SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2005
Vac has not been updated for 8 months now, there are over 30 working multihacks.
CD is also not beeing updated frequently enough anymore (not enough/active enough Developers anymore) - and if so, after 3 days there are new disablers out. Well, thats how it was till now - they say CD 4.30 won't be that easy to get around anymore. I won't stop hoping that CD will get that good & effective again as it always was in the past <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
HLGuard helps to catch alot of Punks though, since it has heuristic ways of detections that don't require updates. The new autoupdate feature of the Alias Scanning is also nice. Unfortunately two of it's mainfeatures are not compatible with NS (yet, the NS team is currently working on a solution with the HLG developers) and it takes <b>a lot</b> of CPU power from the Server when full enabled.
Something that i also can recommend is the <a href='http://www.steambans.com' target='_blank'>Steambans</a> blacklist.
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-the hole+May 12 2005, 09:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the hole @ May 12 2005, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm banned from these servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are Steambans blacklisted?
Well, they have very high proof requirements. Only Demo with status in console recorded + Screenshot from status in console are accepted. A demo is beeing reviewed by 3 Admins from the Steambans Staff until a Steamid is banned - of course only if all 3 are sure thats a Cheater on the Demo. If there is any doubt they won't ban. These were the old proof requirements - the new ones are even stricter. <a href='http://www.steambans.com/forums.php?fid=2&tid=91' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/forums.php?fid=2&tid=91</a> <a href='http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=guide_ban' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=guide_ban</a> <a href='http://www.steambans.com/faq.php' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/faq.php</a>
However you can protest your ban here: <a href='http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=protest_ban' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=protest_ban</a>
You can also request a copy of the demo you were banned for.
<!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 12 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 12 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ns is a hackers paradise as it stands, and a few to (moderate) amount of, "high skill" players are medium skill + esp, i could name a few offhand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+Mar 10 2005, 08:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Mar 10 2005, 08:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It looks like there's a new “easy to use” hook out for Natural Selection. In the last 10 days I banned 7 people because of obvious use of aimbot. Comparing to only 12 banned cheaters since the server is up (1+ year) I would say that’s high increase of cheating.
Any admin sharing the same experience? Any information about a possible new hook for Natural Selection? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have demos of these alledged cheaters? Or any other evidence other than people getting owned?
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Thats why I stay on servers who know me. Imagine, you go on a server you are never on, get banned. tehy also do steambans and 3 ppl who know jack about NS deside that you cheated. FTL..
no.. I will stick to regular servers. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Get the odd cheater every now and thenonce in a while on my server but not many the worse was when i was supposed to ban a cheater i have all ban commands bound to a key so i just have to press player number and i pressed to at the same time and banned to ppl rathe rthan just 1 .
The only problem was i still dunno who the other guy i banned was <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-spinviper+May 12 2005, 10:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spinviper @ May 12 2005, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 12 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 12 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ns is a hackers paradise as it stands, and a few to (moderate) amount of, "high skill" players are medium skill + esp, i could name a few offhand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right]
I can´t say I have noticed any increase in the last month. I think you were just unlucky. As for the new "Hook" I´m sure it´s just the same old players trying it out with new keys (they seem to have an endless supply of them keys). Don´t worry about it.
My real problem is the latest craving for evidence. I determine that someone hax and ban him and the crowd moans about evidence. It´s a full time job some weeks. Server logs, ban logs and demo storage with dates and names and whatnot. We provide a service here guys, so bear with us and not so much of the unfair treatment please. Life is not fair and we do make mistakes sometimes. I try to make a good call everytime though.
I can´t say I have noticed any increase in the last month. I think you were just unlucky. As for the new "Hook" I´m sure it´s just the same old players trying it out with new keys (they seem to have an endless supply of them keys). Don´t worry about it.
My real problem is the latest craving for evidence. I determine that someone hax and ban him and the crowd moans about evidence. It´s a full time job some weeks. Server logs, ban logs and demo storage with dates and names and whatnot. We provide a service here guys, so bear with us and not so much of the unfair treatment please. Life is not fair and we do make mistakes sometimes. I try to make a good call everytime though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually just a demo and a steamID is needed. The demo should be viewed as someone who is qualified i.e. someone who does not conform to eSocial pressure, and views the evidence as is, and someone who knows what seperates cheating from skill.
