Current Ns Bias Meter
MarineAnimal
Join Date: 2004-05-14 Member: 28676Members
Join Date: 2004-05-14 Member: 28676Members
Comments
The earlygame is completely a toss-up. This is the most map-dependant time, as well as the most important overall time period. Aliens that know how to bring the fight to their turf (close-quarters, OC's) and know not to charge head-on will put up an ugly fight.
The marine midgame has the edge unless an effective fade or two come along and manage not to get killed. It's the level2 weaponry in combination with the shotguns that will put aliens out of business. Actually, if fades don't show up, it only takes a little extra time and a second hive to bring the onos into play. A smart hive two onos is near unstoppable right now.
Marine and alien endgame is tossed up, and completely depends on where the fighting is. If the fighting is in a confused, packed in place (think keyhole in eclipse or cold turn in ayumi), then the aliens only need one hive-two onos to muck things up for the marines. If the battle takes palce in long hallways, like nothing, then the marines have the advantage.
Not accuratly scaled games on the server i play on lately
Early game Marines > Aliens
Early game (fades Hive 1 vs Shotguns) Marines <u><</u> Aliens
Mid game( Fades Hive 2 Vs HMG/Shotgun/GL) Marines > Aliens
*Mid game (Fades hive 2/ 1-2 Onos vs. HMG/SG/GL/JP) Marines <u>></u> Aliens
*Mid game (Fades hive 2/ 1-2 Onos vs. HMG/SG/GL/HA) Marines < Aliens
Late game (hive 1 aliens vs HMG/SG/GL/JP/HA) Marines > Aliens
Late game (hive 3 aliens vs HMG/JP/SG/GL/HA/Etc) Marines < Aliens
1. Painfully slow res flow for aliens in large games.
2. Permanent upgrades for marines means larger marine teams become more cost-efficient. Alien upgrades become less cost-efficient.
3. Marines can shorten their spawn time by building more IPs. Aliens are stuck with a long spawn queue.
4. Marines can focus their firepower more easily.
5. The bigger the team, the less painful the loss of a player to the command chair. (A dedicated commander hurts in a 4v4, but in a 12v12, no biggie)
Then don't let them shoot you. I see this complaint a lot, and my first impression is because people aren't doing things right. Try the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showforum=21' target='_blank'>Kharaa strategy forums</a>, there are plenty of good topics on how to ambush and hide from the "all-powerful" LMG.
......
thats just like saying dont let aliens get a gorge.. its impossible....
and anout the hitbox deal, when will the devs chance back skulks ap from 10 to 20?
Its BNNE many MONTHS, i think we all know how to aim at a skulk by now.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>a) OC's are poop.
-> Leads to largely marine-ravaged hallways.
b) Third hive abilities are poop.
-> Thus the third hive has no really apparent use beside the increased spawn and armor.
c) Lerks die to one sg blast.
-> Makes them a risky deal. Then there has been talk about insta-gib bug (hate that).
d) Onos is useless at one hive. In case you are wondering: this is poop too.
-> No retaking very strong outposts, easy to lose a lot of res for nothing.
e) Gorges gain res very slow, when they are supposed to be a builder class (as far as there is any "class" distinction between the aliens). Goo.
-> Alien advance slowed down.</span>
So yeah; a skilled marine team is more than likely to win a as skilled alien team. That is what I think.
Then don't let them shoot you. I see this complaint a lot, and my first impression is because people aren't doing things right. Try the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showforum=21' target='_blank'>Kharaa strategy forums</a>, there are plenty of good topics on how to ambush and hide from the "all-powerful" LMG. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you ever played against good marines? If they spot you, you are dead meat., it (almost) doesnt matter how close you are.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>a) OC's are poop.
-> Leads to largely marine-ravaged hallways.
b) Third hive abilities are poop.
-> Thus the third hive has no really apparent use beside the increased spawn and armor.
c) Lerks die to one sg blast.
-> Makes them a risky deal. Then there has been talk about insta-gib bug (hate that).
d) Onos is useless at one hive. In case you are wondering: this is poop too.
