<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jul 22 2004, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jul 22 2004, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a typical problem of distorted perception to me: Sure, you will all be able to tell me about those four outrageously stupid marines that connected to your server in the last month, and maybe, you'll even have a quote from two of them proving that they played a lot of Combat before, but guess what - it's well possible that three of the six marines who joined you in moaning about those smacktards first contacted NS via Combat, as well - you'll just never find out, because they are decent players, and really now, who asks the guy covering his back whether he's a Co- or a Classic player? Blame it on CS, blame it on DoD, blame it on Combat, it makes no difference; if NS had been the first multiplayer game ever, you'd still meet as many clueless smacktards. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dont think anyone is saying that everyone would fully understand clasic NS if combat was never added and I dont think anyone has a problem with answering questions from players that want to understand how to play clasic NS. The probelm comes when people that have been playing combat play normal NS like they do in combat, fair enough its not a new thing, rambos, but in the past its been much less of a probelm because even if someone is running about the map justing killing stuff they still know how to build an RT or use a phase gate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And yes, for pubs, NS is a chore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think most people will agree that it was never like that before and i dont see why it should be left this way.
The NS Manual hasnt been totaly updated for 3.0 or if someone has made one its not downloaded with the installer so people dont go looking for it. This might be because its a beta version but i think that a updated manual and even a flash guide (like the 1.0 one) that loads after the installeris done would make a big diffrence.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cO is fine. It's much better than having new marines who can't shoot skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most, if not all , people that play NS have played , HL , CS, DOD , Unreal , Quake etc , so saying that combat makes people know/understand what there are shooting is rather odd as the idea of any FPS is to kill the people trying to kill you.
hmm, i have to admit i use co to practise my aim alot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> since im always taking a few weeks off now and again i need someway to keep the aim up <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> other then that i dont really see much use for combat :/ it just brings the CS'rs over imo <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Rue+Jul 22 2004, 01:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Jul 22 2004, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cO is fine. It's much better than having new marines who can't shoot skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most, if not all , people that play NS have played , HL , CS, DOD , Unreal , Quake etc , so saying that combat makes people know/understand what there are shooting is rather odd as the idea of any FPS is to kill the people trying to kill you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's hard to learn how to kill skulks, especially if its your first game of NS. Most new players don't even know what a skulk looks like anyways.
<!--QuoteBegin-i'm lost+Jul 22 2004, 01:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Jul 22 2004, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *I walk up to the built resource tower in our starting hive (probably aided by the help messages) and hold 'e' for 5 minutes.*
I don't see how combat would have helped with this, or with any situation involving structure placement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> rtfm? go figure.
I guess the problem there was that I didn't know a manual existed. There needs to be a full version of the manual in the installer, and it needs to open up automatically when the installer finishes. I played for about 4 or 5 months before I found this site, and I never had anyone mention a manual to me, so I didn't have any reason to go and look for it. I think reading the manual would be more helpful than playing combat, actually.
Combat does not learn people how to play. For marines, perhaps it teaches them the basic physics of NS as well as an introduction to the weapons and how to shoot things. It does not, as many others have said, learn them you shouldn't do the same things in classic, that you do in combat. Imagine rambo's. While the good marine rambo's are a tremendous help for the marine team, newer rambo's hurt the team a lot. They pick up an HA/SG kit, thinks "hey cool, now wheres the aliens?" wanders off, finds himself alone in the hive, and gets inevitably killed.
Where the big part of Combat misleading people to play is, lies with the fact combat can make any alien a hell of a lot stronger than in classic. As someone else has said, the NSPlayer that just went 20-6 as skulk, spawns somewhere in cargo, runs at the marine at the end of the hallway while wondering why leap doesnt work, and dies within a second. Then he wonders why he can't evolve to fade. He has 3 points doesn't he? "oooooooooooooh, i need 50 points for fade?!? oh, resources. ok, weird. thanks."
So NSPlayer goes fade, takes a few upgrades, and charges at the mob of shotgunners, expecting to kill them all, after all, he's done it loads of times in combat. He dies. That 50 res could have been a hive, or 3 DCs, or 3 RTs. A lot of these newer players think "gorges suck, its boring", and hence, will go for fades and lerks and onos because theyve owned so incredibly much with themin combat. And yet in classic, he has trouble getting a few kills before a swift death. Now, while new players are of course more interested in the cool rhino thing, combat trains them to think every single alien can mop up packs of marines left and right. It doesn't work that way in classic.
