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Cuddles
Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 44016Members
Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 44016Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Did you guys even out alien and marines</div> I like the new update that you guys have made however, you did not even the teams (alien and marines) out at all. The aliens befor had about a 50% chance of taking out a marine/s depeding on the players skill, and the marine had about a 50% chance of taking out an alien/s depending on the players skill.
Now with this new update, the aliens are deffinetly over powered. Why would you guys take a fairly even game, and make it uneven? Everyone that I see playing marines now, has an extremly hard time winning the game pirode. There has been a total of 3 games that I have seen the marines win on any given server. Now I'm not a programer, but thats just bad programing!
I know that you guys have tried to make this game better, but this had better not be the last update for this game, or else it will turn out like "The Specialist" with there last update (atleast a 60% drop in servers).
I do not really plan on comming back to check on this post/topic, so really I don't give two hoots if you guys decide to flame me, infact go right ahead!!!!
Now with this new update, the aliens are deffinetly over powered. Why would you guys take a fairly even game, and make it uneven? Everyone that I see playing marines now, has an extremly hard time winning the game pirode. There has been a total of 3 games that I have seen the marines win on any given server. Now I'm not a programer, but thats just bad programing!
I know that you guys have tried to make this game better, but this had better not be the last update for this game, or else it will turn out like "The Specialist" with there last update (atleast a 60% drop in servers).
I do not really plan on comming back to check on this post/topic, so really I don't give two hoots if you guys decide to flame me, infact go right ahead!!!!
Comments
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><i>Disclaimer: Merks needs some sleep before he posts more stupid replies</i></span>
So why isn't Ramboing a very successful thing to do these days? Well for starter's, you're not Rambo...
So why isn't Ramboing a very successful thing to do these days? Well for starter's, you're not Rambo... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, what we are saying is that an average gameplay winloss of 2 wins for rines for 8 wins for aliens is not balanced. "marines should have to XXXX to win" is not a valid argument, because evedently whatever XXXX is is alot harder to do then what the aliens have to do in order to win.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Harder or less conventional what? Marine rounds?
I suspect aliens will win now a tad more often than marines won in b5. This isn't like the 1.04 to 2.0 change, gameplay has not changed significantly just the strengths of things already in the game.
No new strategies come into existence in this patch. Some just become more viable and others less.
I suspect aliens will win now a tad more often than marines won in b5. This isn't like the 1.04 to 2.0 change, gameplay has not changed significantly just the strengths of things already in the game.
No new strategies come into existence in this patch. Some just become more viable and others less. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find a positive change and that is the nerfing of ramboing. Marines WERE supposed to be a teamwork team, and cloaking, silence only encourage this.
I don't understand your stance though. Marines can drop no new buildings, get no new upgrades, or use any new weapons. How could they do something new? Most assuredly things like building obs everywhere are now far more effective than it used to be and we will see it more often but just because it wasn't useful before doesn't mean it is new now.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find a positive change and that is the nerfing of ramboing. Marines WERE supposed to be a teamwork team, and cloaking, silence only encourage this.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would agree with this partially. Certainly it makes it more difficult on rambos and while I'm not the biggest fan of people who rambo every round, it did add a bit different style of gameplay I enjored occaisonally.
umm... I really don't see why you would quote my post when you say this though, they have little to do with eachother.
so as it stands at the moment on my server aliens win 60% - 70% of the time and marines win 30% - 40% of the time!
Which is better than it was in beta 5 because in beta 5 the average winning for marines on my server was less than 25% of the time!
But before people flame me, this is only my server mind its not something to go by there are plenty more servers out there where this scenario dont happen!
But there is 1 thing i ask u to consider and thats the team work involved now!
I suspect aliens will win now a tad more often than marines won in b5. This isn't like the 1.04 to 2.0 change, gameplay has not changed significantly just the strengths of things already in the game.
No new strategies come into existence in this patch. Some just become more viable and others less. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err, according to most competative players the marines were stronger in b5, and I totally agree with them. An unupgraded skulk has troubles with even killing an ambushed marine, 9 bullets, that's all you need, the skulk won't even be able to land 2 bites within the time of 9 bullets, think about that. Aliens, espcecially the lower lifeforms needed a buff, and they got their buff.
