Well.....

SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members Posts: 449
Theres been a lot of posts about the clan scene dying and such. There has been even more arguing over why, finger pointing, and bitching.

I have yet to hear a decent solution so........... I made my own

Get 3-4 people who know ns in and out. Im talking knowing the game as well as any of the top 50 players nowadays. (Theres probably around 150 of those type people so maybe I can find 4 biggrin.gif) At least one of them has to be clanless so they can form a clan.

Then these 4 recruit purely pubbers. Play with them for 1 full preseason and season of cal. Kick em out. They're now done with the program.

Recruit a whole new batch of pubbers.

Repeat.

Basically the point is recruit willing people with time who either are no good or can't/haven't joined a clan for another reason and make them desirable to other clans. Then to release them upon the community to join new clans as they can.

I suspect that a team tutored by higher end players would do very well in omega every season even with winning not being the goal.

Both evil and dn` got to the point they did by initially being taught by top players. Those are the only 2 times i've seen this happen to the degree I mean and both of those teams made it to the top of clan play.

I can get ns server time. I have ventrillo. I can make an irc channel easily enough. And I suspect if I tried I could recruit some tutors.

There would be none of the drama you see in the clan scene now. Winning would be secondary. Any player causing problems is booted. This would be a service to the community.

There would not need to be a player cap. If a whole bunch of people are active we can always just have them scrim eachother.

What do you guys think?

Comments

  • HypergripHypergrip Suspect Germany Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9689Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor Posts: 930
    Sounds like NSdraft to me - wich was a quite good idea.
    zombie.gif
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members Posts: 502
    edited July 2004
    Three posts removed to avoid an early derail.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Admin of Brys Natural Selection Servers (UK)
    #bryns @ qnet - www.brywright.co.uk
    82.138.247.145:27015 -16 man, ns only
    82.138.247.145:27020 -16 man, ns and co
    82.138.247.160:27015 -rG NS (#urbangamer @ qnet)
  • the_holethe_hole Join Date: 2004-01-03 Member: 25019Members, Constellation Posts: 437
    me mustang jink and firewater have talked about it .... too much work...

    and it would take EXCEPTIONALLY long, just for 4 people? Hell it's hard to find one person that actually wants to learn the game and play it profesionally and competitively.
    Ingame Nick:: Prodigy / kfR
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned Posts: 6,498
    edited July 2004
    QUOTE ([SiD)
    Squishy,Jul 3 2004, 04:32 AM] Both evil and dn` got to the point they did by initially being taught by top players. Those are the only 2 times i've seen this happen to the degree I mean and both of those teams made it to the top of clan play.

    Be nice.

    #cri has been taking in pubbers and making them good since #cri first formed.

    OSS has also had some VERY good players go through it's ranks as well.

    In fact, both of these clans, both very old, continue to recruit new players from pubs every once in awhile and continue to make them good.

    Also both these clans continue to do well in competetive play.

    But still, man both dn' or evil never took 'pubbers' and made them good like you suggest in your original post. They may have started off as pubbers, but everyone starts off as pubbers.

    Neither dn' nor evil took in pubbers under their wing to train them. So, yeah I have no clue what you are talking about.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    user posted image user posted image#sci-ns Want decent mini-maps?

    Bad NS clan scene?Pm me on IRC!
  • napinapi Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Members, Constellation Posts: 962
    Forlorn, i think you mis-understood

    he means both Evil and Dn became as good as they are now because top clanners taught them...

    not that they taught other people (i'm not saying they aren't helpful nice people, but thats not what this is about)
    user posted imageuser posted image ... EUPT

    the rookie formally known as shanks
  • IBTIBT Join Date: 2003-10-22 Member: 21879Members Posts: 666
    dont look at me, my clan days are behind.
    Like Forum RP? Enjoy it with us at Final Wish.
    InflatableBeerTent
    165/300
  • God_KillerGod_Killer Join Date: 2004-02-16 Member: 26592Members Posts: 503
    If someone knows ns in and out, I don't think they need training...
    Pure skill shows after less than a 3 weeks, if someone isn't great after one year forget making him a pro.
    My avatar is like sooooo smooth.
  • UKchaosUKchaos Join Date: 2002-08-10 Member: 1132Members Posts: 813
    QUOTE
    If someone knows ns in and out, I don't think they need training...
    Pure skill shows after less than a 3 weeks, if someone isn't great after one year forget making him a pro.


