Not only camoflage. lets make ALL kharra burrow. great for ambushes. zone/exp comm is a great idea imo. and lets make skulks parasite to slowly kill the rine if he wont be healed by a med station <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
*2 rine on patrol 10000000 km from closest med station*
1:a shi* got parasited 2: god me too *they die in a horrible way (watch aliens 1/2 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)*
I feel bad about bursting people's bubbles, but NS is a close-quaters mod. Always was, always will be. 32 players are plentiful for that. Just because something is technically possible, it doesn't <i>have</i> to go in, as, say, Pandora Tomorrow demonstrated.
I can only imagine 100 Oni charging all out at the marine stronghold.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> Oh my... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh... reminds me of the Freakin Oleiphaunts in the Third Lord of the rings...
So basically this game will be more like a 5on5 seen in warcraft. Since maps will be very large, each of commanders will be spawned. In various locations of the map, far from each other. This kinda like how teams in warcraft each have their own bases and are not near eachother.
So a given map, might have some storyline like how some strange space electrical buildup caused a fleet of 5 ships to crashland on an alien planet. However, the spaceships, from lack of control, landed no where near eachother. One on a side of a mountain; One on a beach; Two in some swampy jungle; etc. Now the commanders (1 per ship) have several missions. Each has to setup their own base, explore unknown lands, redenzvous with other comms, while at the same time battling aliens.
The generals/regulars can only communicate with their commander. The commanders can communicate with other commanders and the Chief. This way the radio-talk (mic-talk) won't be any more hectic than it is now.
Maybe all game servers will be connected to a main server. This server will keep track of player stats. So when you join a server... other players can see your stats on that server as well as your stats overall. This will help decide which person should be a Cheif, which should be commanders. It will also help commanders decide who should be the generals of their squad. Otherwise, comms will have to wait a while to see who is doing well and then elect generals.
My thoughts of how to make this work and make it fun... Thoughts?
PS: as stated before. If you find yourself typing a response like "no server/engine/connection/etc will ever support that." Do us all a favor and kill yourself...
I like NS because it's close quarters DMing with really intense levels of control. Those TSA marines are animals. They are human animals. Any human being, even including with nanotech backup, who can shoulderfire two skulks, quickdraw a pistol for another kill, blast a fourth up, and disembowl it with the slipdraw wristknife for the coup de grace WHILE FLAWLESSLY LEAPING FROM HANDRAIL TO HANDRAIL LIKE A GAZELLE IN COMBAT BOOTS is an animal. That's insane. When you're having a good day playing NS, it should feel like you're m-f-ing Riddick or Squad 5 or something. Same with the aliens. You should feel like some kind of unfathomably vicious killer animal playing aliens, and typically you do. I know I do.
32 people is too many. 12 is fine. When you're only able to move around the map in pairs or three man teams, action is hotter. You matter more, along with what you do. People have to actually pull their weight, which seperates the mediocre from the truly good. It also makes the maps bigger, relatively speaking, since there are less people crowding it up. Where you go matters as much as what you do there.
I like that kind of game. I don't think I'd like 200 player "Team FPS" games too much. There isn't enough room for individual achievement. Which is, frankly, what I play videogames for.
<!--QuoteBegin-`G`+Oct 2 2004, 04:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (`G` @ Oct 2 2004, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the source engine can support 128 players and with a netcode tweak is suposed to be able to reach 256.
this got me thinking..(thinking wayyyy in the future here..) imagine ns gone war style, with about 100 rines v 100 aliens.. with that amount of players it would have to be set outdoors on open plains, but i think it would be awsome, just amagine your a rine in your base and about 50 meters away you see about 60 skulks charge down over a hill... reminds of the film starship troopers.
yeah, it aint gonna happen anytime soon, but mehhhhhhhhhh =) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> savage wasn't that much fun.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Oct 6 2004, 11:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct 6 2004, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I feel bad about bursting people's bubbles, but NS is a close-quaters mod. Always was, always will be. 32 players are plentiful for that. Just because something is technically possible, it doesn't <i>have</i> to go in, as, say, Pandora Tomorrow demonstrated. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> party-pooper.... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
oh wait, he said NS was a close-quarters mod.
NS2 IS STILL UP FOR GRABS, YAY! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We might be able to implement that old suggestion about the CC having wheels, moving around, and having a machine gun portholes for the comm to shoot skulks biting his chair....
