You can do it, I can cross most levels without landing. As for the cloaking, everyone knows that. What kind of builder builds only one sensory chamber? I just build 3 of them in a cluster and forget about it. And if you don't attack constantly you will be sieged. Simple as that.
My housemate and I played the game for 4 hours last night and were highly impressed. A very big well done to the NS team, and I am very much looking forward to the release of the updated Linux server.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PS. Love the marines who use the command console to call for stuff. "I need a med pack in here" *crawl crawl crawl crawl* "I need a ammo pack in here" *Bite* gotta love em <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But if they use the command console, the commander can actually locate them quickly. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You can jump to the last comm message.
I find the game intriguing, and the fact is, its a well done mod for an initial beta. How good was Beta 1 of CS? Even DoD? Frankly, the makers deserve alot of credit for rather spectacular work.
However, the aliens, in my opinion, are woefully underbalanced. I have no problem with marines filling rooms full of turrets if the aliens have some way to counter them effectively. The problem is that if the marines play even remotely competently, there is no way to counter them. Yes yes, we've all heard circle strafe, tower healing, blah blah blah.. the fact is that when you're faced with 5 turrets, those don't work.
So, your answer to this is to make the resources much more limited so everything effectively costs more.. thus, the aliens will pretty much have an absurd amount of resources compared to the marines? I've seen how hard it is to make it to Onos, and I've seen how hard it is to take one down, especially with a 2 resource usage for redemption. Now, if it costs the marines about all the resources on the map just to get one guy in heavy armor and with an HMG who might take down the onos if its not umbra'd, how balanced will that be?
The fact is, in this situation I would expect the marines to build firebases of sentry turrets. I would expect them to use alot of resources, because frankly if those 'starbases and starships' are worth so damn much money, what's a little expenditure? In fact, i'd expect that the marines would probably bring a command console, a pair of turrets, a spawnpoint, and an armory to any engagement.. its not like the marines don't know how powerful the Kharaa can get...
The problem is that BileBomb, which I feel is effective against turrets for the most part, is too far up the tree. 3 hives is too much to expect for the aliens to achieve before the marines bust into one hive room and setup turret defenses, and I think its unfair of the marines to limit them to basically LMG's and no armor.
At any rate, great mod, and kudo's to the authors AND the testers.. I'm sure you find it balanced, especially since you've had alot of skill and practice at it. Unfortunately, for those of us who haven't, well, it seems very UNBALANCED. And frankly, I don't know if people will be willing to play it long enough for them to gain the experience necessary to make it balanced. I guess a good rule of thumb is that if its not balanced for people who just pick up the game on both sides, its not balanced. This is a GREAT mod, and has a GREAT potential, but I'm afraid it won't pick up without some drastic changes to make the aliens and marines a bit more even in force. The only time I've seen the aliens win has either been through complete marine stupidity or an initial bumrush that got the command console or spawnpoint leaving the marines dead in the water a minute into the game. Anything else is pretty much failure.. once marines get turrets up in their base.
As for the resources.. well, like I said.. it won't balance it much to just flip the coin and make the aliens the easy race to play. The aliens shoudln't be difficult to play, and it shoudln't take alot of skill. Perhaps widening the area of effect for their melee attacks so they don't have to be straight on would help.. I can leap over alot of turret walls.
I tell you, I enjoy the mod, but I don't think people will give it much longer. Already I'm starting to notice our low-ping test server(by low ping I mean sub-100 ping for everyone) is sitting empty alot. its not public, I grant you, but the password is posted on a fairly popular board and 3 days ago it was constantly full. Maybe fixing the resources will fix the problem and I could be full of crap. But in my mind, I don't see how it could possibly help. Allowing FF would probably help more, at least with Grenade spam and turret walls. If the turrets might mow you down instead of the alien, at least you wouldn't see marines guarding lots and lots of turrets, or you could cause the turrets to gun them down.
At first I thought Aliens sucked. "**obscenity**, why can't I kill that bugger? He keeps fraggin' me with that uber HMG". Then I got to play the Marines and I figure they don't suck. The only problem is they are far too different from anything anyone normally plays and, frankly, the manual didn't seem to explain that well.
