Structure Blocking
MrBen
ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Members
ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Members
<div class="IPBDescription">illegal or not</div> We all know there are guidelines on this but i was wondering what everyone else felt on that matter. Should marines be allowed to structure block? If so why so, if not why not. I'd like to have this dicussion because of recent events that have happened including being banned from a public server and having a team leave after we placed structures to stop their fades entering cargo. CAL says it's fine, other leagues say it's okay if you're not blocking exits but rather just the doorway, but where do we draw the line on when we're randomly placing in a doorway and when we're trying to stop something getting into a room.
And... GO!
EDIT: I imagine an early lock on this but meh, seems like a good discussion to me!
And... GO!
EDIT: I imagine an early lock on this but meh, seems like a good discussion to me!
Comments
a fade cant react to blocking, it just happens to fast and done correct nearly guaranty a kill
but when you block a doorway in advance i see it as legal as long as you dont overdo it
...which is why only rts can be placed on nodes. Personally, I think if a comm wants to waste res on a CC which can be used for shotguns/upgrades, that's fine. Blocking a retreating onos is a valid strategy, and I don't see how it's "exploiting" anything.
20 res could drop 2 more shotguns which has about as good a chance as killing a fade as a cc block. Fades can pretty much always get around cc blocks.
As for the onos, you just have to be careful, and pick your battles. Don't go where you can get messed up by a cc unless you have adren and stomp.
<a href='http://www.massrelaw.org/glossary/d.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.massrelaw.org/glossary/d.htm</a>
ats a building right ?
DOOR - A sliding or hinged structure, covering an opening to a cupboard, closet, room, building, etc. May be used as an entrance or exit. Usually constructed of wood, glass, or metal, depending on its structure.
so many people say ok as long as a skulk can get passed but what if there are no skulks ? i'd say its ok yo a point as long as you can attack with spores past it but what if the rines are all in HA ?
its a dirty tactic. Still a tactic but not one i would use or condon it at all i mean an old tactic i had that worked well if you had a good rine team a long time ago was to disble alien rts near there hive with cc at the start of game.
i'll have to whatch the demos of the match to give you my say on if it was/was not under hand.
blocking small doorways = no
anything else = who cares, waste of res
Of course, you could always just use recyclable TFs to block instead--but they're not quite as big (easier to jump over), and they only take 1250(?) damage to wipe out instead of 5000.
Well CC blocking sucks, because it just completely removes the practicality of onos late game vs high res marines... 2 or even 1 hmg with a doulbe cc block kills an onos EVERY time.
On the other hand:
Onos in matches/scrims really aren't very skill based. Sure you have to be able to aim gore/devour, bhop (silent) but there is no speedy movement (i.e. blink, flying, leap.) So really i dont think it's skill based enough to warrant illegalizing structure blocking. And in the case that rines don thave eonugh res, onos are still powerful game enders. that 6 res to drop a cc and recycle is actually 20 res right now, which could be 2 sgs or a hmg/welder
In summation: Balance the game by playing it. You shouldnt' contemplate aspects like this, as it would severly adjust the balance of the game. It's good for marines to have something to spend on when they have 3/3 and 6 ha hmgs and half the map vs 2 hives.
Basically a fully teched marine team (mt/3/3/ha/jp/hmg etc.) couldn't beat an mc/sc 2 hive alien team.
Everytime they tried to push cargo the comm had to beacon to save what was left of the ha/jp or they were killed completely.
This happened several times. It looked like the aliens were about to make a push and finish the game as a third hive was going up and marines were losing what rts they had left when marines attacked again.
However this time, upon entering cargo, a tf was placed along with 2 ccs.
These ccs blocked both entrances out of fusion hive meaning that any life form trying to enter back through these would die and getting past them was slow too.
As a result of this the marines were able to siege fusion with ease.
BASICALLY, the marine team would not have won without the ccs blocking the small entrances to fusion.
Should that be a deciding factor in a game? Doesn't need an answer does it.
<a href='http://tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=8102' target='_blank'>http://tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=8102</a>
<a href='http://tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=35191' target='_blank'>http://tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=35191</a>
My thoughts:
<a href='http://tacticalgamer.com/showpost.php?p=154053&postcount=22' target='_blank'>http://tacticalgamer.com/showpost.php?p=154053&postcount=22</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not about timing as far as I'm concerned. It's about intent.
