Whatever Trevor
Malibu_Stacey
Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15243Members
Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15243Members
Comments
But, they aren't ever taking it out, and since Flayra insists on keeping NS and combat balanced together, anything put into one mode is in the other.
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
Basically in my opinion Combat is teaching the NS playerbase to be Rambos. A team of 6+ Rambos are going to lose on marines around 95% of the time no matter how good thier aim is.
I ended up kicking 4 marines as a result of complete incompetetance - Now before some one sits up and screams "OMGdz0r an ns guide kicked people for being new?!" - No, I kicked them for not listening
- They wouldn't listen to the comm (malibu)
- They wouldn't listen to the rest of the team
- They wouldn't listen to orders coming from admin_say
- They wouldn't listen to orders coming from rcon say
they didnt' actually respond to any thing - they just spawned, ran off and shot things - I put an RT down next to one, and he just ran off to get killed by a skulk 40 metres from the RT.
Combat is a lot more fun, and fast paced, and pure-skill-based than NS.
Combat teaches teamwork through diverse roles. Aliens need an onos to counter HA, fade as general support class, lerk to counter jps, and gorge to heal hive and players.
Marines need combinations of jp/shotguns, ha/hmgs and guys with welders.
The experience proximity distribution teaches players to stay together. This is especially true for late-joining marines, since they won't get any kills unless they are with someone else.
I don't think combat is to blame for stupid people.
Combat is a lot more fun, and fast paced, and pure-skill-based than NS.
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Fun
Matter of opinion, but yeah, I find it less stressful. Somewhat like comparing Snakes and ladders to Risk.
Fast paced
Certainly
Skill-based.
Ah.
Now things get tricky.
Commanding is certainly FAR more skillful than *ANY* aspect of CO. You can pluck a JPer out of the air with a single devour? So what? Far less impressive than a team of 5 men and a comm pulling off a hive IP rush.
The Bread-and-butter marine in NS certainly does not need less skill to be successful. Simply being at the right place to build a PG is often enough to make a huge difference to the game.
And in CO, even skilled players are not always successful. A skulk at any level (of skill, not CO level,) can get lucky and kill a lvl10 JP. And what's skillful about being the only player on a 16 man server who has had more than 6months experience of NS? :\
CO and NS can live side-by-side, even if the community does divide rather than diversify.
In my opinion most stupid players come from combat...
regardless, it's here to stay
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Combat is a lot more fun, and fast paced, and pure-skill-based than NS.
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ehm.. no?
Combat has just corrupted the minds of all nsplayers.
You are a lvl10 skulk with all upgrades running around killing everything.
And then nsplayer joins a classic ns game. Spawns as skulk and runs towards the marines screaming RAAWWRR! and gets knifed.
Nsplayers say WTH and uses all his res to go fade since he will keep spawning as a fade
at least that is what he thinks.
Nsplayer wastes all the team´s well needed res and gets knifed as fade. He lamequits screams classic sux its teh imbalanced 111!1!!!11!" and starts to play full time combat.
CO players should try to learn from other NS players in teamplay instead of ramboing alone all the time
<!--QuoteBegin-skifly+Jul 22 2004, 01:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skifly @ Jul 22 2004, 01:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
Combat teaches teamwork through diverse roles. Aliens need an onos to counter HA, fade as general support class, lerk to counter jps, and gorge to heal hive and players.
Marines need combinations of jp/shotguns, ha/hmgs and guys with welders.
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TBH: Thats "teamwork" is so extremely basic, so i dont even call it teamwork..
Combat is ABSOLUTELY a learning tool.
Combat teaches a person about the differences between each race and every weapon in the game (when to use, when not to use, what's effective or not)
Plus, it teaches a person HOW to use said weapons. I don't see nearly anyone using bilebomb (in Classic) on marines anymore, it used to be prevelent. I think at least part of this is because people on CO tell that person what BB is used for, and that knowledge is taken into Classic games.
It teaches them about the physics of the game, how far you can jump, walking on walls/ceilings etc.
