I was recently discussing NS with a friend (sn yoyo), and he told me that by his experience bile bomb damages only buildings not marines. I can't find anything to confirm or deny this in the manual or on the forum search.... comments?
yes 200 damage, BILE bomb can also be used to scare the newbish marines away too!! and can act as a temporay cover. (when the bilebomb exlpodes, it acts like a 1 second smoke grenade giving the skulks some time to attack!.
there has always been a push since v2 to make Bb damage both structures nad marine armour. No word on if it will come into effect in some later beta, but one can always hope.
one server i played on had BB damage rine armour, but that might have been a mod, im not too sure. but bile is acidic right? why shouldnt it hurt rines? if only for like 10 hp damage or less
Ok, you vomit over a bagel and it'll break down a bit, you vomit over plate steel and you barely dent it. Structures and rines could be made out of very different materials.
Secondly, from a game point of view, gorges are a builder class, they're not meant to wade in using the insane splash area of bile bomb to wipe out every marine in gobbing distance. Gorges are mobile seiges, and while they're biling the structures the TRUE combat classes are meant to be kicking marine posterior.
It'd be pretty poor if gorges could build AND heal AND spit AND bile bomb every bit of armour away from anything.
I think Bile bomb is good as is. Bile bombing in NS mode means there's usually a phase gate nearby which is most likely the first thing getting biled. This means that when Marines phase in to protect the base they have no armor and get raped faster than they normally would.
<!--QuoteBegin-j3st+Aug 2 2004, 09:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (j3st @ Aug 2 2004, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yep and dealing 200 damage it would be the ultimate counter to the ha train <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh it was. It used to be gorges + skulks = dead heavy train, since BB does splash damage. Now its and onos stomping for the skulks and fades while the lerks umbra and poor gorges are left out in the dust.
"HAHAHA EAT THIS MARINES! DEATH! DECAY" "Hey guys, I just finished laming up sub-sector! Yay!" "Yeah yeah, shut it gorgie, we're trying to have fun" "But...But.." "Look, if <i>you</i> want to have fun, don't res**** and build vital stuff for the team, okay? Wait...the hive still isn't up, what're you doing, man?!" "I want to assault the marine base because thats all I can really do!" "Yeah, and give them free res? Just leave it to us. You can sit in the hive room unnessicarily damaging and healing the hive so you can <i>feel</i> like you're being useful"
well lets see..if you bile bomb a marine and he doesn't drop dead after 128971298317 shots then we can assume that it doesn't do crap damage to the marine right...?
i think its best if you wait for all the marines to pg then go forward and bilebomb the pg and youll have some time killing the cc or armory or whatever you find... a skulk is good to have with you if the comm jumps out and think he can kill you
The 200 damage looks really outrageous, but don't get carried away. Don't forget, the devs have balanced the game around that, so Marine structures have tons of health. Sure, it's almost thrice as damaging as Bite, but at the end of the day, that isn't a big deal. It's good, but should be used with caution.
Oh, and <!--QuoteBegin-mynightmare+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mynightmare)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you could also head straight into the marine base and bile bomb the cc or armory just ask the lerk for a ride<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> don't use Lerklift.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Aug 1 2004, 08:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Aug 1 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, you vomit over a bagel and it'll break down a bit, you vomit over plate steel and you barely dent it. Structures and rines could be made out of very different materials.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... marine structures are probably made from steel........... and heavy armor is probably made of steel............ hmmmm........
The gorgie will own you all!!!!!!!! <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cartman2b^+Aug 15 2004, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cartman2b^ @ Aug 15 2004, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe it could only affect Heavy Armour.. doing 20 armour damage per bile. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> how incredibly... useless. 50 per bile at least.
it's not the realism that counts. even if marine armor and the structures are made of EXACTLY the same material, if it doesn't balance the game well, bile will have no effect on marine armor and have full effect on structures.
