@thread: i cant see what people dont like about long games ... these rounds (now ~45min) keep me playing ns. it definately aint fun playing classic just for 10min.
i hope all this will slowly result in a bugfree, balanced 1.04 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Feb 13 2005, 10:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Feb 13 2005, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont see what the big deal is with long games...there not THAT great. (and yes, i did play 1.04) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. It's just people not being able to finish the game pretending they're playing for real.
These epic games are not supposed to be in, they are just caused by the no-3rd-hive-bug that many have experienced in release 3 of beta 6... I wouldn't grow too expectant that 2 hour games would become standard by the release of version 3
Yeah, after talking to my roommate this past weekend (who was back at school and able to play a bit), I'm definitely starting to think B6 (the current build at least) isn't 100% responsible for the longer games.
That 90+ minute game everyone is talking about is because of the hive drop bug... aliens could only drop two hives to go against fully teched marines. And that mean they only had SC and MC <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Corn+Feb 13 2005, 10:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Corn @ Feb 13 2005, 10:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> These epic games are not supposed to be in, they are just caused by the no-3rd-hive-bug that many have experienced in release 3 of beta 6... I wouldn't grow too expectant that 2 hour games would become standard by the release of version 3 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> uhm we (at least i) dont wont them to be standard ... just maybe 1 in 10 games would be enough ... so that they might happen when teams are balanced
<!--QuoteBegin-SuddenFear+Feb 13 2005, 06:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuddenFear @ Feb 13 2005, 06:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 6 hour clan matches, that'll resurrect the game! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> great way to show your ignorance of a subject
clan matches are truncated do to the nature of the game
That 90+ minute game everyone is talking about is because of the hive drop bug... aliens could only drop two hives to go against fully teched marines. And that mean they only had SC and MC <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:red'>*Be nice.* -Talesin</span>
Really though, long games are perfectly possible in b5 - the reason we don't see them isn't that the game doesn't really provide for them, because it pretty much does, but that pubteams usually don't know how to find those weakspots that need to be hit to stop a slippery slope, and in turn commence a turnaround.
Just recently in clanplay, I've seen like 4 out of 5 games end up being 30 minute deals with the outcome up in the air until the second Hive is toasted or the marine eco defeated. What really prevents long games is that the whole ordeal IS pretty balanced, and bad players are unlikely to make comebacks. If it were any different, we'd just be using imbalances to unnaturally prolong rounds and that wouldn't serve anyone.
i dont know what some people got against longer games. in that game we toasted, what? 3 or 4 hives? we had the aliens down to 1 hive at one point of another. the teams were fairly balanced skill wise,. i joined about 20 minutes in. thus the socre <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
anyways, theres many many factors that could be contributing to the especially long games that seem to be occuring across the board. and one of the first posters said it best. if you dont like long games, go play vanilla co.
<!--QuoteBegin-2 of Eight+Feb 13 2005, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (2 of Eight @ Feb 13 2005, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Long games = fun Drawn out games = boring
What I mean by "long games" is constant action; not turtling in MS or whatever, but constant back-and-forth movement, and when you <b>don't know which team will win until they actually win</b>. Meaning that you can't call the game (aliens lews, ogm f4) from the very beginning. Drawn out games are boring turtle farms where nothing happens.
I'm hoping that B6 will bring in fun, long games <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've played games back in the day for hours at a time, epic battles... its hard to believe the'll ever be back... and if they do come back... the'll still be empty without the babblers to fill my empty gorge soul......
I too miss the babblers. I wish it was possible to make an amxx plugin for it that didnt suck total ****. But that has more to do with me sucking at C++.
There are two reasons that B6 results in "epic" games lately:
1.) Because of the lack of people playing, many games start off 1v1 and eventually grow into full-size games, usually resulting in the classic scenario of fully teched marines holding out in base against aliens with OCs covering the entire map.
2.) A bug that prevents one or more of the hives from ever being dropped on certain maps often limits aliens to 2 hives for the duration of the game, thus depriving them of a third upgrade chamber(which is sometimes DCs if the alien team decided to do something different) and any real base-breaking ability.
