I'd like to see jumping disabled for 1 second after a marine gets bit. I think that would help fix the happy-rabbit marines without affecting their general mobility in pure movement situations.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marr+May 24 2004, 06:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marr @ May 24 2004, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to see jumping disabled for 1 second after a marine gets bit. I think that would help fix the happy-rabbit marines without affecting their general mobility in pure movement situations. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That sounds more like something that should be considered for an upgrade evolution. If you could stun a marine's jumping ability for a second with one hit, you'd easily be able to kill everyone you came across.
Knockback makes it easier for skulks IMHO. If they didnt have it, the skulk would stop on the marine or slide off sideways (Depending on what button they are pushing.) As anyone knows, a skulk standing still is a skulk with a death wish. As for the knockback bug, hurrah.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+May 25 2004, 04:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ May 25 2004, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Marr+May 24 2004, 06:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marr @ May 24 2004, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to see jumping disabled for 1 second after a marine gets bit. I think that would help fix the happy-rabbit marines without affecting their general mobility in pure movement situations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That sounds more like something that should be considered for an upgrade evolution. If you could stun a marine's jumping ability for a second with one hit, you'd easily be able to kill everyone you came across. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No you wouldnt, but this would prevent getting killed as a skulk if the marine jumps in cc and you cant bite him because his hitbox is over your head.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That sounds more like something that should be considered for an upgrade evolution. If you could stun a marine's jumping ability for a second with one hit, you'd easily be able to kill everyone you came across.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would I? I mean, nothing would keep a marine from jumping <i>before</i> a skulk bites him. Currently, I think the tactical reward a skulk gets from successfully scoring a bite on a marine is too small.
As a compromise, maybe a bite could lessen marines' jump height and distance, so as to avoid confusing the marine player (and prevent rabid jump button mashing from the desire to jump as soon as possible).
Sorry if I'm getting off topic. I really want to first see how things work with the Aerial Knockback Bug of Zoom fixed.
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If the "flying marine" bug is resolved in beta 5, we should try that before removing knock back altogether for a build. Besides, no-knock back has been tried before and found to be problematic.
I have a crazy-and-probably-wrong thought on how KB could successfully removed from the game:
1) It takes three skulk bites to kill a rine 2) RoF of bite is increased slightly (~25%) 3) Focus causes triple damage, but still only halves RoF
This way, it would still take longer to kill a marine, but if you got within melee range it would be easier to kill him - thanks to no knockback. Aslo, this makes Focus more of an upgrade, rather than a tradeoff.
Similar changes could be applied to LerkBite, swipe & gore.
I never notice it i mean its saved me once its killed me once OMG i dont really care.... keep it in for all i care just live with it your a deformed skulk with 1 tooth to big so you send marines flying. and he kills u so what <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> its just a game.
<!--QuoteBegin-mightymat5+May 28 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mightymat5 @ May 28 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never notice it i mean its saved me once its killed me once OMG i dont really care.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> NS Nothing. Marine Start pit. I've been knocked back INTO the pit. The only time I've found knockback to be really funny, both for the marine and alien. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
removing knock back may actually decrese alien wins.
as it is right now marine never use team work and rambo 24/7 with knock back removed marines will have to be more skilled and use teamwork. With marines acctualy useing team tactics and learning to aim instead of spray n' pray aleins will start losing more.
i mean really when was the last time marines had to UP their skill level to compincate for a nerf..... whats that...... never.... o yeah thats right the marine have been doign the same **** since beta 1.
this change will make marines THINK and LEARN and AIM and WORK AS A TEAM. I really feel sorry for the poor **** who all this time have done nothing but play kill the gorge and in turn ending the game in 3 minutes.
Id hate to see flayra make a change that causes marines to learn new tricks, because as all we kahara know that takes time and effort and id hate to make any marine player think on his feet.
im serious i really really feel sorry for the nub marines.
IMHO, knockback should be based on attacks and used for both certain alien and marine weapons.
Certain alien attacks like biting aren't going to knock someone back, but head butting them with an onos will...
For aliens: xenocide, leap, gore
For marines: shotgun, GL
Make the knockback relative to the mass of the target. A shotgun blast might slow an onos down coming straight towards you but it will send a skulk (who will most likely be a corpse) flying. Similarly, goring a light marine is like punting a football but smacking a quarter ton powered armor suit is something different...
