Hackers Vs Legitmate Good Players
Qchucka
Join Date: 2005-04-24 Member: 49596Members
Join Date: 2005-04-24 Member: 49596Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Hackers vs Legitmate good players</div> i was wondering, how would i be able to find if a player is legitmatly good, or if he is a hacker?
because in every game there will always be players that just do really well, but if they are hacking then i personally feel cheated and rather play else where.
but if they are really good then i can learn from them.
Is there a way to find out? or even servers that keep taht from happening?
because in every game there will always be players that just do really well, but if they are hacking then i personally feel cheated and rather play else where.
but if they are really good then i can learn from them.
Is there a way to find out? or even servers that keep taht from happening?
Comments
Speed hacks are generally pretty obvious, expecially when they are blatant. The most obvious sign is an increased rate of fire, but movement speed increases can be indicitive too. Make sure you aren't calling speed hacks on a wall walker or a bhopper, as those things make you look like you are illigitimately moving at faster then possible speeds, but they were left in the game for a reason, and are not speed hacks.
Rate hacking, which isn't really hacking but is still really annoying, is basicly setting your client so it sends information to the server at unacceptably rare instances. If a player has a low and stable ping, but it still teleporting around, they may be rate hacking.
Keep in mind that the only hacks that really work for alien players are ESP hacks and rate hacks. Rate hacks are easy as hell to spot, and ESP doesn't play the game for you, it just relays you info you shouldn't have. You still need alot of skill to alien well even if you are hacking, consequently most good aliens don't hack because it's a waste of thier time to hack at a game they have already spent tonnes of time to master, and most hacking aliens suck ****. You only really need to be concerned about hackers on the marine team.
TBH 99 times out of 100 the player with the top score is not hacking, and often hackers in NS don't even end up with the top score. If you spec a player and are still suspicious of them hacking, take a demo and submit it to the admins of the server you were playing on. If your buddy was hacking, the admins will deal with it properly, and if he was hacking, most likely he is already banned from most of the good servers anyways. There really isn't alot of hackers that play NS right now.
One last quick note. Scripts are NOT hacks! anything that can be done with scripts can be done just as well without, with only slightly more difficulty involved. Scripts don't give an unfair advantage, and TBH they BARELY help your gameplay at all in any level of play. The only reason most scripters scirpt is because there is alot of really nice utility things that can be done with scripts that are a huge hassle to do without. Things like one press demo recording and stopping, or info table changes on one key stroke. The only difference is that alternitively you would need to type in a command in the console to do those things, and those actions don't help gameplay in any way shape or form.
[edit] for the life of me I don't see what this has to do with compeditive NS. None of us hack, and if we do we aren't going to be talking about it here.
from what it seems to me, is that there is a lot more accusations of hackers then there really is.
But there was a converstation i had with a member of my clan, he said that when he started he was a hacker, and then one day he witnessed some player that, from his point a view, and having a incredible kill ratio. So he was inspired to to stop hacking and become really good. Being he figured out that winning through skill is more satisfying then winning by cheating. But then later on he found out that the same guy that he was inspired by was actually caught hacking in a Cal League match.....
so this got me thinking that maybe there are more hackers out then i ever thought. But of course this could have been an isolated incident, either way it just got me to thinking.
To me hacking defeats the purpose of even playing, maybe to do it once jsut to try it, but to play that way all the time, makes me sick.
ill keep in mind the tendecies that hackers will perpetually do.
P.S. if you got real skills you dont need scripts <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If they're being elitist to you, they're probably just better, and you did somthing dumb that **** them off. If they're being idiots, and bragging about how good they are because they LMGed 4 skulks and pistoled a pancaking celerity lerk, then signs of hacking are <i>probably</i> there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->P.S. if you got real skills you dont need scripts <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps a hassle should be avoided and the thread closed now
Look out, you pressed a key and it said "MEDPLZTHX" AND called for a medpack! Dirty scriptor.
Not really.
It's not so much "never misses a shot" as it is "snapping to a target" ... The aimbotter's cursor gets close enough, it'll "snap" onto the target, even through walls. It's really pretty obvious when it's happening
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the player just below his score calling "hacks!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this doesn't prove anything - don't assume X player is a hacker without someone who knows what to look for speccing him
It gets tougher to spot late in the round, on account of motion tracking and other upgrades. If you suspect someone is hacking, wait till the start of a new round to spec.
