well then you looking at how you want to balance a game. The Top Tier? or the bottem rung. or somewhere inbetween. Are you playing just for fuN and not competively? Well. if your playing just for fun. its impossable to balance any game around that, because competive players will always happen. That is what usualy keeps games going and fun. and I belive it was the devs mission to make this game balanced for top tier competiveplay. and it pretty much is right now. or dang close to it.
In pub play. You realy can't compare balance in pub play because there arn't enough constants. You cant force people not to try. but you can kinda force people to try.
I completely agree that marines are more likely to win in pub play. but its not because thier is an unbalance. it is because a game cant account for people who dont know how to play the game, dont know all teh strategies that can be accounted for. people who dont want to get deep into the game. or people who just dont care, and all they wanna do is b-hop around the map kill other marines.
if your having a hard time playing aliens. and your just playing aliens, you need to go play marines. if your owning everyting, goto another serer to where you get butt handed to you by other skulks. Why? cause then youll learn how to kill marines more effectivly. Take notice of what the uber skulks are doing.
The only other way, you can make this balance. is by taking out skill, and just having it be like some RPG. where all you need to do is point and click. but if you want that. there are already plenty of games like that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+Oct 7 2004, 01:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Oct 7 2004, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For those who play fade well, I suppose it feels great knowing that you'll be the star of the game every time. It'd be nice though if some of the other players could be as important too, however. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually scrim and match fading is all horrible pressure and lots of incriminating guilt-casting from the rest of your clan whenever you die. And a life-long hatred of ladders.
I was under the Hive when you died damnit. Under the Hive. I have witnesses. Thorough inspection will show that the result of your death is indeed "lifelong suckage".
See, we're really easygoing on our fades and they're the star of the show. *cough*
As Bob has stated, life as the designated Fade is not all fame and stardom. There are no set 'hero' classes in matches, the person who helped win the game most, if there is one, is usually determined through the course of the match. It could be a skulk hitting their base as a distraction at a crucial time, or a gorge keeping a sieged hive alive long enough through constant healing and marine evading for his teammates to take the siege outpost down, the lerk that kept his team umbraed and the marines stripped of armor through crafty sporage from various locations. There are endless possibilities.
Heh, it also depends on the clan your in. I belive that during clan play every person is just as important. espilaly at the top tier. that gorge not running away soon enough could be the fatal mistake that makes you lose. just like in foot ball. even though the quarterback gets all the fame. With out the rest of the team to back him up, hes useless.
NS is a team play game. there is no I in team. everyone is important. And as Aliens. you each have a job to do. and you make sure to do it to the best of your abiltie, and you just have to trust everyone else will. Ive been the fade, the lerk, the onos, the skulk, the gorge. ive done just about everything. I firmly belive that each job has just as much pressure as the next.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Oct 7 2004, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Oct 7 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As Bob has stated, life as the designated Fade is not all fame and stardom. There are no set 'hero' classes in matches, the person who helped win the game most, if there is one, is usually determined through the course of the match. It could be a skulk hitting their base as a distraction at a crucial time, or a gorge keeping a sieged hive alive long enough through constant healing and marine evading for his teammates to take the siege outpost down, the lerk that kept his team umbraed and the marines stripped of armor through crafty sporage from various locations. There are endless possibilities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The fade never receives credit for the win even though it's always through him
Trust me ppl I know from exp people treat the fade, no matter how good, like crap
the win for the team should be because of the fade...he does cost 50 fcking res whereas a skulk is free. If you wanna win the game because youre a fade, go pub forlorn, if you wanna win the game because of your team, you can try crawling back to #cri
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 7 2004, 01:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 7 2004, 01:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->well then you looking at how you want to balance a game. The Top Tier? or the bottem rung. or somewhere inbetween.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why not both? I'm not saying the game is unbalanced. I'm saying the game's balance, at lower levels, currently hinges on the fade. At the upper levels, I imagine this is less pronounced (because *everybody* is needed more) but still exists. (And indeed, the pressure that folks have said is put on the fade seems to fit with this idea)
So, lowering the power of the fade, while at the same time raising the power of the other aliens can still maintain overall balance, while making the lower level game less reliant on a single highly skilled player.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you playing just for fuN and not competively? Well. if your playing just for fun. its impossable to balance any game around that, because competive players will always happen. That is what usualy keeps games going and fun. and I belive it was the devs mission to make this game balanced for top tier competiveplay. and it pretty much is right now. or dang close to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wasn't arguing that at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In pub play. You really can't compare balance in pub play because there arn't enough constants. You cant force people not to try. but you can kinda force people to try.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course you can compare balance in pub play. It simply requires a much larger statistical base. If, over the long term in pub play, you see that aliens are 80% more likely to win then you can see there's an imbalance in pub play. (Note, I'm not saying this is the case, of course) If this imbalance isn't apparant in competitive play, then you can deduce that the reason for this imbalance lies in somehow one of the teams having something that requires an inordinate amount of skill to use effectively.
