DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
It does take time. Even with hotkeys you got to select the building, pick a spot, time it.And all this time you can NOT help your rines. And the fact that rines can recycle is not a valid fact. When its in use they do not have that res. You need the res to place it.
As for the onos who gets blocked. Its a tactic any onos should expect. never run on low HP, run sooner. never work alone. If you get blocked attack and have buddies who help. CC blocking sure hell aint a disaster for onos. Only when its placed ON the onos, which I think IS a bad thing.
Think of it. 20 res lost (temporarely) which could have been ammo, medpacks, guns, upgrades. And the time to do this STILL counts. Any click a comm has to do wastes time. Period.
Think of it this way. if the comm blocks a onos he stopped 1 kharaa. Yet the comm is ocupied which means 90% of the rines are ocupied. (the other 10% are "selfemployed") Besides WTH does someone go onos. He should make hives and upgrades. RTs even better. If they need a onos to win its a lost battle anywayz, the comm did his job and can have HIS fun. He worked for it. If kharaa have all hives then why the hell can the comm save 20 res on a comm chair? HE should be losing bigtime.
So basicly if someone can spam one CC its weird, if he can spam alot you messed up very early ingame.
CCspam ocupies a comm and by that his entire team, exept the ones who are selfemployed. Simple.
I agree that time is precious to a commander during assaults. Even though its very insignificant (cc blocking shouldn't take you more than a few seconds, really), that time could and should of been spent assisting your rines. But in terms of the risk vs gain factor, I'd happily spend those few seconds to kill that onos so that it doesn't cause a threat to my marines later.
As long as the CC blocks or hinders the onos for even a second, it has done its job. Because 1 second really is a difference between life and death with an onos: Its bulky, its a huge target, its really hard to miss. And yes, having teammates do help, but they don't take ALL the bullets for you, they don't instantly kill the marines for you. Chances are, if the comm screams "I've got the onos blocked, shoot it, hurry, its almost dead", I'm going to ignore that fade/skulk/whatever and kill off that 75 res investment. If the onos completely clears the CC as if it weren't there at all, well then there would be no argument, but really how rare is this?
20 res + a couple dead marines < onos. You get the res back, and your marines can spawn back, phase back, and pick the weapons back up very quickly. But you just took a large bulky lifeform out of the game for atleast a minute. If that person wants to re-onos, he can waste that time in his gestation egg while his hive is being assaulted. Chances are, the hive assault success or defeat would probably be decided before he gets his upgrades.
I really think you need to rethink the onos. He isn't just some big 75 res base breaker. He is the weapon of choice for combatting heavy trains. What can fight HA's better than onos? The onos can devour one whole, instantly taking a heavy out of the game for 20 seconds, then stun the rest for his team. What other life form is as effective for combatting large mobs of marines? Its great and all that you have those rts and that hive going up, but whats going to defend it when the big guns come out? There are times where you need to decide wether a life form is needed or an asset is. A common decision made every game is wether to get the hive up, or fade. If your team is handling them marines well with lerks and skulks, then a fade can't do much more; but sometimes you need that extra umph to beat those marines back.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Aug 20 2004, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Aug 20 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Suggestion would be to make any unbuilt structure something you can walk through.
Granted it means marine spawn could still be lamed up with marines speed building, but it'd also be easier to rush them before they finish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Like in warcraft?
The structure is "ghosted" until someone starts building it?
I like this idea! Simple and effective while still making realism logical sense. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I tend to play my games fast enough to where I don't need to resort to this last line defense.
It won't get you banned on my server but if it is really ticking everyone off I'm going to ask you to stop or go arround with my lil' phaser and zap the blockage away. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the best defense is a good offense<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
~edit~ gimme a break word filter, PO is not a swear word
I much rather have them put down TFs and electrify them
at least that way its attacking and fair play <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh I didn't said I liked it or would do it myself. I just said I won't ban you.
Besides it's funny when I pull out my little admin_phaser and blast the stuff. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
it IS fair play. Its not a bug, cheat or exploit. Why? cause its been there since the very first freaking version, and if they STILL haven't fixed it I will never call it any of the above.