In other words, nothing that will carry over to release. Epic games that aren't just turtled stalemates will probably always be a rare occurence for when both of the teams are nearly evenly matched.
epic games are still the best though <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Some of the best epic games were are lan parties with my friends... altho I'd say they are epic because it was easy to just get up and beat the crap out of the guy who just killed you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-typical skeleton+Feb 12 2005, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (typical skeleton @ Feb 12 2005, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Green's definitely got it all figured out. TKing people for F4ing, yeah... sounds like the smart/mature idea that'd make people appreciate NS even more.
If it's a big server and enough of the people agree to F4 to cause the round to end, you were probably just going to end up a turtle anyway. Just start a new round and get on with it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If the admin isn't there to ban them, so be it.
I can't count the number of exciting games that seesaw back and forth for hours that ended with walk over due to this, most players DON'T want the round to end and usually there's an admin there to ban the idiots. Before 1.04 where skulks were much more deadly allmost every other game that I played lasted for hours without being dull, more than half of which ended with no one winning due to 2-3 players f4ing, usually they where people who joined late in the game and didn't realise the game had been going for hours. Luckily, I had enough sense to usually play on admined servers where they would be promptly banned with or without any intervention from me.
so that's 20 minutes of initial action, and 49:04 seconds of a slow death? These pictures do nothing to show us that B6 is any good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Except were this true, there would be a huge score for one team, and a pitiful one for the other, a la 1.04 2 hive lockdowns.
That game was certainly longer than most, and bizarrely both sides were complaining "We've lost, there's no way out." In the space of 5 minutes I heard a Kharaa & Marine player say in turn "Come on, finish it." which was somewhat odd.
That screenshot wasn't a turtle map, it was a true battle. I'm not being arrogant or bold enough to claim B6 is that all over, (If it was, we PT's would be out of a job <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) but it's swinging in the right direction, in my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 14 2005, 03:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 14 2005, 03:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've played games back in the day for hours at a time, epic battles... its hard to believe the'll ever be back... and if they do come back... the'll still be empty without the babblers to fill my empty gorge soul...... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't make me cry. I was on a server a couple of days ago and when we got three hives I said "Dammit, I want my babblers!". Almost no-one responded. Those that did merely said "What?" or words to that effect.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 13 2005, 11:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 13 2005, 11:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah... I allways wanted to make a plug-in that when a hive died 50 babblers spawned out of the hive , ya know, just something to spice things up
I never did make it tho <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Not played NS long enough to have experienced what babblers are *braces for the flame*
And
2. Played in sooo many long games, but only one really springs to mind. And it was only about a month ago now.. lasted nigh on 80mins, and only ended when people started to think "damn, nearly 80mins". I reckon it could have easily gone on more.
Comments
Quoted for truth.
@thread: i cant see what people dont like about long games ... these rounds (now ~45min) keep me playing ns. it definately aint fun playing classic just for 10min.
i hope all this will slowly result in a bugfree, balanced 1.04 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Exactly. It's just people not being able to finish the game pretending they're playing for real.
That 90+ minute game everyone is talking about is because of the hive drop bug... aliens could only drop two hives to go against fully teched marines. And that mean they only had SC and MC <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> Nope. doesn't work.
uhm we (at least i) dont wont them to be standard ... just maybe 1 in 10 games would be enough ... so that they might happen when teams are balanced
great way to show your ignorance of a subject
clan matches are truncated do to the nature of the game
That 90+ minute game everyone is talking about is because of the hive drop bug... aliens could only drop two hives to go against fully teched marines. And that mean they only had SC and MC <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'>*Be nice.* -Talesin</span>
Really though, long games are perfectly possible in b5 - the reason we don't see them isn't that the game doesn't really provide for them, because it pretty much does, but that pubteams usually don't know how to find those weakspots that need to be hit to stop a slippery slope, and in turn commence a turnaround.