As an analogy: Imagine if by making some sort of strange pistol shot with pixel-perfect aiming and timing while leaping over a certain target on the command chair, you could instantly equip all your team with heavy armor. Now imagine that the aliens were balanced in such a way that they expected your team to have heavy armor. (Skulks doing 150 damage/hit or something silly). For the top tier players that can make this trick shot, the game is balanced. For the rest of the audience? Not so much. Is the solution to just demand all the players learn how to do this particular trick shot? Or is a better solution to change the game so that it's balanced without it?
Where I feel NS has lost sight of some things is that by creating balance for primarily the top level, we've got a version of this strange 'trick-shot' balance. Obviously not anywhere near that pronounced, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I completely agree that marines are more likely to win in pub play. but its not because thier is an unbalance. it is because a game cant account for people who dont know how to play the game, dont know all teh strategies that can be accounted for. people who dont want to get deep into the game. or people who just dont care, and all they wanna do is b-hop around the map kill other marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point to be concerned though, is this a trick-shot type of balance? Where the level of skill required for the game to be balanced is limited to the top 10 or 15% of the player base?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if your having a hard time playing aliens. and your just playing aliens, you need to go play marines. if your owning everyting, goto another serer to where you get butt handed to you by other skulks. Why? cause then youll learn how to kill marines more effectivly. Take notice of what the uber skulks are doing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good advice. I'm a 100% random player myself. I don't even know what some of the alien or marine entrance areas in the ready room look like.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only other way, you can make this balance. is by taking out skill, and just having it be like some RPG. where all you need to do is point and click. but if you want that. there are already plenty of games like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's false. A game can still <b>reward</b> skill without <b>requiring</b> it.
Take something like aiming. The game rewards your skill at aiming by giving you longer survival rates, and a higher score. However, the game doesn't <i>require</i> you have skill at aiming, and you can still get kills and survive for a bit without it. It's completely dependant on the other team.
Now take a look at trying to take down a JP. Put two sets of completely new players together, give JPs to one and whatever to the others. I can tell you right now that the odds are the JPs will win. Why? Because the game <i>requires</i> a certain level of skill to compensate for the other team simply having the JP. This is an imbalance. Not at the upper levels, where that skill is already posessed, but certainly at the lower levels.
Obviously we want the game to be balanced at the top levels. And I've heard from enough folks on here to agree that it sounds like it's very close. However, you ideally want to maintain balance at the lower levels so that two teams of equal skill levels have an equal chance of winning, no matter what that level of skill is (or isn't)
Are marines overpowered? At the lower levels, I believe they are. The lower the skill level of the players in general, the higher the chance that the marine team will win. The reason for this is simply that the fade has a very sharp skill-power ratio, and the game is balanced for the powerful fade.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 7 2004, 03:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 7 2004, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> He's treated like the drummer of a rock band <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So true, on both accounts.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 7 2004, 04:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 7 2004, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Trust me ppl I know from exp people treat the fade, no matter how good, like crap
He's treated like the drummer of a rock band <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually Forlorn that isn't true at all, perhaps you see it that way in your distorted view somehow. I won't add anything else on these forums since I prefer to keep #cridrama at a minimum here. Too bad critical somehow nuked our forum, oh well.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 7 2004, 03:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 7 2004, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fade never receives credit for the win even though it's always through him
Trust me ppl I know from exp people treat the fade, no matter how good, like crap
He's treated like the drummer of a rock band <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What?