Its not unreasonable to ask for evidence, but of course if its your server, you can ban them for whatever you wish. Just be honest with the ban, and don't try to make it out to be something that it is not (i.e. banning someone for cheating, when they are just better than the players on your server).
<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dihard+Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dihard @ Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How come still so few servers use Cheating-Death?? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine.
<!--QuoteBegin-RBS+May 13 2005, 08:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RBS @ May 13 2005, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dihard+Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dihard @ Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How come still so few servers use Cheating-Death?? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> While this is true, the "war" against the cheaters can only minimize the amount of cheaters, not eliminate them.
The problem is cheat makers can develop a counter for the patch released by valve or united admins. They usually do this within a few hours so they claim. Cheating-Death does not update as much as the cheat makers do, which is why there can be an influx of cheaters. In order to minimize the cheaters, the anti-cheat team must develop anti-cheats as fast as the cheats come out, which seems to be at the moment unreasonable.
Another issue is that how effective is the updated version of Cheating Death. Does a new release stop ALL previously made cheats? If so, how long will the patch last if it is obselete?
Cheating Death is a worthy effort but it doesn't really make that much of a difference. An example I will use are the txt guys, because they are a good example
They were challenged by a newb community to play a game on their server with cheating death on and admins spectating. The txt crew mop the floor with who/whatever was on the server. Can we conclude that txt doesn't cheat from this evidence? No. As far as we know the cheating death could have provided a false sense of security of the inexperienced admins, and they used that for the criteria of which to based the cheats on. By this evidence, we cannot conclude anything other than that 1)txt slaughtered these guys, 2)cheating death was on the server 3)cheating death may have influenced/primed the inexperienced admins into making that judgement.
I have personally specced txt, and I know they DO NOT cheat. I've seen these guys tear apart the inexperienced, and get beat themselves. I can tell that they do not use an aimbot, or wallhack, and that their teamwork is very good. Careful observation by admins, again without eSocial Pressure can make this same determination without the use of obselete cheating counter measures such as Cheating Death.
I used txt as an example because of how cheating death can influence outcomes of admins. They would have played legitily with it on, or without it, and would have done just as well.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+May 13 2005, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ May 13 2005, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-RBS+May 13 2005, 08:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RBS @ May 13 2005, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dihard+Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dihard @ Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How come still so few servers use Cheating-Death?? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> While this is true, the "war" against the cheaters can only minimize the amount of cheaters, not eliminate them.
The problem is cheat makers can develop a counter for the patch released by valve or united admins. They usually do this within a few hours so they claim. Cheating-Death does not update as much as the cheat makers do, which is why there can be an influx of cheaters. In order to minimize the cheaters, the anti-cheat team must develop anti-cheats as fast as the cheats come out, which seems to be at the moment unreasonable.
Another issue is that how effective is the updated version of Cheating Death. Does a new release stop ALL previously made cheats? If so, how long will the patch last if it is obselete?
Cheating Death is a worthy effort but it doesn't really make that much of a difference. An example I will use are the txt guys, because they are a good example
They were challenged by a newb community to play a game on their server with cheating death on and admins spectating. The txt crew mop the floor with who/whatever was on the server. Can we conclude that txt doesn't cheat from this evidence? No. As far as we know the cheating death could have provided a false sense of security of the inexperienced admins, and they used that for the criteria of which to based the cheats on. By this evidence, we cannot conclude anything other than that 1)txt slaughtered these guys, 2)cheating death was on the server 3)cheating death may have influenced/primed the inexperienced admins into making that judgement.
I have personally specced txt, and I know they DO NOT cheat. I've seen these guys tear apart the inexperienced, and get beat themselves. I can tell that they do not use an aimbot, or wallhack, and that their teamwork is very good. Careful observation by admins, again without eSocial Pressure can make this same determination without the use of obselete cheating counter measures such as Cheating Death.
I used txt as an example because of how cheating death can influence outcomes of admins. They would have played legitily with it on, or without it, and would have done just as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Anti cheat programs make it more difficult to download working cheats, force cheat coders to put more effort into making them, minimize random cheat accusations against legitimate players, and every once in a while get someone banned who legitimately deserves it.
They don't win the war, no, but they sure ease the effects on the innocents.
For the record only one member of .txt even scripts, and it isn't teppla.
<!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 13 2005, 03:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 13 2005, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-spinviper+May 12 2005, 10:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spinviper @ May 12 2005, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 12 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 12 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ns is a hackers paradise as it stands, and a few to (moderate) amount of, "high skill" players are medium skill + esp, i could name a few offhand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow.... How long have you been playing NS? Remember, people can HEAR the footsteps of the skulks.