All of you people complaining about how much this would suck...really suck.
I personally thing NS on Source in an all out war fashion would be the ultimate win. Of course SOME balance issues would have to be taken care of...but other than that, it'd be so fun...
You girls need to stop whining about stuff that isn't even real yet.
Just because the current NS is only close quarters DOES NOT mean we can't expand! Why not innovate a little? A game company creating sequels of the same genre to the same damn game over and over again is kinda lame.
EXAMPLE: Lord of the Rings. This game was probably meant to be played as a RPGish type game, that is why Dungeon and Dragons was created. Now, they also created an RTS lord of the rings game.
EXAMPLE 2: Warcraft! Now, there is an MMORPG Warcraft, totally different from the original RTS style of play that the game story was built on...
Maybe this is a little to far-fetched, but i'd like to add on to the 5-spaceships scenario with let's say, a ranking system. The more you do for your team, the more experience your rewarded. Use these experience points to buy access to new things. It's a bit like NS Combat, it first should be harder, and it shouldn't be based on 10 skill points. You could lose EXP for various things too, so people don't become Supergods as the game progresses...
EDIT: About your thing on personal Achievement, Swift Idiot, in a Team FPS such as Battlefield 1945, there really is no such thing as personal achievement because most other players could care less, there are too many players for that. In NS though, that last guy who has killed 5 skulks, survived running through half of the map, and built a PG alone, everyone can recognize him for that!
However, the reason I think a Team FPS would be good is because you would be working with your teammates. In this scenario, being a loner will get you killed, you must work as a team to acheive a goal, the thing that comes out of this is cooperative achievement, being able to coordinate with people you HAVE NO CLUE about to obtain victory! What matters here is not personal skill, it's your ability to cooperate and command.
But with 200 people, action could get a little TOO crazy, it would be pretty chaotic if you have 12+ potential targets and you have very little time to act...
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 6 2004, 04:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 6 2004, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So basicly your guys are shuggesting. BattleField 2200. (I couldn't find a date for when NS is set in) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, kinda.
Except with two completely different teams, bacteria, a commander, nanites, hives, the occasional hovering scorpion reference, a resource system (actually the most important difference IMO), a team upgrade system, and the necessity for coordinated teamwork, rather than just everyone kinda just rushing the important locations.....and vehicles.... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anybody remember back in the earlier months of T2 when a few servers put the 128 player cap on their server?
I had the experience of trying one of those...
I will tell you all this that think NS would be awesome with 200 some players.
Tribes was designed to be larger scale than most, with very feasible games of 10vs10 all the way up to the 32vs32 which the box advertised.
But when the game was dumped to the cap of 128...all hell litterally broke loose, it was absolute chaos. Your bases would be chock full of people and getting your equipment was a nightmare. Mortars were devestating and virtually no player had a positive score. It was hellish and although cool at first, quickly lost its flavor, it was just TO DAMN MANY PEOPLE.
Why? Because as cool as it is, games that arent designed to be with large number of players, dont work with large numbers of players. (Duh?)
Planetside (well sorta) worked because it was designed for armie vs armies. Tribes was designed for larger games, but not for a scale of that size. Unreal Tournament is designed for at best 10vs10. Ns? NS was made with 6v6 in mind. So as cool as it would be to think of the game that way, it would just suck, unless it was specifically designed for that size.
IF NS does get ported to HL2, I doubt they'll make it for games of that size, in fact I'd be surprised if any mod seriously strives for the standard cap, and aside from a few gimmick servers, you won't see any serious servers that take it all the way up to that number.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that imagining is nice, but I'm raining on this parade from my experience with that many people in a game that wasn't designed for that many. Sorry <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Crotalus+Oct 6 2004, 06:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crotalus @ Oct 6 2004, 06:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But with 200 people, action could get a little TOO crazy, it would be pretty chaotic if you have 12+ potential targets and you have very little time to act... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> /me CRINGES at the thought of 100 skulks xeno rushing from like 20-30 hives... EEEEK <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well it could be amazing... with proper balance and thought...
Im thinking...... sensory (cloaking) would gain new fame......