I bet you could take the top 5 teams and name the fades on them. I bet you couldn't name the DC builders, gorges, and RT skulks on that same team.
I'm not sure if this is some kind of situation specifically encountered in #cri, but fades always recieve the most credit.
kwil. ill have to agree with most of what you saying. you bring up alot of valid points.
Now to figure out a way to fix it eh?
The only way I can think of fixing the lower rung part of play, with out decimating the higher rung. Would be to have a tutorial of some sort. or maybe a totorial map. that teaches all teh basic skills. From leap bite. blink swipe. (to help kill the jpers) to how to use the jp. etc.
Right now there is ns_bhop to practice some basic aliens and marine stuff. would like to see somethign like that but with moving targets for marines, and other stuff. If I knew how to map better. Id prob try and do it. but other than that all I got are a few rough scetches in my mind, and ideas.
Whats your opinion around a tutorial map that has voice instructions and maybe in map videos. (if possable)? and other than this do you have any shuggestions?
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 7 2004, 03:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 7 2004, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that gorge not running away soon enough could be the fatal mistake that makes you lose. just like in foot ball. even though the quarterback gets all the fame. With out the rest of the team to back him up, hes useless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> heh. Sorry but I jsut have a visula of running with a gorge as a football. He's kinda shaped like football... I wonder if you can kick him far... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Hike!
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God of DOOOM+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God of DOOOM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is a team play game. there is no I in team. everyone is important. And as Aliens. you each have a job to do. and you make sure to do it to the best of your abiltie, and you just have to trust everyone else will. Ive been the fade, the lerk, the onos, the skulk, the gorge. ive done just about everything. I firmly belive that each job has just as much pressure as the next.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True but fades usually have a lot of pressure put on them. Same with onii. But really it's liek you say. It's teamplay to the max. You can a bunch of players really good at combat but without good strategy, teamwork, and communication and your enemy has you beat in those areas, you will loose.
<!--QuoteBegin-Yash+Oct 6 2004, 01:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yash @ Oct 6 2004, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bluee, I have killed more HMGers than I can count by cloaking around a corner and surprising them, <i>as a skulk!</i> I'm not a super-skulk. Anyone can use that tactic, even without cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh god someone must have already quoted this but I just had to do it for myself. I don't have to comment on what is so wrong about this.
cloaking isnt generaly a good counter for anything due to the fact most decent comms know how to counter it very very quickly.How ever If your playing a unchained server, or a CO server. then I can understand it.. and it does make logical sence.
IMO: Threads debating whether or not a certain side is overpowered are pointless... We could have perfectly balanced gameplay that was boring as hell, no fun, either a long stalemate for one side to win, or an instant win for the other side, etc.
balance != fun
Of course, a game _does_ lose a lot of the fun of playing when things are hideously unbalanced... But making a game balanced doesn't necessarily make it fun.
And it's all about the kick-**** fun gameplay, right?
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
If some people are really interested, why not conduct an actual experiment?
Let's say over a period of 100 games, you get a pool of players of varying skills, and you force them to go random every time. This'll eliminate the stacking issue. Record down how many wins for each side, and you'll see if there is some kind of imbalance. Now, repeat experiment, except this time use only newbies. Repeat again, with only intermediate skilled people. Finally, repeat with only expert players. This will help tell if balance for low skilled games is different than with high skilled games.
<!--QuoteBegin-|ds|meatshield+Oct 8 2004, 08:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Oct 8 2004, 08:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let's say over a period of 100 games, you get a pool of players of varying skills, and you force them to go random every time. This'll eliminate the stacking issue. Record down how many wins for each side, and you'll see if there is some kind of imbalance. Now, repeat experiment, except this time use only newbies. Repeat again, with only intermediate skilled people. Finally, repeat with only expert players. This will help tell if balance for low skilled games is different than with high skilled games. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Want to start a project?
Comments
Are you playing just for fuN and not competively?
Well. if your playing just for fun. its impossable to balance any game around that, because competive players will always happen. That is what usualy keeps games going and fun. and I belive it was the devs mission to make this game balanced for top tier competiveplay. and it pretty much is right now. or dang close to it.
In pub play. You realy can't compare balance in pub play because there arn't enough constants. You cant force people not to try. but you can kinda force people to try.
