I think one of the largest problems in public schools right now is the sports. Tons of money gets wasted on sports teams that could definatly be better spent. Not to mention all the shinanigans that get played by the school to ensure that every member fo the football team can get good enough grades to remain on the team...
Yeah, public schools definatly need a total reworking, but who in power is going to have the balls to do that?
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 2 2005, 03:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 2 2005, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think one of the largest problems in public schools right now is the sports. Tons of money gets wasted on sports teams that could definatly be better spent. Not to mention all the shinanigans that get played by the school to ensure that every member fo the football team can get good enough grades to remain on the team...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh don't get me started on the sports teams...mainly football. When I was in high-school I ran cross country every year, and while I wasn't a major factor to our winnings, I like to think I did alright. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway we won...ever single year...often going undefeated...we didn't even get new uniforms, because no one really gave two shits about running.
Meanwhile our football team, which sucked to high heaven, can barely manage to win two games all season...every single year. Naturally they got new uniforms, new equipment, much money was spent to put extra bleachers on the football field. God help you if you criticized the football team in school, not only would the players kill you but most of the male faculty as well.
The simple answer is to completely remove football from high-school...of course you would have an easier time removing math. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah, public schools definatly need a total reworking, but who in power is going to ahve the balls to do that?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody.
As is sort of stated above, it will probably take something major, like a huge depression, or a major war until our school system is ether fixed it caves in. Trust me nothing would get the government to fix the schools quicker then finding out half the country is too dumb to work any new military technology during a major crisis. Or for that matter even be able to comprehend the basics of map reading and squad tactics. Of course by then it could be too late.
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 2 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 2 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The simple answer is to completely remove football from high-school...of course you would have an easier time removing math. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally I think we should remove all sports. That sort of thing should be done the same way little league is and not be affiliated with the school in any way. But like you said, it would be easier to remove math.
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 2 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 2 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 2 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 2 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The simple answer is to completely remove football from high-school...of course you would have an easier time removing math. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally I think we should remove all sports. That sort of thing should be done the same way little league is and not be affiliated with the school in any way. But like you said, it would be easier to remove math. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well not if you cut the schools funding some, I know my high school spends over 2.5 million dollars a year and we are starting to cut stuff out, which sports come first (of course we are a blue ribbon school so its a lot of academics and no school spirit). We are also the wealthiest county in the state, which means all the other schools are going to be cutting stuff as well.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mad Man+Feb 2 2005, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mad Man @ Feb 2 2005, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 2 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 2 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 2 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 2 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The simple answer is to completely remove football from high-school...of course you would have an easier time removing math. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally I think we should remove all sports. That sort of thing should be done the same way little league is and not be affiliated with the school in any way. But like you said, it would be easier to remove math. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well not if you cut the schools funding some, I know my high school spends over 2.5 million dollars a year and we are starting to cut stuff out, which sports come first (of course we are a blue ribbon school so its a lot of academics and no school spirit). We are also the wealthiest county in the state, which means all the other schools are going to be cutting stuff as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like my school. Mayhaps you live in New Jersey?
Agreed on the jersey thing, welcome to half of the music program disappearing while football gets new uniforms and new sleds to hit.
In any case, I don't find it surprising at all about the high school students not knowing. To be completely honest, public school is not the best breeding ground for free speech. Different view points are surpressed quickly by faculty in the younger grades and by the time that one really reaches an age to think, the urge to question is somewhat supressed. Why express a different view point if all that happens is ridicule and punishment? Thus, let us just go with everything they tell us. Flag burning is bad in every single way, and thus must also be illegal.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Jan 31 2005, 11:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Jan 31 2005, 11:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, seen one way, freedom of religion is an extension of freedom of speech. So it seems like that's an unethical and dishonest position to value one subset more than another. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> One could argue that in reverse as religion is a control method. (Check out families that refuse to give their dying child medical treatment but have no qualms about spawning 15+ children)
edit: This isn't to insult anyone. But seriously, religion DOES modify behavior, sometimes for the best, sometimes not.
