I'm not sacrificing my vision by any means. Developers are stuck in a catch-22: we're either "sacrificing our vision" or "ignoring the players". You can't please both. Please please, tell us what you like and don't like, and let us handle the game.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Nov 7 2002, 12:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Nov 7 2002, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not sacrificing my vision by any means. Developers are stuck in a catch-22: we're either "sacrificing our vision" or "ignoring the players". You can't please both. Please please, tell us what you like and don't like, and let us handle the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> he has spoken.
i don't think flay is like gooseman (who contraty to popular belief) infact did mess up CS and not it being valve. Flay i don't think will listen to noobs but instead will CONSIDER what they think, CONSIDER what the more experienced players and vets think and then do what HE BELIEVES is the right choice (could be no chance at all :o)
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
For the record: Flayra made the majority of these alien-favoring changes after watching many high-powered clan matches. In the hands of an effective commander, the marine team is *deadly*. As people in the pubs learn the ins and outs of commanding - giving/following orders, effective turret placement, and attack strategies (like siege building), teams will balance out nicely.
Yes, I know it's hard for pubbers to really learn teamwork. But I think if anything can teach them, NS can.
If anybody read my post before I was scared that the changes they were making would overpower the Kharaa way too much, but after a couple of games today I can honestly say that is NOT the case. You say you haven't tried it and then make some pretty crazy demands. Please give it a try before posting something like this. . .
i recon one thing they should of toned down a bit is the speed of the <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> but keep everything else about them
i like the changes and recon its gonna make the game more fair but when ya have a herd of onos travelling at light speed it is like a pa server full of marines with nades in a hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Nov 6 2002, 06:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 6 2002, 06:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For the record: Flayra made the majority of these alien-favoring changes after watching many high-powered clan matches. In the hands of an effective commander, the marine team is *deadly*. As people in the pubs learn the ins and outs of commanding - giving/following orders, effective turret placement, and attack strategies (like siege building), teams will balance out nicely.
Yes, I know it's hard for pubbers to really learn teamwork. But I think if anything can teach them, NS can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok...ok...I don't think that public games will ever get to this teamwork level. Maybe Tournament mode should be more in the alien's favor and public should be the opposite. I don't think the game can be "balanced" when he's watching only the top players in NS, it has to be in the middle. But hell, what do I know? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
yeah i also think now the marines are tooooooooo bad. the aliens were not that bad as i thought at beginning, you just have to find out there little tricks such as the bullet-slowing smoke of the lerk or the web (gorge) they were never used in the first 3-4 days. but these tricks are mostly only useful in teams...eg a lerk blows smoke on the sgs and the onos crashes them but now ... i think you precipated with that...to make almost every alien better and every unit of marines more expensive or are to lame now. i think it was bad with the grenade launcher to make its clip smaller and also make it more effective. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> and by the way i think there is a little bug with the jetpack..you can fly on when the bar is already empty for a while the bar should get empty little slower <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marines were powerful on pubs, i figured that in the clan matches aliens would stomp em though. Hearing that, about the clan matches, I definatly thing the changes were for the best. Why are the marines losing more often now? Because the aliens had a long amount of time where they were at a large disadvantage, and got to train single and team skills during the time, and now that its 'even', its not even, because the marines havn't had the chance to do the same. Sooner or later skill will always balance it out but its better if its more even, and, right now i think it pretty much is... though the fades are rather powerful now if they dont do stupid stuff, on the other hand, they always were... By general tech tree analysis they are about level with hmgs and -maybe- a ha or two, so yes, just like hmgs will usually own skulks unless they drop down and get three bites before he turns around and then gets lucky, a fade will usually own lmg marines unless they play real smart.
Just my opinions. I liked it before, I like it now, i just hope the marines learn skill, team and solo sooner or later, so there is perfect balance.
I like the new patch, it balances alot and makes it more fun and fair, marines are though when they have HA, now its more team orientated and less turretspamming. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The mods been out a week, give it time. I am sure they will be tweaing more items, both up and down. I like most of the changes I see, although due to technical problems haven't got to test them in game yet. Especially taking the turret control down knocking out any turrets around it. Will force a commander to more strategically place his turrets to defend the control as well as the control point I would think. And at least play the patch before you bash it...sheesh.
Keep up the good work Team, most addictive gameplay I have seen in a long time.
Well, the changes are ok, seeing more peeps forced to play aliens is a good thing (to bad they don't know how). I'm no whizz with numbers, hell, I just want that alien dead, and in pieces if possible.
My major complaint is (as stated by others) the lack of teamwork by the Marines. There definetly should be a tutorial where the player HAS to obey to orders. If he decides not to do so (like wander off, trying to kill that alien (unvurnable) whos serves as bait and then comes up against an onos and gest killed. Can you say continue?). He gets the point of following orders allright.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> ***obscenity**, how do I kill it! AAHHH COMMANDER HELP!!111*
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> Heh, n00b told ya not to do that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The mods been out a week, give it time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, yes, despite all my complaining/counter-complaining, I do stand on the idea that no adjustments should be made until it is certain that all players are L337.