<!--QuoteBegin-spinviper+May 13 2005, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spinviper @ May 13 2005, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 13 2005, 03:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 13 2005, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-spinviper+May 12 2005, 10:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spinviper @ May 12 2005, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 12 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 12 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ns is a hackers paradise as it stands, and a few to (moderate) amount of, "high skill" players are medium skill + esp, i could name a few offhand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow.... How long have you been playing NS? Remember, people can HEAR the footsteps of the skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1.04 and i played with a few of them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+May 13 2005, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ May 13 2005, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+May 13 2005, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ May 13 2005, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-RBS+May 13 2005, 08:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RBS @ May 13 2005, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Mar 10 2005, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dihard+Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dihard @ Mar 10 2005, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How come still so few servers use Cheating-Death?? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> While this is true, the "war" against the cheaters can only minimize the amount of cheaters, not eliminate them.
The problem is cheat makers can develop a counter for the patch released by valve or united admins. They usually do this within a few hours so they claim. Cheating-Death does not update as much as the cheat makers do, which is why there can be an influx of cheaters. In order to minimize the cheaters, the anti-cheat team must develop anti-cheats as fast as the cheats come out, which seems to be at the moment unreasonable.
Another issue is that how effective is the updated version of Cheating Death. Does a new release stop ALL previously made cheats? If so, how long will the patch last if it is obselete?
Cheating Death is a worthy effort but it doesn't really make that much of a difference. An example I will use are the txt guys, because they are a good example
They were challenged by a newb community to play a game on their server with cheating death on and admins spectating. The txt crew mop the floor with who/whatever was on the server. Can we conclude that txt doesn't cheat from this evidence? No. As far as we know the cheating death could have provided a false sense of security of the inexperienced admins, and they used that for the criteria of which to based the cheats on. By this evidence, we cannot conclude anything other than that 1)txt slaughtered these guys, 2)cheating death was on the server 3)cheating death may have influenced/primed the inexperienced admins into making that judgement.
I have personally specced txt, and I know they DO NOT cheat. I've seen these guys tear apart the inexperienced, and get beat themselves. I can tell that they do not use an aimbot, or wallhack, and that their teamwork is very good. Careful observation by admins, again without eSocial Pressure can make this same determination without the use of obselete cheating counter measures such as Cheating Death.
I used txt as an example because of how cheating death can influence outcomes of admins. They would have played legitily with it on, or without it, and would have done just as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Anti cheat programs make it more difficult to download working cheats, force cheat coders to put more effort into making them, minimize random cheat accusations against legitimate players, and every once in a while get someone banned who legitimately deserves it.
They don't win the war, no, but they sure ease the effects on the innocents.
For the record only one member of .txt even scripts, and it isn't teppla. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong. There are probably single versions of cheats that can bypass such programs easily for extended periods of time. I seem to recall hearing about one such cheat that bypassed VAC using the same method for at least 6 months. The only thing any anti-cheat software has been successful at is creating a false sense of security, people think their server is secure because they have anti-cheat software running.
The bottom line is that there are two kinds of cheaters, people who know how to hide them from detection and those that just download a random cheat and hope they slip by. 99.9% of caught players probably come from the latter of the two. The only way to catch the people in group one is to assume nothing and spectate them and hope they mess up. The most important part of that being that you assume nothing.
If that is the case, then it seems no convient programs can be used to counter cheats, because A)it doesn't stop ALL previous made cheats and B)the ones that they do stop can be patched to work again.
The only effective method then it seems is to have admins to make the decisions.
This is a flawed process because often emotions are put in such as anger, jealousy and frustration, on either the players or the admins themselves. If the players experience those emotions against someone who may not be cheating, that player along with other negatively affected regulars on the server will put social pressure on the admins to ban whoever it is, even if they are not cheating.
The admins themselves can just have their powertrip and ban whoever they feel like for "cheating" whereas a lot admins are ignorant of competitive players and what they are capable of.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is a flawed process because often emotions are put in such as anger, jealousy and frustration, on either the players or the admins themselves. If the players experience those emotions against someone who may not be cheating, that player along with other negatively affected regulars on the server will put social pressure on the admins to ban whoever it is, even if they are not cheating.