They are good at hit and runs(go in, hit something, go back to Defense, heal, repeat) and sneaky stuff. However, most people(Myself included) just don't like to play that way. It's great when the Aliens know what they are doing but most of the time people are running at me like a refular run and gun game. <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> = dead most of the time since most players just run at you over and over hoping to get around you.
I've seen one Onos and a Skulk beat the fark out of the Marines. The Skulk ran past the turrets at our base and got to the Command. He killed the Commander and the pod, thus screwing us. Then one or two Onos would raid the turrets(they were thicker than congealed blood in most bases), kill one of us and injure a turret, run off. Back and forth, back and forth. Finally the Onos had fragged the guy with the Welder and we couldn't find it. With no commander...... we got screwed ROYALLY.
Overall I'd say it's fairly balanced with one exception. Damn it, it's hard to bit someone. You move incredibly fast and they probably move at roughly medium speed. I zip by them before I can bite. Maybe I'm just slow...
Already know mm yes... Ohh, I know that one too.. Mmm yes.. Even thougth I never read any tuts or anything I know the game ALMOST inside out, only more tactics to plug in... Plug n pray.
The best Alien tactic i've seen was 5 skulks zerging the marine base, and the rest (4) digging in, building defenses.
The aliens managed to catch the marines by surprise and chewed up their main base since they were all ex-CSers out blasting the hive (and getting killed)
Suddenly, the marines had only the commander left, and the infantry spawn was gone....
(now the marines actually came back from that, but that's a different story)
I actually thought today that the anti-marine changes might have been too drastic and actually made the game unbalanced in favor of the aliens.. so I played two matches today, as both sides, and we won both. I used the tactics I always have for marines and aliens and they still work. What the patch has done is not gimp marines but mean that they cant do their cheaper tactics so often.
When a single skulk can run into the marine base at the start of the game and kill 4 marines and a spawn point before getting killed.. I dont think you can say aliens are too weak.
On melee attacks.. I've found the best method is to hop as you hit people. There seems to be locational damage and a chest bite usually kills instantly or in two hits. Still, a scream or grunt sound wouldn't go amiss for telling us when we are hitting. If you run into a big group of marines as a skulk (and dont have xenocide) the best idea is to hop around like a jack russel terrier on acid biting the hell out of everything. It takes a bit of luck but in most cases you'll kill at least two of them.
On stealth - silence. silence silence silence silence. Its as good as level 3 cloaking if you use it right. And the Onos with level 3 stealth and level 3 silence is a very amusing onos to play indeed. I've never heard any alien make noises randomly..
LOL. With all these pictures, it's like we're in kindergarten or something...
Teacher: "What is this, children?" [holds up picture: <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
Children: [yelling] "An evolved onos with level 3 carapace upgrades!"
Teacher: "Right! And what is this?" [holds up picture: <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
Children: [yelling] "A fully trained frontiersman with level 2 armor, a compressed-air type model grenade launcher, and standard issue military-grade handun!"
i havent actually played as a marine yet, first game i was alien because i really wanted to try the game out as an alien, second time i felt sorry for them only having 6 players against 12, and 3rd time because i wanted to kick **obscenity**.
first 2 times i didnt have a clue what was going on and we got hammered (massively outnumbered both times)
3rd time was different, joined the server late, so we were losing, had 2 clan mates on my team too. we got all the hives while providing some covering attacks. got the level 3 evos and nearly everyone became an <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
i personally love the onos, as u can guess, and got the highest alien score with mine, found regeneration and speed to be great, dash into a room, take out 2 marines and a machine gun then run out, regenerate, charge back in, repeat til room is clear.
the BEST weapon for an alien, is to scare the crap out of the marines, i've held off 3 marines by scampering around the doorway of a room they wanted to get in, and snapping at them a lot and jumping if one popped through, they really didnt like it and backed off, shooting now and again through the door, this gave us time to build defences.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> see that, thats what i have to say about aliens <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> but see that, they can rape the average marine ne day u know how they say, u cant just go out there rambo style which was basically a cs thing, well translate that into an alien thing guys a marine can go out there and slaughter a group of aliens basically if he knows what hes doing but aliens have to use there skills, thats why they are given them cloaking is the number one ability for aliens, most ppl will agree STEALTH is the key word when it comes to this game especially aliens i cant remember how many times i got the drop on a lonley marine or 2, by cloackign and sitting on the ceiling try it
I think that easily one of the largest advantages of being an alien involves the element of numbers and confusion.