What's so bad about modifying behavior? Someone being hungry modifies their behavior; someone being drunk modifies their behavior; someone being exposed to certain stigma alters their behavior. When you get right down to it, there's no "default" behavior for everyone. Religion doesn't usually make people evil - it only seems that way because evil people use religion to further their own ends.
Besides, you could also argue that wearing short skirts is also a control method, to raise the social status of females who wear them by appealing to innate male sex drives, and in order to retain this status these females tend towards obsessive consumerism (aka fashion trends). how about them apples?
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheee+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheee)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's so bad about modifying behavior? [...]Religion doesn't usually make people evil - it only seems that way because evil people use religion to further their own ends.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-cwag+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cwag)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This isn't to insult anyone. But seriously, religion DOES modify behavior, <b>sometimes for the best, sometimes not</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing explicitly wrong with changing behavior, but it could be wrong. Alcohol changing a rational man's behavior into a violent stupor would be a bad change. Religious fanaticism causing someone to blow himself up because he believes it's the right thing to do is bad. In the case of the suicide bomber, you could argue that someone is using religion to manipulate people to further his own ends, but the actual suicide bomber's perception of reality was changed by his religion. The "evil people" alone aren't enough, they need something to use as leverage - religion, patriotism, something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Besides, you could also argue that wearing short skirts is also a control method, to raise the social status of females who wear them by appealing to innate male sex drives, and in order to retain this status these females tend towards obsessive consumerism (aka fashion trends). how about them apples? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course it could be considered a control method. That doesn't mean that religion <u>can't</u> be considered a control method.
I'm just using it to point out that whether something constitutes a "control method" isn't something you can base any judgement on. Since law in and of itself is a control method.
Judgement of what? What is good vs what is bad? Let us please not get into that law vs morality vs whatever discussion again, cause I never understood it in the first place <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Feb 8 2005, 07:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Feb 8 2005, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm just using it to point out that whether something constitutes a "control method" isn't something you can base any judgement on. Since law in and of itself is a control method. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 8 2005, 09:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 8 2005, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Feb 8 2005, 07:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Feb 8 2005, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm just using it to point out that whether something constitutes a "control method" isn't something you can base any judgement on. Since law in and of itself is a control method. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I resent that. I don't do the religious things I do because I'm afraid of Hell. I do them because the community work feels good.
On the other hand, there <i>are</i> those intimidated by damnation to be good....just remember to nix the broad generalizations. There are bad/messed up people in every culture and religion, I think we can all agree on that. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My problem is that I've seen alot of people give up great oppertunities over something that may not even exist and I think if there truly is a god then it/he/she would want you to live life to the fullest.
Oh, you mean the opportunity to get rich and live comfortably as "powerful people" at the expense of what they actually did, which is to galvanize people for countless centuries to be selfless and compassionate to others. I'm sorry, they definitely shouldn't have given up their right to be social badasses.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Defensive? When people that usually trash on your beliefs every day use arguments that sound pretty close to yours, you can't help but be suspicious.
Fear of eternal damnation is another thing, start a topic about it if you want. Here's a start: how are you distinguishing between fear of eternal damnation and fear of social rejection? [/OT]
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Feb 8 2005, 10:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Feb 8 2005, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [OT] Great opportunities? Like what?
Oh, you mean the opportunity to get rich and live comfortably as "powerful people" at the expense of what they actually did, which is to galvanize people for countless centuries to be selfless and compassionate to others. I'm sorry, they definitely shouldn't have given up their right to be social badasses.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Defensive? When people that usually trash on your beliefs every day use arguments that sound pretty close to yours, you can't help but be suspicious.
Fear of eternal damnation is another thing, start a topic about it if you want. Here's a start: how are you distinguishing between fear of eternal damnation and fear of social rejection? [/OT] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Would it be OK with you if you were controlled mentally with some sort of physical device? That isn't much different than a device that is a social creation.