The admins themselves can just have their powertrip and ban whoever they feel like for "cheating" whereas a lot admins are ignorant of competitive players and what they are capable of. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why I called it a full time job. Especially if it´s a regular player and you don´t know what to make of a demo (Hack, luck, skill?) So you have to make another and another until you are sure. If its just some casual visitor then you can write things of as a fluke and leave it be. But if it is a regular player then you are bound to get a lot of heat if you determine that he infact is hacking. *sigh*
<!--QuoteBegin-RBS+May 15 2005, 12:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RBS @ May 15 2005, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+May 13 2005, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ May 13 2005, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anti cheat programs make it more difficult to download working cheats, force cheat coders to put more effort into making them, minimize random cheat accusations against legitimate players, and every once in a while get someone banned who legitimately deserves it.
They don't win the war, no, but they sure ease the effects on the innocents.
For the record only one member of .txt even scripts, and it isn't teppla. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong. There are probably single versions of cheats that can bypass such programs easily for extended periods of time. I seem to recall hearing about one such cheat that bypassed VAC using the same method for at least 6 months. The only thing any anti-cheat software has been successful at is creating a false sense of security, people think their server is secure because they have anti-cheat software running.
The bottom line is that there are two kinds of cheaters, people who know how to hide them from detection and those that just download a random cheat and hope they slip by. 99.9% of caught players probably come from the latter of the two. The only way to catch the people in group one is to assume nothing and spectate them and hope they mess up. The most important part of that being that you assume nothing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You just agreed with me <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I never said anti cheat programs make cheating impossible, I just said it makes it take more effort, and in doing so makes cheating on servers that attempt to block you less apealing.
Its the same thing as break and entry. Thiefs can get through elaborate locking systems with the right tools and the right ammout of work, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth locking your door, as most theifs will just realize your door is locked and move on to somewhere that's less of a hassle.
Sure it doesn't stop everyone, but it makes offences more far and few between, so admins have less overall work, and you have a smaller total number of games ruined by hackers.
We spec our cheaters very carefully before banning them, and even that has to go through the proper channels. Cheaters used to be non-existant on my server. We had one this one time, but we never saw any more. Now it seems in the last 3 months we've banned so many aimbotters and speed hackers. Its getting crazy.
<!--QuoteBegin-N Recoup+May 15 2005, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (N Recoup @ May 15 2005, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've also seen an increase in cheaters.
We spec our cheaters very carefully before banning them, and even that has to go through the proper channels. Cheaters used to be non-existant on my server. We had one this one time, but we never saw any more. Now it seems in the last 3 months we've banned so many aimbotters and speed hackers. Its getting crazy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src='http://swiftspear.0x01a4.com/Img/Emotes/ns-rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 13 2005, 03:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 13 2005, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-spinviper+May 12 2005, 10:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spinviper @ May 12 2005, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+May 12 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ May 12 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ns is a hackers paradise as it stands, and a few to (moderate) amount of, "high skill" players are medium skill + esp, i could name a few offhand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to see your "list".
<!--QuoteBegin-N Recoup+May 15 2005, 07:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (N Recoup @ May 15 2005, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You doubt my claims? Go have a word with the admins yourself.
I dont kid when I say this. The ones that are usually funny are the ones with odd names that dont seem like real screen names, such as this:
a7f8s0g8e9c-g7ew6q0f8a7s
Spec them if you see someone like that. Every time I've seen that it was an Aimbotter.
Also watch for people who toggle hack. If they get suspicious and think someone is watching them, they toggle them off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya, I should go ask pumpinator how many aimbotters you have caught.
Comments
CD is also not beeing updated frequently enough anymore (not enough/active enough Developers anymore) - and if so, after 3 days there are new disablers out. Well, thats how it was till now - they say CD 4.30 won't be that easy to get around anymore. I won't stop hoping that CD will get that good & effective again as it always was in the past <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
HLGuard helps to catch alot of Punks though, since it has heuristic ways of detections that don't require updates.
The new autoupdate feature of the Alias Scanning is also nice. Unfortunately two of it's mainfeatures are not compatible with NS (yet, the NS team is currently working on a solution with the HLG developers) and it takes <b>a lot</b> of CPU power from the Server when full enabled.
Something that i also can recommend is the <a href='http://www.steambans.com' target='_blank'>Steambans</a> blacklist.
You are Steambans blacklisted?
