The only thing I don't like about co_ is how it's not an addon. When NS goes into the my games list we are going to have lots of cs players say "hey lets make a co_ server". Numbers will start to tilt in co_'s favor.
ok combat spreads the gap between cs and normal ns game modes. All those cs nubs who play combat will eventually get curious and play ns maps after a while they will like that game mode and now you have a seasoned NS player.
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the way ns_missilecommand and the like were welcomed was any indication it should be obvious that almost no one who <i><b>matters</b></i> likes those kind of maps and the time developing Combat could have been better spent improving the game mode that was the reason everyone started playing anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And who exactly matters? people with high post counts? respected individuals? devs? clans? or that guy who's just downloaded ns, get's yelled at cause he dosnt know what a gorge is supposed to do, and delete's his nsp folder.
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If Combat was just a diversion like it was supposed to be I'd be all for it...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you make 2 assumptions here. firstly, that it is meant to be a diversion. flayra clearly stated the whole gateway to classic thing others pointed out above. secondly you made the assumption anyone actually cares if your all for it. your just 1 guy. sure, your opinions are reflected by alot of people. but you will all fall in line when the massive wave of newbies arrives on our doorstep when ns get's on the my games list.
<!--QuoteBegin-R A C+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (R A C)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> fully agree. Everytime I see onne of the many FULL 20+ player servers, I think to myself: why God WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!? CO is for when there aren't enough players for a balanced NS game. (less than six per side) I say servers should auto-switch to a NS map as soon as a 12th player joins.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and who exactly are you to make this decision for everyone?
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anyone on the team listened to me and actually builds a limit into the game it will be -fixing- Combat since it's supposed to be for a small amount of players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who ever said it was meant for a small amount of players?
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I might even get bored enough one day and actually try a Combat map, but I think the dev team should now ignore Combat and treat it like the add-on diversion it really is.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You hav'nt even played a damned co_ map and you debunk it sir? havnt you ever heard of the phrase "dont judge a book by its cover"?
and who are you to tell the devs what to do?
secondly.
I love classic. i find it the best adrenaline rush around. nothing like double sieging on public servers. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CO is great. i love natural selection with a passion. anyone who know's me and the servers i play on will tell you in detail how passionate and energetic i can be during an epic game, or even a tense combat map. to be honest. combat is a great way of practicing, and is also a great way to relax. Veterans of NS are not so keen to latch onto CO because it's new(not all, but some). its like the tactical shield in counter strike. banned on alot of servers cause of "lameness"
every new aspect that changes a game is met with critism, and resentment. its only human to be afraid of the new and unknown. but i assure you, combat can be great fun. it may be unbalanced in some ways, but give it the chance it deserves. And what's so wrong with a large combat server?
<!--QuoteBegin-Big Fat Duck+Jul 23 2004, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Big Fat Duck @ Jul 23 2004, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> do you want more people to play cs or not? do you want ns to be as popular as cs? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately, the popularity of CS was its biggest downfall. Or so it seems to me.
But this is going far off-topic, so either pm me or start a new thread (in OT) if you want to discuss it further.
Maybe it's the fact that I only play once in a while, but Combat is still fun to play. Trying all the new plugins/features like NSA Armslab's rocket launcher and marines vs. marine was a blast. Sure, it's not that balanced (JP HMG heaven), yet it's damn fun.
What matters is how most players view combat - NOT whatever Flayra intended Combat to be back. Can you imagine how many players would be disappointed if Combat was removed? Or even if there's an official announcement about suspending development on Combat? Once it's in the game and once it's popular, it would be a HUGE MISTAKE to remove it.
Removing Combat is like saying "let's remove bhop because it was never intended." (Though I still dislike bhop <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
I have to resort to clanmatches because the level of teamplay on public servers in general is so sickening it makes you want to spit. co_missilecommand and other co-fall maps totally kick **** so ner <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I found MvM to be quite entertaining in the beginning, but after playing it for a little while it got old quick. I believe combat was a great addition to the game, as NS_ is boring with a low amount of players. Combat can be quite fun when you have just played a long game of NS_, and don't feel like starting another one immediately.
P.S. Put Beta 1 spawn-system back into combat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Todd: I have no idea why you think you need to know who 'matters' in order to understand my post, but whatever, you're way off. I definitely don't care how high peoples post counts are... I've been playing NS since day one and by the time I signed up for the forums I was 12000 something and since then I haven't even made over 100 posts. I HATE clans, if it were up to me I would disband them all so obviously it's not that. If I had to say what makes someone matter to me on this forum it would be that they can spell correctly and have decent grammar in addition to some intelligent posts. Some guy just left because someone flamed his stupid idea. He does not matter.
