I Kept My Mouth Shut About Seige
Darkhand
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3012Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3012Members
<div class="IPBDescription">But now the patch is out</div> I just played a game against aliens on BAST (clan versus clan no n00bs) and everytime it came down to attack a hive we placed a seige and we won. The aliens couldn't stop us and we could always put down a siege.
Oh and I did I mention the seige we put next to the commanders chair? All it did was constantly fire at the resource node located on the other side of the swingy door. The aliens could never claim that node or cut us off strategically at that point. Unless of course they won the game. Cause the only way to kill that seige would have been to demonlish our whole base since there were turrets all over.
I think the resources have been slowed down a bit. But it's clearly not enough. We had enough to build 3 more seiges so even if they destroyed them all we could just kill them.
And don't give me the "destroy the turret factory" idea. Cause we always hid them all the way behind the turrets and had two factories in each room. And one or both were in a spot where you couldn't get a bile bomb angle on it.
And if you ever did manage to kill a seige we could build a new one within an instant.
I hear a few times "Extensive playtesting, no need for balancing" all this stuff. But you know what factor you guys didn't take into consideration? You might suck at FPS games and you might not think of plenty of cunning ways to abuse seemingly balanced weapons or buildables.
If you want to stand by the "Seige turrets are fine" and or "Resources are balanced" argument then so be it. But I want someone to tell me a working counter-strategy against seige turrets.
And if I don't believe you I'll challenge you all personally to a Marines Versus Aliens match. Dev team can be the Aliens and I'll get the clan I'm in to play the Marines. And feel free to make a demo of the game to prove your point.
Oh and I did I mention the seige we put next to the commanders chair? All it did was constantly fire at the resource node located on the other side of the swingy door. The aliens could never claim that node or cut us off strategically at that point. Unless of course they won the game. Cause the only way to kill that seige would have been to demonlish our whole base since there were turrets all over.
I think the resources have been slowed down a bit. But it's clearly not enough. We had enough to build 3 more seiges so even if they destroyed them all we could just kill them.
And don't give me the "destroy the turret factory" idea. Cause we always hid them all the way behind the turrets and had two factories in each room. And one or both were in a spot where you couldn't get a bile bomb angle on it.
And if you ever did manage to kill a seige we could build a new one within an instant.
I hear a few times "Extensive playtesting, no need for balancing" all this stuff. But you know what factor you guys didn't take into consideration? You might suck at FPS games and you might not think of plenty of cunning ways to abuse seemingly balanced weapons or buildables.
If you want to stand by the "Seige turrets are fine" and or "Resources are balanced" argument then so be it. But I want someone to tell me a working counter-strategy against seige turrets.
And if I don't believe you I'll challenge you all personally to a Marines Versus Aliens match. Dev team can be the Aliens and I'll get the clan I'm in to play the Marines. And feel free to make a demo of the game to prove your point.
Comments
And what about the Seige next to the command chair at bast? Did I let them put that there? or is it a freebie?
hehe.. I didnt say we could beat the dev team.. i said we havent lost as that team.
hehe.. though i agree that would be fun!
The revolving doors on bast are right at the spawn. Adjacent to the revolving doors is a resource node. Put up a siege turret at base and that is always yours, or a null node.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=9205' target='_blank'>1.01 Makes Being A Commander Difficult Nowadays..</a>
this guy is saying he can't expand for a minute without dying. You should play with him, he's got the good alien players. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, no we aren't flattering ourself. We don't claim to be good. Dark didnt even say that. He just challenged a match. Personally i don't know if we would win but i think it would be a fun match regardless.
Although seige turrets do probably not cost enough for their level of firepower. Like he said we had enough cash for 3 or 4 of them.
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... Wow. I want that marine team then.
Wow, congratulations, you're the first team of marines to actually do that.
The 2nd match, we tried the same thing, except it wasn't working.
We put up a ROW of siege's, but still nothing. Finally, I got some heavy armor, and kept my lmg for mobility, and ran over there to see what was going on.
DEFENSE CHAMBERS EVERYWHERE.
One of the gorge's set up a NASTY layer of offense chambers at the airlock, and defense chambers. There were enough that it operated completely automatically, no gorge intervention was needed, and even heavy armor/gren couldn't get through that mess.
That dang gorge did that to other rooms too, but we got there soon enough that we could eventually get through.
