Comm, What To Build First And When, Ect
shenk
Join Date: 2004-05-29 Member: 28977Members
Join Date: 2004-05-29 Member: 28977Members
Firsty, I apologize if this has been posted before and I've also took a look at the ns guides and faqs post but haven't seen one like this.
As I'm getting more into commander I decided to make this topic and see what does the pro and fully experienced commanders build in the early game, midgame and endgame. My very problem yet is that I still don't know what to make first and what to upgrade secondly and so on.
Separate both game time like the following:
"Early Game:
Buildings: bla bla
Updates: bla bla
Objective: bla bla"
And so on.
Or if someone's write up here a link showing that all up I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
As I'm getting more into commander I decided to make this topic and see what does the pro and fully experienced commanders build in the early game, midgame and endgame. My very problem yet is that I still don't know what to make first and what to upgrade secondly and so on.
Separate both game time like the following:
"Early Game:
Buildings: bla bla
Updates: bla bla
Objective: bla bla"
And so on.
Or if someone's write up here a link showing that all up I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
Comments
I can't really write specific times, as the performance of your Marines affects the game the most. You can have the order of actions, but not the precise time when they occur.
<a href='http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2499' target='_blank'>This thread</a> on <a href='http://www.lunixmonster.org/' target='_blank'>Lunixmonster</a> is a great guide for commanders. Check the "build orders" part - that's what you are looking for.
Happy commanding!
<span style='font-size:3pt;line-height:100%'>Yeah right.</span>
So instead of learning planned strategies (with can work), learn the various counters to what the other team can do, then on the fly choose which counters you are going to use. It may be all well and good that your going for a HA rush, but if the alien team rushes fades then you're not going to get the chance to dish out your HA.
armory
RTs.. alot
adv armory (sometimes)
armslab
check RTs
obs
check rts
proto
check RTs
actually.. you should always check RTs
MT first would go: IP, Armory, Obs->MT, Armslab-> Armor 1.
Armor 1 first would go: IP, Armory, Armslab -> Armor 1.
In both cases you fit in RTs as the marines arrive at them...
From the Armslab approach you can go two routes, the normal one with phase tech and continous upgrading and a reasonably quick Adv. Armory, or you slow the rest of the tech down for a quicker Adv. Armory.
I think I got it somewhat right, anyone with experience want to correct anything?
RTs for me take priotity in everything. Absolute everything.
I never up weapons or catpack before I got armor2
MT or PG first, and both soon.
I usually upgrade the armory upon build. Nothing says respect as a HMG pounding a fade, by that time you usually also have dmg1. (hey, if its upped you do not need to hand HMG, point is you can when needed)
never protect base with anythin above mines.
skulk can be shot (by you) or hit a lovely mine. Gorges should not even get close to base, lerks can either be shot or ambushed by rines, onos is a joke, and for fade I beacon.
There is no reason EVER why beacon is crap exept perhaps on asaulting hive. I prefer to lose my adv armory and they a hive.. I say, nice trade. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A onos inbase is a player wasting 75 res. Like I said, I have adv armory soon.. I dump HMGs, beacon, by onos. bye.. *waves*
Unless, of course, your comm is <i>even smarter</i>, in which case he will build a secret obs somewhere else.
Other games ur gonna need 2 ip's an armory and an obs....
Sometimes ur gonna need 3-4 ip's cuz ur team cant help dying
Sometimes ur gonna need 2ip's armories and mines because they base rush you
other tiems you can do one ip and 4 resnodes because the aliens just arent doing anything productive
Generally though,
There are two types of upgrades, the good ones and the bad ones
AN hmg (just one) is an example of a bad upgrade (under most circumstances)
Armor, Weapons, MT, grenades, are all good upgrades, these are applied to EVERY vanilla marine for Free after they are researched
Getting these upgrades to your "free" marines ASAP, upgrades that do not disappear upon death, can increase the odds in your favor tremendously..... Though a choice shottie or two will be needed for the fades, spamming 100 res worth of shotguns will not get you the same effect as weapons 3, armor 2 3 shotties and 2 welders (both 100 res if i did the math correctly)
I love to get ONLY upgrades that are automatically given to all marines until the 7 minute mark... Fade or not....
By then with 4 nodes and decent RFK i will have an adv armory, W3 and A3 almost done, Phase tech, grenades, and MT almost done...(sometimes in different order, depending on marine request and situation (first chamber, or bad team, ect))
There is no good build order... NONE.... except the one that fits the marine team and alien team for this particular game..... it changes every game based both on your team, AND the aliens...
~Jason
ip, armory, arms lab, mines, rt, a1, rt, meds, ammo as needed, rts, obs, pg, a2, advanced armory.
If the marines are dominating, then I just cap as much as I can and tech up to a3, w1, hmgs/sgs/mines/welders and siege out their hives.
If there is a stalemate of sorts, i keep upgrades, toss out the occasional hmg and sg, and keep attacking their rts. get MT, tech to train.
If i know there is an ubar fade over on the other team, I'll tech to hmgs much sooner.
Assault a hive at around 4:30 ish, 5 minutes. Ideally take down their second buiulding hive.
When you are not teching, you should be telling marines which areas to focus pressure on, usually one group or person on the hive, and the rest taking down alien rts. In general importance, orders are
Cap rts
Pressure hive and take down rts
Defend your rts ( of minor importance, you can always recap)
Take down hive.
Weapons and equipment should always be given for a reason and objective. Waypoints should always follow orders (some ppl don't know places by name, and some of those ppl are too embarassed to ask). High traffic chokepoints should have mines and a PG.
HTH
In case no one mentioned the reasons behind the armor 1 first and the immediate weapons 2 after weapons 1, let me explain:
An armor 0 marine will take 2 hits to kill with the skulk bite.