One last thing is that the player might turn off his hacks when someone goes into spec mode, so he doesnt get caught. If he suddenly cant kill anything when you go to spec him, this is a possibility (again, it is NOT proof, just circumstantial evidence. If the server has amxx mod, the admin can do a hidden spec so the hacker doesn't panic and switch them off.)
Not really. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
King's right. I've seen a friend of mine who just started playing NS jetpack three times better than me, and I've been playing since public release.
There's no real true formula to find a hacker, you just need to know what should be done at whatever level. For example, if he has really good aim and never dies, you should expect he has good placement, movement, is probably going to bh, is not suicidary as skulk, etc. (And then again it's not fool proof) The skill in NS is not enough to make a good player. You need the knowledge of the environment.
You can't generalize neither. For example, someone who doesn't build is either someone who sucks at the game, or someone who's expecting for someone else to do it because they need training or want to own some pubbers.
With aimbots, watch to see if they consistently shoot at skulks who have already retreated beyond a wall. I'd say go by names since a hacker tends to be of the maturity level of a twelve year old (www.******.cx as a name or something blatantly offensive), but then you also have great players who think it's funny to feign hacking, somehow. Who knows, sadism's just that cool <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Besides that, swiftspear said it very well.
It's not so much "never misses a shot" as it is "snapping to a target" ... The aimbotter's cursor gets close enough, it'll "snap" onto the target, even through walls. It's really pretty obvious when it's happening <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends on the aimbot. There are a few that only activate when fire is held down and the crosshair is already on a target. Those are quite hard to spot, but generally the easiest method is to see what percentage of hits are acctually catching, as the majority of aimbots start hitting and don't stop. As a decent lerk or fade it is REALLY easy to spot a good hacker candidate. I've played against civ, harmondo, and alot of other delta players. They all shoot ungodly well, but you start really trying to dodge them and they do miss shots. Fighting a hacker feels like fighting a rapid fire turret. You don't stop taking constant damange until you get out of the room they are in, because once they lock a target thier hit/miss rate is a perfect percentage.
You're right about the other thing, it doesn't prove anything, it's just a tell tale sign.
@splinter steve: best way to tell is to listen. Faster then normal RoF sounds VERY obvious for both skulks and marines.
because in every game there will always be players that just do really well, but if they are hacking then i personally feel cheated and rather play else where.
but if they are really good then i can learn from them.
Is there a way to find out? or even servers that keep taht from happening? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spec him. Lots of cheaters know how to and do bunnyhop, wallstrafe and other things you see from experienced players. Aimbots don't always offer 100% accuracy, there will be the occasional moments when shots won't register or it plain misses. Don't rely on k/d ratios - not even an aimbotting vanilla hmg'er can take on 3 onos at once, and some people put themselves in situations where they die easily just to look legit. Why people would do this in a pub, I don't know, but it happens all the time.
Just spec alot of players, or go to popular co servers and you'll see aimbotters at least once a day.
So, in reality, the best way to learn what cheaters do is to experement (offline, please) with the hacks they use in order to see what sort of stuff they do. Most server admins have at least a rudamentary "eye" for what sort of actions people using hacks do typically, paticularly if they are not skilled at hiding their hacking. A good hacker, however, will have a hack that will probally bypass your countermeasures, and will be smart enough to use it to appear as a typical player, but then he will be no better then a typical player.
So, as you can see, the only real danger is when a hacker gets on a server and there's no one to stop him.
Prevention.
It's not so much "never misses a shot" as it is "snapping to a target" ... The aimbotter's cursor gets close enough, it'll "snap" onto the target, even through walls. It's really pretty obvious when it's happening
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the player just below his score calling "hacks!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this doesn't prove anything - don't assume X player is a hacker without someone who knows what to look for speccing him
It gets tougher to spot late in the round, on account of motion tracking and other upgrades. If you suspect someone is hacking, wait till the start of a new round to spec.
One last thing is that the player might turn off his hacks when someone goes into spec mode, so he doesnt get caught. If he suddenly cant kill anything when you go to spec him, this is a possibility (again, it is NOT proof, just circumstantial evidence. If the server has amxx mod, the admin can do a hidden spec so the hacker doesn't panic and switch them off.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, "Snapping" to a target is the primary sign of a good player. The way you get good is you learn to snap directly to a target. Keeping 100% focused on a target that is moving though is difficult. Genuinely good players will frequently snap to a target but they won't be able to track a moving target very well. They'll snap to it 3 or four times hitting each time because they can judge where it'll be the next frame.
