The Definite Prove That Turrets Have To Be Limited

Acrobad · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">The most boring/horrible game ever</div> This is worse than lamers or people who try to ruin a fun game...
This is a crime, a sin, a blasphemy!

I was bored tonite, and because Fists of Ra was destroyed by 2 lamers, I headed out for another server.

Having ASE out, i found a server, joined 10/16... being an alien, having 3 hives, cornering the marines down to their main base and entrance... everything seems fine.

Until I reached their base.

<img src='http://members.rogers.com/caprice/images/ns_hera0000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Totally horrible. I lagged, I screamed, I leaped, I died in 2 seconds

This could not be happening. I told myself. It must have been just a bad dream, and gunned down by a few marines with LMGs.

I convinced myself to go check it again. I became a fade, just in case.

It's not a dream. God. It's not a dream. The whole turret farm lagged me again. There must be like at least 100 turrets there. Some guy said it first at 125 shots per second, I presume they have more than 125 turrets in their base.

I figured, while I couldn't go kamikaze into the mindless farm, I could probably attack it with the infamous Bilebombs.

<img src='http://members.rogers.com/caprice/images/ns_hera0001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Seeing as how the bug works, the bilebomb proves totally useless. (yes the server set damage viewing on)

I gave up. I tried to blink to their CC. I died half way there.

I gave up again, I tried to leap across from the vent, with such short distance I lengthened my living time to 5 seconds, and died when I finally reached the top because of laggage.

By that time, they took our 3rd hive (ventilation 3-c) because my teammates would not build offense towers and defence towers... they think gorge is no good and dont listen to my advice. I turned gorg myself to build, and having no backup whatsoever, I died.

After that I leaped again to their CC from the same route, and died in less than 3 seconds this time, with lags again.

I forgot to mention... through out the game, I see a few red lines about an inch long on my netgraphs (for those who doesn't understand, it means the server is losing packets or something, and it's lagging bad, and we're not able to move for a few seconds until it stablizes again)

I told my team to go to Readyroom seeing as how it's pointless to fight against them. The 2 of them (yes, by this time, it was down to 7 vs 3 because of the total lameness) didn't listen.

I gave up. Wanting to take a screen pic of how many turrets there actually were, I went into spectator mode and moved on to the marine base.

Wow, there's totally nothing there. I thought the marines gave up and resigned. But I disturbingly saw the red line on my netgraph again. This time it's a long one. (and notice the Warning: Connection Problem and the pings, it was about 100-130 when i was away from their base)

<img src='http://members.rogers.com/caprice/images/ns_hera0002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

The turret farm was causing such laggage, it lagged me out of the server.

I thought it was only me. but no... the whole server restarted. Everyone gone. map changed.

<b>The turret farm created a laggage that was sufficient to crash the server</b>

It's horrible. I dearly wishes the developers would look into this and do something about limiting turrets... It's horrible I tell you, horrible! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>

Acrobad · November 2002

I see that a lot of you are reading it but noone is responding.

I take it the pics are too big? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>-bump-</span>

Knuke · November 2002

No not to big, loaded them up in about 1 second, and yes thats lame but theres nothing you can do about it, aliens can do that too. I played in a game like that today it lasted 1 hour just trying to kill their base with 3 hives! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>

FoxFlame · November 2002

*Shrugs* Sounds more like your system couldn't handle the load placed on it. I only counted about 16 turrets in their base. If you had taken all the other hives and had pinned them into their base alone, the 16 turrets would have accounted for all they had and shouldn't have lagged the server out. Remember, the server processes everything at all times. It's more likely that the lag you experiances was your own system unable to handle the strain of having to render so much action in the marines base at once. Otherwise every other individual who spawned in that base wouldn't be able to move either, and the marines would have been recycling the turrets themselves. I've been in turret farms before and flown by globs of over 16 offensive/defensive/sensory towers some very constructive gorn has built into a giant mass near hives before and never lagged a bit. What kind of video card and CPU does your system sport?