As a skulk, I am a recon FIEND. Before I even attack anything, I am sure to parasite every single building the marines have. I also usually parasite the marines that are in the base by scampering into a doorway, firing off a little bacteria, then scampering away. Nothing like knowing you're a moving target for every alien on the map, and that you already have a skulk stalking your every move to put a marine on edge...
Then, all I have to do is hang around in a dark hallway/doorway, and wait for a marine I have parasited to wonder a little too near. Attacking/killing this marine can be extremely off-setting to him and his teammates...since most of them are parasited, none of them know whether they are being stalked by 1 skulk or 5. Thinking that there is only 1 skulk can get them quickly killed, since when I die, my reinforcements will quickly dcome to replace me. And when they overestimate the number of skulks (i.e. I am alone), my friends can be busy building stuff.
I almost always know what the marines are doing, when they are doing it, and where they are doing it, thanks to parasite...I think I'm one of the only players who use the skulk for scouting purposes (even though he is supposedly the "scout" class). I put parasiting marines ahead of killing them; that way, I can be in complete control over the situation - I always know when the marine is vulnerable, and the marine doesn't even know if I am stalking him. Plus, once the marines get heavy armor, parasiting REALLY comes in handy. Parasite a player with heavy armor, run away before he can kill you, then you and your teammates can avoid that strong player wherever he goes.
I see skulking almost as a Metal Gear Solid sort of ordeal...know where thy enemies are, don't clue them into your whereabouts (killing is quite a good way to do that), if you have to kill, do it by surprise - and if you do all of the above, eventually, a situation will present itself where the Command Center is left totally and completely unguarded, completely ready for the eating =). And I can assure you, in every one of the 10 games in which I have eaten the command center, the marines lose. Bad.
Chopper Dave: the hive mind appreciates your efforts, greatly.
I LOVE having recon guys. I always forget about that parasite ability, but I just LOVE when I am able to see all those suckers, erm...marines...running around, and then just LEAPING OUT FROM NOWHERE AND TEARING THEM APART! HAHAHAHAH! Damn, I love them Kharaa.
One thing to note: that motion sensor that the marines have is freaking GOOD. Holy crap, my friend had a LMG, and the motion sensor thingy on. He got SO many kills with it. It's really damn good. Almost too good, I would say.
<!--QuoteBegin--Tgire+Nov 1 2002, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tgire @ Nov 1 2002, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lerk: To be honest, I haven't had much experience with the lerk yet. However, I can offer two pieces of advice: don't fire while flying if you can help it, and use umbra all the time.
Fade: Ok, the Fade is, to be honest, underpowered. However, it is still darn useful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagrea with your statements if you have lvl3 adrenalin.
With it fades become awsome attack units. The acid rocket and bilebomb make them the best assault units available to the aliens.
lvl3 adren also lets lerks fly and shoot spikes at the same time, have to be carfull though if you want to use something like umbra or spore.