Ok want the likes? ok i like that fades are more powerful. nade launchers 4 clips. i like the downgrade in hmg.
dislikes. I dont like fact that 3 faders can take us out with spams of acid goodness that makes it even harder to see. team was shooting everywhere cause acid was in his eyes. *or so he said* Also dont like fact that it is alot easier for them to pop out as a fade with the cost/upgrade ratio then it is for heavy. yes spawn and take items. but we are also defending turrets giving ammo to other people and getting time to spawn it. oh and got the rare **obscenity** who demand it now when commander has lots of other jobs to do.
Want ideas?
give the humans a medic Being a commander is a tough job with people screaming for health. a medic would come in handy and take the edge of being a commander. Medics would not have armor and would take skill to play. But having acid shoot out everywhere and people needing med packs that cost resource that we really need so badly now with the fix. yes med packs are not much. but they add up.And with no armor and ok hp the medic would not last long vs a sulk or acid rain. So would even it out some.
change faders acid shots rate back down and leave damage same. then game would be perfect in my eyes.
If you have a good commander he should have no problem dumping all the medpacks you use. Hence the medic would only be useful if you have a incompetent commander. The fade is okay now IMO, I for one prefer lerk for it's flexibility and teamwork promoting abilities, plus the fact that I hardly ever die, because I can flee in the blink of an eye. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
he has spoken.
i don't think flay is like gooseman (who contraty to popular belief) infact did mess up CS and not it being valve. Flay i don't think will listen to noobs but instead will CONSIDER what they think, CONSIDER what the more experienced players and vets think and then do what HE BELIEVES is the right choice (could be no chance at all :o)
Already I find the maps I know fairly well I usually win. While on the ones newer to me, it's a lot harder struggle.
Yes, I know it's hard for pubbers to really learn teamwork. But I think if anything can teach them, NS can.
i like the changes and recon its gonna make the game more fair but when ya have a herd of onos travelling at light speed it is like a pa server full of marines with nades in a hive.
jsut my idea no need to flame
Yes, I know it's hard for pubbers to really learn teamwork. But I think if anything can teach them, NS can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok...ok...I don't think that public games will ever get to this teamwork level. Maybe Tournament mode should be more in the alien's favor and public should be the opposite. I don't think the game can be "balanced" when he's watching only the top players in NS, it has to be in the middle. But hell, what do I know? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
the aliens were not that bad as i thought at beginning, you just have to find out there little tricks such as the bullet-slowing smoke of the lerk or the web (gorge) they were never used in the first 3-4 days.
but these tricks are mostly only useful in teams...eg a lerk blows smoke on the sgs and the onos crashes them but now ... i think you precipated with that...to make almost every alien better and every unit of marines more expensive or are to lame now. i think it was bad with the grenade launcher to make its clip smaller and also make it more effective. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
and by the way i think there is a little bug with the jetpack..you can fly on when the bar is already empty for a while the bar should get empty little slower <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just my opinions. I liked it before, I like it now, i just hope the marines learn skill, team and solo sooner or later, so there is perfect balance.
Everything is perfect now. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If the fade was set to what it was now before the patch, u probably wouldn't say it was overpowered.
Keep up the good work Team, most addictive gameplay I have seen in a long time.
My major complaint is (as stated by others) the lack of teamwork by the Marines. There definetly should be a tutorial where the player HAS to obey to orders.
If he decides not to do so (like wander off, trying to kill that alien (unvurnable) whos serves as bait and then comes up against an onos and gest killed. Can you say continue?). He gets the point of following orders allright.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
***obscenity**, how do I kill it! AAHHH COMMANDER HELP!!111*
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Heh, n00b told ya not to do that.
Yes, yes, despite all my complaining/counter-complaining, I do stand on the idea that no adjustments should be made until it is certain that all players are L337.
dislikes. I dont like fact that 3 faders can take us out with spams of acid goodness that makes it even harder to see. team was shooting everywhere cause acid was in his eyes. *or so he said* Also dont like fact that it is alot easier for them to pop out as a fade with the cost/upgrade ratio then it is for heavy. yes spawn and take items. but we are also defending turrets giving ammo to other people and getting time to spawn it. oh and got the rare **obscenity** who demand it now when commander has lots of other jobs to do.
Want ideas?
give the humans a medic Being a commander is a tough job with people screaming for health. a medic would come in handy and take the edge of being a commander. Medics would not have armor and would take skill to play. But having acid shoot out everywhere and people needing med packs that cost resource that we really need so badly now with the fix. yes med packs are not much. but they add up.And with no armor and ok hp the medic would not last long vs a sulk or acid rain. So would even it out some.
change faders acid shots rate back down and leave damage same. then game would be perfect in my eyes.