I concur, in my opinion, I believe that CC blocking is a viable strategy for quick thinking commanders. Other marine structures/items have been used for something they weren't primarily meant to be used. Armories are placed near vents sometimes to offer marines an extra boost, mine ladders have been created to reach higher level vents. The point of games is to win, you do what you can to fustrate the other team and hamper them to achieve your victory. If CC blocking was such an evil and bad thing, I'm sure the PTers, programmers, Flayra would've put it as one of the higher priorities on their fix list.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Sep 1 2004, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Sep 1 2004, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I concur, in my opinion, I believe that CC blocking is a viable strategy for quick thinking commanders. Other marine structures/items have been used for something they weren't primarily meant to be used. Armories are placed near vents sometimes to offer marines an extra boost, mine ladders have been created to reach higher level vents. The point of games is to win, you do what you can to fustrate the other team and hamper them to achieve your victory. If CC blocking was such an evil and bad thing, I'm sure the PTers, programmers, Flayra would've put it as one of the higher priorities on their fix list. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly.
CC blocking is legit. Why do we all hate it though? Because some guy in a chair 100 feet away just owned you as a fade.
Yes, sano but let us not talk about the many newbies who decide to go onos and their learnings are ruined by a single cc because of the commanders lust for winning. And more importantly how aggressive players become to those who do this in public play. And anyhow in public play its better to spam the marine with meds for he will block an onos better then any building.
Everyone in comeptitive play is used to it but newbies need some learning time.
The way you guys talk, you act like the Marine team should care if the alien team is enjoying themselves and having fun, or the other way around.
Think about it, if you frustrate the aliens as marines, you demoralize them, you demoralize them, you've almost won the game. Even if it's a cheap tactic, it's still legit and you should all learn to live with it and exploit every opportunity to have you pwn the other team, even if it is as simple as frustrating them.
The difference was that in 1.04 the marine team wouldn't usually survive an encounter with an onos, so there was no need to block them. It wasn't hit-and-run like it's now. So those "It has always been there" arguments aren't valid.
Understand that it isn't very difficult to beat a pub team. Not only is it not very difficult but if a skilled player was to play at their fulliest to win, then the game would be won when it began. What you don't understand is that while you are learning (and approve of the following tactic), those who know alot more then you, already know how to win the game 10 different ways, and therefore they play it lightly. More importantly not only do they play it lightly but they enjoy to see newbies learn the game. If you want real competition go play in cal. There you can use any tactic you want and nothing will be said against you. But ill give you a simple example of a pub game.
The marine team takes much of the map quickly and effectively. The aliens have no chance of winning because none of them know the tactics to win such a hopeless game. So they decide to fade and learn something new. To their surprise as they try to learn how to battle a single marine with a shotgun the commander drops 2 comm chairs to block the fade in. Now not only did the newbie lose, but he didn't learn anything. But how do you think that newbie feels? The pub is a training ground for newbies and moderate players. Now you may understand why so many players are outraged by this.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
if they want to learn onos they can go play COMBAT. Its like made for that you know.
Its simple, in NS classic onos is a danger. It has to go, if not one way, then another.
indeed I saw so much matches where we had:
mine ladders armory stairs armslabventblocks OCstairs WOLs actually stacking chambers on each other (not in) is the biggest used exploit ever.
I aint gona nag WOL each time I get owned by one. Sure, a CC is alot less expensive but a WOL is stronger. Stops anything unless you get sieges or nades in.
Point is, both sides have things used not be used from day one.
<!--QuoteBegin-Blarg+Sep 2 2004, 11:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blarg @ Sep 2 2004, 11:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Onos and fade can jump over the CC blocking them. I think it only buys an extra few seconds maybe worth the res maybe not. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A few seconds? As an onos vs a large group of marines, you'd be dead by the time you figured out what the hell just stopped you in mid-retreat.