Well, if Gore did a boatload of damage, I'd be all for super-knockbacking it. It'd indeed be the bomb to send dead marines flying everywhere. Or maybe instead of altering game balance, simply have fatal attacks get knockback - just to send some bodys flying for the hell of it.
Knockback has to go. It's simply too frustrating for the alien side and it's cauning imbalance. I'm all for waving it goodbye and dancing on it's grave.
<!--QuoteBegin-Demented+May 24 2004, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Demented @ May 24 2004, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't remember whether there was knockback in 1.0x. If there wasn't, then how exactly did the marines survive? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> bhop
All knockback sucks, period. I am our teams fade and when we have an onos clearing base, its JUST the onos clearing base, because gore sends all the other aliens flying. No knockback of ANY sort.
Overall, I'm not a real fan of knockback myself. My suggestion was based on the premise that knockback was in for good... make it more realistic and only apply to the attacks that would indeed knock a target back.
EDIT: I would like to say knockback isn't really adding imbalance. At most its a hassle for people unfamiliar with alien tactics. Aliens already are at a large advantage in 3.0, other things need to be looked at to fix the balance problem.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+May 29 2004, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ May 29 2004, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Knockback has to go. It's simply too frustrating for the alien side and it's cauning imbalance. I'm all for waving it goodbye and dancing on it's grave. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> /Offers arm to Ryo - "May I have the honour of the next dance?"
I believe that knockback needs to go. Not only that - I also believe a large proportion of the community wishes it gone also. At one stage I didnt care, until I got ADSL, played madly, became skilled and lost my fear of skulks. I could wander out of base alone with my shotty because I knew I had the upper hand.
Removal of knockback will end those days of solo confidence, will vastly improve the effectiveness of an ambush, and will force the marines to either adapt to a more teamwork orientated game plan - or die in droves.
Its already been tried, and the marines got destroyed. Knockback allows for the enemy to provide a counter attack, whats to stop aliens from setting up at every blind corner, where it is impossible for a marine to get off 9 LMG bullets (nevermind 9 accurate ones) to kill a skulk?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /Offers arm to Ryo - "May I have the honour of the next dance?"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey that would be an interesting union: You're a fastidious conservative and I'm a slovenly liberal.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+May 30 2004, 12:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ May 30 2004, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its already been tried, and the marines got destroyed. Knockback allows for the enemy to provide a counter attack, whats to stop aliens from setting up at every blind corner, where it is impossible for a marine to get off 9 LMG bullets (nevermind 9 accurate ones) to kill a skulk?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, I think I see your problem. You're talking about "<b>a</b> marine".
If <b>a</b> marine is walking around blind corners without his buddies covering him in a spaceship infested with fungoid aliens bred for the specific task of taking down invaders, perhaps he deserves what comes to him.
i think onsos should be allowed to knockback smaller things as it is its VERY fustrating to be killed just because some dipstick gorge or other things stop you from backing up
"reopening this bug due to complaints that marine players are exploiting this effect by duck-jumping while in close quarters with aliens, so that when they get hit once, the knockback shoves them so far that they can't easily be hit a second time."
xp-cagey 05-14-04 21:46
"We need to check if the marine is on the ground and affected by friction before setting the move amount that the knockback causes -- wrapping the knockback logic in a call with the desired force and direction is the way to go; once that's taken care of, we can do any player state detection and the actual movement adjustment with player state taken into account in pm_shared."
xp-cagey 05-20-04 14:01
"Resolved for beta 5.
The velocity adjustment is now cut to 1/10 normal if the player is in midair, so that the lack of friction doesn't cause them to be thrown across the entire room."
Comments
That sounds more like something that should be considered for an upgrade evolution. If you could stun a marine's jumping ability for a second with one hit, you'd easily be able to kill everyone you came across.
That sounds more like something that should be considered for an upgrade evolution. If you could stun a marine's jumping ability for a second with one hit, you'd easily be able to kill everyone you came across. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No you wouldnt, but this would prevent getting killed as a skulk if the marine jumps in cc and you cant bite him because his hitbox is over your head.
Would I? I mean, nothing would keep a marine from jumping <i>before</i> a skulk bites him. Currently, I think the tactical reward a skulk gets from successfully scoring a bite on a marine is too small.
As a compromise, maybe a bite could lessen marines' jump height and distance, so as to avoid confusing the marine player (and prevent rabid jump button mashing from the desire to jump as soon as possible).
Sorry if I'm getting off topic. I really want to first see how things work with the Aerial Knockback Bug of Zoom fixed.