Both sides of the the game were just random players, we only won because our commander was really really good, and gave up on that engine room/airlock mess by setting up defense and going around to the other side.
seriously though, stop nit-picking
Yeah but turret demolition takes time. And since we had a phase gate at each base the second anything came under attack we warped there. And then with our firepower on top of the turrets that were left they would die.
And then it would take them forever to save up again for another combo like that. And in the mean time us and our seige turrets would continually pound their hides into oblivion.
My thoughts:
Perhaps give the aliens a means to "jam" siege cannons from being able to lock on and kill them. Perhaps sensory chambers or something less reliant on how many hives they have.
Perhaps give the aliens an equivilent weapon. You siege them, they siege you. The main reason I like this is it gives aliens gridlocked in one hive against marine turrets a way out other than changing umbra to weapon #2. It works to turn the game around for marines, it can work for aliens.
Perhaps make the siege cannon so weak it drops with a single chomp. Fire a few spikes from across the room with your Lerk and that siege cannon is temporarily off your back.
you just have to work for it and try to be cunning. With the patch right now, i'd say there is a good chance to beat almost any hinderance if you pluck at it the right way. Killing the turrets factories at a distance is pretty easy if you can get an angle on it. def towers+gorger spraying heal can also help a fade or skulk melee a tower to deatht oo.
just be resourceful.
its possible, you just have to have a good tactic
I don't remember the name of the map but we had defence chambers placed at strategical points were we could heal our teammates through the walls so they could stay on the battlefield. The map was balanced and we possesed about has much ressources and territory as the marines. They had heavy weaponry and heavy armor, but we had fades.
At some point, we really dominated them, and they were pushed back to their initial outpost. The marine commander simply put a siege turret inside his base and it was shooting through like 3 walls! We had buildings that were being blown to **obscenity** everywhere. I dunno if the siege turret is suppose to shoot through more then 2 walls thick, but that's just weird...
Darkhand is making us sound like God's or something
Look, I have yet to see the Aliens lose on a patched server. Even in play testing, when I had the privledge to play with Silver.Fox and Grendel in game, the aliens just kept winning. So I had arranged this scrim for our clan right, and then boom, the patch releases. So the other clan realises and accepts the same as us we feel the Marine's got the shaft.
So I don't know about my clan mates, but I went into this match picturing a loss, hell for the first 45 minutes I kept thinking we were dead.
It did not go as clean cut as Darkhand says. We were all busting our **obscenity** to get anything done. Hell I thought it was all over when they got 2 fades with Bilebomb up in that mother effing vent that goes right into spawn, since we had welded it, only to have it get bitten back ground, SO MUCH FUN STUFF!
But yea man, after the first 45 minutes, we had managed to get that double nozzle place with the water tunnel that drips, with phase gates for instant transportation, got a seige in that little dip down tunnel with the shoot away flooring panel by the Fire looking Engine Room, I mean it wasn't some easy win, I saw it as us busting our **obscenity**. I mean as we managed to capture Feedwater, we put up shop there two, got another phase gate.
Anyway, it was a **obscenity** blast, and we even gave the other team some of our clan mates to fill their ranks since not all their people showed.
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Sif use PA pic
Tonight I was playing a match where we had our gorge at the 2nd hive for quite a while, protected by skulks travelling through to get to the Marine start point. After about 20 minutes we asked him what the hell he was doing since the Hive hadn't even started yet. He replied something to the effect that the Marines would be there any minute so there was no point in starting the Hive.
Yes, the Marines had a turret farm started down the next corridor. But if the jerk had started the Hive when he was able to, we would've had umbra in plenty of time to defeat the turrets. Instead he screwed around for another 25 minutes, not building the Hive, and what do you know - right after we FINALLY convince him to build it, the Marines show up with their siege turret. That was the beginning of the end.
Point being, if your gorges aren't enabling the rest of the team to get the turret killing weapons by just being bad gorges, then yes the turret farms (minifarms now with the patch <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) will take you out. But if you can just get the second hive built, it becomes almost trivial to take down these fortifications before they do you any major harm.
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Ya know for someoen who wants this thread to die I don't remember you actually saying one USEFUL thing towards your side of the argument <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
(many spelling errors, bad sentence structure but im in a hurry to write this)