What you'll see if someone has an aimbot is that their crosshairs will snap directly onto a target and it'll stay locked onto that target no matter how fast or in what direction the enemy is moving.
Another sign of an aimbot is when the hacker makes a kill, they will point directly at the body until the body disappears. This is a big indicator, but most aimbots have features that work around this flaw like different methods of detection or a toggle hotkey that allows the player to activate the aimbot only when needed.
Here are some more things that are sure signs of aimbots. Color aimbots are confused when multiple targets are on screen. Color aimbots work by detecting an altered skin with just one specific color for the enemy. When there are multiple enemies on the screen, the aimbot averages the position of all the pixels it scans of one specific color, so it'll end up locking on somewhere between the targets rather than directly at them. The problem though, is that the enemies will all be moving, and the view will be moving because of the aimbot, and so the aimbot will end up jerking around left and right and up and down and not locking onto any target.
There are more sophisticated aimbots though, ones that lock on to one specific target based on the streaming information from the server or from information it reads from the computer's memory about the entities' positions. These aimbots aren't vulnerable to this sort of glitch, so they're harder to detect by spectating. Also, some aimbots can be activated and deactivated with a hotkey, so cheaters will only turn them on when an enemy is on screen.
But snapping to a target isn't a sign of a hacker. It's snapping and locking onto a target despite the target's very fast rate of movement or very random directions of movement that indicates an aimbot. Be careful though, because if you see someone that does this a few times, you can't be sure they are hacking. It still takes quite a bit of judgement to determine if someone is truly hacking.
a fade that can lock on to his prey can be very dangerous.
There are lots of others as well however.
a fade that can lock on to his prey can be very dangerous. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes and no,
an good fade wont lock on to a target and go forwards - instead they will blink in a semi circle or blink up and back down or around to hit the target from behind. this makes them a lot hard to hit.
a fade that can lock on to his prey can be very dangerous. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes and no,
an good fade wont lock on to a target and go forwards - instead they will blink in a semi circle or blink up and back down or around to hit the target from behind. this makes them a lot hard to hit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Acctually it's basicly just no. Air movement dictates that without the extra air control you have not locked onto your target 9 times out of 10 a decent player will just hop asside from your blink, probably compealtly disorenting you in the process. Watch a good fade some time, they almost never are acctually locked onto thier target.
it basically seems that hackers are out that, but probally not as abundt as there are whiners who dont know what a good player is.
If i think i see a hacker ill just spectate, and if hes not he should proceed to kick a** and I can still learn by watching a good player.
If i find one that is questionable ill just make a demo and perhaps post it somewhere in the forums, for an expert to decide.
once again Gratzi all! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Spec them, and watch the way they play the game... Someone with god like aim, but no clue about posiitioning, or strategy is more likely (not assured) to be someone to question...
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent question, and there isn't a good answer... That's the issue all the "typical" signs that people can use to tell if people are "h4x"ing are included in NS as features, MT, SOF, etc...
"snapping" refers to the instant snapping on-target while shooting. People do not do perfect synchronisation and are usually rather approximative (ie, they won't hit the exact center of the target the moment they fire their first bullet) on their target aquisition and it's much more progressive.
Something you'll never see on hackers is shooting in front before snapping on target, or aiming at the target without shooting, but I don't think it's possible to describe in words the traits of a hacker
The best thing to do is to watch those videos someone posted (esuna?) here about the different hacks you could be using. Ranges from aimbot to those white textures and passing by those info ESP things.
A bad hacker is easily spotted.
A good hacker is rarely disruptive to normal play since it will simply feel like you are playing against a player who is actually good. Of course, developing actual skills is much more rewarding, but that's a separate issue.
A system like VAC is the best hope for stopping hackers since a perma-ban across all VAC enabled servers is a much bigger deterant then being banned from 1 server.
If anti-hacking is ever implemented, people will be very surprised at how MANY people are hacking -- and how many are NOT hacking.
Yes and no.
Yes it'll ban people from all VAC servers, but VAC is actually incredibly bad at actually *detecting* hacks in the first place.
I call your attention to the CS hack Metacheat written by Joolz, version 1.01, went undetected by VAC for 12-18 months if I recall. During constant VAC updates. They had to resort to string-checking and sub-table lookups. Come on.
CD has always been the better option and as far as I can tell at the moment, unless VAC2 has at least some client-side component, it will continue to be in future.