Also, remember: When they've got that many turrets, don't try for the cheap attacks (CC and spawnpoints), begin destroying the turrets (it costs them to rebuilt, it costs you nothing to destroy) or attempt to bomb the turret factory keeping them alive. If you can take out the turret factory, they're all worthless.

Keeping a steady onos rush, all of which have redemption will eventually wear down the turrets too. They can't rebuild if you're stomping them. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Then again, if only your system lags that horridly when you just get close to them, you're rig isn't strong enough for the assault. If the entire server lags when you attempt your charge, then the server needs to host less people and optimize it's overall performance.

[/IMO]

Oh, what is this bug you were talking about that works?

--Fox

Acrobad · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FoxFlame @ Nov 16 2002, 05:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>*Shrugs* Sounds more like your system... less people and optimize it's overall performance.

[/IMO]

Oh, what is this bug you were talking about that works?

--Fox</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You obviously had no idea what I was talking about.

there were more than 16 turrets in there.

I wasn't able to take a full screenie of the whole base because before I got in, I died!

all the alien players are complaining about the lag!

I've never had a lag in NS before this, even in the messiest battle.

I do admit my videocard is not that great. It's an ATI rage 128 all in wonder or something, I can't figure out the name. it's a p4, 256 ram, and stuff. I'm not a technie.

Bombing the turrets? I CAN"T! I TOLD U! Bile bomb doesn't work and it takes forever with acid rocket.

Killing the factory? I can't! I can't even see it and it's impossible to aim at it with all those turrets in the way!

Onos? Hah! two onos came rushing in, dead in 30 seconds, or less. they didn't even have the time to run away, their health was goign down 100 per second at least. with the accompanied marines nade spam, they died in 5 seconds.

I'm not exagerrating the whole thing. And why would the server be not able to support a playersize of 8 when the ping was about 100-130 when I was away from their base?

The bug I was talking about was the fact that siege cannon and bilebomb does no effect whatsoever on the structures.

I dont think you really understand what I'm saying unless you experienced it yourself. It really <b>did crashed the server</b> after all.

Acrobad · November 2002

To add to the point... The turrets were all over the place. No solid ground was wasted. everything was Turrets and the necessary stuff. Marines can hardly walk out their base. They all had jetpack for that purpose. Do you see the marine on the box? why do you think he would stand there when he could be protected in the obstacles of turrets?

WaffleSpoon · November 2002

The only problem I've ever had with all of em turrets is not the turrets themselves, its the total lack of view I get.

Hive sight makes those orange circles around -every- building and marine, so u see a orange....thing.. on the other side of the wall, run around as a fade, trying to blow it away, and hivesight blocks your view entirely so u cant see anything. (plz dont tell me that hivesight circles go away when u have actual sight of the target, sometimes during lag this wont happen, or you just peek around a corner, seeing the first edge of the sea of turrets while rest is behind wall making it impossible to see anything)

Back on topic, playing as a marine, I find turrets fairly useless. Playing as an Alien, I find em more than irritating.

But still, balance is great, just wish that the fades werent as strong as they are, and that aliens were given some sort of turret-take-outer <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

FoxFlame · November 2002

Again *shrugs* I counted again, and I still only see 16. I see plenty of space behind those first three in the picture. Even 16 in an area as small as that is a bit much, but I know for a fact that there is a limit on the amount of towers you can build in an area as an alien, so I would assume the same applies to the turrets.

As for your video card, I'm surprised you're able to run at all with an old Rage 128. Is it one of those integrated chipsets build into the motherboard? I'd bet money on that single component causing 90% of the lag you experienced. Get a Geforce 2 at least. The old 128s were back in the late 90s.

That bug where you don't damage the buildings with artillery is a real pain in the arse. They need to fix that PDQ.

As for the onos, check your math. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> 30 seconds (or less), when losing health at 100 points per second would mean they had 3000 health. Unless the admin modified the onos' life status, one of those two figures is an exaggeration, which proves you're at least exaggerating something <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'> The point I was making was that a constant stream of onos who were healed and recharged to the base after a redemption would have been able to get into the base as long as there was a fade or two bile bombing or acid rocketing the area the onos had just cleared so the marines couldn't rebuild. It's possible, I've experianced this situation before.