An armor 1 marine will take 3 hits to kill with the skulk bite.
That means he will last 50% longer. Also, a welder actually becomes somewhat useful at this point, although that isn't a major reason for getting armor1 first.
A weapons 0 LMG will take 9 hits to kill a hive 1 skulk.
A weapons 1 LMG will take 9 hits to kill a hive 1 skulk.
A weapons 2 LMG will take 8 hits to kill a hive 1 skulk.
Weapons 1 adds no benefit for LMGs against hive 1 skulks. Weapons 2 adds a decent amount of benefit.
Duh.
Many times public commanders refuse to drop HMGs, believing shotguns are superior. This is false, get over it and give out HMGs... especially if you have one or a couple of marines on the team that is obviously above average, they can and probably will win you the game if they get HMGs and proper med + ammo support.
Besides.. I watch MT, see incoming into base, listen, and if it sounds like onos I aint gona wait till he is near the obs.. i got it selected and ready to beacon. No obs can outgore a beacon, even if he tries.
I took it out, because 2 of 8 had a link to the article in his post.
IP...IP...armory...arms lab...armor 1...couple Rts...Obs...phase tech...adv. armory...MT..and finish off weapons
worked for the passed 10+ games i commed and won.
IP...IP...armory...arms lab...armor 1...couple Rts...Obs...phase tech...adv. armory...MT..and finish off weapons
worked for the passed 10+ games i commed and won. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 IPs are a waste first thing. If your marines are dying that much early in the game, then something is going wrong.
of course, if the alien team sucks, none of this applies.
2 IPs are a waste first thing. If your marines are dying that much early in the game, then something is going wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they don't die that fast but theres always a decent amount of people dieing and i don't want to hold up spawning or don't want people bothering me about a second IP while i comm. i just prefer 2 IPs, and just in case the base gets attacked, theres a higher chance of killing the alien.
Also four additional resource towers is more than enough to sustain a marine team. After you have 4, concentrate most of your efforts on destroying alien resource towers. Too often comms will go around and build all the free nodes but neglect to pressure the alien team at all.
This rule is maybe on every upgrade true, as long as you have it before the enemy wants you to have it.
This rule is important for:
Phase Tech: If you get it early , you may be able to seperate the skulks from the half of the map, by protecting the middle hive. Very important to marine and reinforcements get much omre faster into action.
Armor Upgrade 1: When you do it instantly, skulks need to hit you 3 time.
This affects on every marine on your time, so think about it. You will see that your marines have a great advantage on "first contacts".
Armory Upgrade: Doing it instantly brings you also huge advantages. If your team is doing right, you have enough ressources to counter the first fades with HMGs, which is for them "unusual" in many games. Players who are fades suspect a crowd of LMG marines and are aware of shotguns, but can get surprised if HMGs come into the game.
so I would say, depending which strat is most important for you, choose one upgrade as "instant upgrade" and let develope the rest of the game.
IP...IP...armory...arms lab...armor 1...couple Rts...Obs...phase tech...adv. armory...MT..and finish off weapons
worked for the passed 10+ games i commed and won. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 IPs are a waste first thing. If your marines are dying that much early in the game, then something is going wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haven't you read about SDJason's 6 IP strat?
IP...IP...armory...arms lab...armor 1...couple Rts...Obs...phase tech...adv. armory...MT..and finish off weapons
worked for the passed 10+ games i commed and won. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 IPs are a waste first thing. If your marines are dying that much early in the game, then something is going wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haven't you read about SDJason's 6 IP strat? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I haven't. Do you have a link I can read?
That second IP res could have gone to armor1, the obs, an rt, phase gates, etc. Even placing it 1 minute into the game is better than instantly.
Duh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, hive 1 and 2 skulks take 5 bullets from the HMG to die, yet w2 brings it to 4.
22 dmg, 90 total hp, you've got 2 hp after 4 shots with w1.
IP...IP...armory...arms lab...armor 1...couple Rts...Obs...phase tech...adv. armory...MT..and finish off weapons
worked for the passed 10+ games i commed and won. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 IPs are a waste first thing. If your marines are dying that much early in the game, then something is going wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haven't you read about SDJason's 6 IP strat? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I haven't. Do you have a link I can read?
That second IP res could have gone to armor1, the obs, an rt, phase gates, etc. Even placing it 1 minute into the game is better than instantly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My 6 ip strat always starts out with 1-2 ip's and builds more as the obs techs up...
Basically i shoot for phase tech, armor 1, grenades, and as many friggin ip's as i can have by the 3 minute mark
At 3 minutes i beacon rush a hive.. get a pg up... grenade/lmg everything, and when you outspawn the aliens 6-1 you win no problem, even if the aliens have 1 fade by then (usually not) well.... kill it... 6-1 spawn rate and kill the hive
~Jason
Also four additional resource towers is more than enough to sustain a marine team. After you have 4, concentrate most of your efforts on destroying alien resource towers. Too often comms will go around and build all the free nodes but neglect to pressure the alien team at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its better to tech ASAP because you want your rines to survive skulk ambushes as they traverse the map. The sooner you get the upgrades, the more nodes you'll be able to get since your rines won't die so easily.
It might be a good idea to tech the armory first before you push for phase tech. More games are being won with heavy weapons instead of phase gates and hive lockdowns.
You shouldn't stop at 4 resource nodes; your marines should be pushing across the map on both (or all) sides, capping AND destroying nodes.
It does work....
ALiens rack up uber insane kills, the battle is intense as all friggin hell...
But id say 7/10 times it does work
And the rfk you get you just keep teching up, in case it doesent, you have something to fall back on.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->