I haven't read the 16 pages of the thread, but from what I could read most ppl think that Aliens can't do anything versus marines... I think that this is totaly untrue! Having played Alien almost every games I have won almost EVERY game I played with alien. I often saw the "marine building tons of turrets in the 3rd hive senario" and it's not all that bad. If you can get some good team work and get some fade with lerk for umbra and gorge to heal you can clear it. It might take some time but I have managed to get 3rd hive back quite often. About the first post of the thread saying Fades are underpowered, I find that to be wrong. I got 48-18 in a game only going Fade and not getting Onos (one of those games where humans camp 3rd hive) I don't think that melee is weak. I have beaten groups of 3 marines with skulk with bite without too much trouble... You only have to get them from behind or by surprise. That wall climb isn't there for nothing. One of the most useful thing I found with Aliens for mid and late game is their Defense Chambers! 3 or 4 Defense Chambers set at the right place for quick healing can GREATLY help. Kill a few turrets, run back to heal, go kill some more turrets. Sentries aren't so hard to kill... and in 1.01 it's even easier since if you can destroy the turret generator all the turrets go offline. Sometimes you can even go hide behind the generator to set yourself in an angle where the turrets can't hit you! Anyway it tell you that if you are a new player you should pick marines. And I agree with that... Aliens can be very strong but they are hard to play and require some practice. I'm sure once everyone get used to the game we'll see less complains about those poor Aliens... <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Little more field experiance today and I have to say the Aliens and Marines are fairly well balanced. As a Fade, the so called underpowered Kharaa, I cut a bloody swath through the Marines. I would go in, rip on or two up and then Blink in. I destroyed two bases, loaded with turrets like that. And while the Marines tried to stop me, my team ripped into them.
Whoo boy... I didn't even know the patch had been released, until a 2 on 1 game of me VS some marines became a 3 on 1 game of me VS some marines. I had 2 hives, and the guy just started building a turret factory in one of my hive rooms. Lucky I'd gotten much better at being a sneaky ninja-skulk... I managed to devour that damn factory SO many times... they kept building it... but hiding behind it and eating it now actually WORKS!
Anyway, because it was 3 against 1, I couldn't expand. But I held them off for like an hour while they kept trying to build a turret factory near my hive! Finally, a second alien joined, and we eventually won the day!
I did this jump-behind-the-thing-being-guarded-and-eat-it technique before, as an alien, because sometimes you want to get their enegry maker down and you don't care if you have to die in the process, so you just dash past the turrets, get behind the thing, and eat up. But when you'd finish it off... it stops blocking bullets, the guns gib you, and you type IT WAS WORTH IT publicly while waiting to respawn. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
At least, that was before the patch. Now I just hop behind the turret factory, eat it, and watch nano-gridlock save my sorry hide. ^_^
I might add that planting turret factories flush against walls, or placing turrets BEHIND targets like resource collecters is an excellent way to beat my tactic, but not many marine commanders seem to know it yet.
If you REALLY want to balance this technique (after all, it basically shuts down an ENTIRE room's defenses if you're successful) you might consider keeping the turrets active for like 1-2 seconds after the factory dies. that way at least the guy who ate the factory would probably die and he wouldn't be able to systematically disable the entire room's defenses. There's a good chance the marines could get there in time to build another factory.
I don't recommend increasing the armor value of the turret factory, but I guess you might consider it. The marines could always start putting up TWO turret factories in an area, too, you know.
Anyway, with the release of the patch, aliens have started winning more. Did you change things TOO much? We'll see. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok well i have been playing the game allmost non stop sense it has come out, and I have to say one thing GAME IS BALANCED! the thing about aliens is they take more skill than marines, the marine gameplay is very similar to many other half life mods (cs, fire arms, dod, ect..) so basically when the game was first releasead the marines had more practice, now that a week has gone by alien players are becoming far more skilled. Sure if a heavy marine with a hmg is shooting you your not gana live very long, but the idea of aliens is to be sneaky (exp onos of course) so dont let them shoot u until u can hit them. Also u gata remeber that each alien has skills that work in different situations, sure u need 3 hives to get bile bomb, or xenoside, but that is not the only way to take out turrets. All u need is 2-3 skults to take out a room of 6 turrets or so, just circle the turret wile hitting it and it will never hit u (idealy). Another thing i see is skulks going head to head with heavy marines with heavy machine guns late in the game (bad idea is all i can say) of course a heavy marine is gana kill u, his equiptment cost 50 recroces and you only cost 4. Again when u play aliens u gata be stealthy, especially if u only have one hive and the marines got heavy armour and heavy guns, just work together, get like 3 skults together, wait in a corncer and when the marines walk through the door and head down the hall (back to u) jump em, That is how u are supose to play aliens. Though if you do have 2 hives the entire strategy changes, now u can go toe toe with any marine force because of umbra, umbra blocks like 5 out of 6 bullets, basically that makes and marine weapon (except grenalde laucnher) usless. Now if u have umbra all u need is a fade and a lerk to clear a whole hive filled with turrets, just put umbra on the turrets and let the fade do the rest.
