Yeah, i would say, too, that 3rd hive up should be an instand winning condition of some sort for aliens! Maybe a ping of death for rines or some sort of countdown until the containment is breached and the bacterium becomes uncontrollable. On the same side there should be a nerf for 2nd hive aliens, sot that there are more fights over the existing hive, while the third one is building. So its a real struggle for the marines, since they face their impending death! But a struggle they can win, not like now a slowly painful death like it is now.
The game should climax towards the end : Baserush and one team daramtically trying to defend or the sturggle over the third hive not like the boring stalemate endings we have currently. If the end of a round would be the most fantasic part of the game all players would go happy in the next round.
I ahve to admit it its currently like that in combat and i think thats one more point why, many people prefer it, Because each rounds ends in a dramatic climax, may it be JP rush or whatever. NS is sadly not like this,
But back ontopic: Hell, i´d even give the aliens their 3rd hive abilities at hive 2 (since 3 is instant win), but nerf them to some extend that they become playable. And since their abilities did increase their HP bonus at hive 2 should be negated. That way they had more diversity but have to play more like a team to win and secure the 3rd hive or crush teh marines. I would really like a solution like this, we would finally see abilities like Acidrocket or Webs in actual gameplay again!
"The game should climax towards the end : Baserush and one team daramtically trying to defend or the sturggle over the third hive not like the boring stalemate endings we have currently. If the end of a round would be the most fantasic part of the game all players would go happy in the next round."
Thats what I was saying. Now its just oh ok the aliens have 3 hives lets just sit in base or run all around the map aimlessly because there is nothing we could actually do to win. Its boring and it just drags the game on. But if the marines actually had a chance of coming back it would be more exciting from start to finish, not from start to 3rd hive. It just seems to me like NS is constantly changing more for aliens then marines, I mean just look at all the map remakes and all the extra vents and in and outs the aliens have now, compared to all the changes for marines, pretty much just a nice newer looking MS which dosn't really help at all. The closing doors where about the only thing that helped and they are gone now. Also look at all the dramatic changes that happen for aliens, free upgrades, better chambers, no 3 hive restrictions, devour, healing without dc chambers, the new blink system for fades, and all the dramatic changes for marines are, weaker sieges and distance, weaker weapons ( hmg no structure dmg gl reloading and clip, SG less bullets ), Jp's are nerfed, cat packs and gernades are about the only new thing added and they are both almost completly worthless, especially for the res and time. I keep seeing these huge dramatic changes happening for the aliens which are good and help them but not yet any for marines and as it stands aliens are completly domination marines. ( yeah I know marines get some little changes that are good just like aliens but I'm talking about the big things and marines ONLY get nerfed. )
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
edited May 2005
I think that if both teams are at the peak of their technology the game should still be balanced. That means aliens have 5 res points / all chambers / 3 hives / a couple of onos a couple of fades a lerk or 2 and xeno skulks and web gorges and marines have every upgrade possible 1/2 team in HA 1/2 JP , the game should still be balanced. And if this was to happen it should be a huge battle, may the better (clever) team win.
EDIT - and if both teams are equally as good, the game does pretty well at themoment actually, its not till you take down the 3rd hive and players start leaving the game gets unbalanced. (y)
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Note : This is where public play requires testing, not the experience of players. Why? Because as soon as 3rd hive goes up / MS loses an important structure, you start to see the usual (highly irritating, incidentally. If you can't face saying it to your teams face, don't say it at all) 'noob team' *player has left the server* behaviour.
It's not just childish, it also impacts on the team. They're one man down for however many seconds/minutes, they lose the res he was carrying in the case of aliens or in the case of a marine, the equipment/location he was holding.
This has more of an impact than people realise, and needs to be paid attention to. But we can't fix the community, and fixing the game because of the stupidity of a minority of players would be a mistake.
- Shockwave
Addendum : You can kill good Fades. The problem isn't they're impossible to kill, it's that they require a disproportionate amount of res/time to do so balanced against their 50 res cost. Fading needs to become easier to master, without capping the skill on the good Fades or giving them an advantage above & beyond their current impact.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+May 12 2005, 04:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ May 12 2005, 04:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In answer to the original question...
If I was playing an RTS and I had three town halls to your one, would <b>you</b> expect to win then? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well if town Halls were like Command Centers then yes. In C&C zerohour you start with 1 Command Center, Building a sencond one cost money, and time, and having two only gives you a back up, in case one dies, so your 3 Command Centers would give you about 3* window of safety, as only very skilled players with well timed attacks can take down 3 at once, assuming you don'y place them in a bad spot, like right next to my WarFactory.
The_CheatIt's a The Cheat!Join Date: 2003-11-19Member: 23191Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Eternaly Lost+May 13 2005, 05:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eternaly Lost @ May 13 2005, 05:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+May 12 2005, 04:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ May 12 2005, 04:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In answer to the original question...
If I was playing an RTS and I had three town halls to your one, would <b>you</b> expect to win then? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well if town Halls were like Command Centers then yes. In C&C zerohour you start with 1 Command Center, Building a sencond one cost money, and time, and having two only gives you a back up, in case one dies, so your 3 Command Centers would give you about 3* window of safety, as only very skilled players with well timed attacks can take down 3 at once, assuming you don'y place them in a bad spot, like right next to my WarFactory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Helps to have the game right. It's C&C Generals: Zero Hour. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When the Kharaa reach their third hive, they should be an almost unstoppable force, since they have reached "full power" in terms of the spread of the bacterium. Marines should only stand a fighting chance if they have *everything*, e.g. hand grenades (yeah, I know, useless, but it's just an example), catalysts, proto-tech, A3 and W3, MT, Phase tech, etc. Even then, I would say the odds should be somewhere around 40% chance for marines to make a comeback (and win.)