It also teaches them important gameplay methods including as a skulk running directly at a marine gets you killed (it may seem trivial, but is a huge adjustment and is often the source of many of the complaints about aliens being weak).
Now that being said Combat isn't perfect, not even close, there are many things I think have to be adjusted in order to make it better, and able to be used as an even better learning tool. But to dismiss it's value outright is foolish.
The other thing to remember is that if people don't like Classic mode or can't figure out what they are doing, they can always return to Combat to gain more experience with the game. Then once they have played a little longer again try to make the transition to Classic. With Combat eliminated (addressed to the original poster), those people would move away from NS altogether.
I ended up kicking 4 marines as a result of complete incompetetance - Now before some one sits up and screams "OMGdz0r an ns guide kicked people for being new?!" - No, I kicked them for not listening
- They wouldn't listen to the comm (malibu)
- They wouldn't listen to the rest of the team
- They wouldn't listen to orders coming from admin_say
- They wouldn't listen to orders coming from rcon say
they didnt' actually respond to any thing - they just spawned, ran off and shot things - I put an RT down next to one, and he just ran off to get killed by a skulk 40 metres from the RT.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Combat isn't to blame.. This same thing happened in version 1.04, and 2.01 and now in 3 beta 4a...
It's some people can't/won't grasp the concept of this game.
However, now instead of having them leave NS, and bad mouth the game to others (OMG, I tried to run around and shoot stuff, and I got banned), they can now go to Combat and gain the additional experience needed to possibly return to Classic one day. Or not, either way they are still playing NS, which is a good thing.
The longer someone is playing this game(Combat), the better chance there is they will start understanding Classic, and become a valuable, contributing member of the community.
You are a lvl10 skulk with all upgrades running around killing everything.
And then nsplayer joins a classic ns game. Spawns as skulk and runs towards the marines screaming RAAWWRR! and gets knifed.
Nsplayers say WTH and uses all his res to go fade since he will keep spawning as a fade
at least that is what he thinks.
Nsplayer wastes all the team´s well needed res and gets knifed as fade. He lamequits screams classic sux its teh imbalanced 111!1!!!11!" and starts to play full time combat. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Happy End!
..at least it seems so.
I have experienced the same situation where someone went fade and thought he would respawn as fade <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Personaly i feel combat has riped the soul from NS then cooked it at gas mark 6 for 1/2 hour and let it cool down before puting it in the bin.
It would be great to get rid of combat but as a few people have pointed out Flayra wants it in so nothing much can be done on that front. There are however a few very good sugestions in the S&I forums and the S&I mark 2 forums, woops i mean beta descution <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> , on how to inprove combat to make it less like a <a href='http://www.free-definition.com/Deathmatch.html' target='_blank'>TDM</a>.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat is ABSOLUTELY a learning tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, thats nice of it to teach people to play NS, very good idea if it worked like that. The idea of it being for learning would mean that you go from combat to clasic NS. That doesnt happen and when a clasic map is played either people leave or they dont have a clue what is going on. ns_siege007 and the like are better as learning tools than combat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It teaches them about the physics of the game, how far you can jump, walking on walls/ceilings etc.
It also teaches them important gameplay methods including as a skulk running directly at a marine gets you killed (it may seem trivial, but is a huge adjustment and is often the source of many of the complaints about aliens being weak).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to keep in mind all the people that played NS before v3.0 learned from trail-and-error. Correct me if im wrong but games pre-3.0 where great fun and where only ever slightly biased to one side.
/rant
Combat is a lot more fun, and fast paced, and pure-skill-based than NS.
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alrighty.... I figured since everyone else quoted this ( mostly because how outragously wrong it is in so many levels)
alrighty you want to talk skill? lets talk skill right now.
combat - no RTs
NS - RTs
combat - don't lose evolotions and upgrades when you die
NS - lose evolotions and upgrades when you die
combat - soloism
NS - teamwork
combat - smaller maps
NS - larger maps
combat - made for people that can't play a stratigic game and only care about their score cards so they'd only go early onos in a NS game anyways so its kinda better that combat junkies don't play NS a lot cuz they'd just screw up the games with there HUGE misunderstandings about the game and how its suppose to be played.