Imagine a phalanx of Oni marching toward a fortification, soaking up ammunition to shield the legion of skulks behind them until they're within leap range, and as the turret gunners on the parapets are changing ammo belts, the fades blink down from above and slit their throats. Lerks cloud the skies and their piercing screams leave the infantry cowering beneath the crippled vehicles. Coordinated attacks making full use of the alien classes' specialized roles to overcome an insurmountable defense until the Soldiers cry out in panic and run for their dropships, only to find the engines hopelessly jammed with webs and cloaked skulks waiting to greet them in the cockpits. And that's only making use of currently existing NS creatures... Who's to say the Kharaa don't evolve further when they break free from the confines of a facility...?
This is where imagination stretches out to greet the future, and where people without imagination are too busy thinking of reasons why it's impossible to make it happen instead of being part of the future.
Remember, everyone at Valve giggled at Flayra and said that the Commander Mode would never work on the Half-Life engine...
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Oct 6 2004, 08:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Oct 6 2004, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Imagine a phalanx of Oni marching toward a fortification, soaking up ammunition to shield the legion of skulks behind them until they're within leap range, and as the turret gunners on the parapets are changing ammo belts, the fades blink down from above and slit their throats. Lerks cloud the skies and their piercing screams leave the infantry cowering beneath the crippled vehicles. Coordinated attacks making full use of the alien classes' specialized roles to overcome an insurmountable defense until the Soldiers cry out in panic and run for their dropships, only to find the engines hopelessly jammed with webs and cloaked skulks waiting to greet them in the cockpits. And that's only making use of currently existing NS creatures... Who's to say the Kharaa don't evolve further when they break free from the confines of a facility...?
This is where imagination stretches out to greet the future, and where people without imagination are too busy thinking of reasons why it's impossible to make it happen instead of being part of the future.
Remember, everyone at Valve giggled at Flayra and said that the Commander Mode would never work on the Half-Life engine... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats just great Tyr, but why? Did the Kharaa even HAVE a homeworld? Why would they amass like that? Why wouldn't the marines by this time have jetpacked heavy armor, and bring out their Modern-Day(For their time) MG-42s? Why don't they just napalm the entire place? Or even better, pull a covenant and just glass the damned planet with fusion pulse fire? And all the while, why is it that every super-open game to come out so far isn't very atmospheric?
I'm not limiting it because of a lack of imagination, it is more of a worry of us going down the gameplay-must-be-everything-so-lets-use-this-great-idea thing that many games have tried, then screw up the idea. Personally, I like the idea of several commanders relating their things to their own squads, and those comms relating to eachother. Sounded cool to me, though for aliens it sounds like we'd have to give a BIG boost to MCs and SCs with that. Even DCs maybe.
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Oct 6 2004, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Oct 6 2004, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <Lots of stuff> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But then here's the problem. 200 hundred LMG marines > 200 Oni. 200x50 bullets = 1000 LMG bullets.
Just a couple of bullets from the marines would slaughter one Onos. Of course the Oni would slaughter the marines, but the marines would have cause heavy casualties to the Onos herd.
And I haven't even gotten started on HMGs. Or the less Onos == Less meatshields and group health theory.
While it sounds sexy on paper. In reality it really doesn't work unless you switch around some <b>major</b> values. Like damage. It's like communism. Communism was meant to close the gap between the rich and the poor and end corruption, but it ended up making the problem worse....
Okay maybe I exaggerated when I compared the idea with communism, but it still makes a couple of things worse.
For all we know, the aliens might need more than 1000 resnodes to get a decent resflow o_O; (Provided the current res system is still in place, but I doubt that)
And aren't the Kharaa sort of like Fungus which just survives and fights when threatened? There's a reason this is called Natural Selection , not Battle of the Worlds or some other obscure name that hints towards interplanetary battle <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But I still like the idea of inter-planetary battles....mmmm...mechs....giant aliens....
1 comm per 6 people. Every comm chair has its own res flow and seperate squad??
EDIT:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>STOP REFERING TO THE SOURCE ENGINE - ITS THE HALF LIFE 2 ENGINE. SOURCE IS A MOD FOR IT!</span> <i>A public service announcement from Ice<span style='color:red'>9</span> Technology.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-Crotalus+Oct 6 2004, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crotalus @ Oct 6 2004, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Team upgrade system? What do you mean? If a team does well all members of that team get bonuses or something? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Marine upgrades affect the entire team....hence team upgrades. Whatever, bad word usage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ice9+Oct 7 2004, 05:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice9 @ Oct 7 2004, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1 comm per 6 people. Every comm chair has its own res flow and seperate squad??
