What Sort Of Game Do You Want Ns To Be?
ShotgunEd
Join Date: 2004-01-02 Member: 24966Members
Join Date: 2004-01-02 Member: 24966Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Arcade or Simulation?</div> I'm interested in what you think because I feel NS lends itself really well to a simulation. The sort of differences i see between the two are,
Arcade: Marines strafe jumping and bouncing all over the place, as is now. Bunny hopping.
Sim: Marines have more limited movement and have to depend on your team and aim and not on 5 years of acrobatic training. No damn bunny hopping, you get leap at hive 2 anyway.
Arcade: Arena style maps, ns_veil for example, where almost no attempt is made to make the map look like the real world.
Sim: Realistic scenarios, tunnel on ns_agora, engine on ns_bast, marine start on ns_nancy for example.
Arcade: Lighting is generaly bright and colourful making seeing your opponent a piece of pie.
Sim: Dark dingy corridors where you can't see the skulk until its in your face.
Anyway I'm tired and can't really think very well.
Arcade: Marines strafe jumping and bouncing all over the place, as is now. Bunny hopping.
Sim: Marines have more limited movement and have to depend on your team and aim and not on 5 years of acrobatic training. No damn bunny hopping, you get leap at hive 2 anyway.
Arcade: Arena style maps, ns_veil for example, where almost no attempt is made to make the map look like the real world.
Sim: Realistic scenarios, tunnel on ns_agora, engine on ns_bast, marine start on ns_nancy for example.
Arcade: Lighting is generaly bright and colourful making seeing your opponent a piece of pie.
Sim: Dark dingy corridors where you can't see the skulk until its in your face.
Anyway I'm tired and can't really think very well.
Comments
What you're describing under sim lends itself better to single player games than multiplayer games. I find veil one of the more atmospheric maps because I get drawn in to the game. I forget where I am and get sucked in to the world of the game because I'm having fun. Maps with overly dark corridors and overly loud ambient sounds only serve to annoy me and shatter the illusion - they remind you that you're playing a game.
or
OMG LASERTAG NS OLOLOL1!11one!!
aliens have to bend over on all fours and...
BITE THE MARINE'S LEG <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Environmentally, maps and lighting, let me say now and forever that for ns_veil, I have nothing but deep, smouldering, inner h<span style='color:red'>8</span>. It's the worst things about the 2.0 maps in one package. Way brighter lighting in almost every room but the hives themselves, combined with THE MOST uninspired map design there ever was. Every time I look at the Veil minimap I gag. It's like a Rorschark inkblot. It's like the doctor holds up the map and says "okay little timmy now what do you see here ja goot?" H8it h8it h8it. It's like the kind of map that a CS custom map maker would make for NS after he was all grown up but still completely braindead and without inspiration. Of all the 2.0 NS maps, Veil makes the least attempt to try and convince you that there wasn't an unspoken rule among mappers of marine start at the top and the three hives equidistant appart with double node in the middle. Caged has the same sort of idea, but that map is based on a 1.04 map and it's so twisted around even in it's current incarnation that it's kind of "sim", in that there's not a lot of predictability to the map. Mineshaft has the same idea too, but the large vertical distances at least make the map seem like a real mining operation. Origin has enough cool stuff so that I forgive the 2.0 maps because of it. But you can see that all of those have a general setup of doubleres, two close hives, and one further in the middle, with various access.
Veil more than any other map is the kind of thing I don't want to play. CS with dogs and grenadelaunchers and turrets. I like Tanith. I like Lost. I even like Agora. I always had a special place in my heart for Bast. I still do. The player input should be arcade. The maps and environment should be sim.
A good example is CS, one shot you die sounds good in theory right? Except it means that you might spend a lot of time watching others have 'fun' while you sit around waiting for the next round. It means that who dies depends on who gets seen first which leads to camping, to people cheating etc.
OK, I won't go on but think of it this way, in an arcade game I can run into some enemies and not die instantly, I can escape or, using cunning skills developed over time, I can kill them all. In a realistic game I'd be dead. Arcade games are far more forgiving of mistakes.
Plus who wants to crawl around on your stomach across half a map (boring) just so you can die after one mistake! Why not race around, tearing across maps, adrenaline flooding your system using your unrealistic acrobatic skills (and depending on the game, RJumping, concjumping etc) to take out the enemy.
There are far more tactics available in an arcade game than there is in a sim, far more depth for vets and yet more forgiving to newbies.
Arcade ftw!
And whats your problem with ns_veil? What do you mean it doesn't look real? NS uses imagination, its sci-fi, its futuristic - who are YOU to say what is real or will be real?
realistic games suck
of course this shouldnt go too far, bleeding and injuries restricting movement arent a must have for games like ns.
however, i overall favor more "realistic" fps over arcade shooters. and thats afaik not what the masses of fps players want, so i can only dream of ns without super mario like jumping marines and bhopping aliens <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1. Marines shouldn't be able to shoot on ladders i mean have you ever tried to fire a automatic machine gun on a ladder with any accuracy??? Skulks should totaly own you on ladders.