I can see the turret factory is directly to the left of the doorway in the first picture. You had three hives right? Get a lerk with adrenaline and umbra cloud the enterance on up until the onos get to the turret factory. If the bullets actually did do something through the umbra cloud, have a gorg standing by to heal. Simple tactics.

The marine on the box looks like he's fighting the onslaught of aliens from the south, as any good marine would have been doing at the time. Doesn't look like he wanted to be protected, he wouldn't have far to walk far from respawn if he died.

Also keep in mind that the map you were playing on was Hera, the single laggiest map in the collection. Bast isn't much better. If anyone was complaining about lag, it was probably because you were playing on that map, in a game that had probably lasted several hours, not because some commander build a dozen or so turrets.

There's no way to know if the server crashed, or if the host simply lost connection to the Internet, but I seriously doubt Marines could build so many turrets in a single area that they could crash the server.

I do think you're exaggerating a bit, but I'll ask some of those players I see on the screenshots what their thoughts were if I see them and they actually remember this event that is burned into your memory. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> If anything I'd say the marines were actually working together and, from what you're saying, held off the aliens long enough that they quit the game, and in effect, won the match. Bravo for them. Talk about digging in. Sounds like my kinda guys.

"Turret-taker-outer" is supposed to be the Fade's bile bomb, but if you're playing on a server where grenades do no damage to buildings you're pretty much out of luck and will have to use umbra+ono tactics, which work very well by the way. Umbra is godly, and very underused.

--Fox

Terr · November 2002

Let's have a soft limit. Max 6 turrets per factory, siege counts as two. Over the max, you need to pay 'upkeep', resource_constant times turrets_over_limit over time. No two turret factories can be closer than X distance.

Tadaaaa.

FoxFlame · November 2002

That would unbalance static defenses. One could argue then that the Offensive Tower's require resources to 'live'. The marines already use resources for enough things (suits, jetpacks, weaponry, welders), they don't need to be paying to keep up static defenses too (yes, the aliens pay for evolutions, but they're also stronger, and live longer, especially with redemption, which is why you so commonly see aliens with maxed out resource meters). Marines are frequently the losers of the match due to inexperianced players and lack of teamwork anyway. The last thing they need is a seige tactic holding them in until their turrets break down due to lack of resources so that the onos can simply rush in and destroy them. There's already redemption+rushing, and umbra+melee, so turrets are nothing more than a simple hurdle, and I've found I can usually run right past them as a skulk or fade, since they're actually pretty inaccurate.

As far as a soft number limiting their production based on turret factory, that might not be too bad, but I'd bet a number already exists to prevent overbuilding much like the aforementioned limit to towers for aliens.

If the aliens cooperated half as much as the marines have to to win, I think there'd be far less complaints about the power of human weapons and defenses and the aliens would be the next to get nerfed.

--Fox

WaffleSpoon · November 2002

Yes I know of the bilebomb bug, but its going to be fixed, yes? (now doing half-damage instead of double?)

Doombringer · November 2002

I can't argue that there were 16 or 160 turrets in that room, only Acrobad knows for sure <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

However, I've seen the same tactic used by aliens. I also see a lot more Aliens placing offensive turrets outside Marine bases (to pick them off as they exit or to trap them inside) than I see Marines placing sentry turrets outside of Alien hives. You could argue that the Marines are more of an 'offensive' group that will take a hive rather than harass it, whereas Aliens have to weaken and demoralize the Marines to gain an advantage.. but it still adds up to a lot of turrets <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Sometimes, all the Marines can do when they're losing is turtle up in their base until their dwindling RPs run out. Same with Aliens defending that last hive as nothing but Skulks and Lerks.

QuietMischief1 · November 2002

I love the Marines that do the same strategy everytime, lose everytime, and figure the next time, IT MIGHT WORK CAUSE YOU KNOW MAYBE GOD WILL HELP US WIN!