Instead of throwing in my giant psuedo-essay on American school systems out here. Let me say this: it needs to be far less forgiving. I've seen far to many idiots who don't even know the capital of their own state graduate (completely serious).
When you don't even know your local geography you know you're in trouble. I can understand not knowing the order of the planets, or missing out on chemistry...but civics interacts with your well-being in a fundamental way and you're crazy if you pay no attention to history/civics classes.
My AP Physics teacher once said "An A is 90-100%, so if you get an A in my class, I expect you to have remembered at least 90% of the material." And I can guarantee people who got Bs and Cs damn well don't remember half of the stuff they learned while they were learning it. I think that quote is actually a pretty good place to start from. It's pretty much the same system a lot of my college professors seem to use (though they don't say it).
...Too bad I had to go to this crap school because it was the cheapest one (pffft, scholarships, too much work...I'm like the guy in that one OT thread...except the whole dropping out thing - screw that, I'm going to Germany <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
[Social Studies is a retarded name for a subject...just wanted to make that clear <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ]
The biggest problem with the school system results from a couple things, the "Factory" school scheduling system, and forcing people to learn one way. For example I could fall asleep in school and still learn pretty well just from hearing the teacher talk. Some people learn by listening, others learn by visual aid, others still learn from working with their hands. By just mixing all those together you force kids to fail at everything else and do superb on their niche.
Also about the factory thing. Its sad, but the reason schools are formatted they way they are is to prepare the majority of them for manual labor jobs.
I used to be a good student up untill about 5th grade when suddenly I had this problem that just boggled everyone. I would go home, do my homework, all of it, in about 30 minutes, but I'd never turn it in. It wasn't a challenge at all, and i loathed sitting in a class room twiddling my fingers because little johnny can't add 1+1. So I got lazy. I retained the knowledge, aced my tests, but never touched homework.
I think if kids had a chance to learn their way seperately, with smaller class rooms, we would be alot better off. (Also don't tell me thats expensive, it could be paid for probably just with the "Blow up a small village in poorland" fund.)
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 9 2005, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 9 2005, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think if kids had a chance to learn their way seperately, with smaller class rooms, we would be alot better off. (Also don't tell me thats expensive, it could be paid for probably just with the "Blow up a small village in poorland" fund.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This sounds very similar to the <a href='http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CW312MI.html' target='_blank'>Montessori Philosophy of teaching.</a> There are quite a few of these schools around but I'm not so sure of their success rates.
UZiEight inches of C4 between the legs.Join Date: 2003-02-20Member: 13767Members
Sure it's no big deal, until you've had it taken away.
Seriously these can go live in a country where you never had it in the first place. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Spooge+Feb 9 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spooge @ Feb 9 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 9 2005, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 9 2005, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think if kids had a chance to learn their way seperately, with smaller class rooms, we would be alot better off. (Also don't tell me thats expensive, it could be paid for probably just with the "Blow up a small village in poorland" fund.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This sounds very similar to the <a href='http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CW312MI.html' target='_blank'>Montessori Philosophy of teaching.</a> There are quite a few of these schools around but I'm not so sure of their success rates. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have several friends who went to them in elementary school. They say they were underprepared for high school, but very prepared for college.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Feb 9 2005, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Feb 9 2005, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Spooge+Feb 9 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spooge @ Feb 9 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 9 2005, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 9 2005, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think if kids had a chance to learn their way seperately, with smaller class rooms, we would be alot better off. (Also don't tell me thats expensive, it could be paid for probably just with the "Blow up a small village in poorland" fund.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This sounds very similar to the <a href='http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CW312MI.html' target='_blank'>Montessori Philosophy of teaching.</a> There are quite a few of these schools around but I'm not so sure of their success rates. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have several friends who went to them in elementary school. They say they were underprepared for high school, but very prepared for college. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My life story. (This isn't gloating) In 7th grade I had reading comprehension equal to a college junior. I failed every math class in existance however. Thats just one example of a need for change
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 9 2005, 11:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 9 2005, 11:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My life story. (This isn't gloating) In 7th grade I had reading comprehension equal to a college junior. I failed every math class in existance however. Thats just one example of a need for change <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh I know what that’s like, I always managed to pass my math class, just barely, but I would always ace my English/Lit. classes. I would mention my "History" classes as well but only a fool could fail that sorry excuse for a class, and many did none the less.