Also, if we followed your logic no one would post on these forums including you because you're only one person and I don't care what you think. You also obviously need to do some reading because it was -supposed- to be a diversion and now they're trying to placate the players by saying it's a tool for bug testing and helps new players learn the game. While there is some truth in it, it was first a foremost a diversion. It was also clearly stated that Combat games were meant to be small for when there weren't enough people to play a REAL game of NS. We won't all fall in line when new players start, if they start to bog down the game I, along with many others I'm sure, will act like such **** that they'll be chased away just like so many others.
I, unlike a lot of people, actually read the goddamn manual and I tried (and try) to piece together as much of the gameplay as I can before I actually play. I wasn't a nub when I started playing NS, I had hours of LAN play under my belt and I kept to myself as a skulk and picked up on what everyones strategy was in my first game. I know exactly what Combat's about and I don't like it at all. I'm not saying it should be removed, just not focused on as much as it is... let's worry about the real NS.
Anyway, to address the last part of your post as mentioned above Combat is ALL about small games, not 20+ player all-Combat rotation CS clones. People don't hate Combat because it's new, trust me, they hate it because it's a stupid idea. R A C has every right to make that decision because even though you think you're pretty smart by saying one person's opinion doesn't matter, a bunch of individuals with that opinion will get something changed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dictionary+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dictionary)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->game - activity engaged in for amusement<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People play combat for mainly one reason, it amuses them. That's the point of NS, to amuse you. Combat amuses people so NS accomplishes its goal there. Classic amuses you so NS also acclompishes its goal there. It's a win-win scenario!
Another example: I hate onions. Should onions then be removed off the face of the planet because I don't like them? No! Plenty of people like them. I don't like onions so I won't eat them, but I won't go bitching at other people just because they do like onions. See what I'm saying?
P.S. I just watched Shrek again, I had to use an onion analogy.
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Edit: My response was directed toward Nightfire, not Maveric.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well allow me to respond in kind to your well considered, unbiased and objective critique.<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Congratulations, you just stumbled through this thread without reading any of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Mistake 1. I read all of what you had to say and furthermore, I have read all of the following thread since and have not changed my opinion. Allow me to illuminate. <!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I also said 'almost no one who matters' which means most people that like Combat don't matter but a few respectable people do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think Todd1000 said this already, <!--QuoteBegin-todd1000+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (todd1000)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And who exactly matters?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->After some dancing you finally responded: <!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> … can spell correctly and have decent grammar in addition to some intelligent posts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I would say the content of your posts differ from this comment, but I digress. I will come back to this point. <!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some guy just left because someone flamed his stupid idea. He does not matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone had feelings? Gee, I enter point one for evidence your honour.<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Combat adaptations of the CS maps I listed earlier are -REAL- and are featured on servers with more than 20 people with all slots filled. Most of the people that like Combat only play NS because of Combat and they play CS conversions like those.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You make some, what I would call erroneous, assumptions here. <ol type='1'>
</li><li> That we don’t believe in the existence of these maps. I’ve seen them as I’m sure everyone else has.
</li><li> That is it wrong so many people play them. People enjoy it so leave them be but I don’t believe that is your issue here. I enter point A for evidence your honour.
</li><li> That the majority of people that like combat, only play Natural Selection because of combat. I think that is a big and erroneous assumption. </li></ol> Allow me to list some quotes to what I think your real issue is. <ul>
</li><li> "<i>Combat is completely unnecessary</i>"
</li><li> "<i>Theres no excuse for seeing a 20+ player server with an all-Combat map rotation.</i>"
</li><li> "<i>If the way ns_missilecommand and the like were welcomed</i>"
</li><li> "<i>If Combat was just a diversion like it was supposed to be I'd be all for it...</i>"
</li><li> "<i>Combat is getting way too much attention from players and the dev team.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>If Combat was meant to … compete with NS for players</i>"
</li><li>"<i>whether it works if the players vote for a Combat map when there are too many players.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>and actually builds a limit into the game it will be -fixing- Combat </i>"