I've found it very frustrating to see marines march into the siege spot just outside C12 (on ns_veil, when assaulting Pipeline hive) and the comm drops a cc blocking the vent completely, and another one to block the narrow doorway leading to Pipe. Wow, gg, onos can't get in, it's a deathtrap for fades, and it's not hard to guard the back (which is the only avenue of approach).
That's one example where it's impossible to stop the siege unless you have a godlike fade or absolutely incompetent marines. Tell me it's not remotely lame.
<!--QuoteBegin-Parhelion+Sep 2 2004, 10:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parhelion @ Sep 2 2004, 10:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ... That's one example where it's impossible to stop the siege unless you have a godlike fade or absolutely incompetent marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or just use your admin_phaser and start zapping when it gets out of hand. :-)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tell me it's not remotely lame.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm tempted to just say it isn't because I'm a smart-arse. ;-)
But yay sometimes it can be lame, and my suggestions still stand... still... no one reading... -_-
What I think is the best of the three suggestions I made to fix the issue: <span style='color:yellow'>Cap the # of CC's to a max number of 2, when you have two you may recycle one of them at any time for res.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--Alpha-+Sep 1 2004, 04:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Alpha- @ Sep 1 2004, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone in comeptitive play is used to it but newbies need some learning time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that newbies need time to learn. I'm not saying that servers with rules against CC blocking should remove the rule, server rules are there for a reason and up to the admins who run the server. If a server has a rule against CC blocking, then it shouldn't be done. But, I don't think shouting bloody murder to CC blocking in general is the way to approach this subject, some servers prefer to have a more competitive atmosphere.
Onos or fades going into a marine base by themselves always run that higher risk of getting killed, if someone doesn't want to die as an onos/fade while attacking marine base by themselves, wait for more aliens to back you up. Lerk + umbra works wonders, skulks splitting up and attacking the base with you from different angles also helps, even gorge with bile bomb will have its uses.
D.C. Darkling : Combat was just introduced. Understand that many of the best learned in NS and understand the benefit of learning in such a environment. Learning in ns_maps is much more reliable then learning in co_maps. We are not talking about learning to shoot/ambush, we are talking about how to handle situations. Situations that only occur in ns_Maps, therefore your idea is completely wrong. And those situations do not include cc blocking for it is hard enough for newbie and moderate players to handle them without cc blocking.
sano: sano name me 1 leet server that a) thinks its all pro and b) Does not use some kick plugin for its regs or clan members to get in. The fact is, if you want a competitive environment you have to organize one. Alike the pugs or cal. And unless the server posts a message "No newbies", there will always be newbies playing in it anyhow. Lastly sano you and i know its not the good players who cry foul play but those who are learning. And they are right in a sense because their learning time has been stolen from them was it not?
<!--QuoteBegin-D.C. Darkling+Sep 2 2004, 07:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (D.C. Darkling @ Sep 2 2004, 07:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if they want to learn onos they can go play COMBAT. Its like made for that you know.
Its simple, in NS classic onos is a danger. It has to go, if not one way, then another.
indeed I saw so much matches where we had:
mine ladders armory stairs armslabventblocks OCstairs WOLs actually stacking chambers on each other (not in) is the biggest used exploit ever.
I aint gona nag WOL each time I get owned by one. Sure, a CC is alot less expensive but a WOL is stronger. Stops anything unless you get sieges or nades in.
Point is, both sides have things used not be used from day one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Rofl, what matches do you play? "Oh noes, spending 50 res so a gorge can climb, exploitzor!"
And ventblocking isn't legit in matches. Report whoever does it, because you've just got a free win.
<!--QuoteBegin-degamer106+Aug 21 2004, 10:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (degamer106 @ Aug 21 2004, 10:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you see when ppl who are fade or onos get killed by com chair blocking, they get all **** off and have to cry abuot the commander using exploits or what-not.
ITS PART OF THE GAME. IF THE DEVELEPORS DIDNT WANT IT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN THEY WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT.
god this is almost like those pubbers who whine about bunny hopping as an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its morons like you that ruin this bueatiful game you know?