Anyway in 11th grade I got my PSAT scores back, which illustrated perfectly my abilities I was in the 99th percentile for reading comprehension and 97th for what ever the heck the other reading part is called. Of course I was in the 23rd percentile for math.
I can still remember flipping out at my mother because the first thing she said when she saw it was "oh...you did pretty bad in math..." That was also the year I failed a math course for the first time.
Anyway the point I’m trying to make is these aptitude tests that we take all through out our school career are fairly good at telling us what were good at and what we suck at. Your grades are tallied up and made painfully clear on a personalized piece of paper. Yet the results from these tests are then, for all intents and purposes, completely ignored.
The concept of a "well rounded student" is what plagues our educational system, this idiotic belief that simply exposing a kid to a subject for an hour a day will make him proficient in it. Your personal talents be damned, you may be a literary wiz, that’s nice, but if you can't make the math grade you must be an idiot, no honors for you.
Yea...our school system is an archaic joke virtually unchanged from its basic mold originally thought up before WWI.
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 10 2005, 03:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 10 2005, 03:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Feb 9 2005, 11:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Feb 9 2005, 11:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My life story. (This isn't gloating) In 7th grade I had reading comprehension equal to a college junior. I failed every math class in existance however. Thats just one example of a need for change <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh I know what that’s like, I always managed to pass my math class, just barely, but I would always ace my English/Lit. classes. I would mention my "History" classes as well but only a fool could fail that sorry excuse for a class, and many did none the less.
Anyway in 11th grade I got my PSAT scores back, which illustrated perfectly my abilities I was in the 99th percentile for reading comprehension and 97th for what ever the heck the other reading part is called. Of course I was in the 23rd percentile for math.
I can still remember flipping out at my mother because the first thing she said when she saw it was "oh...you did pretty bad in math..." That was also the year I failed a math course for the first time.
Anyway the point I’m trying to make is these aptitude tests that we take all through out our school career are fairly good at telling us what were good at and what we suck at. Your grades are tallied up and made painfully clear on a personalized piece of paper. Yet the results from these tests are then, for all intents and purposes, completely ignored.
The concept of a "well rounded student" is what plagues our educational system, this idiotic belief that simply exposing a kid to a subject for an hour a day will make him proficient in it. Your personal talents be damned, you may be a literary wiz, that’s nice, but if you can't make the math grade you must be an idiot, no honors for you.
Yea...our school system is an archaic joke virtually unchanged from its basic mold originally thought up before WWI. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow we agree on something.
Yep, the horsemen are outside my house right now. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
quick cwag, take pictures and post them <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yea I got 98 in Math, 97 in Science, 99 in reading comprehension and like an 80 something in English based on grammar (subject to a +/- 5%) resulting in a 28. I think the highest is 32...maybe it's 35? Bah, stuffs in my desk back home (maybe everyone aces the grammar and is terrible at everything else). Or something like that (if anyone <i>really</i> wants to know bump this thread near March 25th. I almost fell asleep before the second part though (4 hours of sleep = ...snore).
Anyway, I rate high in everything except grammar/word order crap. I'm like a sponge that can filter out crap. Plus I have a natural tendency towards learning. I like to experiment with tools that come with games, I prefer just about everything except Lifetime to that trash on MTV.
Maybe we need to enstill a desire to learn - with a sponge-like working memory, and take out the desire to be popular. Then you'd have <s>Japanese</s> awesome students.
You know why there's no stupid people on the forums, they can't work their computer properly; or they have a 'life' (read: they're out drinking in clubs), so they're too busy for intellectual discussions. At least we get around to them sometimes.
If we had some way to take popularity out of the equation, I'm sure we'd get intelligent students as the norm instead of the exception.