Yes, there should be a limit, similiar to the one on OC's (Offense Chamber). 6 or so Turrets in one area, 2 or 3 seige's, but no more

Turret Farming only delays the Marine's death, and yes, Umbra makes every 9th or 11th bullet or some **obscenity** miss, so, with 20 turret's going, with at least 5 marines with weapons backing it up, that's a lot of bullets, umbra is effective, but not against such a force. Also, do not go for the TF in that situation, start going for each individual T, blow a hole in teh defensives, don't jump into the thick of them to get splattered 3 seconds later. Onos normaly last 15-20 seconds against a Turret Farmer, if it has level 3 carapace, last's 10-15 with Regen

As far as Redemption goes... it never works for me. Not only that, but if you are using it, that means you are a Fade or an Onos, and as an Onos, you should have enough resources so you instantly respawn with like your 100 cap from overflow to the Hive Mind.

Turret Farming means the Marines are going to lose. My strategy and growing of many others and from Cyanide where I learned it, do not even build a Turret in spawn

If the Marines or Aliens camp, they lose, that simple, the team who camps teh most loses, why, because you need RT and Hives locked down, as either race

Edit: Fix the silence bug, fix the fade bug, fix fix fix, I ca'nt stand Bilebomb being useless, same with Xenocide NOT doing splash damage like it should

evoLvingeviL · November 2002

Absolutely insane turret farming should still be discouraged. There should be a high but actual limit to how many turrets in an area, much like webbing (OTowers have a limit too, already, I think...) Perhaps there <i>is</i> a limit for turrets, but if there really was more than 20 or 30 turrets in the Marine room, that's a little ridiculous and it should be prevented.

FoxFlame · November 2002

Level 3 Redemption always works for me. Sometimes it works too well. I've been "redeemed" as an Onos with over 200 of my total 500 health still remaining. It could have waited before teleporting me, I could have done more damage <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

I've also been redeemed at the very very last second, and died back at the hive somehow <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> Apparently I was dead, but got redeemed, then at the last second the server decided I should have died, and just killed me there. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'> heh

--Fox

Lt_Warhound · November 2002

First, get some numbers straight. Umbra stops 6 out of 7 bullets. Not every 9th or 11th. So, yes, you can stand in front of a lot of turrets and hmgs in an umbra cloud, and survive. The grenade spam, on the other hand, would shred your lerks and gorges.

Redemption on Hera on Onos is a _bad idea, when you own all three hives. You _will redeem into a wall, too high up for a movement chamber to help. Hell, I've stop using Onos due to them getting stuck all the time, redeemed into walls, stuck while trying to jump over the corridor blocking piles of off and def chambers (people, think, the marines aren't gonna go running through the off/def chambers, so the only people you block are your own team, leave a path, damn it)

Against a turret overload like that, you just have to resort to bilebombing to kill the marines (wide splash, heavy damage, good for killing the marines, particularlly since you said they had jetpacks, i.e. no HA), and spikes/acid rockets to whittle away at the edges, slowly. And your own turrets, they can help shoot the marine turrets.

On the other hand, if you let the marines pile up the turrets like that, erh, what were you doing? You want to be slow and lazy, enjoy the crop of turrets.

If nothing else, when the game gets like this, just leave, go to another server, plenty out there. You've won, nothing left but the tedium, this is as annoying as that last lerk hiding with cloak in a vent.

This isn't definative proof of anything, except that your team of aliens didn't handle it right.

Da_Sarge · November 2002

I HIGLY disagree. In at least 80% of the games I have been in, aliens start off with the patented "RUSH THE DAMNED MARINES BEFORE THEY CAN BUILD ANYTHING" trick. It works every now and then, but if it doesn't, it at least slows em down. But if marines manage to fortify a spawn, and expand, they will begin to turret the hell outa ANYTHING. I am talking about their spawn, resource nodes, hives, important hallways/rooms etc. They can lock down the whole map, strangling off the aliens. At first, of course aliens will give resistance. They will give it all they got, and heck, they might win too. But if marines hold em back long enough, they can start rolling in the RPs, building up more and more turrets, and just drivin people crazy.

As for the lag issue, YES turret farms really do affect the ping. I can't even begin to count how many times servers have crashed when a massive alien army runs into a super fortified turret spawn. That really effects the game play.