As for CC blocking, is a bannable offense on most Australian servers, then again being a shitstain pest is too (both moves I like very much since co brought CS morons to NS). Smart move if you ask me. Very smart. I hate it even when I'm on the marine team.
EDIT: WOL's are a good thing, just think of all that wasted res, also if the marines are dumb enough to let a gorge build 100 res + in one area then they deserve to loose. Plus if he can afford that sort of thing you have lost anyway short of a miracle.
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
edited September 2004
Since I never comm, my opinions are abit <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
I think its alright as it will cost you the res to do it. i.e. if a onos is charging your HAs you drop one infront of them to shield them for that split second, or to trap them in (that one seems abit more uncool).
Then it brings up the Alien side structures when gorges can build on top of IPs and trap marines (but this is near end game).
As I've played I geuss its better to not go with the CC blocking.
EDIT: Oh yea, people could as easily block with a TF alittle smaller, but still confuses the onos, what about that? still counts as blocking.
If it's limited for 2 CC, then comms will use some other structure, this is not a solution..
And regarding res costs of CC blocking - you probably don't realize how CHEAP it really is. You just need some modest cash, and then, when you recycle it, you get most res back, you loose nothing. Medspam is more costly than CC block and often less effective :-)
Price of CC block is: tadaaa ... 4 res!! Yes, 2 meds !! Yes, you need 20 in the cash, but thats not much either, and then - recycle and you get 16 back..
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I never said it wasn't expensive, I said sometimes some ppl do. (I won't. to expensive indeed)
I have not seen ventblocks in months but its still a example.
And you, you are correct. ppl SHOULD learn in classic. But I mean the basic attacks etc can be learned in combat. We don't need a dude "learning" in classic not even knowing the most basic moves/attacks.
I once commed a funny game with plenty of cc blocking. The game went on for about 90 minutes with the first 60 minutes being a great tug-of-war. (The map is one with Mother and a ramp leading up to the marine base in a starship... the one with a mess hall). For the last 30 minutes, we held off 13 waves of determined aliens! First, we did a whole mine the causeway deal (we had over 200 rez when we lost...). It was funny watching the first 3 onos die to mines coming up the damn causeway. We only used 2 com chairs to block and it was sooo funny watching onos trying to get out. Eventually we got a fade barrage going but we made multiple fully upgraded marine charges down the causeway... fun times!
That was the best loss I ever had (we managed to kill and secure every hive during the game, but they always had onos + fades running around the map).
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
in that map with mother you got one hive (bad on names so I forgot) where you can place a base ontop of something. Byebye onos range. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
As for the onos who gets blocked. Its a tactic any onos should expect. never run on low HP, run sooner. never work alone. If you get blocked attack and have buddies who help. CC blocking sure hell aint a disaster for onos. Only when its placed ON the onos, which I think IS a bad thing.
Think of it. 20 res lost (temporarely) which could have been ammo, medpacks, guns, upgrades. And the time to do this STILL counts. Any click a comm has to do wastes time. Period.
Think of it this way. if the comm blocks a onos he stopped 1 kharaa. Yet the comm is ocupied which means 90% of the rines are ocupied. (the other 10% are "selfemployed") Besides WTH does someone go onos. He should make hives and upgrades. RTs even better. If they need a onos to win its a lost battle anywayz, the comm did his job and can have HIS fun. He worked for it. If kharaa have all hives then why the hell can the comm save 20 res on a comm chair? HE should be losing bigtime.
So basicly if someone can spam one CC its weird, if he can spam alot you messed up very early ingame.
CCspam ocupies a comm and by that his entire team, exept the ones who are selfemployed. Simple.
As long as the CC blocks or hinders the onos for even a second, it has done its job. Because 1 second really is a difference between life and death with an onos: Its bulky, its a huge target, its really hard to miss. And yes, having teammates do help, but they don't take ALL the bullets for you, they don't instantly kill the marines for you. Chances are, if the comm screams "I've got the onos blocked, shoot it, hurry, its almost dead", I'm going to ignore that fade/skulk/whatever and kill off that 75 res investment. If the onos completely clears the CC as if it weren't there at all, well then there would be no argument, but really how rare is this?