If your intent is to trap an alien with a structure which both wasn't there when the melee began and which serves no other purpose, you're in the wrong regardless of timing.
It costs as little as two resources (when you consider RFK) to kill a 50- or 75-resource unit. And that is relevant only if you require reasoning beyond the departure such practice is from the game's design.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the discussion at TG, we agreed to discuss this topic using <b>two distinct verbs</b>: "blocking" and "trapping". I think this thread would benefit from the same agreement, as it makes perfectly clear what action and intent is being discussed.
blocking small doorways = no
anything else = who cares, waste of res <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed, all I can think about reading this thread is that entrance from "big Room" to a hive in ns_orbital_cal. 1 well placed CC can block a fade and prevent skulks from direct access to a very easy seige spot.
skulks?! nah, as long as parasites can get past its fine.
Same here. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As long as a skulk can get through? So in the instance of fully teched HA/HMG I described earlier, as long as a SKULK can get through into cargo everything is ok.
There is nothing wrong with basically incapacitating higher life forms?
Excellent guys, keep it up.
For your reference:
<!--QuoteBegin-"Zunni"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("Zunni")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The development team is consistently striving to make sure that players of the game are aware of exploitive behavior that goes against the intended game play objectives. So to that end, we wanted to mention our opinion about Structure Blocking.
Currently there are 3 major types of Structure Blocking;
Type 1: Blocking Vents: The NS team believes that blocking a ground level vent from the outside or building within a vent is exploitive and are investigating measures to remove it from the game.
Type 2: Blocking Corridors, Hallways, Doors: This includes dropping marine structures in locations to block doorways. We consider this to be a valid strategy, and if the marine team has the resources to accomplish this, then that's their decision.
Type 3: Blocking Enemies: This generally consists of dropping a structure on or directly beside a retreating foe and preventing his progress. We believe this to also be an exploit and are investigating measures to remove it from the game.
We will continue working towards eliminating all sources of exploitive behavior in Natural Selection to ensure our players have the best experience in the game as possible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked structures can not be dropped onto an alien. Atleast I haven't seen it, maybe someone else has? Skulk/Fade/Lerk in this dropping problem consists zero problems to manuever out of the way. Dropping structres in the middle of a hallway only hinders the Onos and Gorge the most. Although who in their right mind would block a gorge is beyond me. Most blocks are to trap Onos, yet I do not see them that much.
Yes fades can get through but not half as smoothly as before. They will get stuck about 60% more often. Fades were happily going in and out of the doorways before the cc's went down in the above situation, but when the CC's went down, the doorway size became about 45% of what it was before and the fades died every attempt they had at retreating.. making the the fades virtually pointless.
Onos' just cant get through at all, making them pointless also.
leaving skulks and lerks to take on the HA/JP/HMG rines with full upgrades in a room the size of cargo.
(dont even raise the idea that onos can kill the CC's that are defended by JP/HMG'ers, before a tf and enough sieges are set up to d3stroy the hive.. not to mention the CC's would just be rebuilt as straight after)
As long as a skulk can get through? So in the instance of fully teched HA/HMG I described earlier, as long as a SKULK can get through into cargo everything is ok.
There is nothing wrong with basically incapacitating higher life forms?
Excellent guys, keep it up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the comm has 40-60 res to block all entrances in a room you are in trouble anyway
Incapacitating? If a skulk can get by so can bile bomb, have a gorge bb the siege. Adapt
Slot 2 - Blink
+lookup aka look at the cieling
Look back foward
Blink
You have just gotten past a CC block as a Fade. Can be done in less than a second.
For more advanced Fades they can fly half the room and fly above the CC easily. I can show you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Last time I checked structures can not be dropped onto an alien. Atleast I haven't seen it, maybe someone else has? Skulk/Fade/Lerk in this dropping problem consists zero problems to manuever out of the way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was an old problem from before players had their own personal no-build radius. Back in 2.1 and before, you could drop a building directly on an alien's (or marine's) head, and the unfortunate alien couldn't move at all until the building was destroyed (or he took advantage of a /stuck plugin).
It is worth 2 medpacks for CC blocks. 2 medpacks to take down 50 or 75 res? Hmm.
Because of the number of res in custom maps, its just too unfair.