Just recently in clanplay, I've seen like 4 out of 5 games end up being 30 minute deals with the outcome up in the air until the second Hive is toasted or the marine eco defeated. What really prevents long games is that the whole ordeal IS pretty balanced, and bad players are unlikely to make comebacks. If it were any different, we'd just be using imbalances to unnaturally prolong rounds and that wouldn't serve anyone.
anyways, theres many many factors that could be contributing to the especially long games that seem to be occuring across the board. and one of the first posters said it best. if you dont like long games, go play vanilla co.
But it's probably only because we tested for the first 20 minutes (the hive bug and stuff) and played around...
Drawn out games = boring
What I mean by "long games" is constant action; not turtling in MS or whatever, but constant back-and-forth movement, and when you <b>don't know which team will win until they actually win</b>. Meaning that you can't call the game (aliens lews, ogm f4) from the very beginning.
Drawn out games are boring turtle farms where nothing happens.
I'm hoping that B6 will bring in fun, long games <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NO FAIR Wahhhh
I never did make it tho
1.) Because of the lack of people playing, many games start off 1v1 and eventually grow into full-size games, usually resulting in the classic scenario of fully teched marines holding out in base against aliens with OCs covering the entire map.
2.) A bug that prevents one or more of the hives from ever being dropped on certain maps often limits aliens to 2 hives for the duration of the game, thus depriving them of a third upgrade chamber(which is sometimes DCs if the alien team decided to do something different) and any real base-breaking ability.
In other words, nothing that will carry over to release. Epic games that aren't just turtled stalemates will probably always be a rare occurence for when both of the teams are nearly evenly matched.
Some of the best epic games were are lan parties with my friends... altho I'd say they are epic because it was easy to just get up and beat the crap out of the guy who just killed you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If it's a big server and enough of the people agree to F4 to cause the round to end, you were probably just going to end up a turtle anyway. Just start a new round and get on with it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the admin isn't there to ban them, so be it.
I can't count the number of exciting games that seesaw back and forth for hours that ended with walk over due to this, most players DON'T want the round to end and usually there's an admin there to ban the idiots. Before 1.04 where skulks were much more deadly allmost every other game that I played lasted for hours without being dull, more than half of which ended with no one winning due to 2-3 players f4ing, usually they where people who joined late in the game and didn't realise the game had been going for hours. Luckily, I had enough sense to usually play on admined servers where they would be promptly banned with or without any intervention from me.
Kay...
so that's 20 minutes of initial action, and 49:04 seconds of a slow death?
These pictures do nothing to show us that B6 is any good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except were this true, there would be a huge score for one team, and a pitiful one for the other, a la 1.04 2 hive lockdowns.
That game was certainly longer than most, and bizarrely both sides were complaining "We've lost, there's no way out." In the space of 5 minutes I heard a Kharaa & Marine player say in turn "Come on, finish it." which was somewhat odd.
That screenshot wasn't a turtle map, it was a true battle. I'm not being arrogant or bold enough to claim B6 is that all over, (If it was, we PT's would be out of a job <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) but it's swinging in the right direction, in my opinion.
- Shockwave
Don't make me cry. I was on a server a couple of days ago and when we got three hives I said "Dammit, I want my babblers!". Almost no-one responded. Those that did merely said "What?" or words to that effect.
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I mean, the real frea..uhm pros here do know NS history, right?
I never did make it tho <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well you're a friendly chap, aren't you?
Babblers were the heart and soul of NS! If you think otherwise then...then...you, sir, are a fool!
And
2. Played in sooo many long games, but only one really springs to mind. And it was only about a month ago now.. lasted nigh on 80mins, and only ended when people started to think "damn, nearly 80mins". I reckon it could have easily gone on more.
Both sides kinda had, what was it, 3, 4 teams already.. I think I was one out of 3 playing from the start and finishing.
I've had games in 3.0 that have been over 100 minutes, so that's good. However, I still think 3.0 is better.
And I think beta 6 is the greatest version so far (however, I've only played with constis and playtesters...)