Well, they have very high proof requirements. Only Demo with status in console recorded + Screenshot from status in console are accepted. A demo is beeing reviewed by 3 Admins from the Steambans Staff until a Steamid is banned - of course only if all 3 are sure thats a Cheater on the Demo. If there is any doubt they won't ban.
These were the old proof requirements - the new ones are even stricter.
<a href='http://www.steambans.com/forums.php?fid=2&tid=91' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/forums.php?fid=2&tid=91</a>
<a href='http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=guide_ban' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=guide_ban</a>
<a href='http://www.steambans.com/faq.php' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/faq.php</a>
However you can protest your ban here:
<a href='http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=protest_ban' target='_blank'>http://www.steambans.com/info.php?page=protest_ban</a>
You can also request a copy of the demo you were banned for.
The screenshot is easier still...
Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao.
Any admin sharing the same experience? Any information about a possible new hook for Natural Selection? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have demos of these alledged cheaters? Or any other evidence other than people getting owned?
Imagine, you go on a server you are never on, get banned.
tehy also do steambans and 3 ppl who know jack about NS deside that you cheated.
FTL..
no.. I will stick to regular servers. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only problem was i still dunno who the other guy i banned was <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right]
I can´t say I have noticed any increase in the last month. I think you were just unlucky. As for the new "Hook" I´m sure it´s just the same old players trying it out with new keys (they seem to have an endless supply of them keys). Don´t worry about it.
My real problem is the latest craving for evidence. I determine that someone hax and ban him and the crowd moans about evidence. It´s a full time job some weeks. Server logs, ban logs and demo storage with dates and names and whatnot. We provide a service here guys, so bear with us and not so much of the unfair treatment please. Life is not fair and we do make mistakes sometimes. I try to make a good call everytime though.
I can´t say I have noticed any increase in the last month. I think you were just unlucky. As for the new "Hook" I´m sure it´s just the same old players trying it out with new keys (they seem to have an endless supply of them keys). Don´t worry about it.
My real problem is the latest craving for evidence. I determine that someone hax and ban him and the crowd moans about evidence. It´s a full time job some weeks. Server logs, ban logs and demo storage with dates and names and whatnot. We provide a service here guys, so bear with us and not so much of the unfair treatment please. Life is not fair and we do make mistakes sometimes. I try to make a good call everytime though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually just a demo and a steamID is needed. The demo should be viewed as someone who is qualified i.e. someone who does not conform to eSocial pressure, and views the evidence as is, and someone who knows what seperates cheating from skill.
Its not unreasonable to ask for evidence, but of course if its your server, you can ban them for whatever you wish. Just be honest with the ban, and don't try to make it out to be something that it is not (i.e. banning someone for cheating, when they are just better than the players on your server).
Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine.
Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
While this is true, the "war" against the cheaters can only minimize the amount of cheaters, not eliminate them.
The problem is cheat makers can develop a counter for the patch released by valve or united admins. They usually do this within a few hours so they claim. Cheating-Death does not update as much as the cheat makers do, which is why there can be an influx of cheaters. In order to minimize the cheaters, the anti-cheat team must develop anti-cheats as fast as the cheats come out, which seems to be at the moment unreasonable.
Another issue is that how effective is the updated version of Cheating Death. Does a new release stop ALL previously made cheats? If so, how long will the patch last if it is obselete?
Cheating Death is a worthy effort but it doesn't really make that much of a difference. An example I will use are the txt guys, because they are a good example
They were challenged by a newb community to play a game on their server with cheating death on and admins spectating. The txt crew mop the floor with who/whatever was on the server. Can we conclude that txt doesn't cheat from this evidence? No. As far as we know the cheating death could have provided a false sense of security of the inexperienced admins, and they used that for the criteria of which to based the cheats on. By this evidence, we cannot conclude anything other than that 1)txt slaughtered these guys, 2)cheating death was on the server 3)cheating death may have influenced/primed the inexperienced admins into making that judgement.
I have personally specced txt, and I know they DO NOT cheat. I've seen these guys tear apart the inexperienced, and get beat themselves. I can tell that they do not use an aimbot, or wallhack, and that their teamwork is very good. Careful observation by admins, again without eSocial Pressure can make this same determination without the use of obselete cheating counter measures such as Cheating Death.
I used txt as an example because of how cheating death can influence outcomes of admins. They would have played legitily with it on, or without it, and would have done just as well.
Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While this is true, the "war" against the cheaters can only minimize the amount of cheaters, not eliminate them.