1) It takes three skulk bites to kill a rine
2) RoF of bite is increased slightly (~25%)
3) Focus causes triple damage, but still only halves RoF
This way, it would still take longer to kill a marine, but if you got within melee range it would be easier to kill him - thanks to no knockback. Aslo, this makes Focus more of an upgrade, rather than a tradeoff.
Similar changes could be applied to LerkBite, swipe & gore.
NS Nothing. Marine Start pit. I've been knocked back INTO the pit. The only time I've found knockback to be really funny, both for the marine and alien. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
as it is right now marine never use team work and rambo 24/7 with knock back removed marines will have to be more skilled and use teamwork. With marines acctualy useing team tactics and learning to aim instead of spray n' pray aleins will start losing more.
i mean really when was the last time marines had to UP their skill level to compincate for a nerf..... whats that...... never.... o yeah thats right the marine have been doign the same **** since beta 1.
this change will make marines THINK and LEARN and AIM and WORK AS A TEAM. I really feel sorry for the poor **** who all this time have done nothing but play kill the gorge and in turn ending the game in 3 minutes.
Id hate to see flayra make a change that causes marines to learn new tricks, because as all we kahara know that takes time and effort and id hate to make any marine player think on his feet.
im serious i really really feel sorry for the nub marines.
You sound a bit bitter Nightcrawler :/
Certain alien attacks like biting aren't going to knock someone back, but head butting them with an onos will...
For aliens:
xenocide, leap, gore
For marines:
shotgun, GL
Make the knockback relative to the mass of the target. A shotgun blast might slow an onos down coming straight towards you but it will send a skulk (who will most likely be a corpse) flying. Similarly, goring a light marine is like punting a football but smacking a quarter ton powered armor suit is something different...
Same with leap, its whole point is to get close to a marine, why should they fly away.
I really think that the hitbox bug and knockback need to be solved together, to balance out both sides.
If there wasn't, then how exactly did the marines survive? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
bhop
EDIT: I would like to say knockback isn't really adding imbalance. At most its a hassle for people unfamiliar with alien tactics. Aliens already are at a large advantage in 3.0, other things need to be looked at to fix the balance problem.
/Offers arm to Ryo - "May I have the honour of the next dance?"
I believe that knockback needs to go. Not only that - I also believe a large proportion of the community wishes it gone also. At one stage I didnt care, until I got ADSL, played madly, became skilled and lost my fear of skulks. I could wander out of base alone with my shotty because I knew I had the upper hand.
Removal of knockback will end those days of solo confidence, will vastly improve the effectiveness of an ambush, and will force the marines to either adapt to a more teamwork orientated game plan - or die in droves.
Lets try without it.
Hey that would be an interesting union: You're a fastidious conservative and I'm a slovenly liberal.
I smell a sitcom!
Ah, I think I see your problem. You're talking about "<b>a</b> marine".
If <b>a</b> marine is walking around blind corners without his buddies covering him in a spaceship infested with fungoid aliens bred for the specific task of taking down invaders, perhaps he deserves what comes to him.
though a skulk dies in less than one second to concentrated fire....
so what stops a marine from camping at every corner because theres no way a skulk can get off those 2-4 bites to kill him.
you see how the way it is now is just as unfair to the aleins as it would be to the marines if we removed knockback.
BUT they well both be at a disadvatage with it changed. N
the huge knockback "bug??" (alien melee knocking marines very far) has been removed/fixed? (for beta5)
<a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/bt/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0000004' target='_blank'>http://www.natural-selection.org/bt/bug_vi...?bug_id=0000004</a>
username: guest
password: guest
here is the direct quote from the bug notes
grepdashv
05-11-04 20:43
"reopening this bug due to complaints that marine players are exploiting this effect by duck-jumping while in close quarters with aliens, so that when they get hit once, the knockback shoves them so far that they can't easily be hit a second time."
xp-cagey
05-14-04 21:46
"We need to check if the marine is on the ground and affected by friction before setting the move amount that the knockback causes -- wrapping the knockback logic in a call with the desired force and direction is the way to go; once that's taken care of, we can do any player state detection and the actual movement adjustment with player state taken into account in pm_shared."
xp-cagey
05-20-04 14:01
"Resolved for beta 5.
The velocity adjustment is now cut to 1/10 normal if the player is in midair, so that the lack of friction doesn't cause them to be thrown across the entire room."