NS - a unique stradagy game for people who are tired from the classic kill kill kll and nothing else mods *cough* Cs *uncough* for people who can out think their enemys as well as shoot/slash them to pieces.
NS is the heart of NS ( thats probobly why its called NS ) so go ahead and talk about you "skillz" you have no idea what the true game is suppose to be about..... I feel sorry for you your so happy with CO that you'll never know the greatness of NS.......I'm sorry for you
It also teaches them important gameplay methods including as a skulk running directly at a marine gets you killed (it may seem trivial, but is a huge adjustment and is often the source of many of the complaints about aliens being weak).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to keep in mind all the people that played NS before v3.0 learned from trail-and-error. Correct me if im wrong but games pre-3.0 where great fun and where only ever slightly biased to one side.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course.. However this makes it easier and saves people all the growing pains we went through back 2 years ago and yet allows them to play an actual game.
Remember back in 1.04-2.01 when people were yelling and screaming for a hazard course to teach players how to play. Well combat takes care of that..
The "skill" that you guys are talking about is just physical skill with classes, and aiming, which is only about 30% of classic NS.
classic NS requires more knowledge of the game than skill...The only thing combat does to help NSers is to know what classes do what, other than that it gives them false rules to go by, a thinking that they're "independent" and no teamwork is required.
and to skifly...if you honestly think combat requires teamwork at all...have you ever played a game of classic NS? I see by your name that you registered before combat was even out, but I honestly cant seem to believe that you've ever played a game of classic
1. I would be a lot worse at NS
2. Classic might still have been fun, due to balance actually fitting, rather than being an unhappy medium.
But it's a bit late to ask for its removal now.
It should also remind new players the difference between Combat and Classic ingame.
Being able to fully stop it appearing with cl_autohelp 0 would be nice too. It still wont go away fully.
Blame it on CS, blame it on DoD, blame it on Combat, it makes no difference; if NS had been the first multiplayer game ever, you'd still meet as many clueless smacktards.
Methinks that once NS is polished off and ready to be released, then work should start on the autohelp tooltips and a new manual.
The manual is how I got started on this game, the autohelp kept reminding me of what I had learned in the manual. If people who venture from CO to NS get the resources of an updated manual and updated autohelp, I know that things will be a lot easier for active-comms aliens (a.k.a. permagorges and teamwork-oriented combat lifeforms) and the commanders out there in the audience.
Blame it on CS, blame it on DoD, blame it on Combat, it makes no difference; if NS had been the first multiplayer game ever, you'd still meet as many clueless smacktards. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have a server, I play on a large number of european ones and the occasional US one & as one of your NSGuides (shanks) said it wasn't just 4 marines. It was the majority of the marine team for 5 or 6 rounds on 4+ maps all on a popular UK server (I played Alien rounds inbetween to ease my pain so it wasn't 5 or 6 rounds continously on Marines). He only kicked and/or banned 4 for the reasons he gives. It appears these days that the rule is if they have an icon next to their name then they have a clue about NS classic (with every rule there are exceptions) and yet there is this animosity towards vet icons. gee gee.
I was going to post an example but why bother this discussion isn't going anywhere and it really just started off with me venting my frustration however you'd be surprised at who and how many people have said in servers that they agree with me.
Combat may teach the basics of NS but is as great a tool as people proclaim if it teaches people the wrong things as well as the right things?
Not fun = not played.
Fun = played.
CO is currently more fun then NS (due to some rather tragic gameplay design decisions).
You can't FORCE people to learn a game they don't find fun.
And yes, for pubs, NS is a chore.
that's why you should play at #nspug
*I evolve to gorge.*
Teammate: Go get some resources.
Me: How do I do that?
Teammate: Go up to a resource tower and push 'e' (or something like that)
*I walk up to the built resource tower in our starting hive (probably aided by the help messages) and hold 'e' for 5 minutes.*
I don't see how combat would have helped with this, or with any situation involving structure placement.