EDIT:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>STOP REFERING TO THE SOURCE ENGINE - ITS THE HALF LIFE 2 ENGINE. SOURCE IS A MOD FOR IT!</span> <i>A public service announcement from Ice<span style='color:red'>9</span> Technology.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh no.
Counter Strike: Source is called that because it's Counter Strike on the Source engine.
A direct quote from <a href='http://www.valvesoftware.com/sourcelicense/' target='_blank'>Valve's website</a>: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Valve’s Source engine technology, the same used to power Half-Life® 2, is now available for license by any third party. Source provides major enhancements in several key areas including character animation, advanced AI, real-world physics, and shader-based rendering.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Well, they wouldn't nuke the planet into a cracked sphere of red hot glass, because MAYBE THERE IS IMPORTANT ALIEN TECHNOLOGY, OR CIVILIANS, OR SPECIAL THINGS, AND....
Simply put, there are alot of reason that they wouldn't simply destroy a planet that you could think up and insert.
2. "Does the Kharaa even have a home planet?" NO, they never did, but if a spaceship crashed onto a planet, OH NOES! all the Kharaa will jump out and colonize the planet and fortify if they think they are in danger of something...
Have you ever checked out Planetside? Amazingly it WORKS! It is a game of massive proportions numbering anywhere from 100 to 1000 players assaulting a base with defenders numbering almost as high...Tanks would roll around clearing battlements for infantry, and aircraft would fly above the fortresses dropping numerous infantry directly on top of the defenders...
Actually, I think it would be easier to make because we wouldn't have DCs, or OCs, it would be like one massive hive type structure. The systems would be simplfied to work for a game all about WAR...
EXAMPLE: 5kyh16h91 wrote about team upgrades, it would definetly simplify the system because there wouldn't be hundreds of upgrades to keep track of, an upgrade affects an entire team.
One more thing: Rave, your right about the damage balance and health of the onos, but that doesn't mean we can't change it to make LMGs less powerful, instead, the LMG's power would rely on cooperation of marines to do damage...
on a particular spaceship, say the one from ns_nancy..the kharra are victorious and kill off all the marines and infest the ship. They crash landed onto some small mining planet with hordes of valuable resources. The kharra use these resources to grow and spawn hundreds of aliens. TSA sees what is happening and decides they need to annihilate the kharra. Let's nuke them right? OH WAIT! The resources on the planet are highly sensitive to anytype of weapon of mass destruction. If TSA were to blow it up, it would have a chain reaction and destroy the entire planet AND the surrounding highly populated colony planets! Only choice is a ground assault. And obviously they can't use 10-15 marines to do it all. lol
on a particular spaceship, say the one from ns_nancy..the kharra are victorious and kill off all the marines and infest the ship. They crash landed onto some small mining planet with hordes of valuable resources. The kharra use these resources to grow and spawn hundreds of aliens. TSA sees what is happening and decides they need to annihilate the kharra. Let's nuke them right? OH WAIT! The resources on the planet are highly sensitive to anytype of weapon of mass destruction. If TSA were to blow it up, it would have a chain reaction and destroy the entire planet AND the surrounding highly populated colony planets! Only choice is a ground assault. And obviously they can't use 10-15 marines to do it all. lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...surprisingly, that story could work.
But then it leaves this question: How big would the map be? Would we have it be a MMO based around JUST this planet, or wha? Not to mention, with something of this proportion, it'd take literally 1,000,000 people to get it running semi-okay, 2,500,000 to get it running the way it was meant.
...lets get started <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
on a particular spaceship, say the one from ns_nancy..the kharra are victorious and kill off all the marines and infest the ship. They crash landed onto some small mining planet with hordes of valuable resources. The kharra use these resources to grow and spawn hundreds of aliens. TSA sees what is happening and decides they need to annihilate the kharra. Let's nuke them right? OH WAIT! The resources on the planet are highly sensitive to anytype of weapon of mass destruction. If TSA were to blow it up, it would have a chain reaction and destroy the entire planet AND the surrounding highly populated colony planets! Only choice is a ground assault. And obviously they can't use 10-15 marines to do it all. lol <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...surprisingly, that story could work.
But then it leaves this question: How big would the map be? Would we have it be a MMO based around JUST this planet, or wha? Not to mention, with something of this proportion, it'd take literally 1,000,000 people to get it running semi-okay, 2,500,000 to get it running the way it was meant.