</li><li>"<i>even though I wouldn't mind if it was taken out completely.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>but I think the dev team should now ignore Combat and treat it like the add-on diversion it really is.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>because it was -supposed- to be a diversion</i>" </li></ul> I could go on but I believe my point is made. Just to ensure it isn’t lost on Arawn, I’ll explain it. <u><b>You</b></u> don’t like combat! <u><b>You</b></u> see combat as taking players away from games of NS:Classic that <u><b>you</b></u> could be playing. <u><b>You</b></u> see NS:Combat as “stealing” development time from NS:Classic, which because <u><b>you</b></u> enjoy it, should be assigned more people/time to work on it. <u><b>You</b></u> presume to know the minds of the developers, that those working on NS:Combat would ever work on NS:Classic or if they work NS:Combat that they would want to work on NS:Classic. Maybe they work on NS:Combat for a break? <u><b>You</b></u> presume to know what is best for the gaming community. That is, because <u><b>you</b></u> dislike combat, everyone else should too. Just because people enjoy combat so much and it is a bigger success than intended, <u><b>you</b></u> believe it should be nerfed so <u><b>you</b></u> can get more people to play NS:Classic. Guess what? Maybe some of us don’t want to play NS:Classic? <u><b>You</b></u> however presume to know what is best for us all and tell us we should be playing NS:Classic if there is enough people. If we don’t, in your esteemed opinion we should be forced to. To come back to that earlier point, I deduce that those opinions that matter to <u><b>you</b></u> are those that agree with <u><b>your</b></u> opinion. That is NS:Combat should be nerfed so more people find it less enjoyable and play more NS:Classic. (Giving <u><b>you</b></u> more games of NS:Classic)
I restate again. <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> If you don’t like NS:Combat, don’t play it! Just don’t put down those that do or insist that it be crippled so others won’t. If you think I am some random ... <!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->because you're only one person and I don't care what you think.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As you said there are alot of people who play NS:Combat. <!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you think you're pretty smart by saying one person's opinion doesn't matter, a bunch of individuals with that opinion will get something changed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And maybe they can get it kept the same? As Todd1000 said, <!--QuoteBegin-todd1000+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (todd1000)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and who exactly are you to make this decision for everyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well?
Haha well said Nightfire <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Combat has been <b>great</b> for introducing people into ns, but the thing is the "co nubs" are invading all the NS servers flooding them with mainly marine players that have absolutely no idea whatsoever to play classic... it is <b>appalling.</b>
for example, i just played a game (i was comm) with a bunch of "co nubs" i had ONE marine that was willing to go to his waypoint. using this single marine i managed to put up half of the res points for a short while..
noone else knew the map.
by about the 15 minute mark i had everything fully upgraded. it didnt make a difference, i had saved up about 200 res and suited up all my marines with HA etc.
it takes about 2 minutes for them to get to reception (was playing on ns_hera) where they opened they opened the door, then some idiot closed the door and trapped everyone but himself on the other side. takes a further minute or two for him to figure out how to weld the door.
at about the 20 minute mark archiving went down by the hands of 3 marines, the rest had phased back to spawn for something and moved to double. where they got completely raped.
after capping the res nodes in archiving i get my 3 faithful marines to weld through to datacore, instead they decide to go to dbl while i spam orders and flood the chat. they continue to go to double and get swiftly taken out by the onos'.
another 3 minutes pass, i have all my marines in cargo asking for weapons and jps. i drop my trusty res marine a JP. and he actually goes to the back of dcd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i drop a phase etc, and while hes building spawn is attacked and everyone else is in double.
i beacon and drop a phase in MS, 4 ppl build the phase the rest split off in all directions. after they get the phase up, they start knifing ms res point. spawn goes down. everyone dies.
except for one marine named "NSPlayer" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> i drop him an obs. he does nothing for 30 seconds while the rest of the team tells him to "HOLD E ON IT". a skulk comes and he manages to fall off the platform :/. So i drop an obs and get out of the cc. i beacon, drop a cc. No one listens and again splits off in different directions. game over.
from what i remember of NS pre-Combat nothing like this EVER happened.
devs. i BEG YOU make it compulsory to read the manual. when NS is first started up, make the manual pop up and only let it close after x amount of time.... PLEASE PLEASE implement some way (or a better way than we have now) in which to educate players before playing NS. because games like these were never meant to happen. or so i hope. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You can't possibly make education compulsory. You will annoy the experianced players and the newbies will just say, "pffft, manuals suck," and turn off their brains.
You can however make it easier to learn, which will help for those people who play the game right off, realize that they suck, and want to fix it. The best thing to do is probably training, but that's a lot of effort and there are more pressing issues at the moment.
For now, the best you can do is tell those people that the manual rocks (at least compared to other manauls), is useful, and direct them to the official forums for strategy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->devs. i BEG YOU make it compulsory to read the manual. when NS is first started up, make the manual pop up and only let it close after x amount of time.... PLEASE PLEASE implement some way (or a better way than we have now) in which to educate players before playing NS. because games like these were never meant to happen. or so i hope.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said before, NS needs another level of autohelp (like cl_autohelp 2) which basically turns the game into a dynamic manual.