OK this is stupid. game is not balance so all you lovers of aliens shut the hell up. 1 fade should not be able to take out a army. 1 <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> Maybe humans will fuss aliens will flame. I play both sides. Now my fav class is to easy UGH. STFU want to try vs me and my clan? we will even give u a hive to take. all we need is fade.
It's amazing how you people can rely on blink to work. I've figured out that you have to jump and crouch to blink successfully, but still... I've gotten blinked into a wall about a BILLION times, same with redemption, I get so **obscenity** sometimes.... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, one more thing. Bile bomb can't seem to kill sentries whn I've tried. Me and a friend were bombing a group of about 5 sentries NON-STOP for a long time(lvl 3 bile of course) and it didn't do a frikin thing. Everyone talks about ramboing a bunch of sentries, yet two of us with lvl 3 bile cant take out one of a group of five, interesting... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have found skulks and onos WAY more effective than fades personally...
<!--QuoteBegin--NightShade+Nov 7 2002, 03:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightShade @ Nov 7 2002, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OK this is stupid. game is not balance so all you lovers of aliens shut the hell up. 1 fade should not be able to take out a army. 1 <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> Maybe humans will fuss aliens will flame. I play both sides. Now my fav class is to easy UGH. STFU want to try vs me and my clan? we will even give u a hive to take. all we need is fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um i mainly play <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> ..... If u got owned by a fade its your own damn fault, grab some heavy armour and a hmg and go take the fight to him, alost if u work in a group of like 5 guys u should be able to stand up to fades. Also u need to remember to weld eachother, and not welding is one of the noob marine mistakes. Also u gata remamber that a fade is 44 recorces and if your talking about like 4 standard marines with standard machine guns, well that is 0 resorces. Also if those 4 marines know what they are doing they can own that lone fade.
<!--QuoteBegin--Chopper Dave+Nov 7 2002, 03:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chopper Dave @ Nov 7 2002, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And I can assure you, in every one of the 10 games in which I have eaten the command center, the marines lose. Bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Coz they didn´t know how to build a second one, to prevent that situation. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
great strategy my friend came up with....you can always just blink past turrets if you are fade, and you can hide behind the turret factory so the turrets end up shooting the factory and that acts as your shield..works well, i just blinked passed a halway filled with turrets.
Comments
Wilko
But if they use the command console, the commander can actually locate them quickly. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You can jump to the last comm message.
However, the aliens, in my opinion, are woefully underbalanced. I have no problem with marines filling rooms full of turrets if the aliens have some way to counter them effectively. The problem is that if the marines play even remotely competently, there is no way to counter them. Yes yes, we've all heard circle strafe, tower healing, blah blah blah.. the fact is that when you're faced with 5 turrets, those don't work.
So, your answer to this is to make the resources much more limited so everything effectively costs more.. thus, the aliens will pretty much have an absurd amount of resources compared to the marines? I've seen how hard it is to make it to Onos, and I've seen how hard it is to take one down, especially with a 2 resource usage for redemption. Now, if it costs the marines about all the resources on the map just to get one guy in heavy armor and with an HMG who might take down the onos if its not umbra'd, how balanced will that be?
The fact is, in this situation I would expect the marines to build firebases of sentry turrets. I would expect them to use alot of resources, because frankly if those 'starbases and starships' are worth so damn much money, what's a little expenditure? In fact, i'd expect that the marines would probably bring a command console, a pair of turrets, a spawnpoint, and an armory to any engagement.. its not like the marines don't know how powerful the Kharaa can get...
The problem is that BileBomb, which I feel is effective against turrets for the most part, is too far up the tree. 3 hives is too much to expect for the aliens to achieve before the marines bust into one hive room and setup turret defenses, and I think its unfair of the marines to limit them to basically LMG's and no armor.