2. Knife is to strong
3. There is no way the normal running speed for a marine and skulk should be similar skulk really needs to be faster.
4. Pogo stick marines they just jump all over the joint to avoid bites if a skulk is in that close you deserve to die, you have a gun if you haven't manage to kill the skulk at range then you deserve to die.
1. Marines shouldn't be able to shoot on ladders i mean have you ever tried to fire a automatic machine gun on a ladder with any accuracy??? Skulks should totaly own you on ladders.
2. Knife is to strong
3. There is no way the normal running speed for a marine and skulk should be similar skulk really needs to be faster.
4. Pogo stick marines they just jump all over the joint to avoid bites if a skulk is in that close you deserve to die, you have a gun if you haven't manage to kill the skulk at range then you deserve to die. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. In that case, Marines should not even be able to have two handed weapon out when on a ladder. What? Are they climbing with their feet?
2. No it isn't.
3. I thought skulks were already faster than Marines? Anyway, they can evolve to become faster. Whereas when Marines get upgrades they generally get slower (HA, bigger weapons).
4. A real life Marine could jump up and down if he wanted to. He probably wouldn't. But the option is there. What crap is that about deserving to die if the skulk gets too close? The skulks HAVE to get close to kill...if we changed NS to your ways, the Marines would just slaughter everything.
Even good players get bitten by skulks at some point in their lives. Doesn't mean you deserve it.
I don't like overemphasis on realism in the gameplay environment. Having to wrap bandages around your wound is more of an annoyance than a gamebreaking strategy, for example.
If realism is implemented to the point where half the things Marines do are pretty much nerfed, then there's going to be problems. I don't care whether or not a Marine is actually supposed to be shooting a gun on a ladder if there's a skulk trying to climb up with me.
I don't care how tired Marines should get while jumping and moving around when they are already sluggish and prone to Skulk or Fade ownage.
...
Environment and graphics wise, realism is good. Plenty of games can have unrealistic gameplay and yet still have a realistic graphic style. I don't need to rant on the graphics, except that the NS team is doing a good job on their maps.
oh, and arcadish gameplay is always more fun than a sim. but i agree with swift that the maps should be very "realistic" and feel like a real spaceship/space station that gives the impression of continuity even beyond the actual map boundaries. just like tram tunnel on bast, the several large doors in caged's shipping tunnels and sewers etc.
Leave realism to Ghost Recon.
But I digress. I'll just say that NS is good as an arcade game, and could have been good as a more realistic 'sim' type game too. It all comes down to the concept and the team - both of which, when strong and flexible enough, will result in a great game no matter what category it falls into.
So in a word, my answer would be: Yes. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because it always creates more tenosity. Sure, Gameplay > Realism, but what about those times when Realism = Gameplay?
I agree with what he said.
*cough*jp*cough*
People, please. How realistic do you think NS can ever get? I mean, look at what we're shooting at here. Do you think this -> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <- would ever be able to take more than a few bullets in real life? I tell you what, 3 or 4 bullets and that lerk is grounded permanently. And the hmg? That thing would just cut aliens in half, even a friggin onos! Two clips to kill an onos my ****, it'd take like a few bullets in the eye or a few to the belly to kill or at least maim. That said, if everything were real, practically every alien attack should be instant-death. Even friggin leap would completely knock back a LA rine, at the least he'd be stunned and shaken.
Balance the game so its fun and makes enough sense to pass, we're not training real space marines with this. Or are we........ <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1. Marines shouldn't be able to shoot on ladders i mean have you ever tried to fire a automatic machine gun on a ladder with any accuracy??? Skulks should totaly own you on ladders.
2. Knife is to strong
3. There is no way the normal running speed for a marine and skulk should be similar skulk really needs to be faster.
4. Pogo stick marines they just jump all over the joint to avoid bites if a skulk is in that close you deserve to die, you have a gun if you haven't manage to kill the skulk at range then you deserve to die. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
4. A real life Marine could jump up and down if he wanted to. He probably wouldn't...<span style='font-size:6pt;line-height:100%'><b>(etc)</b></span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love for you to show me someone jumping around in combat more than five times in a row, and still able to keep his aim on the enemy, as well as have enough stamina to continue.
<span style='font-size:6pt;line-height:100%'><b><i>edit:</b></i></span> Not to sound like I'm flaming or anything.
And I'd defenantly go for the realism. Movement would have to feel like killzone (really feels realistic, without being so constricted ala rainbow six, I know I can move more freely than that), but there would defenantly be the fear aspect, as well as the getting bitten in the leg and limping? Thats awsome.. I'd like to see one guy in the corner with both his legs chewed up and his lmg, thousands of casings by his side and one clip left as he faces off again with the skulks in a dark, misty corridor right outside the hive as infestation creeps around the corner, the distant roaring of the onos sending chills down his back..
Aint like that now. ;p Not like it could be.. well it could, just wouldnt look as good. Mod for HL2, please god.
And whats your problem with ns_veil? What do you mean it doesn't look real? NS uses imagination, its sci-fi, its futuristic - who are YOU to say what is real or will be real? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly!! SiFi =) that's the point why I love NS!
oh and I think ns is a good sorta arcarde game =)