The problem is cheat makers can develop a counter for the patch released by valve or united admins. They usually do this within a few hours so they claim. Cheating-Death does not update as much as the cheat makers do, which is why there can be an influx of cheaters. In order to minimize the cheaters, the anti-cheat team must develop anti-cheats as fast as the cheats come out, which seems to be at the moment unreasonable.
Another issue is that how effective is the updated version of Cheating Death. Does a new release stop ALL previously made cheats? If so, how long will the patch last if it is obselete?
Cheating Death is a worthy effort but it doesn't really make that much of a difference. An example I will use are the txt guys, because they are a good example
They were challenged by a newb community to play a game on their server with cheating death on and admins spectating. The txt crew mop the floor with who/whatever was on the server. Can we conclude that txt doesn't cheat from this evidence? No. As far as we know the cheating death could have provided a false sense of security of the inexperienced admins, and they used that for the criteria of which to based the cheats on. By this evidence, we cannot conclude anything other than that 1)txt slaughtered these guys, 2)cheating death was on the server 3)cheating death may have influenced/primed the inexperienced admins into making that judgement.
I have personally specced txt, and I know they DO NOT cheat. I've seen these guys tear apart the inexperienced, and get beat themselves. I can tell that they do not use an aimbot, or wallhack, and that their teamwork is very good. Careful observation by admins, again without eSocial Pressure can make this same determination without the use of obselete cheating counter measures such as Cheating Death.
I used txt as an example because of how cheating death can influence outcomes of admins. They would have played legitily with it on, or without it, and would have done just as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anti cheat programs make it more difficult to download working cheats, force cheat coders to put more effort into making them, minimize random cheat accusations against legitimate players, and every once in a while get someone banned who legitimately deserves it.
They don't win the war, no, but they sure ease the effects on the innocents.
For the record only one member of .txt even scripts, and it isn't teppla.
Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow.... How long have you been playing NS? Remember, people can HEAR the footsteps of the skulks.
Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow.... How long have you been playing NS? Remember, people can HEAR the footsteps of the skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.04 and i played with a few of them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Cheating death doesn't work. There, I said it. There are just too many programs running around that can spoof cheating death. The only use for it is giving pubbies a false sense of security. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've just described every anti-cheat program ever created for anything on the HL engine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While this is true, the "war" against the cheaters can only minimize the amount of cheaters, not eliminate them.
The problem is cheat makers can develop a counter for the patch released by valve or united admins. They usually do this within a few hours so they claim. Cheating-Death does not update as much as the cheat makers do, which is why there can be an influx of cheaters. In order to minimize the cheaters, the anti-cheat team must develop anti-cheats as fast as the cheats come out, which seems to be at the moment unreasonable.
Another issue is that how effective is the updated version of Cheating Death. Does a new release stop ALL previously made cheats? If so, how long will the patch last if it is obselete?
Cheating Death is a worthy effort but it doesn't really make that much of a difference. An example I will use are the txt guys, because they are a good example
They were challenged by a newb community to play a game on their server with cheating death on and admins spectating. The txt crew mop the floor with who/whatever was on the server. Can we conclude that txt doesn't cheat from this evidence? No. As far as we know the cheating death could have provided a false sense of security of the inexperienced admins, and they used that for the criteria of which to based the cheats on. By this evidence, we cannot conclude anything other than that 1)txt slaughtered these guys, 2)cheating death was on the server 3)cheating death may have influenced/primed the inexperienced admins into making that judgement.
I have personally specced txt, and I know they DO NOT cheat. I've seen these guys tear apart the inexperienced, and get beat themselves. I can tell that they do not use an aimbot, or wallhack, and that their teamwork is very good. Careful observation by admins, again without eSocial Pressure can make this same determination without the use of obselete cheating counter measures such as Cheating Death.
I used txt as an example because of how cheating death can influence outcomes of admins. They would have played legitily with it on, or without it, and would have done just as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anti cheat programs make it more difficult to download working cheats, force cheat coders to put more effort into making them, minimize random cheat accusations against legitimate players, and every once in a while get someone banned who legitimately deserves it.
They don't win the war, no, but they sure ease the effects on the innocents.
For the record only one member of .txt even scripts, and it isn't teppla. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. There are probably single versions of cheats that can bypass such programs easily for extended periods of time. I seem to recall hearing about one such cheat that bypassed VAC using the same method for at least 6 months. The only thing any anti-cheat software has been successful at is creating a false sense of security, people think their server is secure because they have anti-cheat software running.