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Aug 15 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Aug 15 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cartman2b^+Aug 15 2004, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cartman2b^ @ Aug 15 2004, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe it could only affect Heavy Armour.. doing 20 armour damage per bile. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> how incredibly... useless. 50 per bile at least. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That'll lose all the HA's armour in 6/8 seconds flat.. unless they were welded all the time.
I used to like the idea, but I think it would be too hard to balance. Heavy Armour is somewhat overpowered right now, I agree, but any hard counter to it would have to be very well thought out before it could become viable.
<!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz+Aug 16 2004, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Aug 16 2004, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I used to like the idea, but I think it would be too hard to balance. Heavy Armour is somewhat overpowered right now, I agree, but any hard counter to it would have to be very well thought out before it could become viable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Geee... Marines sure have enough hard counters (MT, Scans, Armor 1), why not give aliens SOME?
And is that gorge bilebombing you for 50 armor a hit? I'd draw you a little popup childrens book, but this list of instructions should do the same job.
1.) locate gorge
2.) hold cursor over gorge
3.) Hold left mouse button down for .5 seconds
4.) If step 2 fails... walk away a few steps and weld, then move on.
I agree that the Aliens need some counter to Heavy Armour. <!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz @ Aug 16 2004+ 04:02AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Aug 16 2004 @ 04:02AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I used to like the idea, but I think it would be too hard to balance. <b>Heavy Armour is somewhat overpowered right now, I agree</b>, but any hard counter to it would have to be very well thought out before it could become viable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What I'm saying is, I'm not sure if that's it. Or if it is, that it shouldn't be quite so powerful.
If the Gorges Bilebombing the Heavy Armour Marines are smart, they can survive for longer than you seem to think. Don't forget that the only inherent bonus of Heavy Armour, apart from its increased armour capacity, is that its damage reduction from armour is slightly higher than it is for other Marines. With any more than one, it would be quite possible for a group of Gorges to completely waste the armour of the same number of Heavy Armour Marines, even if those Marines were competent. And with all the armour gone, Heavy Armour is easier to take down than Light, because of the movement speed reduction, meaning that even if the Gorges did die, the Skulks could easily clean up after them. And let's not forget that a Gorge is cheaper than a suit of Heavy Armour.
Heavy armors are hardly imbalanced. You get this impression because marines use them on low level pubs where Heavies are usually good game. The balancing agent? Teamwork!
Onos + fade + skulks + umbra are hard enough to handle, now you want them being bilebombed for 50 armor a splash? They'll be utterly raped. They spend more time welding eachother than shooting, or if they don't do that, its 2 skulk bites a marine and you have a dead heavy train.
The marine team having a heavy train doesn't mean gg. It means that you have to come together as a team to fight them off. That lone fade won't do jack anymore. That onos going around without support just doesn't cut it. And frankly, umbra will just about kill ANY heavy train. 50% of bullets blocked? Might as well take half your clip and fire it at the ground before firing at the onos to get a similar effect.
The 2-hive lerk is an excellent support unit that is horribly underused during a heavy train.
Comments
-Aes-
Clearly states damage to structures only.
Secondly, from a game point of view, gorges are a builder class, they're not meant to wade in using the insane splash area of bile bomb to wipe out every marine in gobbing distance. Gorges are mobile seiges, and while they're biling the structures the TRUE combat classes are meant to be kicking marine posterior.
It'd be pretty poor if gorges could build AND heal AND spit AND bile bomb every bit of armour away from anything.
Besides, drop 2 OC and bunnyhop focus spit, ftw.
oh it was. It used to be gorges + skulks = dead heavy train, since BB does splash damage. Now its and onos stomping for the skulks and fades while the lerks umbra and poor gorges are left out in the dust.
"HAHAHA EAT THIS MARINES! DEATH! DECAY"
"Hey guys, I just finished laming up sub-sector! Yay!"
"Yeah yeah, shut it gorgie, we're trying to have fun"
"But...But.."