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> Your entire argument is resting on a few quotes taken from random posts by me and as such are completely out of context. Everything in your post would have people believe that I wanted Combat removed. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not one of those people who goes 'OMG combat should be taken out its so dumb, its a total disgrace' even though I wouldn't mind if it was taken out completely.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny how you managed to completely overlook that, and a lot of other things I've said that have made it clear that I'm not entirely hostile to Combat. I still maintain that you haven't read this thread... either that or I'm just not getting through to you. <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
You're right, I don't like Combat, I stated that quite clearly in probably all of my posts. I do believe that it is taking players and development time away from NS and should remain the focus of the dev team like it was supposed to be, and as someone said before my opinion is reflected by a lot of people. Exactly whose opinion are you trying to "illuminate" here pal? Those were all mine and explicitly stated in my posts.
For the last time, I'm not trying to get Combat removed, I think it should be put back in its place as an ADD-ON to the ORIGINAL NS. If the dev team wants to work on Combat good for them, they shouldn't be sacrificing classic mode to make Combat balanced though and they shouldnt spend all of their time working on it. Again, for the last goddamn time, it is not JUST my opinion that Combat should be for small games only as a diversion for when there aren't enough people to play classic; it was the original opinion of the dev team and a LOT of players. Now the dev team says Combat is for new people to learn how to play... and that you should move on to classic NS once you've become experienced. Obviously people aren't using it for either reason.
I swear, if I have to keep spelling this out for you people: <b>I DON'T WANT COMBAT REMOVED.</b> You may be right and Combat might stay the same but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't try since there are many people who do want it changed. I was being sarcastic with Todd because he basically said that no one should listen to me because I was only one person, at the moment a lot of people play regular NS, a little bit more than the people who play Combat. I'm just one person with the support of thousands that would like to see Combat meet its original criteria for play.
<span style='color:white'>Attacking a persons points is one thing - attacking their vocabulary is another.</span>
Edit: Well Nemesis a good chunk of my argument is gone but you could have waited until the whole forum saw it like Nightfire's :P Anyway, I don't see why you can't have separate rules for Combat and Classic... you can switch to Tournament mode in regular NS wouldn't it be the same thing, only a little more complicated, for Combat/NS?
We must all strive to Be Nice! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Guys, this is a totally useless thread in my opinion. It's just one side saying "I didn't want combat to be successful" and another side saying "Combat is fine as it is." This arguement is like the chicken and the egg...
Ok, take a deep breath. Now, before I say anything about the topic at hand, I just want everyone to know that just because I agree with a person's belief doesn't mean I approve of the way they presented it, and that if I disagree with a person's point of view, I do not dislike the person in anyway.
Here people are talking about their views of combat. At its heart this thread is really a back and forth between people who dislike combat saying so, and people who like it (or at least dont hate it) responding.
One of the biggest problems I am seeing here is a lack of respect of for the views of other people. Many people here are trying to pass off their opinions as facts, and others are insulting/taunting people who disagree with them.
A few things to think about before you hit the reply bbutten...
All views on ballance are opinion and nothing more. "Game ballance" is NEVER a fact unless one team is strictly better (they can do everything the other can and more) then another.
Combat is here to stay. All the work that went into it is not going to go away just because some people don't like it.
Do not blame the dev team for everything. They do not own, control or operate the servers running Natural-Selection. Server X does only Y because that is what the server owner wanted, not because that is what the dev team wanted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now on to my opinion... I don't believe classic to be marine bias, in a ballanced game the team with greater skill wins. If your view that the game is marine favored is based on that time on server X where marines won Y games in a row then perhaps it was because more skilled marine players were on the team each of those games. Remeber that NS is a TEAM game, so the loss or switching of a few players may not change the overall skill of the team enough. I should also note that teamwork is a factor of skill, marines that work together and do much more then an alien team that does not.
As for the aliens being weakened in large games due to more res being split up, this too is not a big problem thanks to a still hotly debated element of the game-Res for kills. In bigger games there is more fighting, which means more dieing, which means more rfk on both sides. As aliens, since this res is not split between the team, it is a handy source of extra income. Don't forget that on large marine games commanders have to buy many many more medkits and often have to get extra ips, while the aliens start with more and more res.
<!--QuoteBegin-Arwan+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arwan)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your entire argument is resting ...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->After a couple of seconds thought, I realise this is just flame bait. I believe I made my point in my previous argument and I’ll let it lie on that. Nothing new has been introduced here to respond to. It is all the same argument, almost the same paraphrased lines. I just don’t see why some people can’t accept that others like something en mass. It may or may not be serving its initial purpose. The developers may or may not change their minds because of that popularity. In the final analysis though, who cares? They (the people that play it) enjoy it and if NS:Combat hadn’t taken them away from Arawn’s precious NS:Classic, something else would. If the devs didn’t spend time on NS:Combat, they would have spent time on something else and not necessarily NS:Classic. For the love of god, let it rest. For the sake of Nemesis Zero I am extending a hand of truce and being nice. One thing I would like to address though: <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Attacking a persons points is one thing - attacking their vocabulary is another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Really? Where shall I send my thesis for proofing? It is on Information Security, more specifically dynamic and self learning security perimeter AI’s. Riveting stuff! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Si.Nightfire+Jul 24 2004, 10:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Si.Nightfire @ Jul 24 2004, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Really? Where shall I send my thesis for proofing? It is on Information Security, more specifically dynamic and self learning security perimeter AI’s. Riveting stuff! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? That <i>does</i> sounds interesting. (insert <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> here... good) Would you mind PMing me a copy?