The bottom line is that there are two kinds of cheaters, people who know how to hide them from detection and those that just download a random cheat and hope they slip by. 99.9% of caught players probably come from the latter of the two. The only way to catch the people in group one is to assume nothing and spectate them and hope they mess up. The most important part of that being that you assume nothing.
The only effective method then it seems is to have admins to make the decisions.
This is a flawed process because often emotions are put in such as anger, jealousy and frustration, on either the players or the admins themselves. If the players experience those emotions against someone who may not be cheating, that player along with other negatively affected regulars on the server will put social pressure on the admins to ban whoever it is, even if they are not cheating.
The admins themselves can just have their powertrip and ban whoever they feel like for "cheating" whereas a lot admins are ignorant of competitive players and what they are capable of.
The admins themselves can just have their powertrip and ban whoever they feel like for "cheating" whereas a lot admins are ignorant of competitive players and what they are capable of. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why I called it a full time job. Especially if it´s a regular player and you don´t know what to make of a demo (Hack, luck, skill?)
So you have to make another and another until you are sure. If its just some casual visitor then you can write things of as a fluke and leave it be. But if it is a regular player then you are bound to get a lot of heat if you determine that he infact is hacking. *sigh*
Anti cheat programs make it more difficult to download working cheats, force cheat coders to put more effort into making them, minimize random cheat accusations against legitimate players, and every once in a while get someone banned who legitimately deserves it.
They don't win the war, no, but they sure ease the effects on the innocents.
For the record only one member of .txt even scripts, and it isn't teppla. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. There are probably single versions of cheats that can bypass such programs easily for extended periods of time. I seem to recall hearing about one such cheat that bypassed VAC using the same method for at least 6 months. The only thing any anti-cheat software has been successful at is creating a false sense of security, people think their server is secure because they have anti-cheat software running.
The bottom line is that there are two kinds of cheaters, people who know how to hide them from detection and those that just download a random cheat and hope they slip by. 99.9% of caught players probably come from the latter of the two. The only way to catch the people in group one is to assume nothing and spectate them and hope they mess up. The most important part of that being that you assume nothing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just agreed with me <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I never said anti cheat programs make cheating impossible, I just said it makes it take more effort, and in doing so makes cheating on servers that attempt to block you less apealing.
Its the same thing as break and entry. Thiefs can get through elaborate locking systems with the right tools and the right ammout of work, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth locking your door, as most theifs will just realize your door is locked and move on to somewhere that's less of a hassle.
Sure it doesn't stop everyone, but it makes offences more far and few between, so admins have less overall work, and you have a smaller total number of games ruined by hackers.
We spec our cheaters very carefully before banning them, and even that has to go through the proper channels. Cheaters used to be non-existant on my server. We had one this one time, but we never saw any more. Now it seems in the last 3 months we've banned so many aimbotters and speed hackers. Its getting crazy.
We spec our cheaters very carefully before banning them, and even that has to go through the proper channels. Cheaters used to be non-existant on my server. We had one this one time, but we never saw any more. Now it seems in the last 3 months we've banned so many aimbotters and speed hackers. Its getting crazy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://swiftspear.0x01a4.com/Img/Emotes/ns-rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<a href='http://www.online-evolution.org/' target='_blank'>http://www.online-evolution.org/</a>
I dont kid when I say this. The ones that are usually funny are the ones with odd names that dont seem like real screen names, such as this:
a7f8s0g8e9c-g7ew6q0f8a7s
Spec them if you see someone like that. Every time I've seen that it was an Aimbotter.
Also watch for people who toggle hack. If they get suspicious and think someone is watching them, they toggle them off.
Oh... don't tell me... Teppla.txt? roflmao. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he's some random ****, don't care about him
oddly enough one of them posted on this page, unless they've changed [yeah right] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to see your "list".
<a href='http://www.online-evolution.org/' target='_blank'>http://www.online-evolution.org/</a>
I dont kid when I say this. The ones that are usually funny are the ones with odd names that dont seem like real screen names, such as this:
a7f8s0g8e9c-g7ew6q0f8a7s
Spec them if you see someone like that. Every time I've seen that it was an Aimbotter.
Also watch for people who toggle hack. If they get suspicious and think someone is watching them, they toggle them off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya, I should go ask pumpinator how many aimbotters you have caught.