<!--QuoteBegin-UltimaGecko+Feb 11 2005, 02:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Feb 11 2005, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know why there's no stupid people on the forums, they can't work their computer properly; or they have a 'life' (read: they're out drinking in clubs), so they're too busy for intellectual discussions. At least we get around to them sometimes.
If we had some way to take popularity out of the equation, I'm sure we'd get intelligent students as the norm instead of the exception. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I'm stupid, and I'm on these forums.
I'm not sure how you'd get rid of the "popularity" factor.
Comments
Yeah, public schools definatly need a total reworking, but who in power is going to have the balls to do that?
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Heh don't get me started on the sports teams...mainly football. When I was in high-school I ran cross country every year, and while I wasn't a major factor to our winnings, I like to think I did alright. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway we won...ever single year...often going undefeated...we didn't even get new uniforms, because no one really gave two shits about running.
Meanwhile our football team, which sucked to high heaven, can barely manage to win two games all season...every single year.
Naturally they got new uniforms, new equipment, much money was spent to put extra bleachers on the football field. God help you if you criticized the football team in school, not only would the players kill you but most of the male faculty as well.
The simple answer is to completely remove football from high-school...of course you would have an easier time removing math. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah, public schools definatly need a total reworking, but who in power is going to ahve the balls to do that?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody.
As is sort of stated above, it will probably take something major, like a huge depression, or a major war until our school system is ether fixed it caves in. Trust me nothing would get the government to fix the schools quicker then finding out half the country is too dumb to work any new military technology during a major crisis. Or for that matter even be able to comprehend the basics of map reading and squad tactics. Of course by then it could be too late.
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Personally I think we should remove all sports. That sort of thing should be done the same way little league is and not be affiliated with the school in any way. But like you said, it would be easier to remove math.
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Personally I think we should remove all sports. That sort of thing should be done the same way little league is and not be affiliated with the school in any way. But like you said, it would be easier to remove math. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well not if you cut the schools funding some, I know my high school spends over 2.5 million dollars a year and we are starting to cut stuff out, which sports come first (of course we are a blue ribbon school so its a lot of academics and no school spirit). We are also the wealthiest county in the state, which means all the other schools are going to be cutting stuff as well.
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Personally I think we should remove all sports. That sort of thing should be done the same way little league is and not be affiliated with the school in any way. But like you said, it would be easier to remove math. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well not if you cut the schools funding some, I know my high school spends over 2.5 million dollars a year and we are starting to cut stuff out, which sports come first (of course we are a blue ribbon school so its a lot of academics and no school spirit). We are also the wealthiest county in the state, which means all the other schools are going to be cutting stuff as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like my school. Mayhaps you live in New Jersey?
In any case, I don't find it surprising at all about the high school students not knowing. To be completely honest, public school is not the best breeding ground for free speech. Different view points are surpressed quickly by faculty in the younger grades and by the time that one really reaches an age to think, the urge to question is somewhat supressed. Why express a different view point if all that happens is ridicule and punishment? Thus, let us just go with everything they tell us. Flag burning is bad in every single way, and thus must also be illegal.
One could argue that in reverse as religion is a control method. (Check out families that refuse to give their dying child medical treatment but have no qualms about spawning 15+ children)
edit: This isn't to insult anyone. But seriously, religion DOES modify behavior, sometimes for the best, sometimes not.
Besides, you could also argue that wearing short skirts is also a control method, to raise the social status of females who wear them by appealing to innate male sex drives, and in order to retain this status these females tend towards obsessive consumerism (aka fashion trends). how about them apples?