...lets get started <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A centralized system, keeping track of all the maps (different areas of the same planet) being fought over, and updating the central readout of how marines and aliens are faring, what sides control what areas, and what areas are up for grabs (available to play on).
And if one side finally wins the entire planet.....we should have a new planet ready by then. Or HL3. Or Hell will freeze over. Even odds for any of them.
Big battles in PS are pretty trite, because as an individual you die simply to numbers - being one out of 5 libbys that simply goes down because of the mass AA, and the other 4 going for repairs isn't fun. Its a skill-free lottery :/
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
edited October 2004
For all of those people saying that marines would own so much, yes, with the current aliens they would.
But who's to say there won't be highly-evolved versions of each alien? New types of aliens? And who says there won't be a variety of guns, making top-tier guns harder to reach?
So, imagine a lerk twice the size of a current onos. It's moving extremely fast...like a pteradactyle (shut up about the spelling lol). It lets out a high-pitched scream, and releases a massive hail of spikes, killing many marines and wounding others. It then turns around, and flys toward an HA marine, biting it, and killing it instantly.
Like 2500/600 health (since the current lerk has a much larger ratio of health to armor), nigh impossible to take down...however it costed around 250 resources...
/edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And if one side finally wins the entire planet.....we should have a new planet ready by then. Or HL3. Or Hell will freeze over. Even odds for any of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Oct 6 2004, 11:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Oct 6 2004, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Imagine a phalanx of Oni marching toward a fortification, soaking up ammunition to shield the legion of skulks behind them until they're within leap range, and as the turret gunners on the parapets are changing ammo belts, the fades blink down from above and slit their throats. Lerks cloud the skies and their piercing screams leave the infantry cowering beneath the crippled vehicles. Coordinated attacks making full use of the alien classes' specialized roles to overcome an insurmountable defense until the Soldiers cry out in panic and run for their dropships, only to find the engines hopelessly jammed with webs and cloaked skulks waiting to greet them in the cockpits. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then all of a sudden the server overloads and crashes.
Comments
*2 rine on patrol 10000000 km from closest med station*
1:a shi* got parasited
2: god me too
*they die in a horrible way (watch aliens 1/2 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)*
xenomoprhs for tehwin
I can only imagine 100 Oni charging all out at the marine stronghold.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> Oh my... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh... reminds me of the Freakin Oleiphaunts in the Third Lord of the rings...
EEEK
But those Oleiphants were pretty weak
~Jason
Anyway, I never got to finish my last post. I received some "drop-everything" news and had to stop short.
These are my suggestions/ideas for this future (post source engine) 100vs100 type game:
1. Marines
More rankings:
(a) Chief Commander: Only 1. In charge of all.
(b) Commanders: 5 or 6. Do what the current NS commanders do. Each get 15-20 soldiers under them.
© Generals: When a commander decides splits up his 15-20 soldiers into squads, he now has the ability to assign one person per squad as a general.
(d) Regulars: Everyone else.
So basically this game will be more like a 5on5 seen in warcraft. Since maps will be very large, each of commanders will be spawned. In various locations of the map, far from each other. This kinda like how teams in warcraft each have their own bases and are not near eachother.
So a given map, might have some storyline like how some strange space electrical buildup caused a fleet of 5 ships to crashland on an alien planet. However, the spaceships, from lack of control, landed no where near eachother. One on a side of a mountain; One on a beach; Two in some swampy jungle; etc. Now the commanders (1 per ship) have several missions. Each has to setup their own base, explore unknown lands, redenzvous with other comms, while at the same time battling aliens.
The generals/regulars can only communicate with their commander. The commanders can communicate with other commanders and the Chief. This way the radio-talk (mic-talk) won't be any more hectic than it is now.
Maybe all game servers will be connected to a main server. This server will keep track of player stats. So when you join a server... other players can see your stats on that server as well as your stats overall. This will help decide which person should be a Cheif, which should be commanders. It will also help commanders decide who should be the generals of their squad. Otherwise, comms will have to wait a while to see who is doing well and then elect generals.
My thoughts of how to make this work and make it fun... Thoughts?
PS: as stated before. If you find yourself typing a response like "no server/engine/connection/etc will ever support that." Do us all a favor and kill yourself...