If there hadn't been combat, the new player would have saved for onos once, died, and thought "Oh, dang, i suck at this. Better leave it to players who are better than me and play gorge and skulk for now to help my team."
And, of course, if there hadn't been combat, a lot of the pre-3.0 people would still have been sucky players at some skills (For me, fade). But the fact that the pre 2.0 people already know that the lerks fades and onos die with incredible ease, made Combat, for players like me (I started in 2.0), an excellent way to at least become a half-decent player.
But, for the fact that a lot of 3.0 players think combat is the easiest and least difficult game mode of the two, they slowly sink the thought of "Well, a skulk can own a marine pretty easily", They don't have the slightest idea of ambushing, they charge at marines with any lifeform expecting to see all the marines disappear in a puddle of blood, and wonder why they don't in classic, die, and get annoyed with being a weak skulk again that can't own a marine pretty easily for some reason.
Hence combat might not be the only reason of retards in classic, but it sure is a big one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If ignorance is a crime why am I the only one being punished? :S<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, oh, I know!
*Raises his left hand eagerly up*
"Because ignorance leads to stupidity, and the stupid learn only from hard-life examples!"
*Hides behind the table from the mods Vacationizer 7* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When I read about NS I had thoughts similar to "Ooeh...commander..." "Structures too?" "Aliens?!" "Resource system? Damn, this must be one leet mod". I promptly downloaded and fired up the manual. You take one look at the thing and think "This thing is so long, too boring, I want to be a commander; I could probably pick this stuff up while I play." I fired up the game, joined a server, and hopped directly into the chair, not knowing a single thing about NS. This was the first time I ever played NS, I had no idea what I was doing, I didn't think it was fun so I quit. Didn't touch it for about 6 months until I was bored, so I tried it again, but read the manual first. With the basics down, I got into the game, and gradually grew to like it and play decently well in it.
Point? No one gives a damn about the manual. You stick a 10 page manual in front of their face, they won't bother to glance at it, and get in the game completely clueless. This is how several newer members of the NS community are. They play it, they don't know whats going on, they don't think its fun, they quit. NS has a much steeper learning curve than your average mod like CS or DOD. Who has played CS or DOD and not know what the heck was going on? Not much; All you had to do was go around the map shooting people, not a very hard concept to grasp, and no manual needed for some mindless fun.
Solution? CO. Sure it doesn't even teach them 50% of the mechanics to play a decent NS game, but its easy to play, and decently fun. Now instead of 'This sucks, I don't know what the hell is going on' its 'Well...this mod is not bad...hey, they have another mode...lets try that too'. A portion of the Co-ers will stay with CO, and another (most likely smaller) portion will get into NS, and start playing the 'real game'. Either way, both get exposure and the community grows. Someone doesn't like NS? Fine, stick with CO...maybe you'll try NS again when you're ready and bored with CO.
We're going to have CO communities. Lets face it. Some people just like mindless fragging more than fragging with strategy. Its not a matter of superiority, or what mode spawn fromed what, or which mode came first. CO players will be CO players, NS players will be NS players. Occationally they will intervine, and some playerbases will lose players to eachother, but it doesn't matter. CO is part of NS. CO has helped NS grow, thats what CO was made for.
i learned how to blink in co... but its true that it gives new players a wrong picture of the real game. and i don't think thats a good think, no not at all. co shouldnt just be learning what guns to use and how to blink etc it should have more of the "teamwork" thing and would require the team to actually generate and follow a strategy and give every team member a certain task. even if its just "weld each other, protect the gl'er" or "umbra the onos, lerks spore fades blink in to draw fire then skulks **** marines one by one." hmm got carried away...
actually id like to see some maps that would have captureable flapgs like in DoD. replace flags with anything related to ns, say resnodes.
the only reason why marines stick together in co is because the corridors are so tight you cant wander off very far. because the only way to kill aliens is to go that way even if your teammates are going there too.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->actually id like to see some maps that would have captureable flapgs like in DoD. replace flags with anything related to ns, say resnodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is a pretty damn good idea. Would at least focus the teamplay a fair bit more and teach people more about NS. Make the maps a bit bigger, add 2 or 3 res nodes on each one between the spawns & let the mapper set how many people need to defend a resource node and for how long before it is built for thier team. Might want to make the alien team require a gorge at the RT to be able to cap it but it depends on how well that would work.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the only reason why marines stick together in co is because the corridors are so tight you cant wander off very far. because the only way to kill aliens is to go that way even if your teammates are going there too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That Sums up combat perfectly. 2 or 3 routes between yours and the enemy spawn, with 6-10 players on a team it doesn't take much algebra to figure it out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some people just like mindless fragging more than fragging with strategy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Half true. NS v1&2 were never about fragging as much as claiming areas. In several cases, there wasn't even need for a single frag to accomplish this.