    Based on what?

  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned Posts: 6,498
    QUOTE ([QcBs]God Killer @ Jul 11 2004, 02:38 PM)
    If someone knows ns in and out, I don't think they need training...
    Pure skill shows after less than a 3 weeks, if someone isn't great after one year forget making him a pro.

    Actually everyone is different in the skill aspect so you never know.

    Also if they have 30 fps and 1 year later upgrade to 100 fps I'd say there is still plenty of room for improvement.
    user posted image user posted image#sci-ns Want decent mini-maps?

    Bad NS clan scene?Pm me on IRC!
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members Posts: 449
    QUOTE
    and it would take EXCEPTIONALLY long, just for 4 people? Hell it's hard to find one person that actually wants to learn the game and play it profesionally and competitively.


    You misread something.

    QUOTE
    But still, man both dn' or evil never took 'pubbers' and made them good like you suggest in your original post. They may have started off as pubbers, but everyone starts off as pubbers.


    ? dn was a pub clan until X/0 and Red helpd us out. Evil was a pub clan until dn` helpd them out.

    Every player on both sides came from their home pub. D&S and Evil pub.

    EVERY PLAYER on both teams were pubbers

    QUOTE
    If someone knows ns in and out, I don't think they need training...
    Pure skill shows after less than a 3 weeks, if someone isn't great after one year forget making him a pro.


    What does that have to do with anything? None of the people we would recruit would know the game in and out.

    The only difficulty I see is picking 4 Good players who can put up with nubs to teach them. That may even be impossible considering the level of dedication to ns in top players is and has dropped dramatically but other than that its just a matter of playing with the new guys.

    Only one of the clanners would even have to actually be in the clan. One would have to be leader. The others could just chip in during scrims/practice. And play for their own clans in cal.




  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned Posts: 6,498
    QUOTE
    ? dn was a pub clan until X/0 and Red helpd us out. Evil was a pub clan until dn` helpd them out.

    Every player on both sides came from their home pub. D&S and Evil pub.

    EVERY PLAYER on both teams were pubbers


    Yes, but everyone starts off as a pubber.
    user posted image user posted image#sci-ns Want decent mini-maps?

    Bad NS clan scene?Pm me on IRC!
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members Posts: 449
    edited July 2004
    So? Its much easier to bring in a single pubber then to start a team of pubbers. Either way their both doable.

    All im saying is that if 4 or 5 guys who know the game in and out wanted to spend time on it they could easily train 20-30 players up to cal gamma level in 2 months or less.
  • ZephorZephor Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11547Members, Constellation Posts: 527
    You forget that most of the people who play games are selfish and they would rather go and have some fun than spend hours teaching someone how to play.
    |DL|Zephor^_^
    [NAPT]-IPB Image
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members Posts: 449
    edited July 2004
    QUOTE
    You forget that most of the people who play games are selfish and they would rather go and have some fun than spend hours teaching someone how to play.


    QUOTE
    The only difficulty I see is picking 4 Good players who can put up with nubs to teach them. That may even be impossible considering the level of dedication to ns in top players is and has dropped dramatically but other than that its just a matter of playing with the new guys.


    No I didn't
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned Posts: 6,498
    QUOTE ([SiD]Squishy @ Jul 11 2004, 08:30 PM)
    So? Its much easier to bring in a single pubber then to start a team of pubbers. Either way their both doable.

    All im saying is that if 4 or 5 guys who know the game in and out wanted to spend time on it they could easily train 20-30 players up to cal gamma level in 2 months or less.

    Squishy, I'm mearly contesting this part of your post:

    QUOTE
    Both evil and dn` got to the point they did by initially being taught by top players. Those are the only 2 times i've seen this happen to the degree I mean and both of those teams made it to the top of clan play.


    It just isn't true. EVERYONE starts off as pubbers, and EVERYONE learns by getting their **** kicked.
    user posted image user posted image#sci-ns Want decent mini-maps?