"Addendum : You can kill good Fades. The problem isn't they're impossible to kill, it's that they require a disproportionate amount of res/time to do so balanced against their 50 res cost. Fading needs to become easier to master, without capping the skill on the good Fades or giving them an advantage above & beyond their current impact."
Comments
Maybe a ping of death for rines or some sort of countdown until the containment is breached and the bacterium becomes uncontrollable.
On the same side there should be a nerf for 2nd hive aliens, sot that there are more fights over the existing hive, while the third one is building.
So its a real struggle for the marines, since they face their impending death!
But a struggle they can win, not like now a slowly painful death like it is now.
The game should climax towards the end : Baserush and one team daramtically trying to defend or the sturggle over the third hive
not like the boring stalemate endings we have currently.
If the end of a round would be the most fantasic part of the game all players would go happy in the next round.
I ahve to admit it its currently like that in combat and i think thats one more point why, many people prefer it,
Because each rounds ends in a dramatic climax, may it be JP rush or whatever.
NS is sadly not like this,
But back ontopic:
Hell, i´d even give the aliens their 3rd hive abilities at hive 2 (since 3 is instant win), but nerf them to some extend that they become playable.
And since their abilities did increase their HP bonus at hive 2 should be negated. That way they had more diversity but have to play more like a team to win and secure the 3rd hive or crush teh marines.
I would really like a solution like this, we would finally see abilities like Acidrocket or Webs in actual gameplay again!
Just think of it!
Yeah, lol. Nowadays all alien wins are accidental. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
not like the boring stalemate endings we have currently.
If the end of a round would be the most fantasic part of the game all players would go happy in the next round."
Thats what I was saying. Now its just oh ok the aliens have 3 hives lets just sit in base or run all around the map aimlessly because there is nothing we could actually do to win. Its boring and it just drags the game on. But if the marines actually had a chance of coming back it would be more exciting from start to finish, not from start to 3rd hive. It just seems to me like NS is constantly changing more for aliens then marines, I mean just look at all the map remakes and all the extra vents and in and outs the aliens have now, compared to all the changes for marines, pretty much just a nice newer looking MS which dosn't really help at all. The closing doors where about the only thing that helped and they are gone now. Also look at all the dramatic changes that happen for aliens, free upgrades, better chambers, no 3 hive restrictions, devour, healing without dc chambers, the new blink system for fades, and all the dramatic changes for marines are, weaker sieges and distance, weaker weapons ( hmg no structure dmg gl reloading and clip, SG less bullets ), Jp's are nerfed, cat packs and gernades are about the only new thing added and they are both almost completly worthless, especially for the res and time. I keep seeing these huge dramatic changes happening for the aliens which are good and help them but not yet any for marines and as it stands aliens are completly domination marines. ( yeah I know marines get some little changes that are good just like aliens but I'm talking about the big things and marines ONLY get nerfed. )
Whats even worst is when they have 2 or 3 good fades.
That means aliens have 5 res points / all chambers / 3 hives / a couple of onos a couple of fades a lerk or 2 and xeno skulks and web gorges and marines have every upgrade possible 1/2 team in HA 1/2 JP , the game should still be balanced.
And if this was to happen it should be a huge battle, may the better (clever) team win.
EDIT - and if both teams are equally as good, the game does pretty well at themoment actually, its not till you take down the 3rd hive and players start leaving the game gets unbalanced. (y)
It's not just childish, it also impacts on the team. They're one man down for however many seconds/minutes, they lose the res he was carrying in the case of aliens or in the case of a marine, the equipment/location he was holding.
This has more of an impact than people realise, and needs to be paid attention to. But we can't fix the community, and fixing the game because of the stupidity of a minority of players would be a mistake.
- Shockwave
Addendum : You can kill good Fades. The problem isn't they're impossible to kill, it's that they require a disproportionate amount of res/time to do so balanced against their 50 res cost. Fading needs to become easier to master, without capping the skill on the good Fades or giving them an advantage above & beyond their current impact.
If I was playing an RTS and I had three town halls to your one, would <b>you</b> expect to win then? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if town Halls were like Command Centers then yes. In C&C zerohour you start with 1 Command Center, Building a sencond one cost money, and time, and having two only gives you a back up, in case one dies, so your 3 Command Centers would give you about 3* window of safety, as only very skilled players with well timed attacks can take down 3 at once, assuming you don'y place them in a bad spot, like right next to my WarFactory.
If I was playing an RTS and I had three town halls to your one, would <b>you</b> expect to win then? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if town Halls were like Command Centers then yes. In C&C zerohour you start with 1 Command Center, Building a sencond one cost money, and time, and having two only gives you a back up, in case one dies, so your 3 Command Centers would give you about 3* window of safety, as only very skilled players with well timed attacks can take down 3 at once, assuming you don'y place them in a bad spot, like right next to my WarFactory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Helps to have the game right. It's C&C Generals: Zero Hour. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When the Kharaa reach their third hive, they should be an almost unstoppable force, since they have reached "full power" in terms of the spread of the bacterium. Marines should only stand a fighting chance if they have *everything*, e.g. hand grenades (yeah, I know, useless, but it's just an example), catalysts, proto-tech, A3 and W3, MT, Phase tech, etc. Even then, I would say the odds should be somewhere around 40% chance for marines to make a comeback (and win.)
You put it perfectly.