32 people is too many. 12 is fine. When you're only able to move around the map in pairs or three man teams, action is hotter. You matter more, along with what you do. People have to actually pull their weight, which seperates the mediocre from the truly good. It also makes the maps bigger, relatively speaking, since there are less people crowding it up. Where you go matters as much as what you do there.
I like that kind of game. I don't think I'd like 200 player "Team FPS" games too much. There isn't enough room for individual achievement. Which is, frankly, what I play videogames for.
this got me thinking..(thinking wayyyy in the future here..)
imagine ns gone war style, with about 100 rines v 100 aliens.. with that amount of players it would have to be set outdoors on open plains, but i think it would be awsome, just amagine your a rine in your base and about 50 meters away you see about 60 skulks charge down over a hill...
reminds of the film starship troopers.
yeah, it aint gonna happen anytime soon, but mehhhhhhhhhh =) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
savage wasn't that much fun.
party-pooper.... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
oh wait, he said NS was a close-quarters mod.
NS2 IS STILL UP FOR GRABS, YAY! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[/annoyingvoice]
We might be able to implement that old suggestion about the CC having wheels, moving around, and having a machine gun portholes for the comm to shoot skulks biting his chair....
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I personally thing NS on Source in an all out war fashion would be the ultimate win. Of course SOME balance issues would have to be taken care of...but other than that, it'd be so fun...
You girls need to stop whining about stuff that isn't even real yet.
Sounds liek another type of mod realy, but only Unknown Worlds would actualy be able to create it.
EXAMPLE:
Lord of the Rings. This game was probably meant to be played as a RPGish type game, that is why Dungeon and Dragons was created. Now, they also created an RTS lord of the rings game.
EXAMPLE 2:
Warcraft! Now, there is an MMORPG Warcraft, totally different from the original RTS style of play that the game story was built on...
Maybe this is a little to far-fetched, but i'd like to add on to the 5-spaceships scenario with let's say, a ranking system. The more you do for your team, the more experience your rewarded. Use these experience points to buy access to new things. It's a bit like NS Combat, it first should be harder, and it shouldn't be based on 10 skill points. You could lose EXP for various things too, so people don't become Supergods as the game progresses...
EDIT:
About your thing on personal Achievement, Swift Idiot, in a Team FPS such as Battlefield 1945, there really is no such thing as personal achievement because most other players could care less, there are too many players for that. In NS though, that last guy who has killed 5 skulks, survived running through half of the map, and built a PG alone, everyone can recognize him for that!
However, the reason I think a Team FPS would be good is because you would be working with your teammates. In this scenario, being a loner will get you killed, you must work as a team to acheive a goal, the thing that comes out of this is cooperative achievement, being able to coordinate with people you HAVE NO CLUE about to obtain victory! What matters here is not personal skill, it's your ability to cooperate and command.
But with 200 people, action could get a little TOO crazy, it would be pretty chaotic if you have 12+ potential targets and you have very little time to act...
Yeah, kinda.
Except with two completely different teams, bacteria, a commander, nanites, hives, the occasional hovering scorpion reference, a resource system (actually the most important difference IMO), a team upgrade system, and the necessity for coordinated teamwork, rather than just everyone kinda just rushing the important locations.....and vehicles.... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anybody remember back in the earlier months of T2 when a few servers put the 128 player cap on their server?
I had the experience of trying one of those...
I will tell you all this that think NS would be awesome with 200 some players.
Tribes was designed to be larger scale than most, with very feasible games of 10vs10 all the way up to the 32vs32 which the box advertised.
But when the game was dumped to the cap of 128...all hell litterally broke loose, it was absolute chaos. Your bases would be chock full of people and getting your equipment was a nightmare. Mortars were devestating and virtually no player had a positive score. It was hellish and although cool at first, quickly lost its flavor, it was just TO DAMN MANY PEOPLE.
Why? Because as cool as it is, games that arent designed to be with large number of players, dont work with large numbers of players. (Duh?)
Planetside (well sorta) worked because it was designed for armie vs armies. Tribes was designed for larger games, but not for a scale of that size. Unreal Tournament is designed for at best 10vs10. Ns? NS was made with 6v6 in mind. So as cool as it would be to think of the game that way, it would just suck, unless it was specifically designed for that size.