Everyone knows attacking another person's grammar is just a cheap way to try and win an argument. CO is here to stay, and all we can do is hope it helps the DYING NS competative scene.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Combat won't help the clan scene at all.
Bah, people don't NEED combat to learn NS. Most of us did it just fine back in 1.0x when combat didn't exist. All combat is good for is target practice really. I remember my first game. It was 1.03 in Eclipse, and it was awesome... *sniffs* *feels nostalgia*
Heh, ok I'm done here. One last thing though -- <b><span style='color:red'>I DIDN'T WANT COMBAT REMOVED.</span></b> Almost no one has read the thread but everyone still insists on posting, even though I've made it PERFECTLY clear that I do NOT want Combat removed. You have no idea how frustrating it's been to listen to all of the people who think I want it removed; thats half the reason I'm going to stop now. <b>I know Combat is here to stay.</b> Thank you.
I understand that you don’t want combat to be removed but in all reality it seems that there’s no other choice but to remove it. It can’t be nerfed because it will make people mad.
I would like seeing the map types (co_ and ns_) and there intended player counts hard coded into the map cycle section. Make 2 sections in the mapcycle.txt one for 12 and over and another for 11 and under.
I would like to see this but i doubt that it will happen because of the shear fact of difficulty of doing it A, and B it takes the control away from the server admins... and that’s one of the things that they most likely are not willing to give up.
Other than that there really is no other way to deal with combat other than its subtraction. If any one else can come up with something that’s reasonable to do it would be good to hear.
Comments
EVOLUTION of the cs player.
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the way ns_missilecommand and the like were welcomed was any indication it should be obvious that almost no one who <i><b>matters</b></i> likes those kind of maps and the time developing Combat could have been better spent improving the game mode that was the reason everyone started playing anyway.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And who exactly matters? people with high post counts? respected individuals? devs? clans? or that guy who's just downloaded ns, get's yelled at cause he dosnt know what a gorge is supposed to do, and delete's his nsp folder.
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If Combat was just a diversion like it was supposed to be I'd be all for it...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you make 2 assumptions here. firstly, that it is meant to be a diversion. flayra clearly stated the whole gateway to classic thing others pointed out above.
secondly you made the assumption anyone actually cares if your all for it. your just 1 guy. sure, your opinions are reflected by alot of people. but you will all fall in line when the massive wave of newbies arrives on our doorstep when ns get's on the my games list.
<!--QuoteBegin-R A C+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (R A C)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> fully agree. Everytime I see onne of the many FULL 20+ player servers, I think to myself: why God WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!? CO is for when there aren't enough players for a balanced NS game. (less than six per side) I say servers should auto-switch to a NS map as soon as a 12th player joins.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and who exactly are you to make this decision for everyone?
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anyone on the team listened to me and actually builds a limit into the game it will be -fixing- Combat since it's supposed to be for a small amount of players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who ever said it was meant for a small amount of players?
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I might even get bored enough one day and actually try a Combat map, but I think the dev team should now ignore Combat and treat it like the add-on diversion it really is.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You hav'nt even played a damned co_ map and you debunk it sir? havnt you ever heard of the phrase "dont judge a book by its cover"?
and who are you to tell the devs what to do?
secondly.
I love classic. i find it the best adrenaline rush around. nothing like double sieging on public servers. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CO is great. i love natural selection with a passion. anyone who know's me and the servers i play on will tell you in detail how passionate and energetic i can be during an epic game, or even a tense combat map. to be honest. combat is a great way of practicing, and is also a great way to relax. Veterans of NS are not so keen to latch onto CO because it's new(not all, but some). its like the tactical shield in counter strike. banned on alot of servers cause of "lameness"
every new aspect that changes a game is met with critism, and resentment. its only human to be afraid of the new and unknown. but i assure you, combat can be great fun. it may be unbalanced in some ways, but give it the chance it deserves.
And what's so wrong with a large combat server?
do you want ns to be as popular as cs?
but....what do you mean?
do you want ns to be as popular as cs? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, the popularity of CS was its biggest downfall. Or so it seems to me.