Marines needs strategies now to!
If you have a dumb team who dont follow orders, then dont expect them to work as a team or shoot straight. Use your common sense, use turrets/electric/mines. Dont rely on the team. Get em motion tracking and leave em to it. Wait till a guy randomly runs into a hive then PG and siege etc. You will probably loose though.
If youve a good team (i.e skilled but not team-work oriented), then use them, get them a shed load of upgrades, jetpacks etc and let em roam free. You may win.
If youve got a team that works together, it doesnt matter what you do or how skilled they are, your going to win (unless, of course, your a crap comm).
Commanding is like babysitting, sometimes you get kids all "daddy daddy lets play together", sometimes you get the "leave me alone im playing transformers" type, other times you get teenagers.
Or something...anyway, back to work.
Jez.
It's been a while since real teamwork has been neccessary on the Marine side of the game; it will take time for the Marines to adjust... and possibly even more for Commanders to remember the forgotten (or never learned) 1.0x skills of actually managing the team, rather than being an eye-in-the-sky building and health dropper.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->? Where did I say rines weren't stronger in b5? I've always said they are. I've also said that the aliens needed a buff and think that free upgs was a great idea. And umm... Before the rines get armor 1 it isnt that hard to ambush most of them without upgs as a skulk.
the key to winning a game of ns as marines is TEAMWORK. the key to winning ns as aliens is brute force. that's the way flayra designed the game to be, just look at the 1.x versions especially. sure, marines had ueber-jetpacks, but disregarding those, as soon as the aliens got two hives it became a tough match, 3 hives was a definite loss for the marines WHATEVER technology they had. in 3.0b5, marines could and would break a 3-hive alien team with ease.
lone rambo marines don't work anymore. the b5 standard order of upgrade researching doesn't work anymore. that doesn't mean that the aliens are oveprowered; it simply means the marine players haven't adapted enough yet!
the biggest 'problem' (i'd rahter call it challenge) right now is that the marine team needs about 700% as much teamwork as the kharaa team. the game has finally become more dependant on a good comm, and the ability of marines to listen to their commander and execute their orders without doubting them. you know, when you see that blue circle somewhere 30 meters away from you, and hear the sound "proceed to waypoint", guess where you have to go? no, the answer is not "walk around aimlessly and play rambo until the comm beacons us all so we can hump the armory some more". that 'strategy' doesn't work anymore.
stick in your squad. cover each other. weld each other. move to your waypoint. adapt or die.
Unless they will be forming a conga line, surely you mean coherent? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"Put the thesaurus down and back away from the paragraph Talesin, or we'll be forced to send in NemesisZero."
I think people just need to give it time, and they will soon see that this is all for the better.
Oh come on, let's don't start splitting semantical hairs. If something has been potentially possible, but did not take place on any noticeable scale due to the general gameplay situation impending it, and if it then becomes possible and frequently used due to a modified framework, it is new for all intents and purposes of the word.
stick in your squad. cover each other. weld each other. move to your waypoint. adapt or die. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed 110%. As a comm, my biggest problem has been dealing with newbs that love the armory's soft caress, yet somehow fail to take note of buildings falling out of the sky next to them. And waypoints seem for them to be indicators of where NOT to go.
