As If We Needed Any More Proof...
Arawn
Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12954Members
Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12954Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Combat</div> There are some people out there who consider the addition of Combat to be a bad idea... everyone always says it will attract 'stupid nub CS players' and is an overly simplistic game mode that is very boring to play. This is only an opinion -- one that happens to be absolutely correct. When servers with 18-22 players can run maps like co_cs_assault, co_cs_militia, and co_de_dust2 and fill all their slots in all cases it's time to start worrying. Also keep in mind that almost exactly half of the servers on Steam are running co_ maps.
Combat is completely unnecessary, even before it was conceived of people were already making stupid maps like ns_missilecommand and ns_siege005 that are exactly like Combat. If Combat is really supposed to be a distraction on servers with little or no players then can't you impose some kind of limit so that it would only be available to a small group of people like it was originally intended? Theres no excuse for seeing a 20+ player server with an all-Combat map rotation.
If the way ns_missilecommand and the like were welcomed was any indication it should be obvious that almost no one who matters likes those kind of maps and the time developing Combat could have been better spent improving the game mode that was the reason everyone started playing anyway.
Combat is completely unnecessary, even before it was conceived of people were already making stupid maps like ns_missilecommand and ns_siege005 that are exactly like Combat. If Combat is really supposed to be a distraction on servers with little or no players then can't you impose some kind of limit so that it would only be available to a small group of people like it was originally intended? Theres no excuse for seeing a 20+ player server with an all-Combat map rotation.
If the way ns_missilecommand and the like were welcomed was any indication it should be obvious that almost no one who matters likes those kind of maps and the time developing Combat could have been better spent improving the game mode that was the reason everyone started playing anyway.
Comments
I never even thought about that, we could have classic be the most balanced it ever has been without the production of combat.
But, every once in a while (like 1/9 games) I will play some combat so I can kill everyone.
But I would NEVER play on co_de_dust2 or co_cs_militia...ever. It should be in the mapping guidelines that you can't make a CS map into NS.
there is an available AMX and admin mod plugin (modns.org i think it is?)
that functions like this:
server sets combat player limit, if that limit is reached or exccedes, the server imposes a NS_ map... if the limit is not reached, the next map is a co_ map.
it has been put in the hands of the owner or server technitian to deal with those preferences... not the task of the Ns development team.
edit: IIRC there even were some balance issues in NS in like, beta 1 becuase they had balanced CO before NS and left that thing unbalanced for the beta version. Even tho they KNEW it was unbalnced. I think it was something to do with the Onos' armor values.
What I'm trying to say is combat can be fun, as can classic. Some people like combat, some people like classic, some people like both.
To each his own.
<!--QuoteBegin-R A C+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (R A C)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I say servers should auto-switch to a NS map as soon as a 12th player joins.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Delarosa+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->there is an available AMX and admin mod plugin (modns.org i think it is?)
that functions like this:
server sets combat player limit, if that limit is reached or exccedes, the server imposes a NS_ map... if the limit is not reached, the next map is a co_ map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
R A C, meet Delatosa. Delarosa, meet R A C. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I like the sound of that plugin but I don't know how many admins know about it and I'm also curious as to whether it works if the players vote for a Combat map when there are too many players. It seems to me like Combat was innocently released and the popularity it enjoys was accidental. If anyone on the team listened to me and actually builds a limit into the game it will be -fixing- Combat since it's supposed to be for a small amount of players.
when ns id broken, we can bug test, and hunt for them in combat... if they apear in combat, they will apear in ns... but since ns has building and structures to be concerned with, it is the most unstable...
combat is a simple version of the playtesting process... uses most of the ns entities and systems, while still being cut down enough a "small" turnout for a playtest can still be productive.
If Combat was restricted to an every-now-and-then kind of thing on servers that ran all NS maps except for when there aren't enough players I wouldn't be so bitter.
talk to the server owner/admins about the problems, as they control 100% how their servers play.
Classic is so heavily biased towards marines it's no fun anymore. Many players realized this and only play combat until this balance issue is solved.
Anyways most of those who cry combat should be removed would not get what they want even if combat would be removed because there would be more 20+ player ns_ servers instead of co_.
It's quite easy to make ns_ maps more popular again. Fix the res model for large servers and make aliens stronger (or decrease alien respawn times).
Regardless of weather I approve of combat or not, I find this statement highy arrogant!
It is obvious from the number of servers full of co_ players that <u>some</u> people enjoy it. So who are you to say that<ul><li>The opinions of others that don't agree with you don't matter?</li><li>Combat is "<i>completely unnecessary</i>" because you don't like it?</li></ul>People play it, let them enjoy it and leave combat alone already. It isn't going away.