In the end, I say there definately SHOULD be a limit on turret usage for marines, somewhat similar to aliens, but they should get a higher max. Considering if you take down their turret fac, they all go down anyways.

wlibaers · November 2002

I agree, limit those <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>
Now, the game ends in a standoff too easily, where aliens own the map but can't get into the marine base without a very long fight. No fun for the aliens who have to cross the whole map just to die, no fun for the marines who can't get out of their base witohut running into a herd of onos.
The opposite, aliens stopping the marines at their last hive, is very improbable because after a while marines get guns that rip though the alien towers easily if they work together.

Shadowics · November 2002

As far as turrets go, I have seen many, many marines turrets farms. Aliens have a limit on OCs and DCs or else they could make their owr turret farms. Realistically, I could understand why aliens would have a limit but not marines, but as far as game balance, I don't. Of course, marine turrets are also more powerful - more accurate - and longer range than alien OCs.

I've heard people say that there's a limit on marine turrets also, just a few minutes ago I tried to find it myself. Starting up a lan game with a few bots, I became the marine comm and tried to build as many turrets as I could. I had almost 60 turrets off one Tfac before the game froze up (my comp's kinda old), the frame rate had been dropping the whole time. So my conclusions where; 1) Turrets do cause significant lag, probably because each one has it's own AI that needs to be computed individually by the server. 2) If there is a limit, it's so high as it might as well not exist. I've never heard of anyone reaching it.

OR-G · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FoxFlame @ Nov 16 2002, 06:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I know for a fact that there is a limit on the amount of towers you can build in an area as an alien, so I would assume the same applies to the turrets.

As for your video card, I'm surprised you're able to run at all with an old Rage 128. Is it one of those integrated chipsets build into the motherboard? I'd bet money on that single component causing 90% of the lag you experienced. Get a Geforce 2 at least. The old 128s were back in the late 90s.

As for the onos, check your math. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> 30 seconds (or less), when losing health at 100 points per second would mean they had 3000 health. Unless the admin modified the onos' life status, one of those two figures is an exaggeration, which proves you're at least exaggerating something <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'> The point I was making was that a constant stream of onos who were healed and recharged to the base after a redemption would have been able to get into the base as long as there was a fade or two bile bombing or acid rocketing the area the onos had just cleared so the marines couldn't rebuild. It's possible, I've experianced this situation before.

I can see the turret factory is directly to the left of the doorway in the first picture. You had three hives right? Get a lerk with adrenaline and umbra cloud the enterance on up until the onos get to the turret factory. If the bullets actually did do something through the umbra cloud, have a gorg standing by to heal. Simple tactics.

The marine on the box looks like he's fighting the onslaught of aliens from the south, as any good marine would have been doing at the time. Doesn't look like he wanted to be protected, he wouldn't have far to walk far from respawn if he died.

Also keep in mind that the map you were playing on was Hera, the single laggiest map in the collection. Bast isn't much better. If anyone was complaining about lag, it was probably because you were playing on that map, in a game that had probably lasted several hours, not because some commander build a dozen or so turrets.

There's no way to know if the server crashed, or if the host simply lost connection to the Internet, but I seriously doubt Marines could build so many turrets in a single area that they could crash the server.

I do think you're exaggerating a bit, but I'll ask some of those players I see on the screenshots what their thoughts were if I see them and they actually remember this event that is burned into your memory. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> If anything I'd say the marines were actually working together and, from what you're saying, held off the aliens long enough that they quit the game, and in effect, won the match. Bravo for them. Talk about digging in. Sounds like my kinda guys.

"Turret-taker-outer" is supposed to be the Fade's bile bomb, but if you're playing on a server where grenades do no damage to buildings you're pretty much out of luck and will have to use umbra+ono tactics, which work very well by the way. Umbra is godly, and very underused.

--Fox</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You can basically build unlimited turrets as a marine.

With a p4, 256 megs of ram, and the rage 128, he has more than enough to play the game with over 30 fps constantly even in large battles in open areas.