But this is going far off-topic, so either pm me or start a new thread (in OT) if you want to discuss it further.
What matters is how most players view combat - NOT whatever Flayra intended Combat to be back. Can you imagine how many players would be disappointed if Combat was removed? Or even if there's an official announcement about suspending development on Combat? Once it's in the game and once it's popular, it would be a HUGE MISTAKE to remove it.
Removing Combat is like saying "let's remove bhop because it was never intended." (Though I still dislike bhop <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
P.S. Put Beta 1 spawn-system back into combat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, if we followed your logic no one would post on these forums including you because you're only one person and I don't care what you think. You also obviously need to do some reading because it was -supposed- to be a diversion and now they're trying to placate the players by saying it's a tool for bug testing and helps new players learn the game. While there is some truth in it, it was first a foremost a diversion. It was also clearly stated that Combat games were meant to be small for when there weren't enough people to play a REAL game of NS. We won't all fall in line when new players start, if they start to bog down the game I, along with many others I'm sure, will act like such **** that they'll be chased away just like so many others.
I, unlike a lot of people, actually read the goddamn manual and I tried (and try) to piece together as much of the gameplay as I can before I actually play. I wasn't a nub when I started playing NS, I had hours of LAN play under my belt and I kept to myself as a skulk and picked up on what everyones strategy was in my first game. I know exactly what Combat's about and I don't like it at all. I'm not saying it should be removed, just not focused on as much as it is... let's worry about the real NS.
Anyway, to address the last part of your post as mentioned above Combat is ALL about small games, not 20+ player all-Combat rotation CS clones. People don't hate Combat because it's new, trust me, they hate it because it's a stupid idea. R A C has every right to make that decision because even though you think you're pretty smart by saying one person's opinion doesn't matter, a bunch of individuals with that opinion will get something changed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dictionary+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dictionary)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->game - activity engaged in for amusement<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People play combat for mainly one reason, it amuses them. That's the point of NS, to amuse you. Combat amuses people so NS accomplishes its goal there. Classic amuses you so NS also acclompishes its goal there. It's a win-win scenario!
Another example: I hate onions. Should onions then be removed off the face of the planet because I don't like them? No! Plenty of people like them. I don't like onions so I won't eat them, but I won't go bitching at other people just because they do like onions. See what I'm saying?
P.S. I just watched Shrek again, I had to use an onion analogy.
<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some guy just left because someone flamed his stupid idea. He does not matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone had feelings? Gee, I enter point one for evidence your honour.<!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Combat adaptations of the CS maps I listed earlier are -REAL- and are featured on servers with more than 20 people with all slots filled. Most of the people that like Combat only play NS because of Combat and they play CS conversions like those.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You make some, what I would call erroneous, assumptions here. <ol type='1'>
</li><li> That we don’t believe in the existence of these maps. I’ve seen them as I’m sure everyone else has.
</li><li> That is it wrong so many people play them. People enjoy it so leave them be but I don’t believe that is your issue here. I enter point A for evidence your honour.
</li><li> That the majority of people that like combat, only play Natural Selection because of combat. I think that is a big and erroneous assumption.
</li></ol>
Allow me to list some quotes to what I think your real issue is. <ul>
</li><li> "<i>Combat is completely unnecessary</i>"
</li><li> "<i>Theres no excuse for seeing a 20+ player server with an all-Combat map rotation.</i>"
</li><li> "<i>If the way ns_missilecommand and the like were welcomed</i>"
</li><li> "<i>If Combat was just a diversion like it was supposed to be I'd be all for it...</i>"
</li><li> "<i>Combat is getting way too much attention from players and the dev team.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>If Combat was meant to … compete with NS for players</i>"
</li><li>"<i>whether it works if the players vote for a Combat map when there are too many players.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>and actually builds a limit into the game it will be -fixing- Combat </i>"
</li><li>"<i>even though I wouldn't mind if it was taken out completely.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>but I think the dev team should now ignore Combat and treat it like the add-on diversion it really is.</i>"
</li><li>"<i>because it was -supposed- to be a diversion</i>"
</li></ul>
I could go on but I believe my point is made. Just to ensure it isn’t lost on Arawn, I’ll explain it.
<u><b>You</b></u> don’t like combat! <u><b>You</b></u> see combat as taking players away from games of NS:Classic that <u><b>you</b></u> could be playing. <u><b>You</b></u> see NS:Combat as “stealing” development time from NS:Classic, which because <u><b>you</b></u> enjoy it, should be assigned more people/time to work on it.
<u><b>You</b></u> presume to know the minds of the developers, that those working on NS:Combat would ever work on NS:Classic or if they work NS:Combat that they would want to work on NS:Classic. Maybe they work on NS:Combat for a break?