At any rate, great mod, and kudo's to the authors AND the testers.. I'm sure you find it balanced, especially since you've had alot of skill and practice at it. Unfortunately, for those of us who haven't, well, it seems very UNBALANCED. And frankly, I don't know if people will be willing to play it long enough for them to gain the experience necessary to make it balanced. I guess a good rule of thumb is that if its not balanced for people who just pick up the game on both sides, its not balanced. This is a GREAT mod, and has a GREAT potential, but I'm afraid it won't pick up without some drastic changes to make the aliens and marines a bit more even in force. The only time I've seen the aliens win has either been through complete marine stupidity or an initial bumrush that got the command console or spawnpoint leaving the marines dead in the water a minute into the game. Anything else is pretty much failure.. once marines get turrets up in their base.
As for the resources.. well, like I said.. it won't balance it much to just flip the coin and make the aliens the easy race to play. The aliens shoudln't be difficult to play, and it shoudln't take alot of skill. Perhaps widening the area of effect for their melee attacks so they don't have to be straight on would help.. I can leap over alot of turret walls.
I tell you, I enjoy the mod, but I don't think people will give it much longer. Already I'm starting to notice our low-ping test server(by low ping I mean sub-100 ping for everyone) is sitting empty alot. its not public, I grant you, but the password is posted on a fairly popular board and 3 days ago it was constantly full. Maybe fixing the resources will fix the problem and I could be full of crap. But in my mind, I don't see how it could possibly help. Allowing FF would probably help more, at least with Grenade spam and turret walls. If the turrets might mow you down instead of the alien, at least you wouldn't see marines guarding lots and lots of turrets, or you could cause the turrets to gun them down.
They are good at hit and runs(go in, hit something, go back to Defense, heal, repeat) and sneaky stuff. However, most people(Myself included) just don't like to play that way. It's great when the Aliens know what they are doing but most of the time people are running at me like a refular run and gun game. <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> = dead most of the time since most players just run at you over and over hoping to get around you.
I've seen one Onos and a Skulk beat the fark out of the Marines. The Skulk ran past the turrets at our base and got to the Command. He killed the Commander and the pod, thus screwing us. Then one or two Onos would raid the turrets(they were thicker than congealed blood in most bases), kill one of us and injure a turret, run off. Back and forth, back and forth. Finally the Onos had fragged the guy with the Welder and we couldn't find it. With no commander...... we got screwed ROYALLY.
Overall I'd say it's fairly balanced with one exception. Damn it, it's hard to bit someone. You move incredibly fast and they probably move at roughly medium speed. I zip by them before I can bite. Maybe I'm just slow...
The best Alien tactic i've seen was 5 skulks zerging the marine base, and the rest (4) digging in, building defenses.
The aliens managed to catch the marines by surprise and chewed up their main base since they were all ex-CSers out blasting the hive (and getting killed)
Suddenly, the marines had only the commander left, and the infantry spawn was gone....
(now the marines actually came back from that, but that's a different story)
When a single skulk can run into the marine base at the start of the game and kill 4 marines and a spawn point before getting killed.. I dont think you can say aliens are too weak.
On melee attacks.. I've found the best method is to hop as you hit people. There seems to be locational damage and a chest bite usually kills instantly or in two hits. Still, a scream or grunt sound wouldn't go amiss for telling us when we are hitting. If you run into a big group of marines as a skulk (and dont have xenocide) the best idea is to hop around like a jack russel terrier on acid biting the hell out of everything. It takes a bit of luck but in most cases you'll kill at least two of them.
On stealth - silence. silence silence silence silence. Its as good as level 3 cloaking if you use it right. And the Onos with level 3 stealth and level 3 silence is a very amusing onos to play indeed. I've never heard any alien make noises randomly..
I think that was, what was ruining the gameplay all the way. Along with the noobs, who do not look for tips, written by teammates.
Teacher: "What is this, children?" [holds up picture: <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
Children: [yelling] "An evolved onos with level 3 carapace upgrades!"
