Level Design Analyse : Ns_origin
Shad
Join Date: 2005-03-10 Member: 44628Members
Join Date: 2005-03-10 Member: 44628Members
I'm a french player of Natural Selection and I would like to realize an analyse of the level design of the map ns_origin ... and I would like to know whats is the opinion of the community.
Feel free to give your ideas...
Free express yourself ...
What strategies on this map ? On the two side ... What are the importants points ... the elements of gameplay which we can see on this map ... your personnals experiences...
Thanks for anwers...
For remember, the overview :
<img src='http://www.hot.ee/naturalselection/images/overviews/ns_origin.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Feel free to give your ideas...
Free express yourself ...
What strategies on this map ? On the two side ... What are the importants points ... the elements of gameplay which we can see on this map ... your personnals experiences...
Thanks for anwers...
For remember, the overview :
<img src='http://www.hot.ee/naturalselection/images/overviews/ns_origin.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Comments
At the same time, the hallways are good for both marines and aliens. They are wide open and long forcing skulks to ambush, while providing decent ambush spots. Bio and furnace are easy to seige and pg in double will do a lot for the rines in terms of accessing the vent hive.
Even though it looks so diverse, its actually a rather symmetrical map. comp lab>laser drilling, xeno>ore, double, 3 hives across top of map with MS bottom center. If you'll notice, all good maps are rather symmetrically balanced, 9-10 Nodes seems to be the magic number with an equal amount of nodes being biased for rines and aliens.
about 65% of the game i played on origin,were won by marines.
Reason: Fast res flow provided by double-res wich is easy to hold for marines.
also access from biodome to ventilation via the vents is very marine favouring, long distances with no place to hide.
Ventilation is easily accessed from double res, also got a marine favouring siege spot near ventilation.
The map lacks vents in many places where they could be crucial for aliens.
Well, marines most of the time easily get double-res, you can assault double-res from 2 directions, well actually 4, 5 if we count vents. You can put siege bases in 2 places around double-res, easily held to. Once marines get double-res, theres no way you can get it back with just skulks and fades and lerks. and if you let them keep it, insane res-flow is guaranteed.
It the marines REALLY lock down double good, they will rarely loose a origin game, but if not, they will rarely win.
For this reason origin is not well loved in the compeditive comunity, because it, moreso then any other map, is very hit and miss wether you will luck out with the good hive or not.
an early lerk might also work very well at protecting nodes on this map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->also access from biodome to ventilation via the vents is very marine favouring, long distances with no place to hide.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
parasite them and retreat, then strike when they come down to vent or bio.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The map lacks vents in many places where they could be crucial for aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is not entirely true. theres a huge amount of vents in origin, really. i dont think another one is that necessary =/
actually, the only 2 griefs i have with origin is the biodome lifts that make sieging 99% succesful if the comm keeps them up, and the architecture around vent node that makes succesful fading very hard indeed.
actually, the only 2 griefs i have with origin is the biodome lifts that make sieging 99% succesful if the comm keeps them up, and the architecture around vent node that makes succesful fading very hard indeed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, I stand corrected. I still don't take back my stance that starting vent is a much more assured victory for aleins then furnace or bio, which both tend to be a hard fought win for alein teams.
What seperates it from Veil is its extreme elevation changes. Vent and Biodome are both much lower then the area around them, so use of a ladder or elevator is required at some point. For Biodome in particular this means defending the hive can be a huge challenge as the marines will frequently siege from the area above the hive, almost entirely knocking Onos out of the equation, and giving the marines opportunity to force a Fade to move up and then raise the elevators behind him, forcing him to try a risky rush into a vent, or to leave the battle and loop back around to the hive once he has healed.
Additionally Origin's vent layout, while very comprehensive is also a bit bizzare. Each hive has only one exit which can be used by an Onos, the others are too low for him to pass through. An Onos in the Ventilation Hive without MCs with Marines in Double will essentially be trapped there, and is of little use except to help repel a direct assualt on Ventilation. Aside from that many of the vents (including all of the ones that interconnect the hives) can be reached by Marines, meaning the Aliens must be very wary when the Marines hold one of the hives, since that means they could easily launch an assualt from the sides.