<u><b>You</b></u> presume to know what is best for the gaming community. That is, because <u><b>you</b></u> dislike combat, everyone else should too. Just because people enjoy combat so much and it is a bigger success than intended, <u><b>you</b></u> believe it should be nerfed so <u><b>you</b></u> can get more people to play NS:Classic. Guess what? Maybe some of us don’t want to play NS:Classic? <u><b>You</b></u> however presume to know what is best for us all and tell us we should be playing NS:Classic if there is enough people. If we don’t, in your esteemed opinion we should be forced to. To come back to that earlier point, I deduce that those opinions that matter to <u><b>you</b></u> are those that agree with <u><b>your</b></u> opinion. That is NS:Combat should be nerfed so more people find it less enjoyable and play more NS:Classic. (Giving <u><b>you</b></u> more games of NS:Classic)
I restate again. <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
If you don’t like NS:Combat, don’t play it! Just don’t put down those that do or insist that it be crippled so others won’t. If you think I am some random ... <!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->because you're only one person and I don't care what you think.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As you said there are alot of people who play NS:Combat. <!--QuoteBegin-Arawn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you think you're pretty smart by saying one person's opinion doesn't matter, a bunch of individuals with that opinion will get something changed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And maybe they can get it kept the same? As Todd1000 said, <!--QuoteBegin-todd1000+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (todd1000)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and who exactly are you to make this decision for everyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well?
for example, i just played a game (i was comm) with a bunch of "co nubs" i had ONE marine that was willing to go to his waypoint. using this single marine i managed to put up half of the res points for a short while..
noone else knew the map.
by about the 15 minute mark i had everything fully upgraded. it didnt make a difference, i had saved up about 200 res and suited up all my marines with HA etc.
it takes about 2 minutes for them to get to reception (was playing on ns_hera)
where they opened they opened the door, then some idiot closed the door and trapped everyone but himself on the other side. takes a further minute or two for him to figure out how to weld the door.
at about the 20 minute mark archiving went down by the hands of 3 marines, the rest had phased back to spawn for something and moved to double. where they got completely raped.
after capping the res nodes in archiving i get my 3 faithful marines to weld through to datacore, instead they decide to go to dbl while i spam orders and flood the chat. they continue to go to double and get swiftly taken out by the onos'.
another 3 minutes pass, i have all my marines in cargo asking for weapons and jps. i drop my trusty res marine a JP. and he actually goes to the back of dcd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i drop a phase etc, and while hes building spawn is attacked and everyone else is in double.
i beacon and drop a phase in MS, 4 ppl build the phase the rest split off in all directions. after they get the phase up, they start knifing ms res point. spawn goes down. everyone dies.
except for one marine named "NSPlayer" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> i drop him an obs. he does nothing for 30 seconds while the rest of the team tells him to "HOLD E ON IT". a skulk comes and he manages to fall off the platform :/. So i drop an obs and get out of the cc. i beacon, drop a cc. No one listens and again splits off in different directions. game over.
from what i remember of NS pre-Combat nothing like this EVER happened.
devs. i BEG YOU make it compulsory to read the manual. when NS is first started up, make the manual pop up and only let it close after x amount of time....
PLEASE
PLEASE implement some way (or a better way than we have now) in which to educate players before playing NS. because games like these were never meant to happen. or so i hope. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You can however make it easier to learn, which will help for those people who play the game right off, realize that they suck, and want to fix it. The best thing to do is probably training, but that's a lot of effort and there are more pressing issues at the moment.
For now, the best you can do is tell those people that the manual rocks (at least compared to other manauls), is useful, and direct them to the official forums for strategy.
PLEASE
PLEASE implement some way (or a better way than we have now) in which to educate players before playing NS. because games like these were never meant to happen. or so i hope.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said before, NS needs another level of autohelp (like cl_autohelp 2) which basically turns the game into a dynamic manual.
Your entire argument is resting on a few quotes taken from random posts by me and as such are completely out of context. Everything in your post would have people believe that I wanted Combat removed. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not one of those people who goes 'OMG combat should be taken out its so dumb, its a total disgrace' even though I wouldn't mind if it was taken out completely.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny how you managed to completely overlook that, and a lot of other things I've said that have made it clear that I'm not entirely hostile to Combat. I still maintain that you haven't read this thread... either that or I'm just not getting through to you. <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
You're right, I don't like Combat, I stated that quite clearly in probably all of my posts. I do believe that it is taking players and development time away from NS and should remain the focus of the dev team like it was supposed to be, and as someone said before my opinion is reflected by a lot of people. Exactly whose opinion are you trying to "illuminate" here pal? Those were all mine and explicitly stated in my posts.