Teacher: "Right! And what is this?" [holds up picture: <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
Children: [yelling] "A fully trained frontiersman with level 2 armor, a compressed-air type model grenade launcher, and standard issue military-grade handun!"
Teacher: "Very good!"
first 2 times i didnt have a clue what was going on and we got hammered (massively outnumbered both times)
3rd time was different, joined the server late, so we were losing, had 2 clan mates on my team too. we got all the hives while providing some covering attacks. got the level 3 evos and nearly everyone became an <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
i personally love the onos, as u can guess, and got the highest alien score with mine, found regeneration and speed to be great, dash into a room, take out 2 marines and a machine gun then run out, regenerate, charge back in, repeat til room is clear.
the BEST weapon for an alien, is to scare the crap out of the marines, i've held off 3 marines by scampering around the doorway of a room they wanted to get in, and snapping at them a lot and jumping if one popped through, they really didnt like it and backed off, shooting now and again through the door, this gave us time to build defences.
love the mod
brilliant, its a piece of art.
will stay for a long time.
Onos
-=Up The Tribe!!!=-
see that, thats what i have to say about aliens
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
but see that, they can rape the average marine ne day
u know how they say, u cant just go out there rambo style
which was basically a cs thing, well translate that into an alien thing guys
a marine can go out there and slaughter a group of aliens basically if he knows what hes doing
but aliens have to use there skills, thats why they are given them
cloaking is the number one ability for aliens, most ppl will agree
STEALTH is the key word when it comes to this game
especially aliens
i cant remember how many times i got the drop on a lonley marine or 2, by cloackign and sitting on the ceiling
try it
As a skulk, I am a recon FIEND. Before I even attack anything, I am sure to parasite every single building the marines have. I also usually parasite the marines that are in the base by scampering into a doorway, firing off a little bacteria, then scampering away. Nothing like knowing you're a moving target for every alien on the map, and that you already have a skulk stalking your every move to put a marine on edge...
Then, all I have to do is hang around in a dark hallway/doorway, and wait for a marine I have parasited to wonder a little too near. Attacking/killing this marine can be extremely off-setting to him and his teammates...since most of them are parasited, none of them know whether they are being stalked by 1 skulk or 5. Thinking that there is only 1 skulk can get them quickly killed, since when I die, my reinforcements will quickly dcome to replace me. And when they overestimate the number of skulks (i.e. I am alone), my friends can be busy building stuff.
I almost always know what the marines are doing, when they are doing it, and where they are doing it, thanks to parasite...I think I'm one of the only players who use the skulk for scouting purposes (even though he is supposedly the "scout" class). I put parasiting marines ahead of killing them; that way, I can be in complete control over the situation - I always know when the marine is vulnerable, and the marine doesn't even know if I am stalking him. Plus, once the marines get heavy armor, parasiting REALLY comes in handy. Parasite a player with heavy armor, run away before he can kill you, then you and your teammates can avoid that strong player wherever he goes.
I see skulking almost as a Metal Gear Solid sort of ordeal...know where thy enemies are, don't clue them into your whereabouts (killing is quite a good way to do that), if you have to kill, do it by surprise - and if you do all of the above, eventually, a situation will present itself where the Command Center is left totally and completely unguarded, completely ready for the eating =). And I can assure you, in every one of the 10 games in which I have eaten the command center, the marines lose. Bad.
I LOVE having recon guys. I always forget about that parasite ability, but I just LOVE when I am able to see all those suckers, erm...marines...running around, and then just LEAPING OUT FROM NOWHERE AND TEARING THEM APART! HAHAHAHAH! Damn, I love them Kharaa.
One thing to note: that motion sensor that the marines have is freaking GOOD. Holy crap, my friend had a LMG, and the motion sensor thingy on. He got SO many kills with it. It's really damn good. Almost too good, I would say.
STRATEGY
'Nuff Said
-The Preacher
Lerk:
To be honest, I haven't had much experience with the lerk yet. However, I can offer two pieces of advice: don't fire while flying if you can help it, and use umbra all the time.
Fade: Ok, the Fade is, to be honest, underpowered. However, it is still darn useful.
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I disagrea with your statements if you have lvl3 adrenalin.
