<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> New B6 News (nov 12), What?? .... Oh boy, it's like a religious holiday held in December (I am "Politically Correct Man").. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why did Zunni add the What in the topic name?
And why did he state its like a religious holiday held in december??
Am i missign something? Or is Zunni dropping hints about a release date? Christmass day anyone??? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well as for seiges, well i dont know.... I guess it will work... Might be a little overpowered.. but it might not, i reserve judgment till ive played B6
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 13 2004, 05:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 13 2004, 05:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Nov 13 2004, 04:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Nov 13 2004, 04:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 13 2004, 02:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 13 2004, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless lerk spores were somehow nerfed or otherwise changed seiges will still be a major problem to put up, and now with the <b>added benifit of being <i>less</i> effective!</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yay for paying a set res amount simply to stand around as a marine. Better not have such a fragile effort pay off. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh yeah, and it's not like the aliens are going to try and stop the seiges, nope, no way... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That would be silly. After all those marines will all have full armor and plenty of res for meds.
<!--QuoteBegin-Steel Troll+Nov 13 2004, 05:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Steel Troll @ Nov 13 2004, 05:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> New B6 News (nov 12), What?? .... Oh boy, it's like a religious holiday held in December (I am "Politically Correct Man").. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... And why did he state its like a religious holiday held in december?? Am i missign something? Or is Zunni dropping hints about a release date? Christmass day anyone??? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hah no, it was a joke you missed. "Oh boy, it's just like Christmas" in regards to the constant "presents" of beta6 news, except you shouldn't say "Christmas" if you are being truely politically correct.
Ahem. I'm all for waiting until the release at this stage, but still, I'll certainly miss egging the pre-onos who's gestating by the dcs in the hive room. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There's 98 siege kills on our server, in 2 weeks. That's a lot of extra aliens that will be running around after beta6. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wonder what this "boost" the rines will get is then...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wonder what this "boost" the rines will get is then... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
New welder sounds, obviously <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
edited November 2004
I'm not sure what all the concerns are... If you were by the siege encampment as it was, you took 0 damage anyway (unless the siege encampment was in the hive).. Since you were not near a structure. I'm not sure what all the moaning is about.. All that happened is the need to have to stand on a structure to avoid taking damage is removed.
Good players did this anyway (as Forlorn mentioned), this just evens out the playing field for everyone else.. Please don't say standing on a DC is a "skill"....
There was a work-around for this already, it's just not everyone knew.. But if there was a conscious effort to educate the public (at least 30% as big as the "whole" scripting thing) no-one would even notice this change..
The siege does 0 more/less damage than it did, so there's no change there, it just simplified how the damage was delivered.
So I would love to see why people are complaining....
And I'd like to add... People ask me why more news release of unfinished/unconfirmed items don't happen.. I can use this thread as a perfect example of people getting a small piece of information and freaking out..
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
edited November 2004
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->WTH, it seems like the legions of ADD-addled noobs in the S&I forum who have clamored for a removal of siege damage finally won.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually this came down from the dev team (and I believe Flayra).. I&S played a 0% role in it's addition. It's simply co-incidental..
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Nov 13 2004, 09:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Nov 13 2004, 09:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can use this thread as a perfect example of people getting a small piece of information and freaking out.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well some people are wierd these days... No clue why people think sieges are too weak, they wipe out any alien structures in seconds.
well, maybe im the first to say that, but hey, lets give it a try <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Nov 13 2004, 09:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Nov 13 2004, 09:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->WTH, it seems like the legions of ADD-addled noobs in the S&I forum who have clamored for a removal of siege damage finally won.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually this came down from the dev team (and I believe Flayra).. I&S played a 0% role in it's addition. It's simply co-incidental.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's what he wants us to think. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But seriously guys, all he is doing is removing the siege damage for aliens... this is like a microscopic change and your acting as if they're destroying the game! Take it easy guys. Siege damage was never perfect, sometimes it did vertical damage to and when you were killed by siege from 50 yards away it was really annoying.
There is no real nerf to sieges.. you people overreact way too much.
Will 3.0 beta 6 be added to the list? You decide 2005 on bad playtesters! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe i didn't get your point forlorn, but don't you miss 2.01 and beta 4a ?
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Nov 13 2004, 10:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Nov 13 2004, 10:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And I'd like to add... People ask me why more news release of unfinished/unconfirmed items don't happen.. I can use this thread as a perfect example of people getting a small piece of information and freaking out.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this time people are freaking out because they <i>only</i> got a small piece of information, like Adj said. Also, I really don't understand why you guys are so afraid of people on the forums being mad about something. Forlorn hates the devs and PTs no matter what, so it's not like this actually changes anything. Frankly I think there are more people irritated about the 95% of the B6 changelog that is still hidden than there would be people who complained about the balance changes.
egging on the hive for the win. to be honest. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
seems like a cop out tbh. Siece damage to players was always cool. with the source SDK out it feels like your taking the easier route and rushing this to get a "finalised" build ready that you can port over to source and join 95% of the the halflife community. and yeah, i have read the devs position on source, and waiting on whether or not it would be worth it, but seriously, let's cut the BS. in a years time, any mod that hasnt ported to source will be left behind. if you rush b6, b7 etc. just to get a "finished" 3.0 build ready for porting you may well screw this up.