<!--QuoteBegin-cwag+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cwag)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This isn't to insult anyone. But seriously, religion DOES modify behavior, <b>sometimes for the best, sometimes not</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing explicitly wrong with changing behavior, but it could be wrong. Alcohol changing a rational man's behavior into a violent stupor would be a bad change. Religious fanaticism causing someone to blow himself up because he believes it's the right thing to do is bad. In the case of the suicide bomber, you could argue that someone is using religion to manipulate people to further his own ends, but the actual suicide bomber's perception of reality was changed by his religion. The "evil people" alone aren't enough, they need something to use as leverage - religion, patriotism, something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Besides, you could also argue that wearing short skirts is also a control method, to raise the social status of females who wear them by appealing to innate male sex drives, and in order to retain this status these females tend towards obsessive consumerism (aka fashion trends). how about them apples? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course it could be considered a control method. That doesn't mean that religion <u>can't</u> be considered a control method.
Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS.
Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I resent that. I don't do the religious things I do because I'm afraid of Hell. I do them because the community work feels good.
On the other hand, there <i>are</i> those intimidated by damnation to be good....just remember to nix the broad generalizations. There are bad/messed up people in every culture and religion, I think we can all agree on that. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Great opportunities? Like what?
Oh, you mean the opportunity to get rich and live comfortably as "powerful people" at the expense of what they actually did, which is to galvanize people for countless centuries to be selfless and compassionate to others. I'm sorry, they definitely shouldn't have given up their right to be social badasses.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Defensive? When people that usually trash on your beliefs every day use arguments that sound pretty close to yours, you can't help but be suspicious.
Fear of eternal damnation is another thing, start a topic about it if you want. Here's a start: how are you distinguishing between fear of eternal damnation and fear of social rejection?
[/OT]
Great opportunities? Like what?
Oh, you mean the opportunity to get rich and live comfortably as "powerful people" at the expense of what they actually did, which is to galvanize people for countless centuries to be selfless and compassionate to others. I'm sorry, they definitely shouldn't have given up their right to be social badasses.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said though, modifying behavior isn't inherently bad...you really seem defensive about it though. Heh also, you're manipulating my words. Behavior changing isn't bad, but controlling someone through fear of eternal damnation, IS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Defensive? When people that usually trash on your beliefs every day use arguments that sound pretty close to yours, you can't help but be suspicious.
Fear of eternal damnation is another thing, start a topic about it if you want. Here's a start: how are you distinguishing between fear of eternal damnation and fear of social rejection?
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Would it be OK with you if you were controlled mentally with some sort of physical device? That isn't much different than a device that is a social creation.
When you don't even know your local geography you know you're in trouble. I can understand not knowing the order of the planets, or missing out on chemistry...but civics interacts with your well-being in a fundamental way and you're crazy if you pay no attention to history/civics classes.
My AP Physics teacher once said "An A is 90-100%, so if you get an A in my class, I expect you to have remembered at least 90% of the material." And I can guarantee people who got Bs and Cs damn well don't remember half of the stuff they learned while they were learning it. I think that quote is actually a pretty good place to start from. It's pretty much the same system a lot of my college professors seem to use (though they don't say it).
...Too bad I had to go to this crap school because it was the cheapest one (pffft, scholarships, too much work...I'm like the guy in that one OT thread...except the whole dropping out thing - screw that, I'm going to Germany <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
[Social Studies is a retarded name for a subject...just wanted to make that clear <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ]
Also about the factory thing. Its sad, but the reason schools are formatted they way they are is to prepare the majority of them for manual labor jobs.
I used to be a good student up untill about 5th grade when suddenly I had this problem that just boggled everyone. I would go home, do my homework, all of it, in about 30 minutes, but I'd never turn it in. It wasn't a challenge at all, and i loathed sitting in a class room twiddling my fingers because little johnny can't add 1+1. So I got lazy. I retained the knowledge, aced my tests, but never touched homework.
I think if kids had a chance to learn their way seperately, with smaller class rooms, we would be alot better off. (Also don't tell me thats expensive, it could be paid for probably just with the "Blow up a small village in poorland" fund.)
This sounds very similar to the <a href='http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CW312MI.html' target='_blank'>Montessori Philosophy of teaching.</a> There are quite a few of these schools around but I'm not so sure of their success rates.
