter.
I remember a few months ago when NS reached over 1,200 players consistently.
All I am asking is why the sudden drop in player count, with providing a few potential solutions. One of them is the dev team focusing more on mature presentation of ideas rather than constructive ones that might have a little bit of eFensive material coinciding with that. Another one is that a new published game came out that has some similar properties than NS and is a better game because it takes away a lot of the flaws in the NS game design.
Judging from the responses in this thread, it is safe to conclude that hardly anyone plays NS anymore due to BF2 and NS is officially dead. Sorry to say it guys.
Depot and and Brackhar can back me up on this one.
It did for awhile, but then I got tired of little kids stealing jets and helis on to crash them two seconds later. I still play on occasion though, i am number 1 uber medic lawlawlawl!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I remember a few months ago when NS reached over 1,200 players consistently.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My, <a href='http://www.steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html' target='_blank'>what a surprise</a> (for later reference: 1119 players as of 1:05pm PST (21:05 GMT), July 05 2005). I have no idea where you got that "consistently" from. No game in existence has a single consistent number of players all around the clock; we've been orbiting between 1200 and 600 to 800 players around the day for a long time (Steampowered stats, Gamespy stats are generally a bit lower). Weekend turnouts tend to be higher.
I'm not going to involve myself too deeply here. Some of you do not like the way we have chosen for the game, which is fine by me; we have given explanations and background on our decisions, and if you decide to retain your attitudes even in cases where your expectations are just not realistically achieveable - once again, Sentry, we can not tackle code issues of any significant scale in a .0.x patch - that's your choice.
Are our numbers sinking? Yes. Slowly. We are at the end of a client release's lifespan, and on an eight years old engine. What do you expect? There are some things in the near future that're very likely to increase our numbers again, but nobody in their right mind can expect a game not to take a hit when a big game release rolls around. CS has usually up to 30.000 players more around this time of day. It's just the way of the world, and I'm not going to be too ruffled by that, because the last thing NS' development needs is panic.
Independently from that, I'd like to point out that I've still got admin privileges on these boards, so if your decide to flame a fellow member (you know who you are), you'll reap the consequences.
So does that mean I'll have to wait until Ns:source for code related fixes? I'm pretty sure there are some important aspects to the game that need overhauling and are simply being put to one side for "Source" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There will be some code fixes in 3.0.5 (we got more testing time in for that one), but the next significant code changes (read: features and feature changes) will happen with 3.1. We'll definetely do a 3.2 and possibly versions after that parallely to Source development, so we will not leave NS half-finished. It'll be wrapped up to be a complete package.
Interestingly, NS is about where it usually is, but TFC has enjoyed a resurgence:
Game Current Players Current Servers Player Minutes / Month TeamFortress Classic 1,168 645 33.089 million Natural Selection 892 414 36.125 million
I haven't played NS for while, but it's been because of Guild Wars (best online RPG ever, BTW), not BF2. I don't even really want to play an FPS that has "realistic" weapons. If you have to stand still to have accuracy and you can be killed extremely quickly and extreme range, then it's not my idea of fun.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 1 2005, 05:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 1 2005, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not really, at least in NS my bullets go where I aim <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then why do you have a topic about how your bullets don't register? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Jul 6 2005, 02:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Jul 6 2005, 02:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Interestingly, NS is about where it usually is, but TFC has enjoyed a resurgence: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, that one's pretty interesting. Note that it happened literally without of any bigger PR. Pretty impressive.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 6 2005, 03:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 6 2005, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 1 2005, 05:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 1 2005, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not really, at least in NS my bullets go where I aim <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then why do you have a topic about how your bullets don't register? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The bullets go where he is shooting - whether or not they hit is a different matter.
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Jul 6 2005, 05:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Jul 6 2005, 05:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 6 2005, 03:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 6 2005, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 1 2005, 05:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 1 2005, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not really, at least in NS my bullets go where I aim <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then why do you have a topic about how your bullets don't register? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The bullets go where he is shooting - whether or not they hit is a different matter. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was typing that then you went and said it first ;X
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 6 2005, 04:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 6 2005, 04:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was typing that then you went and said it first ;X <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I just read your mind. (Not much in there BTW...) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
I'm probably playing only like 10% of the NS i used to due to BF2, and it's been almost a month.
Anyone else behaving the same way? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. BF2 or WOW or any reasonable facsimile will never replace NS on my fun list. Ever.