I don't get what makes you think this. They obviously don't rush things, seeing how long B6 takes/will take. Although I agree on the "in a years time, any mod that hasnt ported to source will be left behind".
<!--QuoteBegin-BlueNovember+Nov 13 2004, 07:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueNovember @ Nov 13 2004, 07:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's 98 siege kills on our server, in 2 weeks. That's a lot of extra aliens that will be running around after beta6. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, that figure shows how little of a change this is really gonna be.
14 days in 2 weeks = 7 unsieged aliens a day.
Figure about 12 peak hours a day of playtime.
7/12 = .583
Let's just drop that to .5, since some of teh seige deaths are bound to occur in off-peak hours, and You end up getting 1 Seiged alien approximately every two hours during peak game time. Now, how many of those do you think were skulks that died in one volley after spawning, or gorges who couldn't run away? If you're lucky, you'll maybe get an onos or fade egg, but still, the overall change in this being removed isn't exactly game-breaking. Really? how often is one more unseiged skulk really going to turn the game around during a hive seige?
Well said Zarius. In case no one's said it yet, welcome to the forums <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually, I'm kinda glad that gorges can heal the hive without getting killed now. That means marines might actually have to walk into the hive and kill them in order for the hive to go down. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Why was player damage removed? 'Cuz being spawnkilled is bad enough when it's done by a human being, not a shockwave. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the correct order is making something work <i>first</i> and balancing it <i>second</i>. Just my crazy ol' ideas, I know.
A general word regarding newspost frequency. Without of taking too much from Zun, I think the increasing amount of information shows that we're slowly arriving at the conclusion that our bigger changes work. Thus, we can and will now start giving you more information. So, to repeat what any developer says throughout the development process, sit tight, more is to follow.
Re: Rushing this out because we don't want to miss Source: Nope, we won't. Why should we? So far, barely 10% of the CS community has switched to CS:S. Everything points at an extended transition period. We'd be foolish not to use this, no matter whether and what engine port we're going to make.
Yeah, although people didn't switch yet because no league did at this time. As soon as CPL follows, competitive community will follow, and let's go. NS isn't in such a case: NS could take profit of a portage to become a major mod (as in, more than DoD), something it isn't probably because it came that late on the HL engine. And a load of great mods are scheduled on source (although we know only a few will get finished one day), so there's a chance NS players get to these mods one day if NS hasn't been ported at that time.
Thanks to the devs and PT for removing the one thing i hated the most about NS. Siege kills.
Keep up the good work, all your efforts are apprieciated <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I won't start discussing the tennets of the HL/HL2 community in a year's time here since any word I type will be used against me and nothing is concrete at this point, but I've got to tell you that NS has few chances at overtaking DoD unless we manage to secure serious financial backing for marketing and the like. We're at about the size of DoD before it was picked up as retail product and made a (publicially supported) entry into this, face it, bigger market.
No longer allowing sieges to damage players is a good move (now healing at the hive under siege isn't a gamble). In regards to upping the structure damage because gorges will be able to heal it now, well thats two or three less players defending the hive room from the bad guys. Once the marines push into the hive room, even 3 gorges sitting uptop healing won't be able to keep up with sieges + shotguns/lmgs/hand nades.
Umm everyone needs to remember how long it took Flarya to code this game, Porting to another engine will take alot of time. Even if they went to HL2 there would be alot of "re"coding to do because they would need to go back and fix all the hacks they did on the HL1 engine pluss add in some of the things they couldnt do before.
So if they even do announce they are porting it to another engine dont expect a release for about a year or more.
Comments
....
Oh boy, it's like a religious holiday held in December (I am "Politically Correct Man")..
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why did Zunni add the What in the topic name?
And why did he state its like a religious holiday held in december??
Am i missign something? Or is Zunni dropping hints about a release date? Christmass day anyone??? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well as for seiges, well i dont know.... I guess it will work... Might be a little overpowered.. but it might not, i reserve judgment till ive played B6
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yay for paying a set res amount simply to stand around as a marine. Better not have such a fragile effort pay off. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah, and it's not like the aliens are going to try and stop the seiges, nope, no way... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be silly. After all those marines will all have full armor and plenty of res for meds.
....
Oh boy, it's like a religious holiday held in December (I am "Politically Correct Man")..
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
And why did he state its like a religious holiday held in december??