I completely agree that marines are more likely to win in pub play. but its not because thier is an unbalance. it is because a game cant account for people who dont know how to play the game, dont know all teh strategies that can be accounted for. people who dont want to get deep into the game. or people who just dont care, and all they wanna do is b-hop around the map kill other marines.
if your having a hard time playing aliens. and your just playing aliens, you need to go play marines. if your owning everyting, goto another serer to where you get butt handed to you by other skulks. Why? cause then youll learn how to kill marines more effectivly. Take notice of what the uber skulks are doing.
The only other way, you can make this balance. is by taking out skill, and just having it be like some RPG. where all you need to do is point and click. but if you want that. there are already plenty of games like that.
Actually scrim and match fading is all horrible pressure and lots of incriminating guilt-casting from the rest of your clan whenever you die. And a life-long hatred of ladders.
See, we're really easygoing on our fades and they're the star of the show. *cough*
NS is a team play game. there is no I in team. everyone is important. And as Aliens. you each have a job to do. and you make sure to do it to the best of your abiltie, and you just have to trust everyone else will. Ive been the fade, the lerk, the onos, the skulk, the gorge. ive done just about everything. I firmly belive that each job has just as much pressure as the next.
The fade never receives credit for the win even though it's always through him
Trust me ppl I know from exp people treat the fade, no matter how good, like crap
He's treated like the drummer of a rock band
Why not both? I'm not saying the game is unbalanced. I'm saying the game's balance, at lower levels, currently hinges on the fade. At the upper levels, I imagine this is less pronounced (because *everybody* is needed more) but still exists. (And indeed, the pressure that folks have said is put on the fade seems to fit with this idea)
So, lowering the power of the fade, while at the same time raising the power of the other aliens can still maintain overall balance, while making the lower level game less reliant on a single highly skilled player.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you playing just for fuN and not competively?
Well. if your playing just for fun. its impossable to balance any game around that, because competive players will always happen. That is what usualy keeps games going and fun. and I belive it was the devs mission to make this game balanced for top tier competiveplay. and it pretty much is right now. or dang close to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wasn't arguing that at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In pub play. You really can't compare balance in pub play because there arn't enough constants. You cant force people not to try. but you can kinda force people to try.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course you can compare balance in pub play. It simply requires a much larger statistical base. If, over the long term in pub play, you see that aliens are 80% more likely to win then you can see there's an imbalance in pub play. (Note, I'm not saying this is the case, of course) If this imbalance isn't apparant in competitive play, then you can deduce that the reason for this imbalance lies in somehow one of the teams having something that requires an inordinate amount of skill to use effectively.
As an analogy: Imagine if by making some sort of strange pistol shot with pixel-perfect aiming and timing while leaping over a certain target on the command chair, you could instantly equip all your team with heavy armor. Now imagine that the aliens were balanced in such a way that they expected your team to have heavy armor. (Skulks doing 150 damage/hit or something silly). For the top tier players that can make this trick shot, the game is balanced. For the rest of the audience? Not so much. Is the solution to just demand all the players learn how to do this particular trick shot? Or is a better solution to change the game so that it's balanced without it?
Where I feel NS has lost sight of some things is that by creating balance for primarily the top level, we've got a version of this strange 'trick-shot' balance. Obviously not anywhere near that pronounced, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I completely agree that marines are more likely to win in pub play. but its not because thier is an unbalance. it is because a game cant account for people who dont know how to play the game, dont know all teh strategies that can be accounted for. people who dont want to get deep into the game. or people who just dont care, and all they wanna do is b-hop around the map kill other marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point to be concerned though, is this a trick-shot type of balance? Where the level of skill required for the game to be balanced is limited to the top 10 or 15% of the player base?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
if your having a hard time playing aliens. and your just playing aliens, you need to go play marines. if your owning everyting, goto another serer to where you get butt handed to you by other skulks. Why? cause then youll learn how to kill marines more effectivly. Take notice of what the uber skulks are doing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good advice. I'm a 100% random player myself. I don't even know what some of the alien or marine entrance areas in the ready room look like.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The only other way, you can make this balance. is by taking out skill, and just having it be like some RPG. where all you need to do is point and click. but if you want that. there are already plenty of games like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's false. A game can still <b>reward</b> skill without <b>requiring</b> it.