How would the onos get healed? He would have to run quite far to get healed right? Or maybe have some gorges sit by, but on that map, marines can grenade spam any space outside their base. All while rebuilding more turrets, or repairing their current turrets. If they had over 100 turrets an onos will not live much longer than 10 seconds.... if that.

A 100 turrets, every 5 or so bullets blocked, that lerk would die in a five seconds even with umbra.The gorge is sitting there too. He would die in a couple seconds even with umbra.

And digging out a base with turrets and crap is usually just lame. Could you imagine a clan game where a good clan vs an ok clan were playing and the ok clan decided to put thousands of turrets in their base in the beggining so that the game would have to be a draw? I bet no one would want to play that clan again.

Jasper · November 2002

Stuff that the <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> need at least 3 nozzles and cc and stuff.....to win. stuff aliens need 3 hives 4-5 nozzles and stuff. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Gibby · November 2002

That IS ridiculous. There should never be that many turrets, for lag and playability reasons as well as gameflow. If I recall, during the RC stage in alpha, the mod had rp nodes made to give less so that games would be shorter. Thus, there is a movement on getting games to shorten. Be it by Flayra or whatever.

There should be no more than 5 turrets (and 1 seige) per info_location on the map. And that bilebomb thing is being fixed.

Also fix the exploit about the turret factory/build thing with turrets. It's adressed in another post on the boards.

Vektuz · November 2002

Use bile bomb... why do I say this? It currently is BUGGED but in the next version will be fixed. At that point it should be a lot harder to infest the map with so many turrets... so this problem is only temporary...

Flayra · November 2002

Yep, I plan on limiting marine structures just like limiting alien structures. This will be out in the next server update I imagine.

Acrobad · November 2002

Thank you flayra, this is what i really wanted to hear...

FoxFlame, I really don't think you get my point, but I'll state them again:

1.) The turrets in the picture is just a portion of what is actually inside. Do you see how narrow the view is? What about the other half of the base?

2.) The Turrets rendering is not what's really causing the lag. The beeping sound and firing sound is causing it. It's deafening.

3.) The point is not that the server or me is not sufficient for the game. The point is that NS's lowest requirement, which I have exceeded, is not effective if this mindless turret farm was allowed.

I probably won't reply anymore since I've got the voice I wanted to hear. I just don't want any misunderstanding of my thread.

BioHazard · November 2002

what we usually do is get our invisibility go to there door as lerks and fades...
have two men sneak to door to open it one stand still one rushes in..
the inviso guy at door keeps it open then we stand way back and spore and splash the marines till they cant even respawn before dying.<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>
pisses em off when they hold up like that and they normally go readyroom on us.

Fabricated · November 2002

Turrets just need to be limited so they don't crash the server, that's all if you ask me. I've seen areas with 20+ turrets get taken out fairly quickly.

Slycaster · November 2002

Mines also should be limited, they do serious server damage. More then 25 mines in a map will terribly slow down server performance.

Shrike3O · November 2002

Heh... i think we were on a different server, but here's my proof:

<img src='http://shrike30.homestead.com/files/resource.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://shrike30.homestead.com/files/base.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Trust me. There needs to be a limit. Those were early shots... we put up at least three times that many as the game progressed, until we crashed the server.

Shrike3O · November 2002

I should expand on those comments... the aliens had smashed us all the way back into our spawn. We should have been about 5 minutes from game end. Instead, TWO HOURS LATER the server crashed. The simple act of forcing our way out of the area, and setting up some 30+ sentry guns PER ROOM was allowing us to expand through brute force alone. Had the servers not crashed, the aliens would have lost simply due to their inability to attack against something like this.

I was on a modem. Playing as the aliens (which i did for the first half of the game) those rooms kicked my framerate (which is usually 70 in NS) down to the decimal places. They drove my latency from about 400 to 2000 or greater. It's not just his computer <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Shadowics · November 2002

Good screen shots Shrike, that's what I hate seeing. The worst part is it can't really ever work. Because each turret has it's own little AI making them in large quantities is bound to crash any server. And turrets farms can't really 'attack', just stop aliens. All they are good for in those numbers is forcing a stalemate.

The Definite Prove That Turrets Have To Be Limited

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