Am i missign something? Or is Zunni dropping hints about a release date? Christmass day anyone??? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah no, it was a joke you missed. "Oh boy, it's just like Christmas" in regards to the constant "presents" of beta6 news, except you shouldn't say "Christmas" if you are being truely politically correct.
Ahem.
I'm all for waiting until the release at this stage, but still, I'll certainly miss egging the pre-onos who's gestating by the dcs in the hive room. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There's 98 siege kills on our server, in 2 weeks. That's a lot of extra aliens that will be running around after beta6. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wonder what this "boost" the rines will get is then...
New welder sounds, obviously <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you were by the siege encampment as it was, you took 0 damage anyway (unless the siege encampment was in the hive).. Since you were not near a structure. I'm not sure what all the moaning is about.. All that happened is the need to have to stand on a structure to avoid taking damage is removed.
Good players did this anyway (as Forlorn mentioned), this just evens out the playing field for everyone else.. Please don't say standing on a DC is a "skill"....
There was a work-around for this already, it's just not everyone knew.. But if there was a conscious effort to educate the public (at least 30% as big as the "whole" scripting thing) no-one would even notice this change..
The siege does 0 more/less damage than it did, so there's no change there, it just simplified how the damage was delivered.
So I would love to see why people are complaining....
And I'd like to add... People ask me why more news release of unfinished/unconfirmed items don't happen.. I can use this thread as a perfect example of people getting a small piece of information and freaking out..
Actually this came down from the dev team (and I believe Flayra).. I&S played a 0% role in it's addition. It's simply co-incidental..
Well some people are wierd these days... No clue why people think sieges are too weak, they wipe out any alien structures in seconds.
Actually this came down from the dev team (and I believe Flayra).. I&S played a 0% role in it's addition. It's simply co-incidental.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what he wants us to think. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But seriously guys, all he is doing is removing the siege damage for aliens... this is like a microscopic change and your acting as if they're destroying the game! Take it easy guys. Siege damage was never perfect, sometimes it did vertical damage to and when you were killed by siege from 50 yards away it was really annoying.
There is no real nerf to sieges.. you people overreact way too much.
Will 3.0 beta 6 be added to the list? You decide 2005 on bad playtesters! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe i didn't get your point forlorn, but don't you miss 2.01 and beta 4a ?
I think this time people are freaking out because they <i>only</i> got a small piece of information, like Adj said. Also, I really don't understand why you guys are so afraid of people on the forums being mad about something. Forlorn hates the devs and PTs no matter what, so it's not like this actually changes anything. Frankly I think there are more people irritated about the 95% of the B6 changelog that is still hidden than there would be people who complained about the balance changes.
seems like a cop out tbh. Siece damage to players was always cool. with the source SDK out it feels like your taking the easier route and rushing this to get a "finalised" build ready that you can port over to source and join 95% of the the halflife community. and yeah, i have read the devs position on source, and waiting on whether or not it would be worth it, but seriously, let's cut the BS. in a years time, any mod that hasnt ported to source will be left behind. if you rush b6, b7 etc. just to get a "finished" 3.0 build ready for porting you may well screw this up.
or maybe im just rambling, who knows?
How this community manages to claim "no siege damage to players" will make sieges worthless in pubs is beyond me.
Question, will it be a big enough nerf to make seiging against a competent team a non-viable tactic?
My take: No, although a slightly increase to seige damage might help since gorges can now safely heal spray.
Actually, that figure shows how little of a change this is really gonna be.
14 days in 2 weeks = 7 unsieged aliens a day.
Figure about 12 peak hours a day of playtime.
7/12 = .583
Let's just drop that to .5, since some of teh seige deaths are bound to occur in off-peak hours, and You end up getting 1 Seiged alien approximately every two hours during peak game time. Now, how many of those do you think were skulks that died in one volley after spawning, or gorges who couldn't run away? If you're lucky, you'll maybe get an onos or fade egg, but still, the overall change in this being removed isn't exactly game-breaking. Really? how often is one more unseiged skulk really going to turn the game around during a hive seige?
Actually, I'm kinda glad that gorges can heal the hive without getting killed now. That means marines might actually have to walk into the hive and kill them in order for the hive to go down. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Good job Devs and PTs (IMO).
A general word regarding newspost frequency. Without of taking too much from Zun, I think the increasing amount of information shows that we're slowly arriving at the conclusion that our bigger changes work. Thus, we can and will now start giving you more information. So, to repeat what any developer says throughout the development process, sit tight, more is to follow.
Re: Rushing this out because we don't want to miss Source: Nope, we won't. Why should we? So far, barely 10% of the CS community has switched to CS:S. Everything points at an extended transition period. We'd be foolish not to use this, no matter whether and what engine port we're going to make.
Keep up the good work, all your efforts are apprieciated <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So if they even do announce they are porting it to another engine dont expect a release for about a year or more.
Way ahead of you... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->