Seriously these can go live in a country where you never had it in the first place. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This sounds very similar to the <a href='http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CW312MI.html' target='_blank'>Montessori Philosophy of teaching.</a> There are quite a few of these schools around but I'm not so sure of their success rates. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have several friends who went to them in elementary school. They say they were underprepared for high school, but very prepared for college.
This sounds very similar to the <a href='http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CW312MI.html' target='_blank'>Montessori Philosophy of teaching.</a> There are quite a few of these schools around but I'm not so sure of their success rates. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have several friends who went to them in elementary school. They say they were underprepared for high school, but very prepared for college. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My life story. (This isn't gloating) In 7th grade I had reading comprehension equal to a college junior. I failed every math class in existance however. Thats just one example of a need for change
Heh I know what that’s like, I always managed to pass my math class, just barely, but I would always ace my English/Lit. classes. I would mention my "History" classes as well but only a fool could fail that sorry excuse for a class, and many did none the less.
Anyway in 11th grade I got my PSAT scores back, which illustrated perfectly my abilities I was in the 99th percentile for reading comprehension and 97th for what ever the heck the other reading part is called. Of course I was in the 23rd percentile for math.
I can still remember flipping out at my mother because the first thing she said when she saw it was "oh...you did pretty bad in math..."
That was also the year I failed a math course for the first time.
Anyway the point I’m trying to make is these aptitude tests that we take all through out our school career are fairly good at telling us what were good at and what we suck at. Your grades are tallied up and made painfully clear on a personalized piece of paper. Yet the results from these tests are then, for all intents and purposes, completely ignored.
The concept of a "well rounded student" is what plagues our educational system, this idiotic belief that simply exposing a kid to a subject for an hour a day will make him proficient in it. Your personal talents be damned, you may be a literary wiz, that’s nice, but if you can't make the math grade you must be an idiot, no honors for you.
Yea...our school system is an archaic joke virtually unchanged from its basic mold originally thought up before WWI.
Heh I know what that’s like, I always managed to pass my math class, just barely, but I would always ace my English/Lit. classes. I would mention my "History" classes as well but only a fool could fail that sorry excuse for a class, and many did none the less.
Anyway in 11th grade I got my PSAT scores back, which illustrated perfectly my abilities I was in the 99th percentile for reading comprehension and 97th for what ever the heck the other reading part is called. Of course I was in the 23rd percentile for math.
I can still remember flipping out at my mother because the first thing she said when she saw it was "oh...you did pretty bad in math..."
That was also the year I failed a math course for the first time.
Anyway the point I’m trying to make is these aptitude tests that we take all through out our school career are fairly good at telling us what were good at and what we suck at. Your grades are tallied up and made painfully clear on a personalized piece of paper. Yet the results from these tests are then, for all intents and purposes, completely ignored.
The concept of a "well rounded student" is what plagues our educational system, this idiotic belief that simply exposing a kid to a subject for an hour a day will make him proficient in it. Your personal talents be damned, you may be a literary wiz, that’s nice, but if you can't make the math grade you must be an idiot, no honors for you.
Yea...our school system is an archaic joke virtually unchanged from its basic mold originally thought up before WWI. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow we agree on something.
Yep, the horsemen are outside my house right now. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, I rate high in everything except grammar/word order crap. I'm like a sponge that can filter out crap. Plus I have a natural tendency towards learning. I like to experiment with tools that come with games, I prefer just about everything except Lifetime to that trash on MTV.
Maybe we need to enstill a desire to learn - with a sponge-like working memory, and take out the desire to be popular. Then you'd have <s>Japanese</s> awesome students.
You know why there's no stupid people on the forums, they can't work their computer properly; or they have a 'life' (read: they're out drinking in clubs), so they're too busy for intellectual discussions. At least we get around to them sometimes.
If we had some way to take popularity out of the equation, I'm sure we'd get intelligent students as the norm instead of the exception.
If we had some way to take popularity out of the equation, I'm sure we'd get intelligent students as the norm instead of the exception. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I'm stupid, and I'm on these forums.
I'm not sure how you'd get rid of the "popularity" factor.