20 res + a couple dead marines < onos. You get the res back, and your marines can spawn back, phase back, and pick the weapons back up very quickly. But you just took a large bulky lifeform out of the game for atleast a minute. If that person wants to re-onos, he can waste that time in his gestation egg while his hive is being assaulted. Chances are, the hive assault success or defeat would probably be decided before he gets his upgrades.
I really think you need to rethink the onos. He isn't just some big 75 res base breaker. He is the weapon of choice for combatting heavy trains. What can fight HA's better than onos? The onos can devour one whole, instantly taking a heavy out of the game for 20 seconds, then stun the rest for his team. What other life form is as effective for combatting large mobs of marines? Its great and all that you have those rts and that hive going up, but whats going to defend it when the big guns come out? There are times where you need to decide wether a life form is needed or an asset is. A common decision made every game is wether to get the hive up, or fade. If your team is handling them marines well with lerks and skulks, then a fade can't do much more; but sometimes you need that extra umph to beat those marines back.
It will get you banned on my regular server, anyway.
Granted it means marine spawn could still be lamed up with marines speed building, but it'd also be easier to rush them before they finish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like in warcraft?
The structure is "ghosted" until someone starts building it?
I like this idea! Simple and effective while still making realism logical sense. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[edit]
oops, 20 res not 30 >_<
and besides, at least now all you can do is block with structures, instead of actually trapping lifeforms
[/edit]
It won't get you banned on my server but if it is really ticking everyone off I'm going to ask you to stop or go arround with my lil' phaser and zap the blockage away. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the best defense is a good offense<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
~edit~ gimme a break word filter, PO is not a swear word
I much rather have them put down TFs and electrify them
at least that way its attacking and fair play <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Besides it's funny when I pull out my little admin_phaser and blast the stuff. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Exactly.
CC blocking is legit. Why do we all hate it though? Because some guy in a chair 100 feet away just owned you as a fade.
Everyone in comeptitive play is used to it but newbies need some learning time.
Think about it, if you frustrate the aliens as marines, you demoralize them, you demoralize them, you've almost won the game. Even if it's a cheap tactic, it's still legit and you should all learn to live with it and exploit every opportunity to have you pwn the other team, even if it is as simple as frustrating them.
The marine team takes much of the map quickly and effectively. The aliens have no chance of winning because none of them know the tactics to win such a hopeless game. So they decide to fade and learn something new. To their surprise as they try to learn how to battle a single marine with a shotgun the commander drops 2 comm chairs to block the fade in. Now not only did the newbie lose, but he didn't learn anything. But how do you think that newbie feels? The pub is a training ground for newbies and moderate players. Now you may understand why so many players are outraged by this.
Its simple, in NS classic onos is a danger. It has to go, if not one way, then another.
indeed I saw so much matches where we had:
mine ladders
armory stairs
armslabventblocks
OCstairs
WOLs
actually stacking chambers on each other (not in) is the biggest used exploit ever.
I aint gona nag WOL each time I get owned by one. Sure, a CC is alot less expensive but a WOL is stronger. Stops anything unless you get sieges or nades in.
Point is, both sides have things used not be used from day one.
You can easilly kill onos or even fade, and disable OC wall.. For the price of some 4 meds .. (if you recycle back)
A few seconds? As an onos vs a large group of marines, you'd be dead by the time you figured out what the hell just stopped you in mid-retreat.
I've found it very frustrating to see marines march into the siege spot just outside C12 (on ns_veil, when assaulting Pipeline hive) and the comm drops a cc blocking the vent completely, and another one to block the narrow doorway leading to Pipe. Wow, gg, onos can't get in, it's a deathtrap for fades, and it's not hard to guard the back (which is the only avenue of approach).
That's one example where it's impossible to stop the siege unless you have a godlike fade or absolutely incompetent marines. Tell me it's not remotely lame.
Or just use your admin_phaser and start zapping when it gets out of hand.
:-)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tell me it's not remotely lame.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm tempted to just say it isn't because I'm a smart-arse. ;-)
But yay sometimes it can be lame, and my suggestions still stand... still... no one reading... -_-
What I think is the best of the three suggestions I made to fix the issue:
<span style='color:yellow'>Cap the # of CC's to a max number of 2, when you have two you may recycle one of them at any time for res.</span>
It can't get any simpler than that...
I agree that newbies need time to learn. I'm not saying that servers with rules against CC blocking should remove the rule, server rules are there for a reason and up to the admins who run the server. If a server has a rule against CC blocking, then it shouldn't be done. But, I don't think shouting bloody murder to CC blocking in general is the way to approach this subject, some servers prefer to have a more competitive atmosphere.
Onos or fades going into a marine base by themselves always run that higher risk of getting killed, if someone doesn't want to die as an onos/fade while attacking marine base by themselves, wait for more aliens to back you up. Lerk + umbra works wonders, skulks splitting up and attacking the base with you from different angles also helps, even gorge with bile bomb will have its uses.
sano: sano name me 1 leet server that a) thinks its all pro and b) Does not use some kick plugin for its regs or clan members to get in. The fact is, if you want a competitive environment you have to organize one. Alike the pugs or cal. And unless the server posts a message "No newbies", there will always be newbies playing in it anyhow. Lastly sano you and i know its not the good players who cry foul play but those who are learning. And they are right in a sense because their learning time has been stolen from them was it not?
Its simple, in NS classic onos is a danger. It has to go, if not one way, then another.
indeed I saw so much matches where we had:
mine ladders
armory stairs
armslabventblocks
OCstairs
WOLs
actually stacking chambers on each other (not in) is the biggest used exploit ever.
I aint gona nag WOL each time I get owned by one. Sure, a CC is alot less expensive but a WOL is stronger. Stops anything unless you get sieges or nades in.
Point is, both sides have things used not be used from day one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rofl, what matches do you play? "Oh noes, spending 50 res so a gorge can climb, exploitzor!"
And ventblocking isn't legit in matches. Report whoever does it, because you've just got a free win.
ITS PART OF THE GAME. IF THE DEVELEPORS DIDNT WANT IT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN THEY WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT.
god this is almost like those pubbers who whine about bunny hopping as an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its morons like you that ruin this bueatiful game you know?
As for CC blocking, is a bannable offense on most Australian servers, then again being a shitstain pest is too (both moves I like very much since co brought CS morons to NS). Smart move if you ask me. Very smart. I hate it even when I'm on the marine team.
EDIT: WOL's are a good thing, just think of all that wasted res, also if the marines are dumb enough to let a gorge build 100 res + in one area then they deserve to loose. Plus if he can afford that sort of thing you have lost anyway short of a miracle.
I think its alright as it will cost you the res to do it. i.e. if a onos is charging your HAs you drop one infront of them to shield them for that split second, or to trap them in (that one seems abit more uncool).
Then it brings up the Alien side structures when gorges can build on top of IPs and trap marines (but this is near end game).
As I've played I geuss its better to not go with the CC blocking.
EDIT: Oh yea, people could as easily block with a TF alittle smaller, but still confuses the onos, what about that? still counts as blocking.
And regarding res costs of CC blocking - you probably don't realize how CHEAP it really is. You just need some modest cash, and then, when you recycle it, you get most res back, you loose nothing. Medspam is more costly than CC block and often less effective :-)
Price of CC block is:
tadaaa ... 4 res!!
Yes, 2 meds !!
Yes, you need 20 in the cash, but thats not much either, and then - recycle and you get 16 back..
I have not seen ventblocks in months but its still a example.
And you, you are correct. ppl SHOULD learn in classic. But I mean the basic attacks etc can be learned in combat. We don't need a dude "learning" in classic not even knowing the most basic moves/attacks.
That was the best loss I ever had (we managed to kill and secure every hive during the game, but they always had onos + fades running around the map).