    Bad NS clan scene?Pm me on IRC!
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members Posts: 449
    Im not talking about scrimming. I'm saying that dn` actually went over evils strats with them and played togethor a lot.

    Also dn` asked X/0 a ton of questions after every scrim and is it Pman who was their leader? Would hang out for an hour after a scrim and help us out acouple times a week.
  • evilTurtleevilTurtle Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19178Members Posts: 39
    edited July 2004
    Forlorn,

    Squishy is right we recruited pubbers all the time and made many changes throughout Evil's history. I can give you one name off the top of my head,confused.gif
    his name was evilmonkey (know him?) He was not part of the clan when it started he was brought in while pubbing and if you want me too i can think of about 10 more names for you.


    We also created a branch off of Evil, called EbE, which we placed in ugl to compete and had practices to help them get better, and again all pulled from pubs.

    So unless you were in the clan or you knew us very well you might want to research some stuff before you say too much.


    By the way if you are asking me who am I, I am the co-leader, co-founder of Evil
    and the server admin, me and One started it and i was there with them all the way. Lost time to compete, but always helped out the team, and our pub recruites by teaching them the ways.


    And evil would most of the time go over strats and probs of a match or scrim with the clan they played.

    Thank you
    evilTurtle

    ps
    Squishy thx for the great comment about evil, not too often i see, or have seen any.
  • criogenicscriogenics Join Date: 2003-01-13 Member: 12248Members, Constellation Posts: 218
    I've never turned down anyone for a tryout, if they ask. I also look for players I find potential in on pubs and ask them to get irc and ventrilo. They usually play in scrims for a week and then the clan decides. We've had a lot of unknowns become knows in the NS community (jojoshua, rain, exoity, cloud king, mosis, forlorn etc) . I don't care what you think of my clan, but our track record stands. I feel we try our best to help out the clan community, even though most people consider us bad for scripting, being good, lasting too long, etc.

    Speaking of which, if anyone wants a tryout, feel free to ask me on irc. Forlorn won't bite.
    #cri.ogenics
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members Posts: 449
    Im not critiquing how anyone runs their clans. You run them to win.

    Im talking about forming a clan solely for the purpose of training players and then releasing players once their good enough to go join a new clan.
  • evilTurtleevilTurtle Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19178Members Posts: 39
    I believe that what you propose would make alot of difference and would help a ton.
  • TeKniKaLTeKniKaL Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12802Members Posts: 249
    QUOTE (evilTurtle @ Jul 12 2004, 12:29 AM)


    We also created a branch off of Evil, called EbE, which we placed in ugl to compete and had practices to help them get better, and again all pulled from pubs.


    Amen.
    huh
  • Sexy_ToolSexy_Tool Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21896Members Posts: 31 Advanced user
    erm anyone forgetting Gen3 ? They are a training clan. That's all they do pretty much. To a lesser extent Sinner also did alot of the same kind of training, with the intentions of getting abetter clan up. But instead ppl just left after they got too good for the clan.
    Back to using the name PurePhoenix.
  • SiDSquishySiDSquishy Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21704Members Posts: 449
    I think thats abit different
  • Sexy_ToolSexy_Tool Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21896Members Posts: 31 Advanced user
    Reading this again in 2019 is hilarious because Sinner actually defeated R18 numerous times. They were the top OCE clan at the time.
    Then i went on to commanding for AUS when Tsunamii retired and shut down Sinner.

    In NS2, we -easily- reached top 5 ENSL, i didn't have much alien commander experience and still got us 2 onos eggs, 3 fade eggs, 5 lerk eggs iirc and then i saved 100 res.

    After that i just start making whips for the LOLZ. We ended the game with a massive whip conga-line. We were literally struggling to end the game because they were obvs aimbotting and then the whips started marching into marine spawn and i heard Mouse go "Sexy, what's with the whips?".

    It took me hours to convince the rest of AUS that we had done such a good job of preparing and securing res that we actually had enough left over to create over a dozen whips.
    I don't even remember how many i made, maybe 30? All i remember is the congo-line was literally so long it reached from our hive to marine spawn.

    TL;DR don't ever look at a "Training clan" in a condescending manner. We're USED to losing. A LOT. We learn to adapt.
    Back to using the name PurePhoenix.
    Mouse
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