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
I was playing on a server and this player went fade and gorge, and died.
then he said
"Why don't I respawn back as fade"
"i player Combat"
me - "When you die in classic you come back as a skulk"
"thats lame"
People that start out on combat will be rely on the combat knowledge and brings a bad generation of gimmes <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I bet most of NS servers players play combat (thefact that you can get to the lifeform faster and not have to worry about dieing)
i think Co is the devil but it so many people play it i dont ever see it being removed. it is one thing being able to kill. it is quite another to know what is realy going on and to work as a team to reach a goal.
<!--QuoteBegin-Malibu Stacey+Jul 21 2004, 06:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Malibu Stacey @ Jul 21 2004, 06:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not concerned about the balance of the game, its the complete lack of education of the players. Combat does nothing to promote teamplay, it is a pure TDM fragfest. People get used to that very easily. They come to play NS & have no idea of what a waypoint is or why they should do what the commander tells them or what resources/resource nodes do or why working with teammates (such as building while covering, welding both LA & HA etc) is what is <u>required</u> in NS. These things are either totally unapplicable to Combat or are very rare. Basically in my opinion Combat is teaching the NS playerbase to be Rambos. A team of 6+ Rambos are going to lose on marines around 95% of the time no matter how good thier aim is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I fully agree with that
Yes ... Combat tells new players wrong tales about Classic. But also Combat tells new players the basics about the game. And whatever Combat exists or not you have to deal with "uneducated" players in your team. Sometimes you habe 4 in your team and gg. Sometimes they are studpid newbies just rambo'ing around and sometimes they ask what they should do and perform pretty well for newbies.
We allways have to deal with newbies also in 1.xx or 2.xx. I play ns since the first day and i read the manual at the second day but mainly i learnd the game by playing it. Luckily for me everyone else was also a newbie so it makes no difference.
Removing Combat wont change anything. Ok maybe we had lower players think they will respawn as Fade if the die but more players bilebombing Rines or try to kill HA's with spores.
I would rather have the impatient people stop playing NS altogether. Combat doesn't teach you anything, anyone whos going to play Half-Life already has/is and as such they are already acquainted with the superficial aspects of NS gameplay such as the physics and shooting etc. If someone were smart enough to play a game of Classic and then go back to Combat to learn more then they would be smart enough to just stick with Classic.
Seriously, NS isn't that complicated; its most basic components, like the res system and weapons (including skulk wallclimbing), are quite intuitive. After <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>READING THE MANUAL</span>, I was able to pick up wallclimbing and I tested out all the weapons/evolutions on both sides in a LAN game by myself within a few minutes.
The only things people need to spend time learning about are strategies and how to effectively combine all the different features of NS to win the game. The challenge in NS is figuring out how to use these strategies and use them effectively, as well as coming up with new and unexpected ways to win the game. Honestly, if you're not willing/patient/intelligent enough to pick up NS relatively quickly then who needs you?
People might hate you at first for becoming the second gorge (back in the day when that was bad) but after you log off they'll probably forget you exist, and the next time you join a game and you have the skills to play correctly, no one will remember the time you spent learning.
Edit: This wasn't intended as a Combat flame, if you're an experienced NS player and you like/play Combat: good for you. New players shouldn't be exposed to something like Combat though, at least until they've proven mature enough to handle Classic.
Instead of the manual there should be a movie that plays after you installed NS. It should be about 5 minutes and show the basics of NS and maybe CO to. Like on half of the screen showing comm-mode and the other half rine-mode. And when the rine builds (say an armory) the movie would freeze and you get a two line explanation of the building: "This is an armory. Use it to get additional ammo for your weapons. The armory also alows the commander to drop better weapons". It shouldn't be to complicated and long because then it would be just like the manual. Then when the building is done on the comm-mode it would show that he can now drop sg's etc. If this could be done for rine and alien then new players would now the basics and can now start playing NS. Maybe there could also be additional movies showing off alien and rine tactics like ambushing and rines rushing a hive.