And as far as teamwork is concerned, lets say I've got 3 marines in a hive at the beginning of the game (with all the new players this doesnt happen often, usually they barely get out of base before death, even with MT and armor 1). I drop some buildings to lock it down...they start building, but then hear a single skulk. EVERY SINGLE MARINE stops building and prepares to fight. This is great that they're alert and all but all too often the aliens harass them until eventually the marines are dead, and the turrets/PG arent up yet...It doesnt matter what size the squad is, if an alien makes a sound they all stop building (happens with siege bases too, where time is of the essence). And when they die, it's no more hive
Hopefully in a couple weeks marines will start learning how to deal with teamwork issues (and newbs will learn the game), because pub commanding is way more stressful than before (you drop arms lab, they refuse to build it, no matter how much yelling/how many waypoints you give, you get ejected when the team starts to lose)
/rant_end
Beautiful. I kept away from this game for absolute yonks because it seemed to grow less & less team-oriented for marines. If current impositions cause TSA to work together more efficiently then count me in! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The biggest problem in standard PUB's are newer players' fascination with TF and electrification. Competitive players and more "experienced" pub commanders use it sparingly, if at all, but a lot of newer commanders use it as a failsafe, protecting base, or RT's. Trying to teach all new players to stop using TF's would be pointless, only removing them would have that effect. Forcing the gameplay to require them in competitive play or higher teir servers wouldn't work, b/c res is a precious commodity. Inherently, this is a problem/tactic that will never cease.
Face it, turreting (other than two hive lock down) is completely useless, as the res investment isn't worth it. My only suggestion to bring these two gameplay styles together would be to somehow bring Turrets and OC's to a point, where they are not over used, but if a commander does use them, the investment doesn't cost the game. We need a way to let the marines and aliens have a little more leave way to place chambers/turrets. Drop Turrets and OC's to 5 res, then that will overall slow the game down a bit IMO, allowing the res investment to recover a little bit by area denial. Just lower the HP to 66% of current to compensate for the increased usage.
So why isn't Ramboing a very successful thing to do these days? Well for starter's, you're not Rambo... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, what we are saying is that an average gameplay winloss of 2 wins for rines for 8 wins for aliens is not balanced. "marines should have to XXXX to win" is not a valid argument, because evedently whatever XXXX is is alot harder to do then what the aliens have to do in order to win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We go through these comments with every single new release lol
Give it a couple weeks for people to finally get it that they might need to change their strats or even better, make new ones.
Then see how well everything works.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As a pub commander, who doesnt have the time or dedication for organized play, I have still adopted a no lockdown strategy. By my logic, if my marines can't win a game with a lot of big, noisy shotguns, then a bunch of piddling little turrets wont help either.
As for balance issues, no amount of whining or complaining will cover the fact that in a new version, Aliens may get new features and buffs, but the level of improvement relies on the individual, whereas for the Marines, the level of improvement always is on the level of the team. Adapting to new strategies and countering new alien tactics takes signifigantly more time than learning to drop DCs later and SCs earlier.
There have been absolutle no real fundamenal changes to the game or lifeorms, save the innate regen, and the improvement of the cloack, which was supposed to be implemented like this in the first place. Therefore, the changes are made on a level designed to alter strategies and tactics, which impacts a marine team signifigantly more.
I dont know what to think about the seiges. Do i like it or not?
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> Good luck marines!
This is what I am getting from you "All the marines need is better teamwork to win".
All the aliens needed in b5 to win was better teamwork. EITHER SIDE will easily dominate in almost any version of ns there has ever been if they exhibit significanlty more teamwork than the other one.
Sure if your marines start using more teamwork on average than the aliens that will help close the gap but if the aliens use more it widens it.
If they both use equal teamwork the aliens still win.
I don't think that has been agreed upon yet. Marines need to use more teamwork than they currently are using (and not necessarily more than the aliens), because for the most part they aren't used to working as a team at all. Even if YOU have adapted to the new playstyles, that doesn't mean that the rest of your team has, so you still need to wait a few weeks to see how things go.
You might be right, but it's too soon to have a definitive answer.
It's just that Kharaa are forced to adapt... lerk for umbra, fade to take out that base, gorge for BB and healing support; whereas Marines just all get handed shotguns or HMGs, or in a turtle situation, GLs.
A heterogenous mix of weaponry would benefit the Marines similarly. A shotgunner or two to handle point and rearguard, an HMG for suppressive fire and large lifeform damage, and a GLer to remove structures, fire for effect, clear vents, and in general support the shotgunners by herding the enemy units as well as possible.
Just everyone is still in the 'OMG SH0tguNZ!!!!11!eleven!!!' mindset. Perhaps the Kharaa being able to rip through will encourage comms to use the advantage of niche-assigning their Marines through dropped equipment.