Well atleast we know flayra is looking into the possability of porting to source. There is a post in the genral discussion with him asking for help converting maps.
I have been told that Flayra has already tried to get some modlers onboard to start work on the source models. (.?)
Only weapons and additional classes. There are many ways to improve the current tech-tree within the engines limitations. At least 2/3rds of the alien tech-tree is still never used (another 1/3rd if the remaining if you consider the last chamber not being used very often). Not to mention it's easy to predict. The marine tech-tree is a bit better, but there's plenty of things you can add without making it a weapon.
<!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Nov 15 2004, 10:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Nov 15 2004, 10:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My biggest hope for an NS sequel is a wider tech tree. Currently the number of possible units and technologies is limited by the engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I completely agree. A more varied tech tree would allow for a <b>lot</b> more strategies and varied approaches to situations. That combined with no weapon limit, which in turn means a lot more evolutions for the Kharaa.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-cannon_fodder1990+Nov 14 2004, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cannon_fodder1990 @ Nov 14 2004, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 14 2004, 01:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 14 2004, 01:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When it comes to my thoughts about future NS, I'd rather see it on the DOOM 3 engine. NS is in a world with many static things- tables are welded down and the such. Everything NS has would work just as well in the DOOM 3 engine, if not better. But Source is nice too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gah, the Doom 3 engine couldn't cut it for NS. Think about it, In NS there is often dozens of structures and players in one place (and I've only ever seen 4 monsters in one place on D3). Do you think it would have the capacity to even render that much, with full bumpmapping and kickass lighting? There would only be a few thousand people out there with a rig able to handle it. And the netcode, as far as I know, just isn't suitable for something like NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whenever the next NS game hits, it's not going to be months from now. It'll take at least a couple years for Charlie to get the engine, get his team together, start producing content, and get a title on shelves. With next-gen content creation as involved as it is and the scope of what it sounds like he's going for (which, by the way, sounds awesome!), it could easily take 3-4.
So look at the Q3, then look at Call of Duty. Elite Force 2. Or any other recent Q3-engine game compared to the original 'capabilities' of the engine. By the time the next NS rolls around, think of the hardware developments (as well as improvements to the engine) that could come about. Of any engine on the market today, D3 has the most potential for expansion. Even the upcoming Unreal Engine 3 tech is barely a few tip-toed steps beyond it in features - much of what they've added is child's play to implement once you've already got the base such as D3, but just hinges on minimum spec hardware.
Look at Quake (the original) for the best example. This game came after Doom and Doom II had started just flooding the screen with enemies and chaotic combat. But due to the radical new rendering it used, suddenly encounters in Quake were down to just a handful of monsters (if that) at once in most zones. In fact, from my understanding, many people were as upset about that shift in the combat as they are in D3's slower paced, smaller encounter combat. And then some little upstart named Valve licensed the technology and built from it over the next couple years. And look where that got us. Someone will do the same thing with D3, if Carmack's next-gen efforts don't hit first. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Only drawback is the price, unfortunately. Half a mil to license, I think. Compared to (I think) 250-350k for Unreal. I dunno, those figures could be off.
Charlie: Awesome to hear about the new plans! As you may have noticed, I'd love to see D3 goodness involved in it, but I trust you'll make the best decision for whatever you're trying to do. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Good luck!
Hopefully ns2 will make you wet your self every time you see a dark corner <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i think it'd be great if this new ns based game supports A: open standards (openGL, openAL, etc) and be avaliable on PC, Lin, and Mac... they need more good games, frankly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yes, i know that direct x is easier... but hell.
personally for 'NS2' i'd like to see massive space hulks, or even orbital coloneys with civillian/nomad populations on... that force the marines to space walk to outer sections, and have the marine ship in orbit of the hulk, and having to send in a team of marines to setup a phase gate and resource collection system (have the marines based in a ship...) have only limited resources on the ship, unless the marines send 'resource canisters' upto the ship...
more than 'kill aliens' would be nice too, other primary objectives like save civillians, clear hostile nomads & pirates out of the way... competing kaharaa hives even...
heh >_> maybe even have the option to shut down genrators so that the marines are blacked out, and are forced to rely upon flashlights and emergency lighting (unless nightvision/thermal is made avaliable to them...)
Well, just imagine the atmosphere created with moveing things, its not just sound anymore. Its alive. Maybe there are some lifters what you can use to lift onos to death instead of HMGing him <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->, like a famous door-kill. Imagine dark room with moveing walls. Fishtanks with fishes in it, movable and shootable tables and flying papers on it. Just think about the atmosphere. And then, usual NS community steps in and ruins the atmosphere with pointless noise, meantime, i am playing the old good original NS in silentness and scaryness again. Isn't that good?