Take something like aiming. The game rewards your skill at aiming by giving you longer survival rates, and a higher score. However, the game doesn't <i>require</i> you have skill at aiming, and you can still get kills and survive for a bit without it. It's completely dependant on the other team.
Now take a look at trying to take down a JP. Put two sets of completely new players together, give JPs to one and whatever to the others. I can tell you right now that the odds are the JPs will win. Why? Because the game <i>requires</i> a certain level of skill to compensate for the other team simply having the JP. This is an imbalance. Not at the upper levels, where that skill is already posessed, but certainly at the lower levels.
Obviously we want the game to be balanced at the top levels. And I've heard from enough folks on here to agree that it sounds like it's very close. However, you ideally want to maintain balance at the lower levels so that two teams of equal skill levels have an equal chance of winning, no matter what that level of skill is (or isn't)
Are marines overpowered? At the lower levels, I believe they are. The lower the skill level of the players in general, the higher the chance that the marine team will win. The reason for this is simply that the fade has a very sharp skill-power ratio, and the game is balanced for the powerful fade.
So true, on both accounts.
He's treated like the drummer of a rock band <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually Forlorn that isn't true at all, perhaps you see it that way in your distorted view somehow. I won't add anything else on these forums since I prefer to keep #cridrama at a minimum here. Too bad critical somehow nuked our forum, oh well.
Trust me ppl I know from exp people treat the fade, no matter how good, like crap
He's treated like the drummer of a rock band <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What?
I bet you could take the top 5 teams and name the fades on them. I bet you couldn't name the DC builders, gorges, and RT skulks on that same team.
I'm not sure if this is some kind of situation specifically encountered in #cri, but fades always recieve the most credit.
Now to figure out a way to fix it eh?
The only way I can think of fixing the lower rung part of play, with out decimating the higher rung. Would be to have a tutorial of some sort. or maybe a totorial map. that teaches all teh basic skills. From leap bite. blink swipe. (to help kill the jpers) to how to use the jp. etc.
Right now there is ns_bhop to practice some basic aliens and marine stuff. would like to see somethign like that but with moving targets for marines, and other stuff. If I knew how to map better. Id prob try and do it. but other than that all I got are a few rough scetches in my mind, and ideas.
Whats your opinion around a tutorial map that has voice instructions and maybe in map videos. (if possable)?
and
other than this do you have any shuggestions?
heh. Sorry but I jsut have a visula of running with a gorge as a football. He's kinda shaped like football... I wonder if you can kick him far... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Hike!
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God of DOOOM+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God of DOOOM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
NS is a team play game. there is no I in team. everyone is important. And as Aliens. you each have a job to do. and you make sure to do it to the best of your abiltie, and you just have to trust everyone else will. Ive been the fade, the lerk, the onos, the skulk, the gorge. ive done just about everything. I firmly belive that each job has just as much pressure as the next.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True but fades usually have a lot of pressure put on them. Same with onii. But really it's liek you say. It's teamplay to the max. You can a bunch of players really good at combat but without good strategy, teamwork, and communication and your enemy has you beat in those areas, you will loose.
I'm not a super-skulk. Anyone can use that tactic, even without cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh god someone must have already quoted this but I just had to do it for myself. I don't have to comment on what is so wrong about this.
If you're smart, you'll use them to your advantage.
balance != fun
Of course, a game _does_ lose a lot of the fun of playing when things are hideously unbalanced... But making a game balanced doesn't necessarily make it fun.
And it's all about the kick-**** fun gameplay, right?
ty for your time (=
Its a small change but its seemed to make a big difference for teams with good skulks.
*shrug* i think ns_ clan play is more balanced now than ever , perfect balance will always be impossible.
Let's say over a period of 100 games, you get a pool of players of varying skills, and you force them to go random every time. This'll eliminate the stacking issue. Record down how many wins for each side, and you'll see if there is some kind of imbalance. Now, repeat experiment, except this time use only newbies. Repeat again, with only intermediate skilled people. Finally, repeat with only expert players. This will help tell if balance for low skilled games is different than with high skilled games.
Want to start a project?