Comments
Blame it on CS, blame it on DoD, blame it on Combat, it makes no difference; if NS had been the first multiplayer game ever, you'd still meet as many clueless smacktards. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think anyone is saying that everyone would fully understand clasic NS if combat was never added and I dont think anyone has a problem with answering questions from players that want to understand how to play clasic NS.
The probelm comes when people that have been playing combat play normal NS like they do in combat, fair enough its not a new thing, rambos, but in the past its been much less of a probelm because even if someone is running about the map justing killing stuff they still know how to build an RT or use a phase gate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And yes, for pubs, NS is a chore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think most people will agree that it was never like that before and i dont see why it should be left this way.
The NS Manual hasnt been totaly updated for 3.0 or if someone has made one its not downloaded with the installer so people dont go looking for it. This might be because its a beta version but i think that a updated manual and even a flash guide (like the 1.0 one) that loads after the installeris done would make a big diffrence.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cO is fine. It's much better than having new marines who can't shoot skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most, if not all , people that play NS have played , HL , CS, DOD , Unreal , Quake etc , so saying that combat makes people know/understand what there are shooting is rather odd as the idea of any FPS is to kill the people trying to kill you.
It's hard to learn how to kill skulks, especially if its your first game of NS. Most new players don't even know what a skulk looks like anyways.
I don't see how combat would have helped with this, or with any situation involving structure placement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
rtfm?
go figure.
It does not, as many others have said, learn them you shouldn't do the same things in classic, that you do in combat. Imagine rambo's. While the good marine rambo's are a tremendous help for the marine team, newer rambo's hurt the team a lot. They pick up an HA/SG kit, thinks "hey cool, now wheres the aliens?" wanders off, finds himself alone in the hive, and gets inevitably killed.
Where the big part of Combat misleading people to play is, lies with the fact combat can make any alien a hell of a lot stronger than in classic. As someone else has said, the NSPlayer that just went 20-6 as skulk, spawns somewhere in cargo, runs at the marine at the end of the hallway while wondering why leap doesnt work, and dies within a second. Then he wonders why he can't evolve to fade. He has 3 points doesn't he? "oooooooooooooh, i need 50 points for fade?!? oh, resources. ok, weird. thanks."
So NSPlayer goes fade, takes a few upgrades, and charges at the mob of shotgunners, expecting to kill them all, after all, he's done it loads of times in combat. He dies. That 50 res could have been a hive, or 3 DCs, or 3 RTs. A lot of these newer players think "gorges suck, its boring", and hence, will go for fades and lerks and onos because theyve owned so incredibly much with themin combat. And yet in classic, he has trouble getting a few kills before a swift death. Now, while new players are of course more interested in the cool rhino thing, combat trains them to think every single alien can mop up packs of marines left and right. It doesn't work that way in classic.
If there hadn't been combat, the new player would have saved for onos once, died, and thought "Oh, dang, i suck at this. Better leave it to players who are better than me and play gorge and skulk for now to help my team."
And, of course, if there hadn't been combat, a lot of the pre-3.0 people would still have been sucky players at some skills (For me, fade). But the fact that the pre 2.0 people already know that the lerks fades and onos die with incredible ease, made Combat, for players like me (I started in 2.0), an excellent way to at least become a half-decent player.
But, for the fact that a lot of 3.0 players think combat is the easiest and least difficult game mode of the two, they slowly sink the thought of "Well, a skulk can own a marine pretty easily", They don't have the slightest idea of ambushing, they charge at marines with any lifeform expecting to see all the marines disappear in a puddle of blood, and wonder why they don't in classic, die, and get annoyed with being a weak skulk again that can't own a marine pretty easily for some reason.
Hence combat might not be the only reason of retards in classic, but it sure is a big one.
rofl
If ignorance is a crime why am I the only one being punished? :S
Oh, oh, I know!
*Raises his left hand eagerly up*
"Because ignorance leads to stupidity, and the stupid learn only from hard-life examples!"
*Hides behind the table from the mods Vacationizer 7* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Point? No one gives a damn about the manual. You stick a 10 page manual in front of their face, they won't bother to glance at it, and get in the game completely clueless. This is how several newer members of the NS community are. They play it, they don't know whats going on, they don't think its fun, they quit. NS has a much steeper learning curve than your average mod like CS or DOD. Who has played CS or DOD and not know what the heck was going on? Not much; All you had to do was go around the map shooting people, not a very hard concept to grasp, and no manual needed for some mindless fun.