And if kharaas came from science, then maybe there are science labs what are taken over by kharaa? Those maps would be good. Like a tank full of some green water and a fade in it breaving through air-wires and stuff. And one is broken ofchourse <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Talking about a bacteria what came from future industry, then maybe there is a new mutant born in single player? It should happen if every spaceship gets the kharaa through a tiny bacteria, not through some giant nest or egg..
Talking about war, then it should suck, but we never know. I just cannot see NS war fitting in real NS storyline. There other war games, one is created by SONY lately... Let those be.
Maybe upgrading NS by adding survivors in it, like you get some extra things if you rescue the scientists trapped in the vent who are hiding from the kharaa or something. That should be fun.
But talking about the atmosphere, then players create most of the atmosphere, so, the story must be good. Every map should have a readyroom where you can read the maps storyline and information about your mission, like some kind of launching pad. I know, todays NS community sucks, sorry fellas <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I hoped to find more Sci-Fi people, not just action men...
In NS2 singleplayer, great spacestation full of civillians would be good. And Kharaa is discovered somewhere in the old engines or in waste handling, but mayors keep it secret to not make people panic. So, you marines walk throug a crowd into your apartments and you have some extra missions what are secret etc..
errmmmm....what about the BUS <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuSquirrel+Nov 15 2004, 10:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Nov 15 2004, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So look at the Q3, then look at Call of Duty. Elite Force 2. Or any other recent Q3-engine game compared to the original 'capabilities' of the engine. By the time the next NS rolls around, think of the hardware developments (as well as improvements to the engine) that could come about. Of any engine on the market today, D3 has the most potential for expansion. Even the upcoming Unreal Engine 3 tech is barely a few tip-toed steps beyond it in features - much of what they've added is child's play to implement once you've already got the base such as D3, but just hinges on minimum spec hardware. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm willing to take your word for it to some extent, but there are things I'm skeptical about. The aspect of the Unreal engine 3 that was most compelling to me was the dynamic soft shadows on every object in the scene. From their description of it in the videos it seemed to be a different approach to shadowing than what is used in Doom 3. I haven't spent a significant amount of time looking at either engine (*sigh* schoolwork) but this kind of lighting seems like it would be non-trivial to implement. (The source engine, of course, can't even compete in this category.)
The other concern I have about the Doom 3 engine is its ability to handle large outdoor areas. The Source engine, I believe, has an different scheme for rendering "terrain" that is optimized for this case. From what it looks like, the city scapes in HL2 are accomplished by keeping the polycount low and the texture detail high, which can be done in any engine, but it still seems to be designed with more of a focus on outdoor areas. To my knowledge we haven't seen any really large areas in the Doom 3 engine yet. Does the Doom 3 engine have anything in terms of dynamic LOD or a terrain structure? I suspect this will become a make or break thing for next generation engines as games graduate beyond corridors into fully realized worlds. I haven't heard anything on Unreal's capability in this regard.
I could care less about a single player adventure, allthought it might be interesting, i would love all the resources to be put directly into making this an awesome multiplayer game, such as it always has been. I've been playing NS since 1.0 and have found no game in its genre which matches its levels of teamplay , cooperation and intensiveness. If NS is to be brought out of its multiplayer genre and spilled onto maintream , i hope its to bring them into a great sense of teamplay. PLZ whatever engine NS is ported too, or whatever modifications are made, don't ruin whats become a community of great players and awesome gaming!
Comments
I have been told that Flayra has already tried to get some modlers onboard to start work on the source models. (.?)
But hey we will have to wait and see
At least 2/3rds of the alien tech-tree is still never used (another 1/3rd if the remaining if you consider the last chamber not being used very often). Not to mention it's easy to predict.
The marine tech-tree is a bit better, but there's plenty of things you can add without making it a weapon.
I completely agree. A more varied tech tree would allow for a <b>lot</b> more strategies and varied approaches to situations. That combined with no weapon limit, which in turn means a lot more evolutions for the Kharaa.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Gah, the Doom 3 engine couldn't cut it for NS. Think about it, In NS there is often dozens of structures and players in one place (and I've only ever seen 4 monsters in one place on D3). Do you think it would have the capacity to even render that much, with full bumpmapping and kickass lighting? There would only be a few thousand people out there with a rig able to handle it. And the netcode, as far as I know, just isn't suitable for something like NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whenever the next NS game hits, it's not going to be months from now. It'll take at least a couple years for Charlie to get the engine, get his team together, start producing content, and get a title on shelves. With next-gen content creation as involved as it is and the scope of what it sounds like he's going for (which, by the way, sounds awesome!), it could easily take 3-4.