Again, like Veil, I think Origin's Marine bias is due to two main factors: 1) Long Hallways with great LoS (though I think Origin overall has far more cover then Veil) 2) Res distribution that allows the marines to very quickly, in the early game, cap 3 or 4 nodes by just moving in a straight line. If they use this res wisely they will be simultaneously teching on the arms lab, armory and obs nearly off the bat. Combine this with the elevation issues at Biodome Hive, and the dependence on Movement chambers to get the Onos a second way out of each hive (especially Vent) and its pretty obvious why games play out like they do on the map.
actually, the only 2 griefs i have with origin is the biodome lifts that make sieging 99% succesful if the comm keeps them up, and the architecture around vent node that makes succesful fading very hard indeed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, I stand corrected. I still don't take back my stance that starting vent is a much more assured victory for aleins then furnace or bio, which both tend to be a hard fought win for alein teams. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually swift,
Its usually way better to attack the building second hive than the first hive for the obvious defensive reasons. Aliens spawn there, and it will actively heal aliens. Now, with this taken into account, doesn't ventillation look better as a second hive than bio and furnace? I'd rather have furnace as a first hive, and vent as my second than the other way around. Good fades can fight the smelter seige very well.
actually, the only 2 griefs i have with origin is the biodome lifts that make sieging 99% succesful if the comm keeps them up, and the architecture around vent node that makes succesful fading very hard indeed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, I stand corrected. I still don't take back my stance that starting vent is a much more assured victory for aleins then furnace or bio, which both tend to be a hard fought win for alein teams. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually swift,
Its usually way better to attack the building second hive than the first hive for the obvious defensive reasons. Aliens spawn there, and it will actively heal aliens. Now, with this taken into account, doesn't ventillation look better as a second hive than bio and furnace? I'd rather have furnace as a first hive, and vent as my second than the other way around. Good fades can fight the smelter seige very well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, if you have vent you get to take your pick between bio and furnace, you have a much easier task taking double, and your primary hive has increadible resistance to marine ramboing/attack. The real battle in NS is for res, and with vent hive, ore, furnace, bio, vent and double are all fairly easy to cap and hold with a good team.
Vents in origin are the best around, I like how alot of them enter a room. Instead of the simple hole they are a larger almost mini room with a hole in the floor going down to the hallways. This is much more alien friendly.
-Most halls are long and marine friendly, only occasonally offering cover. While there is a decent vent system, give the halls I would have liked to see a complete vent system that would allow an alien to reach any point on the map via vents. It's far too easy to camp the vent from furnace to ventilation (or vice versa) when securing a hive and this makes any attempt to thrart that fruitless
-The area outside furnace is a campfest for marines, who can set up in a back corner and pick off anything. Alternate routes to the area outside furnace are needed. Vent isn't much better, although there is a bit of cover.
-Biodome elevators are a nuisance to both teams, depending on who holds it. If held by marines the aliens have a hard time busting it since the upper evolutions can be easily trapped and killed. The same can be said if held by aliens, although in this case the marines can siege.
-I've never like double nodes on maps, since they are too great a temptation. If aliens start in vent hive and marines want double, you have to fight continuously to hold it or lose the game.
-Marine start with the two doors is another trap for upper level evolutions. That leaves the only remaining opening a gauntlet. Doors shouldn't be used in hive/spawn areas if at all possible.
-Unlike other maps, hives on this map are only marine accessible from a single main access route to that hive. While the hives have a second entrace route, it is a VENT and not a 'hallway', making a marine approach awkward in those cases when they are forced to use the vent to get in.
Regards,
Savant
1. double res node areas are always bad
2. way too close to marine start, relocs here are common
3. cargo is the only way onos can get into vent hive. and marines hold it more often than not due to reasons above
4. ladder down to vent hive is awkward and hard to use for marines, gorges, and onos
this makes origin a poor map in my books.
If they have Furnace as starting hive, just hold base node+comp lab+xeno+bio. If they have Vent, hold base+comp lab+xeno+double. If they have Biodome, hold base+laser drilling+double. Either way you have 4 or 5 nodes, which is a nice amount.
looks like you spent quite a bit of time on that! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->