I dont think he is saying BF2 is the #1 reason for the decline in NS's player base (the quote I took from your reply suggest that), I think he's more or less asking the question 'why is the NS playerbase declining' and one of the answers people are trying to provide is "because new games are being released" (aka BF2). FW is bringing up the point that just because new games are coming out, doesn't mean mods are doomed to fail - and showed an execellent example of CS overtaking everything.
My personal response for the question 'why has the NS player base gone down' would be because the devs could not see that changes they made to their game has made NS not fun for the average public player - and it appears making NS fun again isn't on the "to do" list. (but increasing gest time by 1 second sure is, and no doubt that will bring more players into the game)
thats cool dude
-Brackhar
-Brackhar <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought I made it clear also. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
at least theres one less now BAM
huh.
-Brackhar
I think I met a hobo once who said NS was better than BF2. Mind you, he wasnt wearing any pants, and did I mention he was crazy?
I just read SentrySteve's post and it mirrors my feelings for the game. Good thing this forum has the "off-topic" section eh? or all my old NS buddies wouldnt even be around.
However if you are not eFriendly, no matter how much empirical information one has provided with valid interpretations of said data can simply be dismissed even by the higher ups in the community because the presentation does not come wrapped in the "appropriate" wording.
No wonder the NS community is down from 1,200 players at one time, to about 500 (gamespy.com)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it ironic that you lecture people on interpretation of arguments and proceed to confuse a correlation with a causation in the next line. It's a basic logical fallacy and you walked into it with your eyes open. Furthermore, you have pretty much made a stencil copy of the type of post you attempted to criticise.
I think only a fool would argue that NS is more popular than BF2. I for one know what game I'll be playing, and I know of plenty places to do that with likeminded people.
Your basic strategy is this FireWater:
Anything you don't like about the NS community is blamed for the problems within the competitive community and ns in general. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Poor development of a game leads to a lower player amount, lower player amounts do not lead to poor development. I see no illusory correlation between the two. So your irony is artificial in that matter.
I remember a few months ago when NS reached over 1,200 players consistently.
All I am asking is why the sudden drop in player count, with providing a few potential solutions. One of them is the dev team focusing more on mature presentation of ideas rather than constructive ones that might have a little bit of eFensive material coinciding with that. Another one is that a new published game came out that has some similar properties than NS and is a better game because it takes away a lot of the flaws in the NS game design.
Depot and and Brackhar can back me up on this one.
My, <a href='http://www.steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html' target='_blank'>what a surprise</a> (for later reference: 1119 players as of 1:05pm PST (21:05 GMT), July 05 2005). I have no idea where you got that "consistently" from. No game in existence has a single consistent number of players all around the clock; we've been orbiting between 1200 and 600 to 800 players around the day for a long time (Steampowered stats, Gamespy stats are generally a bit lower). Weekend turnouts tend to be higher.
I'm not going to involve myself too deeply here. Some of you do not like the way we have chosen for the game, which is fine by me; we have given explanations and background on our decisions, and if you decide to retain your attitudes even in cases where your expectations are just not realistically achieveable - once again, Sentry, we can not tackle code issues of any significant scale in a .0.x patch - that's your choice.
Are our numbers sinking? Yes. Slowly. We are at the end of a client release's lifespan, and on an eight years old engine. What do you expect? There are some things in the near future that're very likely to increase our numbers again, but nobody in their right mind can expect a game not to take a hit when a big game release rolls around. CS has usually up to 30.000 players more around this time of day. It's just the way of the world, and I'm not going to be too ruffled by that, because the last thing NS' development needs is panic.
Independently from that, I'd like to point out that I've still got admin privileges on these boards, so if your decide to flame a fellow member (you know who you are), you'll reap the consequences.
I'm pretty sure there are some important aspects to the game that need overhauling and are simply being put to one side for "Source" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pulsar
Game Current Players Current Servers Player Minutes / Month
TeamFortress Classic 1,168 645 33.089 million
Natural Selection 892 414 36.125 million
I haven't played NS for while, but it's been because of Guild Wars (best online RPG ever, BTW), not BF2. I don't even really want to play an FPS that has "realistic" weapons. If you have to stand still to have accuracy and you can be killed extremely quickly and extreme range, then it's not my idea of fun.
Then why do you have a topic about how your bullets don't register? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah, that one's pretty interesting. Note that it happened literally without of any bigger PR. Pretty impressive.
Then why do you have a topic about how your bullets don't register? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The bullets go where he is shooting - whether or not they hit is a different matter.
Then why do you have a topic about how your bullets don't register? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The bullets go where he is shooting - whether or not they hit is a different matter. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was typing that then you went and said it first ;X
I just read your mind. (Not much in there BTW...) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->