-> No retaking very strong outposts, easy to lose a lot of res for nothing.
e) Gorges gain res very slow, when they are supposed to be a builder class (as far as there is any "class" distinction between the aliens). Goo.
-> Alien advance slowed down.</span>
So yeah; a skilled marine team is more than likely to win a as skilled alien team. That is what I think. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
a) Yes, they are not good, but not useless!
b) With a third hive marines get normally owned
c) If they die to 1 sg-blast then dont attackt then, you have spores! Lerks are really good in this version.
d) Yea, thats because a onse was a 3hive lifeform in 1.04, it should never be that strong with one hive.
e) In old versions gorges gained faster res than other lifeforms, but it ended up with ppl using the res to go fade/onos, so we have to live with that.
All in all I think Marines are stronger in this version, but it also depends on the map and what tactic aliens are using on it. (I dont have to say that 10vs10 games are unbalenced anyway)
Edit: I do usually go alien, and I usually Gorge. I end up going Lerk/Fade after this, as long as 3-4 people drop RT's, we're fine.
Yet 6 vs 6 is the <i>minimum</i> I play NS classic at.
Any less than that, and I just don't find it fun because it seems there's never a team-mate around and the maps are huge. It's no wonder bunnyhopping is considered a necessity. It'd be boring as stink otherwise. Being able to move quickly to where the action is is the only thing that would keep it interesting. Which could be why I don't like smaller games.. I can't hop, so I'm left just waddling my gorgey butt from place to place on my own with nothing to do.
Yet 6 vs 6 is the <i>minimum</i> I play NS classic at.
Any less than that, and I just don't find it fun because it seems there's never a team-mate around and the maps are huge. It's no wonder bunnyhopping is considered a necessity. It'd be boring as stink otherwise. Being able to move quickly to where the action is is the only thing that would keep it interesting. Which could be why I don't like smaller games.. I can't hop, so I'm left just waddling my gorgey butt from place to place on my own with nothing to do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone can learn how to bhop
Yea, yea; those are the regular arguments, and I do remember how it was in 1.03/4. That is simply how I have perceived the matter, and as long as it stays so, NS belongs to category "poop," IMO. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Are you implying that I hack, or that clanners hack?
If you think I am hacking you are welcome to come down to the CPL this year and test out my hacks for me
In clan games, it's a coin toss, really.
-Marines have 'fewer' targets to contend with. Marines are only concerned with players, OC's, and Hives in well-known locations. Aliens have to contend with Marines, but are forced to dismantle IP's, Comm Chairs, Arms Labs, Proto-Labs, Observatories, Phase Gates, and Turret Factories; all of which can be placed anywhere on the map. It is by far easier find and take down a hive than it is to find and take out the equivalent and more efficient IP's, Arms Lab, Armory, and Comm Chairs (all of which may ver well NOT found in pre-known locations). (I understand RT's are a concern also, but it is an equal matter for both sides, generally)
>>Possible solution: limit the placement of buildings to within a radius of each other. The only buildings that generate this radius out of nowhere is the Comm Chair and Phase Gate. Other buildings except turrets/siege extend ths area. RT's are exempt.
-Marine upgrades are effectively permanant, and effortless to retain. Armory, Arms Lab, Observatory, and Proto-lab 'research' is a one-time cost. A killed marine retains these upgrades (except proto-lab). A killed building can be replaced instantly and placed anywhere on the map, without needing to repay for the research. Marines can recieve the effects of four (MT, Weap, Grenades, Armor) upgrades and retain them throughout death of personnel or destruction of the key building (effectively). This brings their total carryable upgrades to eight (non-lmg weapon, welder, mines, grenades, JP/HA, MT, Armour+, Weap+, MT).
>> Possible solution: Upgrades have to be re-researched if the key building is taken down. For example, if your Arms lab is taken down, you loose weapons and armor upgrades until a replacement is built and re-researched. You can build a second arms lab and the tech remains for as long as there is at least one lab remaining.