IF NS does get ported to HL2, I doubt they'll make it for games of that size, in fact I'd be surprised if any mod seriously strives for the standard cap, and aside from a few gimmick servers, you won't see any serious servers that take it all the way up to that number.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that imagining is nice, but I'm raining on this parade from my experience with that many people in a game that wasn't designed for that many. Sorry <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/me CRINGES at the thought of 100 skulks xeno rushing from like 20-30 hives... EEEEK <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well it could be amazing... with proper balance and thought...
Im thinking...... sensory (cloaking) would gain new fame......
~Jason
This is where imagination stretches out to greet the future, and where people without imagination are too busy thinking of reasons why it's impossible to make it happen instead of being part of the future.
Remember, everyone at Valve giggled at Flayra and said that the Commander Mode would never work on the Half-Life engine...
This is where imagination stretches out to greet the future, and where people without imagination are too busy thinking of reasons why it's impossible to make it happen instead of being part of the future.
Remember, everyone at Valve giggled at Flayra and said that the Commander Mode would never work on the Half-Life engine... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats just great Tyr, but why? Did the Kharaa even HAVE a homeworld? Why would they amass like that? Why wouldn't the marines by this time have jetpacked heavy armor, and bring out their Modern-Day(For their time) MG-42s? Why don't they just napalm the entire place? Or even better, pull a covenant and just glass the damned planet with fusion pulse fire? And all the while, why is it that every super-open game to come out so far isn't very atmospheric?
I'm not limiting it because of a lack of imagination, it is more of a worry of us going down the gameplay-must-be-everything-so-lets-use-this-great-idea thing that many games have tried, then screw up the idea. Personally, I like the idea of several commanders relating their things to their own squads, and those comms relating to eachother. Sounded cool to me, though for aliens it sounds like we'd have to give a BIG boost to MCs and SCs with that. Even DCs maybe.
But then here's the problem. 200 hundred LMG marines > 200 Oni.
200x50 bullets = 1000 LMG bullets.
Just a couple of bullets from the marines would slaughter one Onos. Of course the Oni would slaughter the marines, but the marines would have cause heavy casualties to the Onos herd.
And I haven't even gotten started on HMGs. Or the less Onos == Less meatshields and group health theory.
While it sounds sexy on paper. In reality it really doesn't work unless you switch around some <b>major</b> values. Like damage.
It's like communism. Communism was meant to close the gap between the rich and the poor and end corruption, but it ended up making the problem worse....
Okay maybe I exaggerated when I compared the idea with communism, but it still makes a couple of things worse.
For all we know, the aliens might need more than 1000 resnodes to get a decent resflow o_O; (Provided the current res system is still in place, but I doubt that)
And aren't the Kharaa sort of like Fungus which just survives and fights when threatened?
There's a reason this is called Natural Selection , not Battle of the Worlds or some other obscure name that hints towards interplanetary battle <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But I still like the idea of inter-planetary battles....mmmm...mechs....giant aliens....
Space Bombardment!
EDIT:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>STOP REFERING TO THE SOURCE ENGINE - ITS THE HALF LIFE 2 ENGINE. SOURCE IS A MOD FOR IT!</span>
<i>A public service announcement from Ice<span style='color:red'>9</span> Technology.</i>
Marine upgrades affect the entire team....hence team upgrades. Whatever, bad word usage.
EDIT:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>STOP REFERING TO THE SOURCE ENGINE - ITS THE HALF LIFE 2 ENGINE. SOURCE IS A MOD FOR IT!</span>
<i>A public service announcement from Ice<span style='color:red'>9</span> Technology.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh no.
Counter Strike: Source is called that because it's Counter Strike on the Source engine.
A direct quote from <a href='http://www.valvesoftware.com/sourcelicense/' target='_blank'>Valve's website</a>:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Valve’s Source engine technology, the same used to power Half-Life® 2, is now available for license by any third party. Source provides major enhancements in several key areas including character animation, advanced AI, real-world physics, and shader-based rendering.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simply put, there are alot of reason that they wouldn't simply destroy a planet that you could think up and insert.
2. "Does the Kharaa even have a home planet?"
NO, they never did, but if a spaceship crashed onto a planet, OH NOES! all the Kharaa will jump out and colonize the planet and fortify if they think they are in danger of something...