Solution? CO. Sure it doesn't even teach them 50% of the mechanics to play a decent NS game, but its easy to play, and decently fun. Now instead of 'This sucks, I don't know what the hell is going on' its 'Well...this mod is not bad...hey, they have another mode...lets try that too'. A portion of the Co-ers will stay with CO, and another (most likely smaller) portion will get into NS, and start playing the 'real game'. Either way, both get exposure and the community grows. Someone doesn't like NS? Fine, stick with CO...maybe you'll try NS again when you're ready and bored with CO.
We're going to have CO communities. Lets face it. Some people just like mindless fragging more than fragging with strategy. Its not a matter of superiority, or what mode spawn fromed what, or which mode came first. CO players will be CO players, NS players will be NS players. Occationally they will intervine, and some playerbases will lose players to eachother, but it doesn't matter. CO is part of NS. CO has helped NS grow, thats what CO was made for.
actually id like to see some maps that would have captureable flapgs like in DoD. replace flags with anything related to ns, say resnodes.
the only reason why marines stick together in co is because the corridors are so tight you cant wander off very far. because the only way to kill aliens is to go that way even if your teammates are going there too.
That is a pretty damn good idea. Would at least focus the teamplay a fair bit more and teach people more about NS.
Make the maps a bit bigger, add 2 or 3 res nodes on each one between the spawns & let the mapper set how many people need to defend a resource node and for how long before it is built for thier team. Might want to make the alien team require a gorge at the RT to be able to cap it but it depends on how well that would work.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the only reason why marines stick together in co is because the corridors are so tight you cant wander off very far. because the only way to kill aliens is to go that way even if your teammates are going there too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That Sums up combat perfectly. 2 or 3 routes between yours and the enemy spawn, with 6-10 players on a team it doesn't take much algebra to figure it out.
Half true. NS v1&2 were never about fragging as much as claiming areas. In several cases, there wasn't even need for a single frag to accomplish this.
then he said
"Why don't I respawn back as fade"
"i player Combat"
me - "When you die in classic you come back as a skulk"
"thats lame"
People that start out on combat will be rely on the combat knowledge and brings a bad generation of gimmes <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I bet most of NS servers players play combat (thefact that you can get to the lifeform faster and not have to worry about dieing)
Basically in my opinion Combat is teaching the NS playerbase to be Rambos. A team of 6+ Rambos are going to lose on marines around 95% of the time no matter how good thier aim is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fully agree with that
We allways have to deal with newbies also in 1.xx or 2.xx. I play ns since the first day and i read the manual at the second day but mainly i learnd the game by playing it. Luckily for me everyone else was also a newbie so it makes no difference.
Removing Combat wont change anything. Ok maybe we had lower players think they will respawn as Fade if the die but more players bilebombing Rines or try to kill HA's with spores.
Seriously, NS isn't that complicated; its most basic components, like the res system and weapons (including skulk wallclimbing), are quite intuitive. After <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>READING THE MANUAL</span>, I was able to pick up wallclimbing and I tested out all the weapons/evolutions on both sides in a LAN game by myself within a few minutes.
The only things people need to spend time learning about are strategies and how to effectively combine all the different features of NS to win the game. The challenge in NS is figuring out how to use these strategies and use them effectively, as well as coming up with new and unexpected ways to win the game. Honestly, if you're not willing/patient/intelligent enough to pick up NS relatively quickly then who needs you?
People might hate you at first for becoming the second gorge (back in the day when that was bad) but after you log off they'll probably forget you exist, and the next time you join a game and you have the skills to play correctly, no one will remember the time you spent learning.
Edit: This wasn't intended as a Combat flame, if you're an experienced NS player and you like/play Combat: good for you. New players shouldn't be exposed to something like Combat though, at least until they've proven mature enough to handle Classic.
Like on half of the screen showing comm-mode and the other half rine-mode. And when the rine builds (say an armory) the movie would freeze and you get a two line explanation of the building: "This is an armory. Use it to get additional ammo for your weapons. The armory also alows the commander to drop better weapons". It shouldn't be to complicated and long because then it would be just like the manual. Then when the building is done on the comm-mode it would show that he can now drop sg's etc.
If this could be done for rine and alien then new players would now the basics and can now start playing NS. Maybe there could also be additional movies showing off alien and rine tactics like ambushing and rines rushing a hive.
Combat will serve a bigger purpose... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->