Looks like those combat servers will be full-up for a long, long time then. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Total removal of combat is a bad, bad thing; it's a good LAN game, for servers which arn't powerful enough to do ns_ maps (so many entities... urgh) and for servers who've been dessolate of a good count of players for a decent NS game. NTM the fact that removing combat completely would be a huge waste of time...
The original plan was for combat to be a game of 12 or less people; a game mode for which there weren't enough players to setup a good ns_ map. The only thing keeping <i>that</i> theory together was a actual server-side option to change the map if there were more then "X" amount of players.
Unfortunetly, that server side option could be turned on and off.
Guess which possition it's in?
I play classic exclusively and I think aliens actually have a decent chance of winning (I play on a 23 player server) but it probably is tilted more in the direction of the marines. I think a slightly increased spawn rate for aliens would solve the problem completely. Last game I played we had a good comm and decent players and we locked down Mess Hall and Ventilation and lost it to 3 or 4 fades VERY early in the game. We then took Subspace and quickly lost that to 4 fades...we tried shotguns and the battle to hold Mess Hall teetered back and forth but we eventually lost. Blinking is far too quick to stop if a fade decides to leave early enough. Anyway, my point is that the alien situation isn't hopeless.
Edit: My response was directed toward Nightfire, not Maveric.
But my ns_arena map back in 1.04 was like 4*combat and had a lot of new strategy (and 1500 entities).
OMG. these matches are so freaking fun, marines vs marines pwns counter strike any day, hurray for theses maps!
What more worrying is seeing 20 player servers that play classic, now thats so pathetic! Marines got to be dumb, or com, to lose...or the alien team as excessive skills.
Ns is balanced for 6vs6...
lol 20....
My gripes with Combat are as follows:
1. It's effect on Classic. By using the same ruleset, Classic is getting shafted in the name of Combat balance. Acid rocket and web are two of the most notable abilities that have gone from excellent to sub-standard at best. Before Combat arrived, 3rd hive aliens truely were forces to be reconned with; now the 3rd hive provides an extra spawn point and a new chamber.
I believe that it is impossible to balance Combat and Classic using the same rulesets. With Combat based around killing, and Classic based around strategy and resource control, they're just too differant. Accept this and give them each their own rules.
2. It's purpose. Flayra said that Combat would train people for Classic. That is not the case. Combat teaches individualistic deathmatch-style fragging, not listening to orders, not teamwork, not resource control & management. Players come from Combat to Classic and find an entirely differant game, where the skills they have learned in Combat are virtually useless.
Combat is not serving it's purpose if it truely is ment to be a gateway to Classic NS.
And everyone has their own opinion, does it really matter if hundreds of people love Combat, and hundreds don't? It certainly doesn't even justify removing Combat. The two different rule set thingy ^^ idea sounds good though, I assume that would make it easier to balance each game without drastically effecting the other.
I hate to burst your bubble, but we were all "nubs" once. Everyone starts out to a <b>new</b> game being <b>new</b>. You where once a nub, I was once a nub, everyone was once a nub. It just takes some people more time to adjust to the game then others.
i mean, HELLOOOOO, ns cant be balanced for all number of players...
i myself prefer the 12-14 player-servers
and now lets talk about balance again <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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NS can be balanced for all numbers of players.
Not without a massive overhaul of the alien res and spawning system. Once you've got 16+ players on a server, the marines have a cake-walk (this was true even in 2.0)
as much as i dont want CO and stupid custom maps *HINTseigeHINT* there not going to go, find another server.
solved (2 in 1 day im on a roll!!)
Combat, if nothing else, has the advantage of being short, instead of spending an hour trying to be both the comm and the only marine.
It was that way for a bit, or was that only during the private testing, I dont remember. Anywho, it was for a bit that, the higher level you were, the longer it took for you to spawn. I dont remember if it took into account if you used points or not, I think it did, so if you were just a xeno skulk @ level 10, it would only take into account the points you used. Atleast I think it did, maybe it didnt, I have a terrible memory.
It was either two ways, based off the level you were, or based off how many points you have used. Either way, higher lifeforms and stronger marines took longer to spawn than a level0 skulk or marine. If only my memory didnt suck <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Personaly, I dont care for combat at all, specialy marine vs marine. I do agree it doesnt promote actual classic gameplay. Yes you get familiar with the weapons and lifeforms, but there's soo much more to classic than that. Map control, res towers, gorges building, tech trees, commanders, following orders and listening to your team. Combat is more or less just a frag fest with NS weapons.
But, whenever I play combat now, I just think of how marine's are going to lose in 15 minute's or how I'm going to go focus killed in two hit's. There's no fun in combat anymore, especially if you've outplayed it from beta 1 - 4. Combat get's my blood pumping more. Just the cheap tactic's and getting killed in one hit annoys me.