So look at the Q3, then look at Call of Duty. Elite Force 2. Or any other recent Q3-engine game compared to the original 'capabilities' of the engine. By the time the next NS rolls around, think of the hardware developments (as well as improvements to the engine) that could come about. Of any engine on the market today, D3 has the most potential for expansion. Even the upcoming Unreal Engine 3 tech is barely a few tip-toed steps beyond it in features - much of what they've added is child's play to implement once you've already got the base such as D3, but just hinges on minimum spec hardware.
Look at Quake (the original) for the best example. This game came after Doom and Doom II had started just flooding the screen with enemies and chaotic combat. But due to the radical new rendering it used, suddenly encounters in Quake were down to just a handful of monsters (if that) at once in most zones. In fact, from my understanding, many people were as upset about that shift in the combat as they are in D3's slower paced, smaller encounter combat. And then some little upstart named Valve licensed the technology and built from it over the next couple years. And look where that got us. Someone will do the same thing with D3, if Carmack's next-gen efforts don't hit first. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Only drawback is the price, unfortunately. Half a mil to license, I think. Compared to (I think) 250-350k for Unreal. I dunno, those figures could be off.
Charlie: Awesome to hear about the new plans! As you may have noticed, I'd love to see D3 goodness involved in it, but I trust you'll make the best decision for whatever you're trying to do. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Good luck!
That's <b>hot</b>.
yes, i know that direct x is easier... but hell.
personally for 'NS2' i'd like to see massive space hulks, or even orbital coloneys with civillian/nomad populations on... that force the marines to space walk to outer sections, and have the marine ship in orbit of the hulk, and having to send in a team of marines to setup a phase gate and resource collection system (have the marines based in a ship...) have only limited resources on the ship, unless the marines send 'resource canisters' upto the ship...
more than 'kill aliens' would be nice too, other primary objectives like save civillians, clear hostile nomads & pirates out of the way... competing kaharaa hives even...
heh >_> maybe even have the option to shut down genrators so that the marines are blacked out, and are forced to rely upon flashlights and emergency lighting (unless nightvision/thermal is made avaliable to them...)
Imagine dark room with moveing walls. Fishtanks with fishes in it, movable and shootable tables and flying papers on it. Just think about the atmosphere.
And then, usual NS community steps in and ruins the atmosphere with pointless noise, meantime, i am playing the old good original NS in silentness and scaryness again. Isn't that good?
And if kharaas came from science, then maybe there are science labs what are taken over by kharaa? Those maps would be good.
Like a tank full of some green water and a fade in it breaving through air-wires and stuff. And one is broken ofchourse <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Talking about a bacteria what came from future industry, then maybe there is a new mutant born in single player? It should happen if every spaceship gets the kharaa through a tiny bacteria, not through some giant nest or egg..
Talking about war, then it should suck, but we never know. I just cannot see NS war fitting in real NS storyline. There other war games, one is created by SONY lately... Let those be.
Maybe upgrading NS by adding survivors in it, like you get some extra things if you rescue the scientists trapped in the vent who are hiding from the kharaa or something. That should be fun.
But talking about the atmosphere, then players create most of the atmosphere, so, the story must be good. Every map should have a readyroom where you can read the maps storyline and information about your mission, like some kind of launching pad.
I know, todays NS community sucks, sorry fellas <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I hoped to find more Sci-Fi people, not just action men...
In NS2 singleplayer, great spacestation full of civillians would be good. And Kharaa is discovered somewhere in the old engines or in waste handling, but mayors keep it secret to not make people panic. So, you marines walk throug a crowd into your apartments and you have some extra missions what are secret etc..
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm willing to take your word for it to some extent, but there are things I'm skeptical about. The aspect of the Unreal engine 3 that was most compelling to me was the dynamic soft shadows on every object in the scene. From their description of it in the videos it seemed to be a different approach to shadowing than what is used in Doom 3. I haven't spent a significant amount of time looking at either engine (*sigh* schoolwork) but this kind of lighting seems like it would be non-trivial to implement. (The source engine, of course, can't even compete in this category.)
The other concern I have about the Doom 3 engine is its ability to handle large outdoor areas. The Source engine, I believe, has an different scheme for rendering "terrain" that is optimized for this case. From what it looks like, the city scapes in HL2 are accomplished by keeping the polycount low and the texture detail high, which can be done in any engine, but it still seems to be designed with more of a focus on outdoor areas. To my knowledge we haven't seen any really large areas in the Doom 3 engine yet. Does the Doom 3 engine have anything in terms of dynamic LOD or a terrain structure? I suspect this will become a make or break thing for next generation engines as games graduate beyond corridors into fully realized worlds. I haven't heard anything on Unreal's capability in this regard.
That's <b>hot</b>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bah...I think we should all replace the devour sprites with ******...that way you'd think twice before letting that onos devour you as HA.