"Look, if <i>you</i> want to have fun, don't res**** and build vital stuff for the team, okay? Wait...the hive still isn't up, what're you doing, man?!"
"I want to assault the marine base because thats all I can really do!"
"Yeah, and give them free res? Just leave it to us. You can sit in the hive room unnessicarily damaging and healing the hive so you can <i>feel</i> like you're being useful"
Still, these days I just evolve to something else and pass the time by being a lerk in a vent at MS and sporing/chuckling till my eyes bleed.
just ask the lerk for a ride
Only problem is bilebomb alone won't do the job fast enough.
Oh, and
<!--QuoteBegin-mynightmare+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mynightmare)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you could also head straight into the marine base and bile bomb the cc or armory
just ask the lerk for a ride<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't use Lerklift.
Well...
marine structures are probably made from steel...........
and heavy armor is probably made of steel............
hmmmm........
The gorgie will own you all!!!!!!!! <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As Hybridclaw said, the marine armour material and the structure unit material are pretty much the same.
If a bile bomb was to bile on some heavies while being attacked by fades and what not, would be pretty damn stategical.
If no ones made an I&S post about this, gogogogo.
Maybe it could only affect Heavy Armour.. doing 20 armour damage per bile.
how incredibly... useless. 50 per bile at least.
how incredibly... useless. 50 per bile at least. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Howabout no damage at all <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
it's not the realism that counts. even if marine armor and the structures are made of EXACTLY the same material, if it doesn't balance the game well, bile will have no effect on marine armor and have full effect on structures.
how incredibly... useless. 50 per bile at least. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That'll lose all the HA's armour in 6/8 seconds flat.. unless they were welded all the time.
If your heavy train gets raped because you can't kill or avoid (if he's in a vent) a gorge bilebombing you.....eesh
Geee... Marines sure have enough hard counters (MT, Scans, Armor 1), why not give aliens SOME?
And is that gorge bilebombing you for 50 armor a hit? I'd draw you a little popup childrens book, but this list of instructions should do the same job.
1.) locate gorge
2.) hold cursor over gorge
3.) Hold left mouse button down for .5 seconds
4.) If step 2 fails... walk away a few steps and weld, then move on.
I agree that the Aliens need some counter to Heavy Armour.
<!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz @ Aug 16 2004+ 04:02AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Aug 16 2004 @ 04:02AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I used to like the idea, but I think it would be too hard to balance. <b>Heavy Armour is somewhat overpowered right now, I agree</b>, but any hard counter to it would have to be very well thought out before it could become viable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is, I'm not sure if that's it. Or if it is, that it shouldn't be quite so powerful.
If the Gorges Bilebombing the Heavy Armour Marines are smart, they can survive for longer than you seem to think. Don't forget that the only inherent bonus of Heavy Armour, apart from its increased armour capacity, is that its damage reduction from armour is slightly higher than it is for other Marines. With any more than one, it would be quite possible for a group of Gorges to completely waste the armour of the same number of Heavy Armour Marines, even if those Marines were competent. And with all the armour gone, Heavy Armour is easier to take down than Light, because of the movement speed reduction, meaning that even if the Gorges did die, the Skulks could easily clean up after them. And let's not forget that a Gorge is cheaper than a suit of Heavy Armour.
Onos + fade + skulks + umbra are hard enough to handle, now you want them being bilebombed for 50 armor a splash? They'll be utterly raped. They spend more time welding eachother than shooting, or if they don't do that, its 2 skulk bites a marine and you have a dead heavy train.
The marine team having a heavy train doesn't mean gg. It means that you have to come together as a team to fight them off. That lone fade won't do jack anymore. That onos going around without support just doesn't cut it. And frankly, umbra will just about kill ANY heavy train. 50% of bullets blocked? Might as well take half your clip and fire it at the ground before firing at the onos to get a similar effect.
The 2-hive lerk is an excellent support unit that is horribly underused during a heavy train.