-Aliens gather res slowly in larger gamse because of the 'card dealing' distribution
>> possible solution: set Kharaa res towers to supply alien res at a minimum rate equivalent to a 6v6 game: one res per 24 seconds per RT to each alien. This makes alien RT's more efficient in games larger than 6v6 where aliens have to compete with the more efficient marine upgrades. (a 5v5 game would still supply 1 res every 20 sec to each player).
-Motion tracking/Observatories reveal all moving aliens on the overview/mini map, cloaked or otherwise. This is beyond 'Scent of Fear' in that it is both permenant, and the knowledge is shared across all marines via the map overview.
>> possible solution: slow moving cloaked aliens won't show up on the map overview/minimap, but still show up on close range motion tracking. This can help retain the value of sensory chamber networks and cloaking post-MT research, as well as ambush traps in the mid/late game. Thus, cloaking and not moving works in front of marines, and cloaking and moving works behind them (in contrast to a fat red blip showing up behind them on their minimap).
-Comms can easily detect which hive is the starting point of the alien team within moments of sitting in the chair. Marines *probably* should be the ones trying to discern this information, rather than instantly knowing what to immediately lock down. The opportunity to catch early-game hive/rt scouts would give the alien team a reasonable foothold early.
>> Possible solution: The Comm cannot detect any noise from the alien team unless it is within range of a building or player.
Just a few thoughts while I eat lunch.
Are you implying that I hack, or that clanners hack?
If you think I am hacking you are welcome to come down to the CPL this year and test out my hacks for me <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he is implying that bunnyhopping is exploiting, or doing something illegal like hacking.
Yet 6 vs 6 is the <i>minimum</i> I play NS classic at.
Any less than that, and I just don't find it fun because it seems there's never a team-mate around and the maps are huge. It's no wonder bunnyhopping is considered a necessity. It'd be boring as stink otherwise. Being able to move quickly to where the action is is the only thing that would keep it interesting. Which could be why I don't like smaller games.. I can't hop, so I'm left just waddling my gorgey butt from place to place on my own with nothing to do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone can learn how to bhop <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. You're wrong.
Yet 6 vs 6 is the <i>minimum</i> I play NS classic at.
Any less than that, and I just don't find it fun because it seems there's never a team-mate around and the maps are huge. It's no wonder bunnyhopping is considered a necessity. It'd be boring as stink otherwise. Being able to move quickly to where the action is is the only thing that would keep it interesting. Which could be why I don't like smaller games.. I can't hop, so I'm left just waddling my gorgey butt from place to place on my own with nothing to do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone can learn how to bhop <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. You're wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actualy, he's right. Everyone has the ability to learn, makes being a human great doesnt it? If they're any good at it is a simple matter of dedication and technique. Bhopin is a skill just like any other in this game, its just harder to learn, and not so obvious to some. But heaven knows there's enough topics about it, that everyone should be able to learn it.
Yet 6 vs 6 is the <i>minimum</i> I play NS classic at.
Any less than that, and I just don't find it fun because it seems there's never a team-mate around and the maps are huge. It's no wonder bunnyhopping is considered a necessity. It'd be boring as stink otherwise. Being able to move quickly to where the action is is the only thing that would keep it interesting. Which could be why I don't like smaller games.. I can't hop, so I'm left just waddling my gorgey butt from place to place on my own with nothing to do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone can learn how to bhop <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. You're wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actualy, he's right. Everyone has the ability to learn, makes being a human great doesnt it? If they're any good at it is a simple matter of dedication and technique. Bhopin is a skill just like any other in this game, its just harder to learn, and not so obvious to some. But heaven knows there's enough topics about it, that everyone should be able to learn it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. You're wrong as well.
Think hardware.
Think hardware. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How could hardware prevent you from Bhopping correctly?
Hey, they are having a *serious* discussion here! No need to crack it up! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For instance, for those who don't use scripts, they use the mousewheel for jumping. However, people like me who are stuck on GeForce 2 mxs can't get a high fps for the mousewheel to act rapidly. Try to use the pistol with mousewheel on 20-30 fps, it's not fun.