Have you ever checked out Planetside? Amazingly it WORKS! It is a game of massive proportions numbering anywhere from 100 to 1000 players assaulting a base with defenders numbering almost as high...Tanks would roll around clearing battlements for infantry, and aircraft would fly above the fortresses dropping numerous infantry directly on top of the defenders...
Actually, I think it would be easier to make because we wouldn't have DCs, or OCs, it would be like one massive hive type structure. The systems would be simplfied to work for a game all about WAR...
EXAMPLE:
5kyh16h91 wrote about team upgrades, it would definetly simplify the system because there wouldn't be hundreds of upgrades to keep track of, an upgrade affects an entire team.
One more thing:
Rave, your right about the damage balance and health of the onos, but that doesn't mean we can't change it to make LMGs less powerful, instead, the LMG's power would rely on cooperation of marines to do damage...
on a particular spaceship, say the one from ns_nancy..the kharra are victorious and kill off all the marines and infest the ship. They crash landed onto some small mining planet with hordes of valuable resources. The kharra use these resources to grow and spawn hundreds of aliens. TSA sees what is happening and decides they need to annihilate the kharra. Let's nuke them right? OH WAIT! The resources on the planet are highly sensitive to anytype of weapon of mass destruction. If TSA were to blow it up, it would have a chain reaction and destroy the entire planet AND the surrounding highly populated colony planets! Only choice is a ground assault. And obviously they can't use 10-15 marines to do it all. lol
on a particular spaceship, say the one from ns_nancy..the kharra are victorious and kill off all the marines and infest the ship. They crash landed onto some small mining planet with hordes of valuable resources. The kharra use these resources to grow and spawn hundreds of aliens. TSA sees what is happening and decides they need to annihilate the kharra. Let's nuke them right? OH WAIT! The resources on the planet are highly sensitive to anytype of weapon of mass destruction. If TSA were to blow it up, it would have a chain reaction and destroy the entire planet AND the surrounding highly populated colony planets! Only choice is a ground assault. And obviously they can't use 10-15 marines to do it all. lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...surprisingly, that story could work.
But then it leaves this question: How big would the map be? Would we have it be a MMO based around JUST this planet, or wha? Not to mention, with something of this proportion, it'd take literally 1,000,000 people to get it running semi-okay, 2,500,000 to get it running the way it was meant.
...lets get started <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
on a particular spaceship, say the one from ns_nancy..the kharra are victorious and kill off all the marines and infest the ship. They crash landed onto some small mining planet with hordes of valuable resources. The kharra use these resources to grow and spawn hundreds of aliens. TSA sees what is happening and decides they need to annihilate the kharra. Let's nuke them right? OH WAIT! The resources on the planet are highly sensitive to anytype of weapon of mass destruction. If TSA were to blow it up, it would have a chain reaction and destroy the entire planet AND the surrounding highly populated colony planets! Only choice is a ground assault. And obviously they can't use 10-15 marines to do it all. lol <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...surprisingly, that story could work.
But then it leaves this question: How big would the map be? Would we have it be a MMO based around JUST this planet, or wha? Not to mention, with something of this proportion, it'd take literally 1,000,000 people to get it running semi-okay, 2,500,000 to get it running the way it was meant.
...lets get started <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A centralized system, keeping track of all the maps (different areas of the same planet) being fought over, and updating the central readout of how marines and aliens are faring, what sides control what areas, and what areas are up for grabs (available to play on).
And if one side finally wins the entire planet.....we should have a new planet ready by then. Or HL3. Or Hell will freeze over. Even odds for any of them.
But who's to say there won't be highly-evolved versions of each alien? New types of aliens? And who says there won't be a variety of guns, making top-tier guns harder to reach?
So, imagine a lerk twice the size of a current onos. It's moving extremely fast...like a pteradactyle (shut up about the spelling lol). It lets out a high-pitched scream, and releases a massive hail of spikes, killing many marines and wounding others. It then turns around, and flys toward an HA marine, biting it, and killing it instantly.
Like 2500/600 health (since the current lerk has a much larger ratio of health to armor), nigh impossible to take down...however it costed around 250 resources...
/edit:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And if one side finally wins the entire planet.....we should have a new planet ready by then. Or HL3. Or Hell will freeze over. Even odds for any of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe the planet would start over or something.
Then all of a sudden the server overloads and crashes.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Tyr's bible talk word of the day that Alkiller didn't know - Parapets.
<img src='http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/forts/glossary/gfx_glossary/parapet.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />