<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+Aug 21 2004, 07:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X @ Aug 21 2004, 07:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say alls fair in love and war, if the rines have the res to use that tactic then let them use it.
course I don't think sporing threw closed vents is unfair either <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I laugh at this. Really.
You drop the CC as the lifeform is running. Lifeform is blocked for those few precious seconds and DIES. Comm RECYCLES unbuilt structure, which gives...what? 80% of res back? It's perfectly fine, though, because it cost them res!
<!--QuoteBegin-MistenTH+Aug 21 2004, 12:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MistenTH @ Aug 21 2004, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you plop a CC down at tanith's MS exits, there isn't enough height clearance for an onos to jump over. There probably are several places in all the NS maps that have similar problems.
Lower starting HP for unbuilt structures would be better overall. It's currently 50% and goes up with building. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, they CAN climb over it. Me and some buddies were screwing around in a match and filled both halways with CC's, tons of IP's inside MS, and they could still get inside.
yes if they boost one another. but if an onos is running away IT CANT JUMP OVER THE CC. thats why its lame, thats why it should be removed, and until it is it should be a bannable offence.
<!--QuoteBegin-Silicon+Aug 21 2004, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Silicon @ Aug 21 2004, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the same people who approve of this so called, sorry excuse for a "tactic" are probably the same people who probably stack marines/only play marines, otherwise you wouldn't mind it being done to you, now would you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No I really dont mind if its done to me
you see when ppl who are fade or onos get killed by com chair blocking, they get all **** off and have to cry abuot the commander using exploits or what-not.
ITS PART OF THE GAME. IF THE DEVELEPORS DIDNT WANT IT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN THEY WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT.
god this is almost like those pubbers who whine about bunny hopping as an exploit.
<!--QuoteBegin-degamer106+Aug 22 2004, 11:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (degamer106 @ Aug 22 2004, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ITS PART OF THE GAME. IF THE DEVELEPORS DIDNT WANT IT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN THEY WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no, they really dun want cc-blocking. but its esstential so they cant remove it, what can u do if u r playing nancy without a cc replaceable? wait for the oc garden up infront of ms?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ITS PART OF THE GAME. IF THE DEVELEPORS DIDNT WANT IT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN THEY WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't even think of going there. There are several other things that are regarded as exploits that can still be done. Guess they're also part of the game because they haven't been removed or fixed yet, huh?
I dont approve of it. Like you care, honestly just because you or I denouce it, it won't stop anyone.
Here's a tip: Take a nap Wake up a few hours later Realize there will always be lamers out to ruin your fun Become a pesimist and take another nap.
ORRRRRR...
You could ban/kick any one who does this. Of course there is no way to stop the 'random' (note the quotes) placement of cc's. This is because they have to go anywhere so the rines can set up a base anywhere. Of course you knew that.
If i get CC blocked i'm thinking kudos to the comm. He's obviously got a presence of mind and is a quick thinker to react quickly and effectively to deal with higher lifeforms rather than letting them run wild and kicking his team's ****.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I think its ok. it uses res it uses time it wastes space it helps
Who cares if its not being used for what it was intented to do so. I sure hell don't. IT WORKS. Same for bunnyhoppers. same for the old OC on IP trick. Same for elecing hives. Same for blocking onos with massive unbuild turrets. (I did once) Same for dumping entire wols out. IT WORKS.
If you are willing to take the time, effort and res. Let it be.
What's the use of limiting comm chairs if a comm can just as easily turret block? Ploping three in a hall would really mess up an onos.
It's in the game, so I'll accept it. But I'm thinking of work arounds... perhaps no dropping in a certain proximity of an alien life form? But that could be exploited to give away locations of aliens, as well as hinder med spamming. Yeah, if the structure could be walk-through until, say, half or fully built, that would be fine with me. There may be some collision detection problems, but it's a start. I'm against a weaker structure to start, as that 50% has to exist for all structures, and all structures can be used for blocking too. Perhaps a multiplier of onos damage on unbuilt structures?
Sadly, the other current 'solution' for this 'problem' is to kick and ban people who do it.
If/when Natural Selection gets a single player campaign, I'd love to see a level that mentions and encourages blocking for victory.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Aug 22 2004, 05:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Aug 22 2004, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thats I think. Its great getting around OC spammage (WoL) and just dumping comm chairs so you can get around it all. Fun stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A wall of lame takes a lot of res and time to make. Not to mention that the gorge actually has be where he wants the WoL to be in order to build it. Its not fair that the commander can <i>safely</i> drop a cc where ever he wants, without using the same amount of effort the gorge did.
Can you do it? Yeah you can. Was there an exploit in Half-life two years ago where you could type something (I forget what it was exactly) into the console and see though some walls? Yeah there was. Was that what the command was intended to be used for? I sure hope it wasn't. Did it make having a AWP on cs_assault a lot more fun? Sure did. Did it make getting pegged in the head while on top of the roof on cs_assault after you fully loaded yourself out from below fun? Hell no.
Think of this in terms of fun. You saved 75 resources, maybe you should have spent it some other way but you became an onos. You are a big bad **** and it took you a lil' while to acquire this many resources (Just imagine this game is challenging and not an alien's raping). In my opinion, and I think you will all agree with me, rushing into a seige base, doing some damage, and when you go to escape you get blocked by a marine structure strictly to block your path is not fun. This player spent time and saved resources and I think he deserves a bit of fun.
Think of it like buying a car and you crash it almost immediately. Buying a new computer and having the hard drive fail within two weeks. Buying HL2 and finding out your CD-key is in use. Point is that when a player goes Onos they did it because they expected to have fun and they saved up for it.
Fighting a good battle and getting blocked by a building when you could have easily have lived is lame. Does it get the job done? Yeah it does if you are a rine, but if real sports were viewed the same way low blows would be legal in boxing, sand paper would be legal in baseball, steroids would be legal in all sports. Is it fun to box against someone who hits you with a nut shot? or bat against a pitcher using sand paper? It certainly is not and that's why such things are illegal in those sports.
That's what's great about computer games. You can change them so that it is impossible for someone to use such "lame" tactics.
There should be some answer to this in the upcoming patch I would hope as I really don't think that Marine buildings were ment to be used as such. Just like how pitchers weren't ment to throw curve balls with a scuffed up baseball. If one of the purposes of the CC were to block an Onos I would expect "and can block enemy aliens from passing/escaping" to be added to the cl_autohelp command.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Aug 22 2004, 08:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Aug 22 2004, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You could say that for a commander building a siege base, then. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> a seige base still requires time and alot of res to build, and the marines building it have a high risk of being attacked
<!--QuoteBegin-D.C. Darkling+Aug 22 2004, 04:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (D.C. Darkling @ Aug 22 2004, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think its ok. it uses res it uses time it wastes space it helps
Who cares if its not being used for what it was intented to do so. I sure hell don't. IT WORKS. Same for bunnyhoppers. same for the old OC on IP trick. Same for elecing hives. Same for blocking onos with massive unbuild turrets. (I did once) Same for dumping entire wols out. IT WORKS.
If you are willing to take the time, effort and res. Let it be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure about the recycling parameters, but i Do know that its either 100% or 80%. So putting that chair down and then recycling would cost you at most 4 res after all was said and done. It doesn't take time at all, it doesn't waste space (any space it blocks is considered well used space) and the only downside to it is that you need 20 res to place it. That means in the end at most a 4 res endevour killed off a 50/75 res investment. Thats totally fair.
Bunny hopping was left in <i>intentionally</i> for khaara. Electrifying hives is a viable strategy because it requires a large res investment, and you need marines to build the tfs for it to work.
The fact is that CC blocking (or any structure blocking for that matter):
-> Doesn't cost alot : 0 or 20% of the original cost. -> Effective even when the structure is not built. -> Effective to the point where its use can cost the opposing team upwards of 50 res with virtually no loss to the other side.
Of course, all this meaning less if Flayra, as noted in Rapier7's post, really did approve of it. (Can anyone confirm this?).
The only real remedy to this I can think of is, as suggested earlier, to let anything walk through the structure (noclip) until it is built. This leads to its own problems, though, such as things getting inside the building when it becomes built.
Let's just ignore the intended vs. exploit arguments for a minute here, okay? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it was intended. Imagine that CC blocking was just recently patched in as an alien-blocking strategy and we're arguing about whether or not it should stay.
It's a matter of Risk(Cost, Difficulty, etc) vs. Reward. Is the reward high? Yeah, I'd say it is. You block an Onos for at least a couple seconds and he dies. That's a lot of time and res down the drain for aliens. But is the risk high enough to justify the reward? Most definitely not. First of all, fail or succeed, this "strategy" costs only a couple res. Recycle the unbuilt CC for the majority of its price and the CC block only cost you a couple res. On top of that, it's not difficult at all; just as long as the comm is watching the battle and the Onos has to escape through a hallway, all he has to do is put a CC down in the middle and the Onos is screwed. He can even drop it ahead of time if he's not good enough to time it properly, and it will still cost the Onos precious seconds even if he jumps over it(or block the hallway off completely if the ceiling is low). Almost no skill necessary.
In other words, what we have here is a tactic with extremely high rewards at little to no risk. Whether or not it's an exploit is irrelevant; it's obviously not balanced, much less fun. It needs to be removed. The ideal solution is to make unbuilt structures intangible so they can't block anything. Alternately they could start at significantly lower HP values(one gore from an Onos) and scale up faster, which also fixes the majority of structure-related exploits(OC distracting, dropping early game nodes to block gorges).
<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Ben+Aug 22 2004, 06:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Ben @ Aug 22 2004, 06:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If i get CC blocked i'm thinking kudos to the comm. He's obviously got a presence of mind and is a quick thinker to react quickly and effectively to deal with higher lifeforms rather than letting them run wild and kicking his team's ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and I used to think a properly armed/upgraded squad of marines that followed orders was a viable way to deal with higher lifeforms. If they aren't upgraded enough/have proper weaponry then either the alien team did a good job of choking them (part of a strategy game), the commander sucked, or the marines sucked.
and if a fade/onos is on his 3rd hit and run attack and the commander is sitting right there it's pretty easy to see him run in, click your CC button, watch him gore, see him turn around, and click. I wouldn't exactly give a commander kudos for that. You are right though ... he did do something about the higher lifeform instead of sitting around.
I think the arguement is more if it's an honorable strategy not if it's practical/useful (which everyone knows it is). Of course it's pretty practical to throw sand in the eyes of a man whom you are about to box since your chances of winning are significantly higher. It is not exactly smiled upon though.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Aug 22 2004, 10:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Aug 22 2004, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let's just ignore the intended vs. exploit arguments for a minute here, okay? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it was intended. Imagine that CC blocking was just recently patched in as an alien-blocking strategy and we're arguing about whether or not it should stay.
It's a matter of Risk(Cost, Difficulty, etc) vs. Reward. Is the reward high? Yeah, I'd say it is. You block an Onos for at least a couple seconds and he dies. That's a lot of time and res down the drain for aliens. But is the risk high enough to justify the reward? Most definitely not. First of all, fail or succeed, this "strategy" costs only a couple res. Recycle the unbuilt CC for the majority of its price and the CC block only cost you a couple res. On top of that, it's not difficult at all; just as long as the comm is watching the battle and the Onos has to escape through a hallway, all he has to do is put a CC down in the middle and the Onos is screwed. He can even drop it ahead of time if he's not good enough to time it properly, and it will still cost the Onos precious seconds even if he jumps over it(or block the hallway off completely if the ceiling is low). Almost no skill necessary.
In other words, <b>what we have here is a tactic with extremely high rewards at little to no risk. Whether or not it's an exploit is irrelevant; it's obviously not balanced, much less fun. It needs to be removed.</b> The ideal solution is to make unbuilt structures intangible so they can't block anything. Alternately they could start at significantly lower HP values(one gore from an Onos) and scale up faster, which also fixes the majority of structure-related exploits(OC distracting, dropping early game nodes to block gorges).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This entire post has been repeated for emphasis, with further emphasis on the bold sentence. Well said, Zek.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bait-Boy+Aug 22 2004, 11:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bait-Boy @ Aug 22 2004, 11:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but also remember that if a comm is placing a CC, e is not helping his marines in a fight, which isnt the best idea in the world <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> With practice, you can be extremely quick with the hotkeys. I can put down a res node within seconds of the request: Spacebar, Q, A, click, and i'm done and move on to other things. Honestly, putting down a CC isn't going to be that game breaker where that medpack meant the difference between a dead hive and a live hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Flayra said it himself that CC blocking is legal. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Aug 23 2004, 08:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Aug 23 2004, 08:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Flayra said it himself that CC blocking is legal. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone care to supply a quote for this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> IIRC, The most he said in regards to that is "It's their res", or words to that effect. In other words, indifference as opposed to outright embracement.
Though it was in regards to clan games, and also a long while back. (Didn't recycling give a lot less res back many builds ago?)
Comments
course I don't think sporing threw closed vents is unfair either <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I laugh at this. Really.
You drop the CC as the lifeform is running. Lifeform is blocked for those few precious seconds and DIES. Comm RECYCLES unbuilt structure, which gives...what? 80% of res back? It's perfectly fine, though, because it cost them res!
Oh, wait.
Lower starting HP for unbuilt structures would be better overall. It's currently 50% and goes up with building. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they CAN climb over it. Me and some buddies were screwing around in a match and filled both halways with CC's, tons of IP's inside MS, and they could still get inside.
But with strategic placement in small hallways, it doesn't really matter.
No I really dont mind if its done to me
ITS PART OF THE GAME. IF THE DEVELEPORS DIDNT WANT IT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN THEY WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT.
god this is almost like those pubbers who whine about bunny hopping as an exploit.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, they really dun want cc-blocking. but its esstential so they cant remove it, what can u do if u r playing nancy without a cc replaceable? wait for the oc garden up infront of ms?
Don't even think of going there. There are several other things that are regarded as exploits that can still be done. Guess they're also part of the game because they haven't been removed or fixed yet, huh?
Here's a tip:
Take a nap
Wake up a few hours later
Realize there will always be lamers out to ruin your fun
Become a pesimist and take another nap.
ORRRRRR...
You could ban/kick any one who does this. Of course there is no way to stop the 'random' (note the quotes) placement of cc's. This is because they have to go anywhere so the rines can set up a base anywhere. Of course you knew that.
<!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"OGMFTW TEHY HAVE NOT REMOFED IT SO ITS TEH LEGEL, I WILL DROP CC WERE I LEIK"
I LOVED THAT ROTATING DOOR, MAN.
it uses res
it uses time
it wastes space
it helps
Who cares if its not being used for what it was intented to do so. I sure hell don't. IT WORKS. Same for bunnyhoppers. same for the old OC on IP trick. Same for elecing hives. Same for blocking onos with massive unbuild turrets. (I did once)
Same for dumping entire wols out. IT WORKS.
If you are willing to take the time, effort and res. Let it be.
It's in the game, so I'll accept it. But I'm thinking of work arounds... perhaps no dropping in a certain proximity of an alien life form? But that could be exploited to give away locations of aliens, as well as hinder med spamming. Yeah, if the structure could be walk-through until, say, half or fully built, that would be fine with me. There may be some collision detection problems, but it's a start. I'm against a weaker structure to start, as that 50% has to exist for all structures, and all structures can be used for blocking too. Perhaps a multiplier of onos damage on unbuilt structures?
Sadly, the other current 'solution' for this 'problem' is to kick and ban people who do it.
If/when Natural Selection gets a single player campaign, I'd love to see a level that mentions and encourages blocking for victory.
A wall of lame takes a lot of res and time to make. Not to mention that the gorge actually has be where he wants the WoL to be in order to build it. Its not fair that the commander can <i>safely</i> drop a cc where ever he wants, without using the same amount of effort the gorge did.
Look, there are ways that the NS devs can fix CC blocking. Flayra said it himself that CC blocking is legal.
Case in point. You don't like it? Host your own server and enforce your own rules.
Think of this in terms of fun. You saved 75 resources, maybe you should have spent it some other way but you became an onos. You are a big bad **** and it took you a lil' while to acquire this many resources (Just imagine this game is challenging and not an alien's raping). In my opinion, and I think you will all agree with me, rushing into a seige base, doing some damage, and when you go to escape you get blocked by a marine structure strictly to block your path is not fun. This player spent time and saved resources and I think he deserves a bit of fun.
Think of it like buying a car and you crash it almost immediately. Buying a new computer and having the hard drive fail within two weeks. Buying HL2 and finding out your CD-key is in use. Point is that when a player goes Onos they did it because they expected to have fun and they saved up for it.
Fighting a good battle and getting blocked by a building when you could have easily have lived is lame. Does it get the job done? Yeah it does if you are a rine, but if real sports were viewed the same way low blows would be legal in boxing, sand paper would be legal in baseball, steroids would be legal in all sports. Is it fun to box against someone who hits you with a nut shot? or bat against a pitcher using sand paper? It certainly is not and that's why such things are illegal in those sports.
That's what's great about computer games. You can change them so that it is impossible for someone to use such "lame" tactics.
There should be some answer to this in the upcoming patch I would hope as I really don't think that Marine buildings were ment to be used as such. Just like how pitchers weren't ment to throw curve balls with a scuffed up baseball. If one of the purposes of the CC were to block an Onos I would expect "and can block enemy aliens from passing/escaping" to be added to the cl_autohelp command.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
a seige base still requires time and alot of res to build, and the marines building it have a high risk of being attacked
it uses res
it uses time
it wastes space
it helps
Who cares if its not being used for what it was intented to do so. I sure hell don't. IT WORKS. Same for bunnyhoppers. same for the old OC on IP trick. Same for elecing hives. Same for blocking onos with massive unbuild turrets. (I did once)
Same for dumping entire wols out. IT WORKS.
If you are willing to take the time, effort and res. Let it be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure about the recycling parameters, but i Do know that its either 100% or 80%. So putting that chair down and then recycling would cost you at most 4 res after all was said and done. It doesn't take time at all, it doesn't waste space (any space it blocks is considered well used space) and the only downside to it is that you need 20 res to place it. That means in the end at most a 4 res endevour killed off a 50/75 res investment. Thats totally fair.
Bunny hopping was left in <i>intentionally</i> for khaara. Electrifying hives is a viable strategy because it requires a large res investment, and you need marines to build the tfs for it to work.
The fact is that CC blocking (or any structure blocking for that matter):
-> Doesn't cost alot : 0 or 20% of the original cost.
-> Effective even when the structure is not built.
-> Effective to the point where its use can cost the opposing team upwards of 50 res with virtually no loss to the other side.
Of course, all this meaning less if Flayra, as noted in Rapier7's post, really did approve of it. (Can anyone confirm this?).
The only real remedy to this I can think of is, as suggested earlier, to let anything walk through the structure (noclip) until it is built. This leads to its own problems, though, such as things getting inside the building when it becomes built.
It's a matter of Risk(Cost, Difficulty, etc) vs. Reward. Is the reward high? Yeah, I'd say it is. You block an Onos for at least a couple seconds and he dies. That's a lot of time and res down the drain for aliens. But is the risk high enough to justify the reward? Most definitely not. First of all, fail or succeed, this "strategy" costs only a couple res. Recycle the unbuilt CC for the majority of its price and the CC block only cost you a couple res. On top of that, it's not difficult at all; just as long as the comm is watching the battle and the Onos has to escape through a hallway, all he has to do is put a CC down in the middle and the Onos is screwed. He can even drop it ahead of time if he's not good enough to time it properly, and it will still cost the Onos precious seconds even if he jumps over it(or block the hallway off completely if the ceiling is low). Almost no skill necessary.
In other words, what we have here is a tactic with extremely high rewards at little to no risk. Whether or not it's an exploit is irrelevant; it's obviously not balanced, much less fun. It needs to be removed. The ideal solution is to make unbuilt structures intangible so they can't block anything. Alternately they could start at significantly lower HP values(one gore from an Onos) and scale up faster, which also fixes the majority of structure-related exploits(OC distracting, dropping early game nodes to block gorges).
maybe ,ake it so you couldnt recycle unbuilt structures?
and I used to think a properly armed/upgraded squad of marines that followed orders was a viable way to deal with higher lifeforms. If they aren't upgraded enough/have proper weaponry then either the alien team did a good job of choking them (part of a strategy game), the commander sucked, or the marines sucked.
and if a fade/onos is on his 3rd hit and run attack and the commander is sitting right there it's pretty easy to see him run in, click your CC button, watch him gore, see him turn around, and click. I wouldn't exactly give a commander kudos for that. You are right though ... he did do something about the higher lifeform instead of sitting around.
I think the arguement is more if it's an honorable strategy not if it's practical/useful (which everyone knows it is). Of course it's pretty practical to throw sand in the eyes of a man whom you are about to box since your chances of winning are significantly higher. It is not exactly smiled upon though.
It's a matter of Risk(Cost, Difficulty, etc) vs. Reward. Is the reward high? Yeah, I'd say it is. You block an Onos for at least a couple seconds and he dies. That's a lot of time and res down the drain for aliens. But is the risk high enough to justify the reward? Most definitely not. First of all, fail or succeed, this "strategy" costs only a couple res. Recycle the unbuilt CC for the majority of its price and the CC block only cost you a couple res. On top of that, it's not difficult at all; just as long as the comm is watching the battle and the Onos has to escape through a hallway, all he has to do is put a CC down in the middle and the Onos is screwed. He can even drop it ahead of time if he's not good enough to time it properly, and it will still cost the Onos precious seconds even if he jumps over it(or block the hallway off completely if the ceiling is low). Almost no skill necessary.
In other words, <b>what we have here is a tactic with extremely high rewards at little to no risk. Whether or not it's an exploit is irrelevant; it's obviously not balanced, much less fun. It needs to be removed.</b> The ideal solution is to make unbuilt structures intangible so they can't block anything. Alternately they could start at significantly lower HP values(one gore from an Onos) and scale up faster, which also fixes the majority of structure-related exploits(OC distracting, dropping early game nodes to block gorges).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This entire post has been repeated for emphasis, with further emphasis on the bold sentence. Well said, Zek.
With practice, you can be extremely quick with the hotkeys. I can put down a res node within seconds of the request: Spacebar, Q, A, click, and i'm done and move on to other things. Honestly, putting down a CC isn't going to be that game breaker where that medpack meant the difference between a dead hive and a live hive.
Flayra said it himself that CC blocking is legal.
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Anyone care to supply a quote for this?
Flayra said it himself that CC blocking is legal.
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Anyone care to supply a quote for this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IIRC, The most he said in regards to that is "It's their res", or words to that effect. In other words, indifference as opposed to outright embracement.
Though it was in regards to clan games, and also a long while back. (Didn't recycling give a lot less res back many builds ago?)