With it fades become awsome attack units. The acid rocket and bilebomb make them the best assault units available to the aliens.
lvl3 adren also lets lerks fly and shoot spikes at the same time, have to be carfull though if you want to use something like umbra or spore.
I often saw the "marine building tons of turrets in the 3rd hive senario" and it's not all that bad. If you can get some good team work and get some fade with lerk for umbra and gorge to heal you can clear it. It might take some time but I have managed to get 3rd hive back quite often.
About the first post of the thread saying Fades are underpowered, I find that to be wrong. I got 48-18 in a game only going Fade and not getting Onos (one of those games where humans camp 3rd hive)
I don't think that melee is weak. I have beaten groups of 3 marines with skulk with bite without too much trouble... You only have to get them from behind or by surprise. That wall climb isn't there for nothing.
One of the most useful thing I found with Aliens for mid and late game is their Defense Chambers! 3 or 4 Defense Chambers set at the right place for quick healing can GREATLY help. Kill a few turrets, run back to heal, go kill some more turrets. Sentries aren't so hard to kill... and in 1.01 it's even easier since if you can destroy the turret generator all the turrets go offline. Sometimes you can even go hide behind the generator to set yourself in an angle where the turrets can't hit you!
Anyway it tell you that if you are a new player you should pick marines. And I agree with that... Aliens can be very strong but they are hard to play and require some practice. I'm sure once everyone get used to the game we'll see less complains about those poor Aliens... <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, because it was 3 against 1, I couldn't expand. But I held them off for like an hour while they kept trying to build a turret factory near my hive! Finally, a second alien joined, and we eventually won the day!
I did this jump-behind-the-thing-being-guarded-and-eat-it technique before, as an alien, because sometimes you want to get their enegry maker down and you don't care if you have to die in the process, so you just dash past the turrets, get behind the thing, and eat up. But when you'd finish it off... it stops blocking bullets, the guns gib you, and you type IT WAS WORTH IT publicly while waiting to respawn. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
At least, that was before the patch. Now I just hop behind the turret factory, eat it, and watch nano-gridlock save my sorry hide. ^_^
I might add that planting turret factories flush against walls, or placing turrets BEHIND targets like resource collecters is an excellent way to beat my tactic, but not many marine commanders seem to know it yet.
If you REALLY want to balance this technique (after all, it basically shuts down an ENTIRE room's defenses if you're successful) you might consider keeping the turrets active for like 1-2 seconds after the factory dies. that way at least the guy who ate the factory would probably die and he wouldn't be able to systematically disable the entire room's defenses. There's a good chance the marines could get there in time to build another factory.
I don't recommend increasing the armor value of the turret factory, but I guess you might consider it. The marines could always start putting up TWO turret factories in an area, too, you know.
Anyway, with the release of the patch, aliens have started winning more. Did you change things TOO much? We'll see. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marines Vs Marines....... I think that would rock!
Well that is basically my 2 cents
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> = dead marine
(see the topic about umbra being too powerful).
I've figured out that you have to jump and crouch to blink successfully, but still... I've gotten blinked into a wall about a BILLION times, same with redemption, I get so **obscenity** sometimes.... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, one more thing. Bile bomb can't seem to kill sentries whn I've tried. Me and a friend were bombing a group of about 5 sentries NON-STOP for a long time(lvl 3 bile of course) and it didn't do a frikin thing. Everyone talks about ramboing a bunch of sentries, yet two of us with lvl 3 bile cant take out one of a group of five, interesting... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have found skulks and onos WAY more effective than fades personally...
Um i mainly play <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> ..... If u got owned by a fade its your own damn fault, grab some heavy armour and a hmg and go take the fight to him, alost if u work in a group of like 5 guys u should be able to stand up to fades. Also u need to remember to weld eachother, and not welding is one of the noob marine mistakes. Also u gata remamber that a fade is 44 recorces and if your talking about like 4 standard marines with standard machine guns, well that is 0 resorces. Also if those 4 marines know what they are doing they can own that lone fade.
Coz they didn´t know how to build a second one, to prevent that situation. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->