For the last time, I'm not trying to get Combat removed, I think it should be put back in its place as an ADD-ON to the ORIGINAL NS. If the dev team wants to work on Combat good for them, they shouldn't be sacrificing classic mode to make Combat balanced though and they shouldnt spend all of their time working on it. Again, for the last goddamn time, it is not JUST my opinion that Combat should be for small games only as a diversion for when there aren't enough people to play classic; it was the original opinion of the dev team and a LOT of players. Now the dev team says Combat is for new people to learn how to play... and that you should move on to classic NS once you've become experienced. Obviously people aren't using it for either reason.
I swear, if I have to keep spelling this out for you people: <b>I DON'T WANT COMBAT REMOVED.</b> You may be right and Combat might stay the same but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't try since there are many people who do want it changed. I was being sarcastic with Todd because he basically said that no one should listen to me because I was only one person, at the moment a lot of people play regular NS, a little bit more than the people who play Combat. I'm just one person with the support of thousands that would like to see Combat meet its original criteria for play.
<span style='color:white'>Attacking a persons points is one thing - attacking their vocabulary is another.</span>
Edit: Well Nemesis a good chunk of my argument is gone but you could have waited until the whole forum saw it like Nightfire's :P Anyway, I don't see why you can't have separate rules for Combat and Classic... you can switch to Tournament mode in regular NS wouldn't it be the same thing, only a little more complicated, for Combat/NS?
Guys, this is a totally useless thread in my opinion. It's just one side saying "I didn't want combat to be successful" and another side saying "Combat is fine as it is." This arguement is like the chicken and the egg...
Here people are talking about their views of combat. At its heart this thread is really a back and forth between people who dislike combat saying so, and people who like it (or at least dont hate it) responding.
One of the biggest problems I am seeing here is a lack of respect of for the views of other people. Many people here are trying to pass off their opinions as facts, and others are insulting/taunting people who disagree with them.
A few things to think about before you hit the reply bbutten...
All views on ballance are opinion and nothing more. "Game ballance" is NEVER a fact unless one team is strictly better (they can do everything the other can and more) then another.
Combat is here to stay. All the work that went into it is not going to go away just because some people don't like it.
Do not blame the dev team for everything. They do not own, control or operate the servers running Natural-Selection. Server X does only Y because that is what the server owner wanted, not because that is what the dev team wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now on to my opinion...
I don't believe classic to be marine bias, in a ballanced game the team with greater skill wins. If your view that the game is marine favored is based on that time on server X where marines won Y games in a row then perhaps it was because more skilled marine players were on the team each of those games. Remeber that NS is a TEAM game, so the loss or switching of a few players may not change the overall skill of the team enough. I should also note that teamwork is a factor of skill, marines that work together and do much more then an alien team that does not.
As for the aliens being weakened in large games due to more res being split up, this too is not a big problem thanks to a still hotly debated element of the game-Res for kills. In bigger games there is more fighting, which means more dieing, which means more rfk on both sides. As aliens, since this res is not split between the team, it is a handy source of extra income. Don't forget that on large marine games commanders have to buy many many more medkits and often have to get extra ips, while the aliens start with more and more res.
I just don’t see why some people can’t accept that others like something en mass. It may or may not be serving its initial purpose. The developers may or may not change their minds because of that popularity. In the final analysis though, who cares? They (the people that play it) enjoy it and if NS:Combat hadn’t taken them away from Arawn’s precious NS:Classic, something else would. If the devs didn’t spend time on NS:Combat, they would have spent time on something else and not necessarily NS:Classic.
For the love of god, let it rest. For the sake of Nemesis Zero I am extending a hand of truce and being nice.
One thing I would like to address though:
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Attacking a persons points is one thing - attacking their vocabulary is another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Really? Where shall I send my thesis for proofing? It is on Information Security, more specifically dynamic and self learning security perimeter AI’s. Riveting stuff! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Really? That <i>does</i> sounds interesting. (insert <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> here... good) Would you mind PMing me a copy?
Bah, people don't NEED combat to learn NS. Most of us did it just fine back in 1.0x when combat didn't exist. All combat is good for is target practice really. I remember my first game. It was 1.03 in Eclipse, and it was awesome... *sniffs* *feels nostalgia*
I would like seeing the map types (co_ and ns_) and there intended player counts hard coded into the map cycle section. Make 2 sections in the mapcycle.txt one for 12 and over and another for 11 and under.
I would like to see this but i doubt that it will happen because of the shear fact of difficulty of doing it A, and B it takes the control away from the server admins... and that’s one of the things that they most likely are not willing to give up.
Other than that there really is no other way to deal with combat other than its subtraction. If any one else can come up with something that’s reasonable to do it would be good to hear.