i dunno what's up with the ns team. the whole friggin NS community wants 1.04 gameplay back. why won't they do it? is it really that much trouble? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ill tell you all something important. i learned this lesson playing many games over the years.
without change, a game will die. why do you think people run out to buy the latest copy of fifa football each year? cause after a year of playing it for a few hours a week, they get bored with it, and they want something close, but different.
ns is the same, cept we dont play it for a few hours a week, we play it for 9 hours a day, 7 days a week. (well, i do <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
do you, in all honesty, think ns would still be played had it not grown, changed, and if you'll excuse the pun, evolved?
look at all the other mods that never changed. ahl, pvk...to name a few. how many people play them now?
barely 300 between them. NS get's tens of thousands, cause we got a dev team who gives a damn.
NS kicks ****, 1.04 was good. but times have changed, and ns has. while i do believe a change to the fundimentals is needed, like knowing who's gonna win in the first 5 mins, a reversion to the 1.04 style is not the way to go. the game would die, the player base would be split.
1.04 still exist's. go play it. leave ns to those who like to change, grow, and learn something new.
I can't understand the desire of people to go back to 1.04. I played 1.04, heck I played right from 1.0, and I am glad that it's gone. Jetpack-hmg rushes were bad, but I also hated the "2 hives mean instant death for marines", with acid spam, web spam, invincible lerks in uber-umbra and Fades that were night impossible to kill thanks to dodgy hitboxes.
3.0 is better in every concieveable way. Even though the game isn't balanced currently, it's far more balanced and fun than 1.04 ever was.
And as for the "epic" feel of games, try games that have 2 hive aliens versus mid to high tech marines. You get some fantastic battles and terrific gameplay.
Who remembers their favorite game 10 years ago? Do you remember it being so awesome and great and so much fun to play? Go back and play it again. It's going to be much worse than you had remembered it.
Who remembers their favorite TV show when they were a kid? I remember liking transformers and x-men back when i was in elementary school. Go download some episodes of them now, and watch it. Pretty terrible right? Bad quality animation, atrocious scripts, cheesy plots.
now let's say that someone thought that those shows and games back then weren't so good, and asked you to go back so they could prove to you that they were terrible. What are you going to say to that? If you're like most people, you'd probably just make up reasons for the old shows and games to be better, just so you could prove that someone wrong.
what most people are doing now is they're saying 1.04 is so great, blah blah. And then there are people who say "play it again, it really wasn't that good" And of course, they play it again, and SURPRISE, they say "it really is that good."
by the way, i too remember all the good times I had in 1.04. However, i'm sure that if i went back and played it, i would vomit. Hitbox bugs, crouching bugs, uncapped marine bhop, jp/hmg'ing the hive in less than 5 minutes... a lot of fun huh?
To get the "epic" games of 1.04 you had to go to a GOOD SERVER which didnt allow JP/HMG rushes. New stragities were tried, etc..
And the reason it was so fun for so many was because it had that feeling for marines that they couldnt win. It felt like they were fighting impossible odds (erm.. these odds on the good servers with no jp/hmg heh) and a losing battle. That mainly because everything on the alien team was really, really good, yes, the fades and onos were overpowered, but that gave a good feeling to the game. There were huge fights over hive two, and once hive two was up and you were fighting fades off with HA/HMG you really felt like you might actually WIN, that tiny spark of HOPE which kept you playing. It was always a constant struggle for marines and the aliens it was always giving that one last push which KEPT PEOPLE PLAYING!
I dont feel like the game plays like that anymore. The onos is now a whimpy hit and runner, along with the fade. There are no longer up front battles between both sides, its always ambushing, you can NEVER charge into a fight up front, even with an onos! You always need some stupid thing on the aliens to give you the edge, like stomp, in order to win. There just isnt any brute force left.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Rennex+Jun 12 2004, 12:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Jun 12 2004, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fortunately Flayra has proven he knows better than to listen to wannabe-nostalgic forum goers. This idea of 'going back to the EPIC days of 1.04' will go the same way of spumbra <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, 3.0 is a living proof of that..
<!--QuoteBegin-Sasuke+Jun 12 2004, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sasuke @ Jun 12 2004, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who remembers their favorite game 10 years ago? Do you remember it being so awesome and great and so much fun to play? Go back and play it again. It's going to be much worse than you had remembered it.
Who remembers their favorite TV show when they were a kid? I remember liking transformers and x-men back when i was in elementary school. Go download some episodes of them now, and watch it. Pretty terrible right? Bad quality animation, atrocious scripts, cheesy plots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ten years ago I was playing Doom and not long after I was playing Doom II. I STILL play these games religiously. The active community around these two games have brought about great additions to the game too... like pretty, "true" 3D engines complete with 3D models (as opposed to the older 2D sprites). I still deathmatch with my clan on these and have for years. We've even participated in several competitions (haven't won any... meh).
The reason? It is a GOOD game.
Ten years ago i was watching one of the greatest cartoons of all time... Garfield. To this day, I can still watch an episode of it and laugh my pants off.
The reason? It is a GOOD show.
The reason I make this point though is not to simply refute the claim that all "good" things old are inherently "bad" later. There's a difference in something that is genuinely GOOD and something that is simply a FAD because of good timing and trendiness... like beanie babies (ugh... i can't believe i actually typed that).
The same holds true for NS. 1.04 isn't inherently bad because it is an old version. Granted it had its problems, but with all the 'fixes' we've seen in the past, I'd rather play the buggy yet usually fun old version rather than the less buggy, but less fun current version. For most of us wanting 1.04 back is more a desire for large, long games rather than the small, short games. Of course 1.04 had problems... none of us deny that. All we ask is that the devs somehow ressurect the spirit found in that version. Like people have been saying, restore the gameplay and fix the bugs... simple as that (OK, not necessarily THAT simple).
The length of the single round is what made it such a unique game to many of us. If not for that, I personally see little difference between NS and say... Tribes. The game concept (FPS + RTS hybrid) really wasn't all THAT unique or innovative. It just had never been presented quite like this nor were the graphics as polished.
Also, take CS for example. Throughout all of its many versions extremely little has changed from a gameplay point of view. It remains one of the most popular games. Case in point: CS evolved over time, NS on the other hand has grown extra limbs, and had a sex change operation twice now. It is one thing to make little changes here and there to enhance the already existing gameplay, but its another thing altogether to actually change the gameplay significantly enough to make it very easily differentiable.
Let me pose a situation where very few would ever have complained about the 'epic'ness of NS... assuming that it is the deliberate intention of the devs to make NS be fast game oriented.
And assume between these "landmark" versions there were minor patches that every so slightly decreased the length of games.
Instead of being gradually eased into new version that were markedly better but still maintaining that "at home" feeling, we were plunged through a time vortex where things looked vaguely familiar, but everything was still different enough to seem strange. In lieu of this, it is really hard for those of us "yearning for home" to really consider the changes better because no matter how good it gets, it won't ever be "home."
Of course reverting back at this stage in the game poses its own problems as well. Those who were introduced to NS in this fast-paced environment, and those who have willingly adapted to their new environments will likely consider what we have now as "home" and really could care less about going "back" because their experiences would be much the same as our own. The only way to really solve the situation is to have both 'home's at the same time. How do we do that? Make several gamemodes that use different rulesets and/or stats to induce the spirit of either form of NS. It is really the only way to hold onto both halves of our split community. Of course is this a good idea from the devs' point of views? Who knows. The introduction of Combat split the community unexpectedly as is and creating yet another devisive force may only disrupt the community further.
So then what's the real answer you may ask? Forget major development on NS and work on NS 2 sometime in the future and use the mistakes and hurdles that were experienced on the way the first time around to give wisdom to the choices made in the future.... which I think is what IS happening anyway... just never really thought about it in these terms before. (i'm sorry if i seem to be thinking as I type... that's just in my nature). So in lieu of the somewhat distant development of an NS 2 that will likely be much more grand and impressive than NS will ever be I pose that we now bury all arguments about how the devs should do this or that with what we have now and just play along.
Damn that was long, but I hope it might have shed some light on both sides of the table.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't understand the desire of people to go back to 1.04. I played 1.04, heck I played right from 1.0, and I am glad that it's gone. Jetpack-hmg rushes were bad, but I also hated the "2 hives mean instant death for marines", with acid spam, web spam, invincible lerks in uber-umbra and Fades that were night impossible to kill thanks to dodgy hitboxes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you even read any of the posts? Fix what was wrong, bring back the syle of gameplay. "hives = forms" = teams taking action instead of milling about waiting for res. The whole team is desperatly trying to siege again and again, or the whole alien team trying to take back a locked hive.
They fixed jp/hmg rushes, so keep that implimented. Give fades the 25 damage acid rocket of now isntead of the 75 of old. The hit boxes are fixed. That with many other changes WILL BRING BACK THE LONG, EPIC GAMES and do away with lameness.
THE GAMES WERE NOT EPIC BECAUSE WE WERE NEW <span style='color:red'>THE GAMES WERE EPIC BECAUSE THEY LASTED MORE THAN 20 MINUTES</span> NOW, IF A GAME LASTS LONGER THAN 20 MINUTES... 95% OF THE TIME THE WINNER HAS ALREADY BEEN DECIDED.
NS is changing. Combat has come, and MORE variations are on their way! Bring back the long NS classic games. Plenty of fast variations on their way.
I swear, folks are just getting so damn picky about NS nowadays. Cant you just appreciate WHAT YOU GOT IN FRONT OF YOU?! BETTER THEN NOTHING AT ALL ISNT IT?!?!?! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Burn at the Gorge... <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 12 2004, 11:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 12 2004, 11:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I swear, folks are just getting so damn picky about NS nowadays. Cant you just appreciate WHAT YOU GOT IN FRONT OF YOU?! BETTER THEN NOTHING AT ALL ISNT IT?!?!?! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Burn at the Gorge... <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They aren't being picky, all they want is to have their favorite game back.
I've read this thread over, and I'd like to throw in my 2 cents:
In version 1.04, the game was very glitchy. Back when I played it, I mostly played the aliens. The aliens suffered from extreme stuck glitches. If the server did not have an unstuck command, they had no chance. I've seen comments about how great the onos used to be...at least now you can jump over a row of offense chambers without almost certainly getting stuck. In fact, due to the unstuck glitches, I promised myself that I would never play onos again. Now that I have returned to NS, to find that the onos is finally playable. Onos is now my favorite form to attack marines with.
But a more stable game is expected with a newer version. In reality, we aren't really arguing about versions here, we're arguing about two different ways to play NS. Half of us like the "long" playing style which happens to be present in the older versions, and the other half prefers the "short" game style found in the newer versions. This isn't about glitches. No one is asking that the developers make onoses horribly glitchy again. So why then is the opposition using this as an argument against the proposal?
The like for the old is not a nostalgia factor. Just like AoF.Palin, I too am a Doom fan, and I can tell you that longing for the days of old has zero to do with people's like for that game. When doom was released, I was a little kid. I was much to young to be playing a game such a doom. I happily played with my batman action figures, ignorant of its existence. I only discovered it later, when I struggled to get it to run on windows xp. I fell in love with the game at first site, even considering the now hidious graphics, and I tried everything to get it to work. I was so happy when I finally found Doomsday that not only ran the game, but let me play it with modern graphics. As soon as I beat episode one, I got a copy of the full game. I learned to make maps and everything, and I hadn't even played it when it was new. Doom is a great game even today.
My point is that newer isn't always better, sometimes it's just different. Some people like it the new way, some like it the old way. These are people who simply prefer the old way. I wouldn't be surprised if, like my experience with Doom, a percentage of the people here who never played 1.04 would like the old style better if they had a chance to play it.
So, which style is better? It's impossible to say. This is clearly a debatable subject, so why not simply make two different styles within the game. There's already combat, which requires completly different maps and such, so surely a third playing mode that differs only slightly (at least from a programming perspective) would be easy to impliment. The style could be changed with a simple server variable and conditionals could be added for health and damages in the game. Even the hive evolve limits could be made with conditionals. This wouldn't affect the people who like the short style in the least: at worst they'd have less servers they could play on. But on the long side, a whole pile of people (including several friends of mine) would return to NS because (here's a quote) "It wouldn't be **** anymore".
If the devs aren't willing to do this, then I'm sure a third party server modifcation would do the trick.
As i have said before people confuse losing with short games. Ok so now a loss is much faster and infinitely harder to turn around. But is that a bad thing? I think shorter games keep ns alive, playing 3 hour games often are not epic just dull. People know the maps...sneaking around is no longer an option and leaves a long slow death, i like speed of 3.0, superior skill and teamwork tell and the finnish depends on these not on the imperfect balance.
Did you even read Kamex's post? as he said it's all a matter of personal preference if people like long games or not. I personally loved the long games and felt they made the game unique. Now, I don't think Ivhad any games last longer than 45mins on the current version and to be honest it's **** me off. I even got kicked off one server because i went comm and tried to relocate at the start to a hive (and no it wasnt the aliens hive). To be honest NS now seems more interested in getting new gamers than in making the game fun which is a shame.
If the next version of NS carries on like this I won't be playing for much longer (and I've been playing since 1.03 btw). So what? I hear you cry. You're only one gamer. Indeed I am but I really do think the devs should worry about alienating the older community. Just my thoughts anyway.
There are 3 servers available for a game that has become much harder to find. There are glitches in this game that players know will never go away because it is no longer being worked on. I have played old versions of games before. It becomes very, very depressing. These three remaining servers are not enough to satisfy the half of the community that is unhappy.
These people want to see a new 1.04. They want to enjoy all the nice graphical features and bug fixes without having to give up the reason they liked NS in the first place.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But on the long side, a whole pile of people (including several friends of mine) would return to NS because (here's a quote) "It wouldn't be **** anymore". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, my friend nick won't play anymore eathire. When we came back to 3.04, he lasted 6 or 7 rounds before he realised ALL rounds were like this now, and unstalled.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man/ Little Coat+Jun 14 2004, 04:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man/ Little Coat @ Jun 14 2004, 04:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gah!
Whiners! Nostalgic ones at that!
1.04 came out two years ago!
What other games do you still play from two years ago?
and how many of them are free!?
GET OVER IT.
jeez.
Mr. Cleveland, don't mind these dunderheads. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> Things from "two years ago" shouldnt be left behind just because their "old." They still had great things about them that were covered by bugs and exploits, and still need uncovering by the community and the developers!
What other games do you still play from two years ago?
and how many of them are free!?
GET OVER IT.
jeez.
Mr. Cleveland, don't mind these dunderheads <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL 2 years ago...I still play Final Fantasy one for nes, i even enjoy the starwars arcade game from 1983...thats more than 20 years. So no, no one has to get over anything in video games.
I stopped playing NS pretty much after 3.0, I hvent got much experience with 4.x but from what I have had, its not good.
1.04 had fun, teamwork, struggles, and a real feeling of accomplishment that you won. When you won, alot of the time it was an epic struggle for both teams, lines back and forth, hives taken and lost, and when you finally got to their last hive and got the bugger down, then came the feeling that you have one, a real feeling of satisfaction. Sure, it had its bug\lame stuff, but overall it was fun and challengeing. NS has evolveed into something different now, not what it used to be. No longer do I feel its fun, nor challenging, more of a mindless bore.
Hell this has been said before several times but Ill say it again, bring back 1.04 style gameplay, just keep all the fixes etc.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Rennex+Jun 10 2004, 02:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Jun 10 2004, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The people who swear that 1.04 was 'epic' remind me of people who jumped on the Yankees bandwagon after they won 3 championships. You want 'epic', give me 5 minutes on a 1.04 server and I'll be in your hive with a jetpack/HMG. So much for epic eh? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You would discard a whole game due to one flaw?
If I offered you a Ferrari with a scratch on the door, do you still want the car?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on... That was a little more than a scratch... It would be closer to say "If I offered you a Ferrari with no engine, and no way to fix it, would you still take the car" I'm sure initially you would, but eventually it would just be taking up space in your driveway.
I play preatty much since the release from 1.4. I liked 1.4, but it was surely fundamentally flawed. Unchaining the evolutions was definately a right decision.
3.0 is imho not so much different from 2.0, its basically the same game ever since. There haven't been any groundbreaking changes that really improved the gameplay ever since, and lets face it, it is still flawed in many ways. I just think of the ever persistent DMS..... It bores me to death, like the ever persistent winning strats back in 1.4 did.
The most fun was IMHO right after the release of 1.4 and 2.0. These times, I really had much fun and great games. Simply because people played more experimental and diverse and tried different tactics. For instance, I had some great sensory first games right after 2.0 release. I loved the new sense. I still love sense first. Not because its effective (it is in fact, with the right team ) but its FUN. It is even fun as marine. Because it SCARED me to hell in these first days, because skulks were so damn unpredictable.
I would kiss Flayras feet if he finally would agree to unchain the chambers, so I could play my style of game without being kicked from the server for "n00bness" because is asked if someone wanna play SC first......
Another big bugger in my book is the onos. I think the onos should be more powerful. I know about balance and all, but it is the wrong way to make the onos cheaper to compensate its weakness. The onos was the most fun in 1.4 on both sides. It was the goddamn Cow of Doom that scared the hell out of the marines. Nowadays, they die like flies to even a singe HMG. Its no fun and no great acomplishment to kill an onos anymore.
Thats my two cent.
I personally havent played much sins the latest update, because it somewhat got boring. That doesn't mean I quit. I just wait for Flayras next changes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its no fun and no great accomplishment to kill an onos anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your damn right, not unfun, but not a big accomplishment like the screams of joy back in the old days, hehe
Yea. Thats it. Thats what i miss the most. The 1.4 last stand feeling.
There are two really cool marine atmospheres in NS.
2.0 early game sense first and 1.4 last stand.
I miss that somehow. Thats why I almost exclusively play alien nowadays. There is no real thrill in marine games anymore. Thats why I want the chambers unchained. you would not just KNOW that they have defense as first chambers, and when you get pawned by a cloaced skulk you would still not be safe on that because next time that bugger could take stealth instead while you try to listen to footsteps.....
meh less whinig...really just because you can't have "epic" games doesn't mean the game is worse...
I've played in quite a few games that have lasted more then 20 minutes and were fun all the way through. It matters where you play and with who at times.
Lastly, I've never played NS comp, doubt I ever will, but I played tribes and tribes 2 comp,and if you want fun, action, epicness try playing a game competively more then just pubbing. You'll realize it's a lot more fun, at least from my experience.
I feel this needs to be said. Ns is an online game and to get anything out of it you need to be playing with people who are (a) good enough to make it a challenge, (b) have fun. When you can get both and ppl have mics..bliss. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Without this there are alot of first person shooters that will be alot more satisfying to play than ns will ever be. If you have a or b though the reverse is true. I haven't played on another ns server for over a year since i found one i love.
<!--QuoteBegin-biggambler+Jun 17 2004, 09:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (biggambler @ Jun 17 2004, 09:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the way i c it is that if thers newer versions with bug fixes and new featurs then why not play it!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure.... as long as they don't change the actual game I've been playing. To me features include the addition of grenades, enhancements to the commander interface or, hell, even unchained chambers... but not how or how fast the game is played on the whole.
<!--QuoteBegin-Deranged+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deranged)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've played in quite a few games that have lasted more then 20 minutes and were fun all the way through. It matters where you play and with who at times.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 20-60 mins is a long game, yes, but 1hr-3hrs is epic. Though I also would agree with your second point. I can actually manage to have fun even on the current version IF i'm playing with the right people (read: people who care more to have fun than to win the game)... and these games are VERY few and far between in my experience.
I say epic games should still be a possibility whether given its own gamemode or restored to the normal NS gameplay style. The Devs (or some third party given dev rights to the current iteration) SHOULD be able to pull something like that off. I'd also say we should upgrade the community's ability to have fun and its overall sportsmanship. Unfortunately the devs can't do a damned thing about that.
Comments
i dunno what's up with the ns team. the whole friggin NS community wants 1.04 gameplay back. why won't they do it? is it really that much trouble? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
without change, a game will die. why do you think people run out to buy the latest copy of fifa football each year? cause after a year of playing it for a few hours a week, they get bored with it, and they want something close, but different.
ns is the same, cept we dont play it for a few hours a week, we play it for 9 hours a day, 7 days a week. (well, i do <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
do you, in all honesty, think ns would still be played had it not grown, changed, and if you'll excuse the pun, evolved?
look at all the other mods that never changed. ahl, pvk...to name a few. how many people play them now?
barely 300 between them. NS get's tens of thousands, cause we got a dev team who gives a damn.
NS kicks ****, 1.04 was good. but times have changed, and ns has. while i do believe a change to the fundimentals is needed, like knowing who's gonna win in the first 5 mins, a reversion to the 1.04 style is not the way to go. the game would die, the player base would be split.
1.04 still exist's. go play it. leave ns to those who like to change, grow, and learn something new.
*drops his 2 cents into the hat and walks off*
3.0 is better in every concieveable way. Even though the game isn't balanced currently, it's far more balanced and fun than 1.04 ever was.
And as for the "epic" feel of games, try games that have 2 hive aliens versus mid to high tech marines. You get some fantastic battles and terrific gameplay.
to bad there was alot of bad 0.o
Who remembers their favorite game 10 years ago? Do you remember it being so awesome and great and so much fun to play? Go back and play it again. It's going to be much worse than you had remembered it.
Who remembers their favorite TV show when they were a kid? I remember liking transformers and x-men back when i was in elementary school. Go download some episodes of them now, and watch it. Pretty terrible right? Bad quality animation, atrocious scripts, cheesy plots.
now let's say that someone thought that those shows and games back then weren't so good, and asked you to go back so they could prove to you that they were terrible. What are you going to say to that? If you're like most people, you'd probably just make up reasons for the old shows and games to be better, just so you could prove that someone wrong.
what most people are doing now is they're saying 1.04 is so great, blah blah. And then there are people who say "play it again, it really wasn't that good" And of course, they play it again, and SURPRISE, they say "it really is that good."
by the way, i too remember all the good times I had in 1.04. However, i'm sure that if i went back and played it, i would vomit. Hitbox bugs, crouching bugs, uncapped marine bhop, jp/hmg'ing the hive in less than 5 minutes... a lot of fun huh?
To get the "epic" games of 1.04 you had to go to a GOOD SERVER which didnt allow JP/HMG rushes. New stragities were tried, etc..
And the reason it was so fun for so many was because it had that feeling for marines that they couldnt win. It felt like they were fighting impossible odds (erm.. these odds on the good servers with no jp/hmg heh) and a losing battle. That mainly because everything on the alien team was really, really good, yes, the fades and onos were overpowered, but that gave a good feeling to the game. There were huge fights over hive two, and once hive two was up and you were fighting fades off with HA/HMG you really felt like you might actually WIN, that tiny spark of HOPE which kept you playing. It was always a constant struggle for marines and the aliens it was always giving that one last push which KEPT PEOPLE PLAYING!
I dont feel like the game plays like that anymore. The onos is now a whimpy hit and runner, along with the fade. There are no longer up front battles between both sides, its always ambushing, you can NEVER charge into a fight up front, even with an onos! You always need some stupid thing on the aliens to give you the edge, like stomp, in order to win. There just isnt any brute force left.
I'm the 1.04 lover. Leave that to me.
Yeah, 3.0 is a living proof of that..
Who remembers their favorite TV show when they were a kid? I remember liking transformers and x-men back when i was in elementary school. Go download some episodes of them now, and watch it. Pretty terrible right? Bad quality animation, atrocious scripts, cheesy plots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ten years ago I was playing Doom and not long after I was playing Doom II. I STILL play these games religiously. The active community around these two games have brought about great additions to the game too... like pretty, "true" 3D engines complete with 3D models (as opposed to the older 2D sprites). I still deathmatch with my clan on these and have for years. We've even participated in several competitions (haven't won any... meh).
The reason? It is a GOOD game.
Ten years ago i was watching one of the greatest cartoons of all time... Garfield. To this day, I can still watch an episode of it and laugh my pants off.
The reason? It is a GOOD show.
The reason I make this point though is not to simply refute the claim that all "good" things old are inherently "bad" later. There's a difference in something that is genuinely GOOD and something that is simply a FAD because of good timing and trendiness... like beanie babies (ugh... i can't believe i actually typed that).
The same holds true for NS. 1.04 isn't inherently bad because it is an old version. Granted it had its problems, but with all the 'fixes' we've seen in the past, I'd rather play the buggy yet usually fun old version rather than the less buggy, but less fun current version. For most of us wanting 1.04 back is more a desire for large, long games rather than the small, short games. Of course 1.04 had problems... none of us deny that. All we ask is that the devs somehow ressurect the spirit found in that version. Like people have been saying, restore the gameplay and fix the bugs... simple as that (OK, not necessarily THAT simple).
The length of the single round is what made it such a unique game to many of us. If not for that, I personally see little difference between NS and say... Tribes. The game concept (FPS + RTS hybrid) really wasn't all THAT unique or innovative. It just had never been presented quite like this nor were the graphics as polished.
Also, take CS for example. Throughout all of its many versions extremely little has changed from a gameplay point of view. It remains one of the most popular games. Case in point: CS evolved over time, NS on the other hand has grown extra limbs, and had a sex change operation twice now. It is one thing to make little changes here and there to enhance the already existing gameplay, but its another thing altogether to actually change the gameplay significantly enough to make it very easily differentiable.
Let me pose a situation where very few would ever have complained about the 'epic'ness of NS... assuming that it is the deliberate intention of the devs to make NS be fast game oriented.
- 1.0 (3 hour games)
- 2.0 (2 hour games)
- 3.0 (1 hour games)
- 4.0 (.5 hour games)
And assume between these "landmark" versions there were minor patches that every so slightly decreased the length of games.
Instead of being gradually eased into new version that were markedly better but still maintaining that "at home" feeling, we were plunged through a time vortex where things looked vaguely familiar, but everything was still different enough to seem strange. In lieu of this, it is really hard for those of us "yearning for home" to really consider the changes better because no matter how good it gets, it won't ever be "home."
Of course reverting back at this stage in the game poses its own problems as well. Those who were introduced to NS in this fast-paced environment, and those who have willingly adapted to their new environments will likely consider what we have now as "home" and really could care less about going "back" because their experiences would be much the same as our own. The only way to really solve the situation is to have both 'home's at the same time. How do we do that? Make several gamemodes that use different rulesets and/or stats to induce the spirit of either form of NS. It is really the only way to hold onto both halves of our split community. Of course is this a good idea from the devs' point of views? Who knows. The introduction of Combat split the community unexpectedly as is and creating yet another devisive force may only disrupt the community further.
So then what's the real answer you may ask? Forget major development on NS and work on NS 2 sometime in the future and use the mistakes and hurdles that were experienced on the way the first time around to give wisdom to the choices made in the future.... which I think is what IS happening anyway... just never really thought about it in these terms before. (i'm sorry if i seem to be thinking as I type... that's just in my nature). So in lieu of the somewhat distant development of an NS 2 that will likely be much more grand and impressive than NS will ever be I pose that we now bury all arguments about how the devs should do this or that with what we have now and just play along.
Damn that was long, but I hope it might have shed some light on both sides of the table.
Did you even read any of the posts? Fix what was wrong, bring back the syle of gameplay. "hives = forms" = teams taking action instead of milling about waiting for res. The whole team is desperatly trying to siege again and again, or the whole alien team trying to take back a locked hive.
They fixed jp/hmg rushes, so keep that implimented. Give fades the 25 damage acid rocket of now isntead of the 75 of old. The hit boxes are fixed. That with many other changes WILL BRING BACK THE LONG, EPIC GAMES and do away with lameness.
THE GAMES WERE NOT EPIC BECAUSE WE WERE NEW
<span style='color:red'>THE GAMES WERE EPIC BECAUSE THEY LASTED MORE THAN 20 MINUTES</span>
NOW, IF A GAME LASTS LONGER THAN 20 MINUTES... 95% OF THE TIME THE WINNER HAS ALREADY BEEN DECIDED.
NS is changing. Combat has come, and MORE variations are on their way! Bring back the long NS classic games. Plenty of fast variations on their way.
Burn at the Gorge... <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Burn at the Gorge... <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They aren't being picky, all they want is to have their favorite game back.
I've read this thread over, and I'd like to throw in my 2 cents:
In version 1.04, the game was very glitchy. Back when I played it, I mostly played the aliens. The aliens suffered from extreme stuck glitches. If the server did not have an unstuck command, they had no chance. I've seen comments about how great the onos used to be...at least now you can jump over a row of offense chambers without almost certainly getting stuck. In fact, due to the unstuck glitches, I promised myself that I would never play onos again. Now that I have returned to NS, to find that the onos is finally playable. Onos is now my favorite form to attack marines with.
But a more stable game is expected with a newer version. In reality, we aren't really arguing about versions here, we're arguing about two different ways to play NS. Half of us like the "long" playing style which happens to be present in the older versions, and the other half prefers the "short" game style found in the newer versions. This isn't about glitches. No one is asking that the developers make onoses horribly glitchy again. So why then is the opposition using this as an argument against the proposal?
The like for the old is not a nostalgia factor. Just like AoF.Palin, I too am a Doom fan, and I can tell you that longing for the days of old has zero to do with people's like for that game. When doom was released, I was a little kid. I was much to young to be playing a game such a doom. I happily played with my batman action figures, ignorant of its existence. I only discovered it later, when I struggled to get it to run on windows xp. I fell in love with the game at first site, even considering the now hidious graphics, and I tried everything to get it to work. I was so happy when I finally found Doomsday that not only ran the game, but let me play it with modern graphics. As soon as I beat episode one, I got a copy of the full game. I learned to make maps and everything, and I hadn't even played it when it was new. Doom is a great game even today.
My point is that newer isn't always better, sometimes it's just different. Some people like it the new way, some like it the old way. These are people who simply prefer the old way. I wouldn't be surprised if, like my experience with Doom, a percentage of the people here who never played 1.04 would like the old style better if they had a chance to play it.
So, which style is better? It's impossible to say. This is clearly a debatable subject, so why not simply make two different styles within the game. There's already combat, which requires completly different maps and such, so surely a third playing mode that differs only slightly (at least from a programming perspective) would be easy to impliment. The style could be changed with a simple server variable and conditionals could be added for health and damages in the game. Even the hive evolve limits could be made with conditionals. This wouldn't affect the people who like the short style in the least: at worst they'd have less servers they could play on. But on the long side, a whole pile of people (including several friends of mine) would return to NS because (here's a quote) "It wouldn't be **** anymore".
If the devs aren't willing to do this, then I'm sure a third party server modifcation would do the trick.
If the next version of NS carries on like this I won't be playing for much longer (and I've been playing since 1.03 btw). So what? I hear you cry. You're only one gamer. Indeed I am but I really do think the devs should worry about alienating the older community. Just my thoughts anyway.
Rhodri.
1.04 has 3 servers up.
2.01 has 29 servers up.
Go play.
These people want to see a new 1.04. They want to enjoy all the nice graphical features and bug fixes without having to give up the reason they liked NS in the first place.
Yeah, my friend nick won't play anymore eathire. When we came back to 3.04, he lasted 6 or 7 rounds before he realised ALL rounds were like this now, and unstalled.
Whiners! Nostalgic ones at that!
1.04 came out two years ago!
What other games do you still play from two years ago?
and how many of them are free!?
GET OVER IT.
jeez.
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
Whiners! Nostalgic ones at that!
1.04 came out two years ago!
What other games do you still play from two years ago?
and how many of them are free!?
GET OVER IT.
jeez.
Mr. Cleveland, don't mind these dunderheads. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> Things from "two years ago" shouldnt be left behind just because their "old." They still had great things about them that were covered by bugs and exploits, and still need uncovering by the community and the developers!
Take a look back!
Gah!
Whiners! Nostalgic ones at that!
1.04 came out two years ago!
What other games do you still play from two years ago?
and how many of them are free!?
GET OVER IT.
jeez.
Mr. Cleveland, don't mind these dunderheads
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL 2 years ago...I still play Final Fantasy one for nes, i even enjoy the starwars arcade game from 1983...thats more than 20 years. So no, no one has to get over anything in video games.
Oh and i never played before 2.1...
tbh
i feel its lost it to
you still see/feel it every month or so
those moments...ahhh
great
I stopped playing NS pretty much after 3.0, I hvent got much experience with 4.x but from what I have had, its not good.
1.04 had fun, teamwork, struggles, and a real feeling of accomplishment that you won.
When you won, alot of the time it was an epic struggle for both teams, lines back and forth, hives taken and lost, and when you finally got to their last hive and got the bugger down, then came the feeling that you have one, a real feeling of satisfaction.
Sure, it had its bug\lame stuff, but overall it was fun and challengeing.
NS has evolveed into something different now, not what it used to be.
No longer do I feel its fun, nor challenging, more of a mindless bore.
Hell this has been said before several times but Ill say it again, bring back 1.04 style gameplay, just keep all the fixes etc.
You would discard a whole game due to one flaw?
If I offered you a Ferrari with a scratch on the door, do you still want the car?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on... That was a little more than a scratch... It would be closer to say "If I offered you a Ferrari with no engine, and no way to fix it, would you still take the car" I'm sure initially you would, but eventually it would just be taking up space in your driveway.
3.0 is imho not so much different from 2.0, its basically the same game ever since. There haven't been any groundbreaking changes that really improved the gameplay ever since, and lets face it, it is still flawed in many ways.
I just think of the ever persistent DMS.....
It bores me to death, like the ever persistent winning strats back in 1.4 did.
The most fun was IMHO right after the release of 1.4 and 2.0. These times, I really had much fun and great games. Simply because people played more experimental and diverse and tried different tactics.
For instance, I had some great sensory first games right after 2.0 release. I loved the new sense. I still love sense first. Not because its effective (it is in fact, with the right team ) but its FUN. It is even fun as marine. Because it SCARED me to hell in these first days, because skulks were so damn unpredictable.
I would kiss Flayras feet if he finally would agree to unchain the chambers, so I could play my style of game without being kicked from the server for "n00bness" because is asked if someone wanna play SC first......
Another big bugger in my book is the onos. I think the onos should be more powerful. I know about balance and all, but it is the wrong way to make the onos cheaper to compensate its weakness. The onos was the most fun in 1.4 on both sides. It was the goddamn Cow of Doom that scared the hell out of the marines.
Nowadays, they die like flies to even a singe HMG.
Its no fun and no great acomplishment to kill an onos anymore.
Thats my two cent.
I personally havent played much sins the latest update, because it somewhat got boring.
That doesn't mean I quit. I just wait for Flayras next changes.
Your damn right, not unfun, but not a big accomplishment like the screams of joy back in the old days, hehe
There are two really cool marine atmospheres in NS.
2.0 early game sense first and 1.4 last stand.
I miss that somehow. Thats why I almost exclusively play alien nowadays.
There is no real thrill in marine games anymore.
Thats why I want the chambers unchained. you would not just KNOW that they have defense as first chambers, and when you get pawned by a cloaced skulk you would still not be safe on that because next time that bugger could take stealth instead while you try to listen to footsteps.....
It was hell of a blast way back when. Great job goes out to Flayra for that.
Sucks it couldn't last
Peace out.
Xenoroyal
I've played in quite a few games that have lasted more then 20 minutes and were fun all the way through. It matters where you play and with who at times.
Lastly, I've never played NS comp, doubt I ever will, but I played tribes and tribes 2 comp,and if you want fun, action, epicness try playing a game competively more then just pubbing. You'll realize it's a lot more fun, at least from my experience.
Sure.... as long as they don't change the actual game I've been playing. To me features include the addition of grenades, enhancements to the commander interface or, hell, even unchained chambers... but not how or how fast the game is played on the whole.
<!--QuoteBegin-Deranged+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deranged)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've played in quite a few games that have lasted more then 20 minutes and were fun all the way through. It matters where you play and with who at times.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
20-60 mins is a long game, yes, but 1hr-3hrs is epic. Though I also would agree with your second point. I can actually manage to have fun even on the current version IF i'm playing with the right people (read: people who care more to have fun than to win the game)... and these games are VERY few and far between in my experience.
I say epic games should still be a possibility whether given its own gamemode or restored to the normal NS gameplay style. The Devs (or some third party given dev rights to the current iteration) SHOULD be able to pull something like that off. I'd also say we should upgrade the community's ability to have fun and its overall sportsmanship. Unfortunately the devs can't do a damned thing about that.